Don't Believe The Hype: Reconsiderations Of Barack Obama's New Birthtime P

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your analysis. A few comments below:

 

, " MuMin Bey " <mumin_bey wrote:

>

> Don't Believe The Hype: Reconsiderations Of Barack Obama's " New "

> Birthtime Part Two - Vedic Analysis

>

> 7:53 PM 05/19/2008 Mon

>

> Having laid the groundwork for my argument that the " new " birthtime

> for Barack Obama is highly suspect, even flatout false, I will now

> turn to the Vedic astrological evidence supporting my contention.

 

If the time presented to Ms. Patry is false, it's not her fault. She is well-

regarded in the community of Vedic astrologers and she called the

last two presidential elections CORRECTLY against a great deal of opposition

and hostility from other astrologers who ended up wrongly predicting a

win for John Kerry. She's an excellent, thorough and grounded vedic

astrologer. If the birth time she was given is incorrect or misrepresented,

it's as close as anyone has gotten with an " official " birth time. And

under the circumstances, should the time be correct off the birth

certificate, just about any astrologer would be obligated to use it. You're

not because you haven't seen the certificate itself, but that doesn't mean

it doesn't exist. Nevertheless, you have a right to your opinion if you

feel that the 7:11 PM birth time does not accurately describe his life and

you prefer a time of 3 AM.

 

> Here I should like to note to those unfamiliar with my writings, that

> I have, for nearly the past two years, worked intensely with a

> rectification " test " time of mine which yields a 29 Gemini Asc using

> the Tropical Zodiac. It has come through again and again with regard

> to timing measures and captures the symbolism of his life very well.

> But, because I could never be 100% certain of Obama's birthtime, I

> have resisted offering a Vedic analysis of his chart.

 

It would have been helpful to present an example of the " timing

measures " you refer to and let readers judge for themselves.

 

> Until now. Fate it would seem, has forced my hand.

 

It seems like you are turning this matter with Ms. Patry into a personal

one. She's simply passing on to the astrology community the information

she has been offered by the Obama people. Since there has been conjecture

about his time of birth, she is commanding attention in the press because

she has shown some personal initiative in the matter. She's ALREADY a

successful astrologer with a successful practice and is not " hyping "

anything; she's simply sharing the time for Obama she's been given

and the press has picked up on it.

 

> For earlier today, as I was doing a bit of research in preparation

> for these essays, I ran accross Ms. Joni Patry's (the source of

> the " new " birthtime for Obama) Vedic analysis of his chart.

 

This IS a new (no quotes needed) birthtime for Obama, for those who

are interested in trying it out. She didn't make it up unless you are

suggesting that she did for publicity reasons. Whether the time is

accurate or not is one thing, but I highly doubt that she made up

that time out of thin air. Give her some credit, and then go ahead

and offer your analysis on the time you prefer. Even if Patry didn't

agree with the time, she has offered her analysis of the 7:11 PM

time and drawn her own conclusions. Incidentally, she predicted

the two Bush presidential elections based upon Bush's navamsha

chart and she is an expert in reading them. She has given her

analysis of Bush's chart at her website. She's a fine astrologer.

 

> Of

> course, per the Sidereal Zodiac, she uses a Capricorn Asc for Obama,

> placing both Jupiter and Saturn in the 1st house, with the Sun and

> Mercury in the 7th.

 

That's right, and Obama just happens to have a degree in Political Science,

very much in keeping with a 1st house Jupiter (for a professional degree)

and Saturn in Capricorn. Saturn can also represent a lean body type.

 

I read the rest of your analysis and it has merit. Thank you. Still, the time

of birth she has presented is valuable and there are many astrologers who

will naturally give it priority over yours because it does come from a

member of the Obama campaign. The problem for astrologers is that

politicians are catching on and they may indeed be releasing incorrect

or inaccurate birth times to throw off the prognosticators. I hope the

astrology community is cautious on this election because of the

conjectures about the uncertain birth times. I would much prefer that,

rather than the astrologers focusing primarily on WHO'S going to win,

they would focus more attention on the CHARACTER of the candidates

and let that information filter out into the public. But that'll probably

never happen because there are too many astrologers who try to

make big reputations by making political predictions. The problem

is that when they are WRONG - even if ordinarily they do excellent

work with their private clients - they can end up damaging their

reputations for years. That happened during the last US presidential

election when so many astrologers predicted a Kerry win and then

fell flat on their faces. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on Obama.

 

Best wishes. - HP

 

[end.]

 

> And while she finally concludes that should Obama

> be the nominee of the Democratic Party, he will loose against

> Republican nominee Sen. John McCain - and while I agree with her that

> it is my contention that McCain is the likely winner, at least at

> this point - I most vociferously disagree with her astrological

> reasoning for Obama, on the basis that the birthtime she uses yields

> a chart that does not comport in the least with what we know about

> Obama's life.

>

> So, as I layout my case now, please let me say that a fundamental

> premise of astrology, any kind of astrology, is simply this: if the

> planets don't fit, you must aquit. Period. If the chart doesn't match

> the reality of the native, then you can be pretty certain that you

> have the wrong chart. This is the core reasoning behind Horary in the

> Western tradition, and as far as Vedic goes, with its long and strong

> reputation for getting pinpoint accuracy in predictions, the same

> thing goes.

>

> Here is the timed data, again, based on my rectification tests, for

> Barack Obama:

>

> Aug 4 1961 3AM AHST (NOTE: I had previously listed the time as 4AM

> and used daylight savings time; I have since learned that Hawaii does

> not and has not used DST for many, many years. It was NOT in effect

> at the time Obama was born. My bad.) Honolulu HI; Lahiri 7 Gem 41;

> Mrigshira, rising Naksatra.

>

> I begin.

>

> In the book Light on Life, a must-have introductory, yet

> comprehensive, text on Vedic astrology, Hart Defouw offers the chart

> of slain Prime Minister Indira Ghandi, whose birthtime still is a

> source of great debate and controversy among astrologers in India to

> this day. Defouw shows how a skillful use of the houses and graha

> yogas (planetary combinations, or formulas, not unlike midpoints

> etc.) can aid the astrologer in coming to the right conclusion in the

> rectification process. The reader is kindly asked to compare and

> contrast my analysis of Obama using a Gemini Asc and Ms. Patry's

> using a Capricorn Asc, and see for themselves.

>

> With regard to Obama, let's quickly note some very basic, yet highly

> signficant facts about his life:

>

> 1. He is bi-racial; his mother is White, his father is Black; his mom

> from Kansas, his dad from Kenya.

>

> 2. He is the author of two highly successful, bestselling books, the

> source of his wealth according to widely published reports. One of

> his books is an autobiography which at the center, are the longings

> for his father; the other takes its title from the only father figure

> he's ever known, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright's sermons.

>

> 3. He came out of nowhere to become a serious Presidential candidate,

> at this point all but certain to be the Democratic nominee.

>

> 4. He has two children, both girls; his marriage to Michelle Robinson

> Obama is stable and without scandal or incident.

>

> 5. Both his parents died at relatively young ages, and when Obama was

> young himself. His mom died when he was in his early 30s; his dad

> died while he was still a boy.

>

> 6. Both parents remarried; his mom once (two marriages), his dad at

> least four times.

>

> 7. Obama has attended among the best schools IN THE WORLD, from a

> very early age. He is the first African American ever to be on the

> Harvard Law Review.

>

> 8. A major scandal erupted over the nature of the church Obama

> attended, to which he was first forced to address in the form of

> a " race speech " in Mar 2008, only to come back to address the

> situation again a month later.

>

> OK. I think we have enough bare-bones info on Obama to begin an

> astrological examination.

>

> First, the Asc - Gemini is the perfect fit - the bi-racial identity,

> the " two faces " he seems to show the public, especially in light of

> the Rev. Wright scandal (note 9th lord Saturn in the 8th house of

> scandal! More in a sec), the book and speech writing, the education

> and even his *two* daughters, when you take into account Venus, as

> 5th lord, sits in the Gemini Asc. Its all there. Not so for Capricorn

> rising.

>

> This Asc position makes even more sense when one considers Mercury,

> the Asc Lord, is placed in the 2nd house, long known in Jyotishical

> circles as a house of classical learning. It forms a Budhaditya Yoga

> with the Sun, amplifying his innate intelligence. Mercury rules the

> 4th house of formal educational degrees; Venus, as the 5th lord of

> intelligence and bookwriting (along with the 2nd house!), again is in

> the Asc. Obama has studied at Occidental College, Columbia and

> Harvard Universities, and holds a degree in Constitutional Law.

>

> For the parents, we would want to see the 4th and 9th houses, that

> which represent the mother and father, respectively. Here we can

> easily see what the problems were. As Mercury is both Lagnesh and 4th

> lord, it is right to take the karaka, or universal significator, or

> the mother and use that planet instead of Mercury, leaving it to

> represent Obama alone (we will employ this method yet again in

> another key area of Obama's life; stay tuned). The Moon represents

> the mother in all horoscopes, and in this one we can clearly see that

> it is damaged by being placed in the 12th house, arguably the

> singleworst place to be by house for the Moon. Among other things,

> Obama's mother spent much of her life away from the land/country of

> her birth, living abroad and mainly in and around Indonesia, where

> she would meet her second husband and give birth to a second child.

> The 12 house represents foreign lands. The 12th house also represents

> sorrow, misery and suffering, even death. But the Moon's exalted!

> Shouldn't that account for something? Well, not a lot - that's

> because the Moon itself has just entered its Sign, meaning that its

> still a beat weak because it's at a junction point between two Signs;

> this is known as Rasi Sandhi. One thing that I always remind people

> of, is that an exalted planet may not be all its cracked up to be;

> one must make a careful inspection of the houses and other planets

> involved before proclaiming all the promised benefits of such a

> planet. However, we can tell that Obama was indeed very close to his

> mother, as Moon Sign Lord Venus is placed in the Asc and very close

> to the rising degree.

>

> As for father, things don't look so well either - Not only does the

> 9th lord, Saturn, sits placed in the 8th house - one of the worst

> houses for a Vedic chart - but Ketu, another first rate malefic,

> actually sits in the 9th. This is a perfect symbolism for the father,

> Barack Obama Sr., a man who had many wives (at least two of whom were

> White - note Rahu in the 7th from the 9th, i.e., the 3rd house), who

> had a drinking problem, and who eventually died in an automobile

> crash which severed his legs, and whom Obama the Younger only met

> ONCE in his entire life! ALL of the themes of the Nodes - Rahu and

> Ketu - come alive in this chart using the Gemini Asc insofar as the

> parents are concerned. Saturn is closely conjunct Jupiter; although

> Saturn is dignified, Jupiter is not, and placed in the radical 8th

> house will suggest that Obama the Elder may do things he's not too

> proud of later. Among them were his taking wives unbeknownst to his

> current ones. The 8th house has long been known as that of

> disgraceful acts. Jupiter represents one's morality and ethics. Both

> are heavily involved here in the Gemini chart option. This position

> does not bode well for the father's health and longevity, as the 8th

> house is the 12th from the 9th. Loss.

>

> If we no consider the 7th houses away from the 4th (radical 10th) and

> 9th (radical 3rd) and keep in mind what Parasara said about

> combinations for multiple spouses, it is easy to see using the Gemini

> rising chart how Obama's parents could remarry so frequently.

> Parasara says, that if the 7th lord is conjunct or aspected by a

> benefic, there will be many spouses; the same will be true if the 7th

> lord is exalted.

>

> Looking at the 7th house from the 4th, as note that Jupiter is

> aspected by the " multiple-minded " planet Mercury. For the 9th, we can

> see that the 7th lord is conjunct this same Mercury, and is now

> aspected by Jupiter to boot. Hence we see the multiple marriages.

>

> What about Obama's marriage? Surely the Gemini rising chart must give

> some clues there, right? And indeed it does - Jupiter rules the 7th

> and is aspected by Mercury, This not only joins the 1st and 7th

> houses together by rulership, but also brings in some

> added " benefits " in the form of additional yogas, namely Satkalatra

> and Bahu Stree, both of whom are highly favorable for happiness in

> marriage. Also, note Venus' aspect on the 7th house as well, and

> Venus is Darakaraka (planet of the spouse) in a man's chart.

>

> Lastly, before we move on to Dasas, let's consider Obama's meteoric

> rise to fame as a politician and serious contender for the White

> House. To be able to do something like that must indicate some

> powerful Raj Yogas, or " king making " combinations, yes? And we find

> them in this map, in this way:

>

> As mentioned many times before, Venus is the 5th lord of political

> issues, and sits closely conjunct the Geminis Asc point; this

> accounts for his huge popularity.

>

> Lagnesh Mercury gets the full aspect of Jupiter and Saturn, who both

> form a Dharma Karma Adipati Yoga, as these planets rule the 10th and

> 9th houses respectively. Jupiter is no doubt fallen, but

> Saturn " lifts " him up somewhat by himself being in his own Sign to

> act.

>

> Note how this combination - Jupiter and Saturn - become strong again

> in the Chandra Lagna, or Moon Ascendant chart, now sitting in the 9th

> from the Moon.

>

> And note how strong the Navamsa chart is, lifting the qualities of

> Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu and Ketu! That is very rare to see in

> Jyotish, a Navamsa that strong. And the exalted Nodes, sitting in the

> 1-7 house axis in this chart, guarantees that Obama will not only

> mesmerize the mass media and public at large, but that he will also

> be " the race candidate " . Indeed, he has. On all fronts.

>

> Let us now consider the Dasa scheme of some of the key events in his

> life. Obama was born at the very end of Mars Dasa, not a good sign

> for the father sticking around, as Mars lies in the 7th from 9th.

> Obama himself reports that his father left him and his mother at the

> age of two - just as Rahu Dasa was getting off the ground (beginning

> Sep 1961). Obama Sr. would divorce Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, in

> 1963. Rahu was running both its major and sub periods at this time -

> and please note again, that the 7th house from the 9th is activated,

> as both Mars and Rahu are placed there. Both Mars and Rahu represent

> severing, especially when placed in a Sign like Leo, ruled by the

> malefic Sun.

>

> Now, if we consider Obama's mother's second marriage, which ran from

> 1966 or so, till about 1980, we can clearly track the events by way

> of the Dasas operating in Obama's chart at that time. For the earlier

> period, we can see that Saturn sub period in the Dasa of Rahu was

> running. Saturn is conjunct Jupiter, who is 7th lord from the 4th

> house of mother in Obama's chart per Gemini rising. For the divorice

> from the second hubbie, we can see that Jupiter Dasa was just

> beginning. Keep in mind please, that Jupiter is not well placed in

> the Rasi, or birthchart, for Obama.

>

> Obama's father died in 1982, right in the midst of Jupiter-Saturn Dasa

> (!); Obama's mother died in Nov 1995, right after the onset of Saturn

> Dasa began. Please note that, from the 9th, Jupiter and Saturn are in

> the 12th from the 9th, aspect the 10th which is 2nd from the 9th and

> aspect the 7th lord - all Marakas. In the case of the mother, please

> note that Saturn aspects the 7th from the 4th, is conjunct the 7th

> house (from the 4th) lord, and finally aspects the 2nd house from the

> 4th as well (radical 5th).

>

> It was during the latter time, that Obama began to get interested in

> politics. In Jyotisha, there are two major planets that speak to

> political aims; one is the Sun, and the other is Saturn. And in

> Obama's case, both impact strongly on his Lagnesh Mercury.

>

> Obama won his US Senate seat in the largest margin ever in Illinois

> state history, some 70% of the vote. Saturn-Venus was running at the

> time; please note how both these planets are friends and rule trinal

> houses for the Senator, per the Gemini rising chart.

>

> It would be under this same combination that Obama would give his

> riveting address at the Democratic Convention at Boston in 2004. This

> was when he reached national prominence.

>

> He then decided to run for the Presidency with the Moon running its

> sub period in early 2007; in Mar 2008, the Rev. Wright scandal broke,

> as Mars sub period in Saturn Dasa began. Please note two very

> important things here - Mars sits 8 houses away from Saturn, Bhavat

> Bhavam; and that when two natural malefics run their major and minor

> periods at the same time, lookout! We can also add that Mars is an

> enemy to Mercury. Saturn rules the 9th house of preachers, churches

> and father figures. That Obama would be forced to cut all ties with

> Wright only a month after his famed " race speech " is again another

> testimony of both the Dasa scheme at work, and as well, the Gemini

> rising chart.

>

> And that brings us to the present time, with both these planets still

> very much in operation, to last until the Spring of 2009. With both

> Mars and Saturn aspecting Obama's Piscean 10th house, and with the

> 10th lord debilitated in the 8th house, it is hard to see eventual

> victory for him; in this I would agree with Ms. Patry. But the point

> remains, that until we can actually see a birth record that confirms

> that which she told the world the other night at Denver, I then

> maintain that the evidence I have offered in this essay is every bit

> as valid as anything she or anyone else has said. As I've said

> earlier, if the Planets don't fit, you must aquit!

>

> Comment and reply, invited.

>

> Salaam

> Mu

>