Guest guest Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Dear Prad, In Ancient times, as even today, the ascendant was derived on the basis of : Longitude : It is used to work out the Local Mean Time. In old days time was measured in local mean time only. Therefore there was no problem of the longitude as you might imagine. Even today the ascendant is worked out on the local mean time. You do not know since the computer works out the local mean time for you. Latitude : Any one can find out the Latitude of a place without having to look into an Atlas. The rule is simple. The angle at which the polar star [ dhruv tara ] is at that place , that is the latitude of that place. Suppose the polar star is at 28d39’ at Delhi, then this becomes the latitude of delhi. Sure the astrologers or the Panchangkars of those days knew how to measure an angle. Once you know the latitude, it was converted into palabha [ measured in anguls ] and at the given palabha through the Lankodaya maan of the Rasi the ascendant was worked out. Most of us who were introduced to astrology some 30 years ago had to work out ascendants manually using these techniques. Ayanansh : The most commonly used ayanansh these days is known as Lahiri ayanansh. It was discovered by a maharastrian panchangkar named Ketkar. This ayanansh is technically known as Chitra Paksheeya Ketki ayanansh ;aligned to star Chitra. Shri Ketkar worked out the ayanansh on the basis of the Surya Siddhanta and the Grah Laghava, the two major books written centuries ago on the mathematics of astrology. Any one can work out the Ayanansh through the formula given in these two books. There is no controversy on the ayanansh. People use different ayanansh according to their own choice and experience. For example I feel comfortable using Lahiri ayanansh, some others use Raman ayanansh, a few still, develop their own ayanansh based on their experience. Controvery arises when some forces you to use a particular ayanansh. But in the community of astrologers no one forces the other to follow his system or his path. Each unto himself. Sincerely, RP Singh , " Prad " <psd1955 wrote: > > About ayanamsa to be used....request members to kindly clarify this > doubt in my mind.... > why this confusion in jyotish still....because using different > ayanamsas sometimes changes the houses and navamsas and this should > clearly decide which one is correct. > It would be interesting to know the experiences of members in this > regard. > Also with all the modern technology available ..... why this problem > of fixing the date when the two zodiacs coincided!! and thereby the > ayanamsa value. > > Also how were horoscopes cast in the ancient times till the recent > past. They would not have known about latitudes and longitudes or > about the accurate value of ayanamsas for that matter. > I would greatly appreciate the thoughts of members of this group on > this subject. > Thank you > Prad > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Very good post. It is good to read from someone who has practical experience :-) One question many ask and indeed it is a bit intriguing, if not perplexing. Different people using different ayanamshas (say within 2- 3 degrees of range) get very good results (no one gets perfect results!). One wonders if this represents the tolerance or 'play' in the predictive system or something more subtle and even mysterious is going on when we apply astrological rules? Sadly, this kind of discussion is taken personally and then no reasonable discussion can take place. Hence I approach individuals somewhat gingerly. This becomes even more intriguing for someone who has experimented with a variety of ayanamshas and found that they all work well with some parameters adjusted (some work better with 360 day year others with other durations) etc. RR , " rpsingh2710 " <rpsingh2710 wrote: > > > Dear Prad, > > > In Ancient times, as even today, the ascendant was derived on the > basis of : > > Longitude : It is used to work out the Local Mean Time. In old days > time was measured in local mean time only. Therefore there was no > problem of the longitude as you might imagine. Even today the > ascendant is worked out on the local mean time. You do not know since > the computer works out the local mean time for you. > > Latitude : Any one can find out the Latitude of a place without > having to look into an Atlas. The rule is simple. The angle at which > the polar star [ dhruv tara ] is at that place , that is the latitude > of that place. Suppose the polar star is at 28d39’ at Delhi, then > this becomes the latitude of delhi. Sure the astrologers or the > Panchangkars of those days knew how to measure an angle. > Once you know the latitude, it was converted into palabha [ measured > in anguls ] and at the given palabha through the Lankodaya maan of > the Rasi the ascendant was worked out. > > Most of us who were introduced to astrology some 30 years ago had to > work out ascendants manually using these techniques. > > Ayanansh : The most commonly used ayanansh these days is known as > Lahiri ayanansh. It was discovered by a maharastrian panchangkar > named Ketkar. This ayanansh is technically known as Chitra Paksheeya > Ketki ayanansh ;aligned to star Chitra. > Shri Ketkar worked out the ayanansh on the basis of the Surya > Siddhanta and the Grah Laghava, the two major books written centuries > ago on the mathematics of astrology. > > Any one can work out the Ayanansh through the formula given in these > two books. > > There is no controversy on the ayanansh. People use different > ayanansh according to their own choice and experience. For example I > feel comfortable using Lahiri ayanansh, some others use Raman > ayanansh, a few still, develop their own ayanansh based on their > experience. > Controvery arises when some forces you to use a particular ayanansh. > But in the community of astrologers no one forces the other to follow > his system or his path. Each unto himself. > > Sincerely, > > RP Singh > > > > > > > > > > > , " Prad " <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > About ayanamsa to be used....request members to kindly clarify this > > doubt in my mind.... > > why this confusion in jyotish still....because using different > > ayanamsas sometimes changes the houses and navamsas and this should > > clearly decide which one is correct. > > It would be interesting to know the experiences of members in this > > regard. > > Also with all the modern technology available ..... why this problem > > of fixing the date when the two zodiacs coincided!! and thereby the > > ayanamsa value. > > > > Also how were horoscopes cast in the ancient times till the recent > > past. They would not have known about latitudes and longitudes or > > about the accurate value of ayanamsas for that matter. > > I would greatly appreciate the thoughts of members of this group on > > this subject. > > Thank you > > Prad > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Dear Rohiniranjan ji, I think it is both a 'tolerance or 'play' in the predictive system' and also to some extent what you call " some thing more subtle and mysterious " . For example with me it is the Lahiri ayanansh with 360 days nakshastra varsh which works well. The predictions come to be true within the pratyantar dasha. The 'tolerance' level for predictions is so highy that most of us avoid fine tuning needed for the ayanansh. Normally it is assumed that the prediction can go off by a couple of weeks. Yes if it goes off by a month or more then one does get alarmed. In that case the first suspect is the ayanansh. Initially when I was a student and learning astrology, I used to get greatly disturbed if things went off by a few weeks. As I grew old I realised that I shouldn't try be Brahma ji, and proximation is good enough for me. Regards, RP Singh , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > Very good post. It is good to read from someone who has practical > experience :-) > > One question many ask and indeed it is a bit intriguing, if not > perplexing. Different people using different ayanamshas (say within 2- > 3 degrees of range) get very good results (no one gets perfect > results!). One wonders if this represents the tolerance or 'play' in > the predictive system or something more subtle and even mysterious is > going on when we apply astrological rules? Sadly, this kind of > discussion is taken personally and then no reasonable discussion can > take place. Hence I approach individuals somewhat gingerly. This > becomes even more intriguing for someone who has experimented with a > variety of ayanamshas and found that they all work well with some > parameters adjusted (some work better with 360 day year others with > other durations) etc. > > RR > > > , " rpsingh2710 " > <rpsingh2710@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Prad, > > > > > > In Ancient times, as even today, the ascendant was derived on the > > basis of : > > > > Longitude : It is used to work out the Local Mean Time. In old days > > time was measured in local mean time only. Therefore there was no > > problem of the longitude as you might imagine. Even today the > > ascendant is worked out on the local mean time. You do not know > since > > the computer works out the local mean time for you. > > > > Latitude : Any one can find out the Latitude of a place without > > having to look into an Atlas. The rule is simple. The angle at > which > > the polar star [ dhruv tara ] is at that place , that is the > latitude > > of that place. Suppose the polar star is at 28d39’ at Delhi, then > > this becomes the latitude of delhi. Sure the astrologers or the > > Panchangkars of those days knew how to measure an angle. > > Once you know the latitude, it was converted into palabha [ > measured > > in anguls ] and at the given palabha through the Lankodaya maan of > > the Rasi the ascendant was worked out. > > > > Most of us who were introduced to astrology some 30 years ago had > to > > work out ascendants manually using these techniques. > > > > Ayanansh : The most commonly used ayanansh these days is known as > > Lahiri ayanansh. It was discovered by a maharastrian panchangkar > > named Ketkar. This ayanansh is technically known as Chitra > Paksheeya > > Ketki ayanansh ;aligned to star Chitra. > > Shri Ketkar worked out the ayanansh on the basis of the Surya > > Siddhanta and the Grah Laghava, the two major books written > centuries > > ago on the mathematics of astrology. > > > > Any one can work out the Ayanansh through the formula given in > these > > two books. > > > > There is no controversy on the ayanansh. People use different > > ayanansh according to their own choice and experience. For example > I > > feel comfortable using Lahiri ayanansh, some others use Raman > > ayanansh, a few still, develop their own ayanansh based on their > > experience. > > Controvery arises when some forces you to use a particular > ayanansh. > > But in the community of astrologers no one forces the other to > follow > > his system or his path. Each unto himself. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > RP Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Prad " <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > > > About ayanamsa to be used....request members to kindly clarify > this > > > doubt in my mind.... > > > why this confusion in jyotish still....because using different > > > ayanamsas sometimes changes the houses and navamsas and this > should > > > clearly decide which one is correct. > > > It would be interesting to know the experiences of members in this > > > regard. > > > Also with all the modern technology available ..... why this > problem > > > of fixing the date when the two zodiacs coincided!! and thereby > the > > > ayanamsa value. > > > > > > Also how were horoscopes cast in the ancient times till the recent > > > past. They would not have known about latitudes and longitudes or > > > about the accurate value of ayanamsas for that matter. > > > I would greatly appreciate the thoughts of members of this group > on > > > this subject. > > > Thank you > > > Prad > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2007 Report Share Posted December 22, 2007 Likewise! Thanks for your response. RR , " rpsingh2710 " <rpsingh2710 wrote: > > Dear Rohiniranjan ji, > > I think it is both a 'tolerance or 'play' in the predictive system' > > and also to some extent what you call " some thing more subtle and > mysterious " . > > For example with me it is the Lahiri ayanansh with 360 days > nakshastra varsh which works well. The predictions come to be true > within the pratyantar dasha. > > The 'tolerance' level for predictions is so highy that most of us > avoid fine tuning needed for the ayanansh. Normally it is assumed > that the prediction can go off by a couple of weeks. Yes if it goes > off by a month or more then one does get alarmed. In that case the > first suspect is the ayanansh. > > Initially when I was a student and learning astrology, I used to get > greatly disturbed if things went off by a few weeks. As I grew old I > realised that I shouldn't try be Brahma ji, and proximation is good > enough for me. > > Regards, > > RP Singh > > , " Rohiniranjan " > <rohini_ranjan@> wrote: > > > > Very good post. It is good to read from someone who has practical > > experience :-) > > > > One question many ask and indeed it is a bit intriguing, if not > > perplexing. Different people using different ayanamshas (say within > 2- > > 3 degrees of range) get very good results (no one gets perfect > > results!). One wonders if this represents the tolerance or 'play' > in > > the predictive system or something more subtle and even mysterious > is > > going on when we apply astrological rules? Sadly, this kind of > > discussion is taken personally and then no reasonable discussion > can > > take place. Hence I approach individuals somewhat gingerly. This > > becomes even more intriguing for someone who has experimented with > a > > variety of ayanamshas and found that they all work well with some > > parameters adjusted (some work better with 360 day year others with > > other durations) etc. > > > > RR > > > > > > , " rpsingh2710 " > > <rpsingh2710@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Prad, > > > > > > > > > In Ancient times, as even today, the ascendant was derived on the > > > basis of : > > > > > > Longitude : It is used to work out the Local Mean Time. In old > days > > > time was measured in local mean time only. Therefore there was no > > > problem of the longitude as you might imagine. Even today the > > > ascendant is worked out on the local mean time. You do not know > > since > > > the computer works out the local mean time for you. > > > > > > Latitude : Any one can find out the Latitude of a place without > > > having to look into an Atlas. The rule is simple. The angle at > > which > > > the polar star [ dhruv tara ] is at that place , that is the > > latitude > > > of that place. Suppose the polar star is at 28d39’ at Delhi, then > > > this becomes the latitude of delhi. Sure the astrologers or the > > > Panchangkars of those days knew how to measure an angle. > > > Once you know the latitude, it was converted into palabha [ > > measured > > > in anguls ] and at the given palabha through the Lankodaya maan > of > > > the Rasi the ascendant was worked out. > > > > > > Most of us who were introduced to astrology some 30 years ago had > > to > > > work out ascendants manually using these techniques. > > > > > > Ayanansh : The most commonly used ayanansh these days is known > as > > > Lahiri ayanansh. It was discovered by a maharastrian panchangkar > > > named Ketkar. This ayanansh is technically known as Chitra > > Paksheeya > > > Ketki ayanansh ;aligned to star Chitra. > > > Shri Ketkar worked out the ayanansh on the basis of the Surya > > > Siddhanta and the Grah Laghava, the two major books written > > centuries > > > ago on the mathematics of astrology. > > > > > > Any one can work out the Ayanansh through the formula given in > > these > > > two books. > > > > > > There is no controversy on the ayanansh. People use different > > > ayanansh according to their own choice and experience. For > example > > I > > > feel comfortable using Lahiri ayanansh, some others use Raman > > > ayanansh, a few still, develop their own ayanansh based on their > > > experience. > > > Controvery arises when some forces you to use a particular > > ayanansh. > > > But in the community of astrologers no one forces the other to > > follow > > > his system or his path. Each unto himself. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > RP Singh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Prad " <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > > > > > About ayanamsa to be used....request members to kindly clarify > > this > > > > doubt in my mind.... > > > > why this confusion in jyotish still....because using different > > > > ayanamsas sometimes changes the houses and navamsas and this > > should > > > > clearly decide which one is correct. > > > > It would be interesting to know the experiences of members in > this > > > > regard. > > > > Also with all the modern technology available ..... why this > > problem > > > > of fixing the date when the two zodiacs coincided!! and thereby > > the > > > > ayanamsa value. > > > > > > > > Also how were horoscopes cast in the ancient times till the > recent > > > > past. They would not have known about latitudes and longitudes > or > > > > about the accurate value of ayanamsas for that matter. > > > > I would greatly appreciate the thoughts of members of this > group > > on > > > > this subject. > > > > Thank you > > > > Prad > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Dear Prad, The confusion is in the mind of the onlookers, sceptics and critics who are not practicing astrology and passing judgment from the sidelines, so to speak. For the jyotishis who are actually conducting jyotish, there is no confusion. Their choice is governed by personal experience and practical experience that works, for that matter. Interestingly, after responding to Mr. Singh earlier, I am now for the first time reading your posting that started this thread. As you move towards Mr. Singh's and my exchange any confusion in your mind should get resolved. Astrology is a biological craft and unlike machine or bridgebuilding which require exact measures and precise cuts, biological crafts have a larger play in the way they operate. Ask any biologist or doctor and you will get a sense of this flexibility and plasticity that is not hung upon a razor sharp paradigm or parameter. Astounding and mind-expanding but certainly not confusing! Happy Holidays, Rohiniranjan , " Prad " <psd1955 wrote: > > About ayanamsa to be used....request members to kindly clarify this > doubt in my mind.... > why this confusion in jyotish still....because using different > ayanamsas sometimes changes the houses and navamsas and this should > clearly decide which one is correct. > It would be interesting to know the experiences of members in this > regard. > Also with all the modern technology available ..... why this problem > of fixing the date when the two zodiacs coincided!! and thereby the > ayanamsa value. > > Also how were horoscopes cast in the ancient times till the recent > past. They would not have known about latitudes and longitudes or > about the accurate value of ayanamsas for that matter. > I would greatly appreciate the thoughts of members of this group on > this subject. > Thank you > Prad > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.