Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear fellow sufferer, Never or at least oftentimes -- neither have I claimed to be a pandit, nor one who has risen above all suffering! In fact I suffer about the current state of jyotish and astrology and gripe often about that, privately and publicly! Astrology is something that in my experience has been about inclusive, persecuted that it has been from time immemorial! Although I do not have all answers here or elsewhere, I have had problem with performing PUJA in temples that are not inclusive! If in a temple of worship, Shiva is not accepted or Vishnu or Brahma or one of the Divine Sisters or Mother HERSELF, then it is not a temple for me, no matter how divine the clubhouse may be! I have some severe criticisms aimed at the SYSTEM's approach but I can only voice them after the SYSTEM has a voice on this forum and the proponents allowed to voice their viewpoint! And any others too! YOU see, we all are sinners, traditionalists or others! I am first and foremost against selective seclusion! Like has been the case for Systems Approach on this forum, which I have tried and found similar to KP approach! Both are equally bad or good depending on which ladder you are climbing! If Democracy still exists in the realm of jyotish/astrology, just for fairness and equality, ALL systems and approaches must be allowed on this forum! Until that happens, Tanveer, the Trick-All-gnas will prevail! Enough said!! RR , suresh sivan <sureshshiv1960 wrote: > > Dear Panditji > > I am facing lot of problems and in a crucial moment of my life. > > I have huge debts and that too recently I have started doing business apart from my job to clear out the debts. I started a small business to square up the debts but that also not giving peace of mind means not having any affordable returns > > my date of birth is 14-06-1960 > Time of Birth 15.10 hrs > place of birth - Chittur Palghat, Kerala > > Kindly advise my suitable remedies and if any yantra has to be placed in my present living place or in the shop also kindly advise me > > with expections > > Suresh > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Shri Rohini ji, Your observation about the approach is forth right and there should be scope for fair and honest debate on all aspects of jyotish.So i personally what you have mentioned as: " just for airness and equality, ALL systems and approaches must be allowed on this forum! " is most desirable.This is how we can anlyse and understand the scope Vedic and Astrology to attempt for possible redressal if any canbe offered. In the process we do respect individual opinions and the puritanical of ancient sastras and their evolution as the times have been changing and getting into technology orientation.may be we need to drill and more as the subject itself is very vast and complex.It is not just a mathematical formulas and there are no quick answers for the problems which are basically taking roots for one's own past and actions there of. Reality is problems being experienced and the vexation ther of as no immediate redressal is not forthcoming.we sitting on intenet and attending to few queries are also definetely approach in piecemeal manner and definetely this is not the palce where holistic approach can be adopted.when sevral views are expreessed in different directions we find the spectrum as desperation to ecstasy and some viewing as very problematic understanding.Let's not forget the data is basically as putforth and emnating what ever has been expressed and sought for.In the process we are relying on the basic science and knowledge,whcih certainly needs a forum to deliberate and find a possible and synchronised approach than to inhibit and react to the views expressed.The democracy is inherent but has some reagrd and respect for every one that speaks with sblimity. regards vrkrishnan Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: Dear fellow sufferer, Never or at least oftentimes -- neither have I claimed to be a pandit, nor one who has risen above all suffering! In fact I suffer about the current state of jyotish and astrology and gripe often about that, privately and publicly! Astrology is something that in my experience has been about inclusive, persecuted that it has been from time immemorial! Although I do not have all answers here or elsewhere, I have had problem with performing PUJA in temples that are not inclusive! If in a temple of worship, Shiva is not accepted or Vishnu or Brahma or one of the Divine Sisters or Mother HERSELF, then it is not a temple for me, no matter how divine the clubhouse may be! I have some severe criticisms aimed at the SYSTEM's approach but I can only voice them after the SYSTEM has a voice on this forum and the proponents allowed to voice their viewpoint! And any others too! YOU see, we all are sinners, traditionalists or others! I am first and foremost against selective seclusion! Like has been the case for Systems Approach on this forum, which I have tried and found similar to KP approach! Both are equally bad or good depending on which ladder you are climbing! If Democracy still exists in the realm of jyotish/astrology, just for fairness and equality, ALL systems and approaches must be allowed on this forum! Until that happens, Tanveer, the Trick-All-gnas will prevail! Enough said!! RR , suresh sivan <sureshshiv1960 wrote: > > Dear Panditji > > I am facing lot of problems and in a crucial moment of my life. > > I have huge debts and that too recently I have started doing business apart from my job to clear out the debts. I started a small business to square up the debts but that also not giving peace of mind means not having any affordable returns > > my date of birth is 14-06-1960 > Time of Birth 15.10 hrs > place of birth - Chittur Palghat, Kerala > > Kindly advise my suitable remedies and if any yantra has to be placed in my present living place or in the shop also kindly advise me > > with expections > > Suresh > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Krishnan ji, We go back a long time on this forum and as I recall, your postings appeared very close to my perception (that I realistically admitted to being as an " ant's view <in contrast to a bird's eye view> and in no false sense of modesty as some have perceived and reported. As dear Tanveer, without whose initiative and welcome and love, we all would not have been here talking to each other and creating a huge archive of jyotish and jyotishis which I am sure will remain preserved for some time to come and perhaps some of the posts and postings and threads will be judged by future jyotishis in making as being useful! This is all wonderful but I am truly saddned by the fact that this archive will not have the Systems approach which despite the way it may have been promoted or promulgated by some vocal and somewhat zealous students, was not ever propagated on the web and jyotish mailing list by its founder Choudhryji. I have interacted with him directly on Ben Collins' list in early and mid nineties as well as with KN Raoji and PVR Narasimha Rao and Sanjay Rath ji and I can tell you that those were far gentler times for Jyotish and wiser! I think personally that it would be wise of sincere jyotish students to study for a few years, at least the first few (say ten to pick a number?) just with an open mind not just Parashara, Varahamihira, Satyacharyaa, Kalidasa, Mukunda Vallabha and other ancient and more recent texts and also the Ojhas, Sastry, Raman and Raos, and Krishnamurthy and Choudhry and others. Before jumping into learning from the Internet school where invariably very strong emotions and anecdotal *evidence* (known in some scientific/statistical circles as BIAS!) simply floats around! And it is not superficial but some of it has very deep-seated roots. Not all roots are good, because some of those hold us down, unnecessarily -- and often to our personal detriment! While I may not be an automatic devotee of Kobiguru Robindronath (some may be surprised to read, me being raised in a bengalee family many of which having been very influenced by the Great Poet Tagore and also me almost by serendipity of migration having come into contact with not just some individuals who were educated in Bishwabharati, but one of those Didis actually got married to a close relative in the direct blood line of the Great Poet. I am not trying to toss 'names' etc but just sharing my personal experience to describe how while *conditioned* in a certain way and from upbringing to question, if not reject Robee Thakur (as Robindronathji is referred to by Bengawelees -- I have been touched by him in so many ways! PRIMARILY and getting back to this thread, contextually, by his UNIQUE vision of creating a University of learning of culture and literature and art -- that comes from, and sustains the human soul, the very spirit of a culture or perhaps HUMAN CULTURE! I view Jyotish not as a technical discipline or pure creative artform or an imaginative pot-pourri of mish-mash as SOME have always tried to turn it into, but as a descriptor of the culture known as HUMAN EXPERIENCE! The HUMAN EXPERIENCE they say is about 100000 years old, but all we know of it really is the last thousand years or three! And yet it seems that most of the ACTION happened in the last few hundred years! I think that is an anomaly of our perception. Jyotish may be the infrared telescope that allows us to see a bit beyond and farther than our normal vision would make us believe or define the visible reality! Perhaps a crude example but if you *get* it what I am trying to share then you will perhaps begin to view jyotish as not just some quickie technique which will let you figure out yourself or with the aid of a TAG (Trick-All-Gyani) what there is to know in this lifetime (visible horizon) -- but what lies beyond where the world as you know curves down and not only dips deeper but potentially completes the CIRCLE of EXISTENCE! I know -- long posting, but hopefully the message is in there embedded for someone to pay attention to. If not, I am sure you would read it, and I for sure will! As you all know, I am easy to please...! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Rohini ji, > Your observation about the approach is forth right and there should be scope for fair and honest debate on all aspects of jyotish.So i personally what you have mentioned as: > > " just for airness and equality, ALL systems and approaches must be allowed on > this forum! " > is most desirable.This is how we can anlyse and understand the scope Vedic and Astrology to attempt for possible redressal if any canbe offered. > In the process we do respect individual opinions and the puritanical of ancient sastras and their evolution as the times have been changing and getting into technology orientation.may be we need to drill and more as the subject itself is very vast and complex.It is not just a mathematical formulas and there are no quick answers for the problems which are basically taking roots for one's own past and actions there of. > Reality is problems being experienced and the vexation ther of as no immediate redressal is not forthcoming.we sitting on intenet and attending to few queries are also definetely approach in piecemeal manner and definetely this is not the palce where holistic approach can be adopted.when sevral views are expreessed in different directions we find the spectrum as desperation to ecstasy and some viewing as very problematic understanding.Let's not forget the data is basically as putforth and emnating what ever has been expressed and sought for.In the process we are relying on the basic science and knowledge,whcih certainly needs a forum to deliberate and find a possible and synchronised approach than to inhibit and react to the views expressed.The democracy is inherent but has some reagrd and respect for every one that speaks with sblimity. > regards > vrkrishnan > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > Dear fellow sufferer, > > Never or at least oftentimes -- neither have I claimed to be a > pandit, nor one who has risen above all suffering! In fact I suffer > about the current state of jyotish and astrology and gripe often > about that, privately and publicly! > > Astrology is something that in my experience has been about > inclusive, persecuted that it has been from time immemorial! Although > I do not have all answers here or elsewhere, I have had problem with > performing PUJA in temples that are not inclusive! If in a temple of > worship, Shiva is not accepted or Vishnu or Brahma or one of the > Divine Sisters or Mother HERSELF, then it is not a temple for me, no > matter how divine the clubhouse may be! > > I have some severe criticisms aimed at the SYSTEM's approach but I > can only voice them after the SYSTEM has a voice on this forum and > the proponents allowed to voice their viewpoint! > > And any others too! YOU see, we all are sinners, traditionalists or > others! I am first and foremost against selective seclusion! Like has > been the case for Systems Approach on this forum, which I have tried > and found similar to KP approach! Both are equally bad or good > depending on which ladder you are climbing! > > If Democracy still exists in the realm of jyotish/astrology, just for > fairness and equality, ALL systems and approaches must be allowed on > this forum! > > Until that happens, Tanveer, the Trick-All-gnas will prevail! > > Enough said!! > > RR > > , suresh sivan > <sureshshiv1960@> wrote: > > > > Dear Panditji > > > > I am facing lot of problems and in a crucial moment of my life. > > > > I have huge debts and that too recently I have started doing > business apart from my job to clear out the debts. I started a small > business to square up the debts but that also not giving peace of > mind means not having any affordable returns > > > > my date of birth is 14-06-1960 > > Time of Birth 15.10 hrs > > place of birth - Chittur Palghat, Kerala > > > > Kindly advise my suitable remedies and if any yantra has to be > placed in my present living place or in the shop also kindly advise me > > > > with expections > > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > > > > > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Rohini Ranjan ji, Respectful Greetings ! I am a salient member of this group and always admired your messages / mails / advises. This message is par excellence and extremely great ( Infact I have no words .. to explain ) . Please keep writing . Respectful Regards, LN Kumar --- Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > Dear Krishnan ji, > > We go back a long time on this forum and as I > recall, your postings > appeared very close to my perception (that I > realistically admitted > to being as an " ant's view <in contrast to a bird's > eye view> and in > no false sense of modesty as some have perceived and > reported. > > As dear Tanveer, without whose initiative and > welcome and love, we > all would not have been here talking to each other > and creating a > huge archive of jyotish and jyotishis which I am > sure will remain > preserved for some time to come and perhaps some of > the posts and > postings and threads will be judged by future > jyotishis in making as > being useful! This is all wonderful but I am truly > saddned by the > fact that this archive will not have the Systems > approach which > despite the way it may have been promoted or > promulgated by some > vocal and somewhat zealous students, was not ever > propagated on the > web and jyotish mailing list by its founder > Choudhryji. I have > interacted with him directly on Ben Collins' list in > early and mid > nineties as well as with KN Raoji and PVR Narasimha > Rao and Sanjay > Rath ji and I can tell you that those were far > gentler times for > Jyotish and wiser! > > I think personally that it would be wise of sincere > jyotish students > to study for a few years, at least the first few > (say ten to pick a > number?) just with an open mind not just Parashara, > Varahamihira, > Satyacharyaa, Kalidasa, Mukunda Vallabha and other > ancient and more > recent texts and also the Ojhas, Sastry, Raman and > Raos, and > Krishnamurthy and Choudhry and others. Before > jumping into learning > from the Internet school where invariably very > strong emotions and > anecdotal *evidence* (known in some > scientific/statistical circles as > BIAS!) simply floats around! And it is not > superficial but some of it > has very deep-seated roots. Not all roots are good, > because some of > those hold us down, unnecessarily -- and often to > our personal > detriment! > > While I may not be an automatic devotee of Kobiguru > Robindronath > (some may be surprised to read, me being raised in a > bengalee family > many of which having been very influenced by the > Great Poet Tagore > and also me almost by serendipity of migration > having come into > contact with not just some individuals who were > educated in > Bishwabharati, but one of those Didis actually got > married to a close > relative in the direct blood line of the Great Poet. > I am not trying > to toss 'names' etc but just sharing my personal > experience to > describe how while *conditioned* in a certain way > and from upbringing > to question, if not reject Robee Thakur (as > Robindronathji is > referred to by Bengawelees -- I have been touched by > him in so many > ways! PRIMARILY and getting back to this thread, > contextually, by his > UNIQUE vision of creating a University of learning > of culture and > literature and art -- that comes from, and sustains > the human soul, > the very spirit of a culture or perhaps HUMAN > CULTURE! > > I view Jyotish not as a technical discipline or pure > creative artform > or an imaginative pot-pourri of mish-mash as SOME > have always tried > to turn it into, but as a descriptor of the culture > known as HUMAN > EXPERIENCE! > > The HUMAN EXPERIENCE they say is about 100000 years > old, but all we > know of it really is the last thousand years or > three! And yet it > seems that most of the ACTION happened in the last > few hundred years! > I think that is an anomaly of our perception. > > Jyotish may be the infrared telescope that allows us > to see a bit > beyond and farther than our normal vision would make > us believe or > define the visible reality! Perhaps a crude example > but if you *get* > it what I am trying to share then you will perhaps > begin to view > jyotish as not just some quickie technique which > will let you figure > out yourself or with the aid of a TAG > (Trick-All-Gyani) what there is > to know in this lifetime (visible horizon) -- but > what lies beyond > where the world as you know curves down and not only > dips deeper but > potentially completes the CIRCLE of EXISTENCE! > > I know -- long posting, but hopefully the message is > in there > embedded for someone to pay attention to. If not, I > am sure you would > read it, and I for sure will! > > As you all know, I am easy to please...! > > RR > > > , vattem > krishnan > <bursar_99 wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Rohini ji, > > Your observation about the approach is forth > right and there > should be scope for fair and honest debate on all > aspects of > jyotish.So i personally what you have mentioned as: > > > > " just for airness and equality, ALL systems and > approaches must > be allowed on > > this forum! " > > is most desirable.This is how we can anlyse and > understand the > scope Vedic and Astrology to attempt for possible > redressal if any > canbe offered. > > In the process we do respect individual opinions > and the > puritanical of ancient sastras and their evolution > as the times have > been changing and getting into technology > orientation.may be we need > to drill and more as the subject itself is very vast > and complex.It > is not just a mathematical formulas and there are no > quick answers > for the problems which are basically taking roots > for one's own past > and actions there of. > > Reality is problems being experienced and the > vexation ther of as > no immediate redressal is not forthcoming.we sitting > on intenet and > attending to few queries are also definetely > approach in piecemeal > manner and definetely this is not the palce where > holistic approach > can be adopted.when sevral views are expreessed in > different > directions we find the spectrum as desperation to > ecstasy and some > viewing as very problematic understanding.Let's not > forget the data > is basically as putforth and emnating what ever has > been expressed > and sought for.In the process we are relying on the > basic science and > knowledge,whcih certainly needs a forum to > deliberate and find a > possible and synchronised approach than to inhibit > and react to the > views expressed.The democracy is inherent but has > some reagrd and > respect for every one that speaks with sblimity. > > regards > > vrkrishnan > > > > > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games. http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2007 Report Share Posted September 29, 2007 Dear Narender Kumar ji, I thank you because I know/feel/sense that your heart is in the right place. I am not trying to make a wise-crack at what was obviously a freudian slip or a typo on your part! But truly seeing a confirmation of what I have always perceived and believed in: You see, to me the thousands of Silent members have always been SALIENT, particularly when they are motivated to speak up! Keep writing ... Affectionately, Rohiniranjan , narender kumar <lokray wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan ji, > Respectful Greetings ! > I am a salient member of this group and always admired > your messages / mails / advises. > > This message is par excellence and extremely great ( > Infact I have no words .. to explain ) . > > Please keep writing . > > Respectful Regards, > > LN Kumar > > --- Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan wrote: > > > Dear Krishnan ji, > > > > We go back a long time on this forum and as I > > recall, your postings > > appeared very close to my perception (that I > > realistically admitted > > to being as an " ant's view <in contrast to a bird's > > eye view> and in > > no false sense of modesty as some have perceived and > > reported. > > > > As dear Tanveer, without whose initiative and > > welcome and love, we > > all would not have been here talking to each other > > and creating a > > huge archive of jyotish and jyotishis which I am > > sure will remain > > preserved for some time to come and perhaps some of > > the posts and > > postings and threads will be judged by future > > jyotishis in making as > > being useful! This is all wonderful but I am truly > > saddned by the > > fact that this archive will not have the Systems > > approach which > > despite the way it may have been promoted or > > promulgated by some > > vocal and somewhat zealous students, was not ever > > propagated on the > > web and jyotish mailing list by its founder > > Choudhryji. I have > > interacted with him directly on Ben Collins' list in > > early and mid > > nineties as well as with KN Raoji and PVR Narasimha > > Rao and Sanjay > > Rath ji and I can tell you that those were far > > gentler times for > > Jyotish and wiser! > > > > I think personally that it would be wise of sincere > > jyotish students > > to study for a few years, at least the first few > > (say ten to pick a > > number?) just with an open mind not just Parashara, > > Varahamihira, > > Satyacharyaa, Kalidasa, Mukunda Vallabha and other > > ancient and more > > recent texts and also the Ojhas, Sastry, Raman and > > Raos, and > > Krishnamurthy and Choudhry and others. Before > > jumping into learning > > from the Internet school where invariably very > > strong emotions and > > anecdotal *evidence* (known in some > > scientific/statistical circles as > > BIAS!) simply floats around! And it is not > > superficial but some of it > > has very deep-seated roots. Not all roots are good, > > because some of > > those hold us down, unnecessarily -- and often to > > our personal > > detriment! > > > > While I may not be an automatic devotee of Kobiguru > > Robindronath > > (some may be surprised to read, me being raised in a > > bengalee family > > many of which having been very influenced by the > > Great Poet Tagore > > and also me almost by serendipity of migration > > having come into > > contact with not just some individuals who were > > educated in > > Bishwabharati, but one of those Didis actually got > > married to a close > > relative in the direct blood line of the Great Poet. > > I am not trying > > to toss 'names' etc but just sharing my personal > > experience to > > describe how while *conditioned* in a certain way > > and from upbringing > > to question, if not reject Robee Thakur (as > > Robindronathji is > > referred to by Bengawelees -- I have been touched by > > him in so many > > ways! PRIMARILY and getting back to this thread, > > contextually, by his > > UNIQUE vision of creating a University of learning > > of culture and > > literature and art -- that comes from, and sustains > > the human soul, > > the very spirit of a culture or perhaps HUMAN > > CULTURE! > > > > I view Jyotish not as a technical discipline or pure > > creative artform > > or an imaginative pot-pourri of mish-mash as SOME > > have always tried > > to turn it into, but as a descriptor of the culture > > known as HUMAN > > EXPERIENCE! > > > > The HUMAN EXPERIENCE they say is about 100000 years > > old, but all we > > know of it really is the last thousand years or > > three! And yet it > > seems that most of the ACTION happened in the last > > few hundred years! > > I think that is an anomaly of our perception. > > > > Jyotish may be the infrared telescope that allows us > > to see a bit > > beyond and farther than our normal vision would make > > us believe or > > define the visible reality! Perhaps a crude example > > but if you *get* > > it what I am trying to share then you will perhaps > > begin to view > > jyotish as not just some quickie technique which > > will let you figure > > out yourself or with the aid of a TAG > > (Trick-All-Gyani) what there is > > to know in this lifetime (visible horizon) -- but > > what lies beyond > > where the world as you know curves down and not only > > dips deeper but > > potentially completes the CIRCLE of EXISTENCE! > > > > I know -- long posting, but hopefully the message is > > in there > > embedded for someone to pay attention to. If not, I > > am sure you would > > read it, and I for sure will! > > > > As you all know, I am easy to please...! > > > > RR > > > > > > , vattem > > krishnan > > <bursar_99@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri Rohini ji, > > > Your observation about the approach is forth > > right and there > > should be scope for fair and honest debate on all > > aspects of > > jyotish.So i personally what you have mentioned as: > > > > > > " just for airness and equality, ALL systems and > > approaches must > > be allowed on > > > this forum! " > > > is most desirable.This is how we can anlyse and > > understand the > > scope Vedic and Astrology to attempt for possible > > redressal if any > > canbe offered. > > > In the process we do respect individual opinions > > and the > > puritanical of ancient sastras and their evolution > > as the times have > > been changing and getting into technology > > orientation.may be we need > > to drill and more as the subject itself is very vast > > and complex.It > > is not just a mathematical formulas and there are no > > quick answers > > for the problems which are basically taking roots > > for one's own past > > and actions there of. > > > Reality is problems being experienced and the > > vexation ther of as > > no immediate redressal is not forthcoming.we sitting > > on intenet and > > attending to few queries are also definetely > > approach in piecemeal > > manner and definetely this is not the palce where > > holistic approach > > can be adopted.when sevral views are expreessed in > > different > > directions we find the spectrum as desperation to > > ecstasy and some > > viewing as very problematic understanding.Let's not > > forget the data > > is basically as putforth and emnating what ever has > > been expressed > > and sought for.In the process we are relying on the > > basic science and > > knowledge,whcih certainly needs a forum to > > deliberate and find a > > possible and synchronised approach than to inhibit > > and react to the > > views expressed.The democracy is inherent but has > > some reagrd and > > respect for every one that speaks with sblimity. > > > regards > > > vrkrishnan > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games. > http://get.games./proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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