how much spiritual progess i can make in this life

March 22, 2007

Dear Learned Members,

i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in this life.

and how many life time i am away from moksha.

any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for spiritual

development.

my details are,

DOB:7th may 1980

TOB : 16:35pm

Place : Hissar(haryana)

Male,software engg.

kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

thanks and regards

Amit

March 22, 2007

Dear Bunty baba,

You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well thats good

but you should be concentrating on your duties towards family and

self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you are

really keen.

Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much he can

reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You can make.

But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one really tries.

About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

You will come to know, also let me know about mines when you come

to know yours.

Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or else some

Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible to recieve

this part of understanding ?

Best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " bunty_trehan "

<amitnitj2000 wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Members,

> i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in this life.

> and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for spiritual

>

> development.

>

> my details are,

> DOB:7th may 1980

> TOB : 16:35pm

> Place : Hissar(haryana)

> Male,software engg.

>

> kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

>

> rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

> lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

>

> thanks and regards

> Amit

>

March 22, 2007

Dear Bhaskar Sir

Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take it but from

a astrologer i wont accept it.

i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart read by a

competent astrologer has not come yet.

otherwise what u said is 100% right.

regards

Amit

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Bunty baba,

>

> You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well thats good

> but you should be concentrating on your duties towards family and

> self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you are

> really keen.

> Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much he can

> reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You can make.

> But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one really tries.

> About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> You will come to know, also let me know about mines when you come

> to know yours.

>

> Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or else

some

> Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible to

recieve

> this part of understanding ?

>

> Best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " bunty_trehan "

> <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Learned Members,

> > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in this

life.

> > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for spiritual

> >

> > development.

> >

> > my details are,

> > DOB:7th may 1980

> > TOB : 16:35pm

> > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > Male,software engg.

> >

> > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> >

> > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

> > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> >

> > thanks and regards

> > Amit

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Dear Amit,

Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No arguments on

that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic tool,then it

can also become a handicap for a person who will become akarmanic (Or

without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in his lap).

For instance If i tell you that You have a very good spiritual

potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting efforts in this

line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny would do it

for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge in

advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have to make

ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

whether promise there or not in the charts.

Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written in Your

chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying thinking that

" I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy now " .

When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I reach here

when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy your chart

was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

your chart was wrong " .

A wife who has to remain content in life should always see the

neighbour who is much below in living standards than her. And a Man

who has to rise in life should always see and read about the lives of

Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in business

through their hard work and labour.

For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show much

spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace, I am

going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift received

from some previous births good satkarmas.

By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from Karakamsha

lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I remain

happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as I have

mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with this

knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " amit " <amittre wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar Sir

>

> Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take it but

from

> a astrologer i wont accept it.

> i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart read by

a

> competent astrologer has not come yet.

>

> otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> regards

> Amit

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bunty baba,

> >

> > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well thats good

> > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards family and

> > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you are

> > really keen.

> > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much he can

> > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You can

make.

> > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one really

tries.

> > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > You will come to know, also let me know about mines when you come

> > to know yours.

> >

> > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or else

> some

> > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible to

> recieve

> > this part of understanding ?

> >

> > Best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " bunty_trehan "

> > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in this

> life.

> > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for

spiritual

> > >

> > > development.

> > >

> > > my details are,

> > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > Male,software engg.

> > >

> > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > >

> > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

> > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > >

> > > thanks and regards

> > > Amit

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Respected Bhaskar Sir

may be i am troubling u.

but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is going

to happen.

its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

it could happen that your statement may discourage or encourage me

for a while.

but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in my chart

(bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

situation for me).

2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly that

what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one that is

being searched "

so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very moment i am

getting away from it.

now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain moksha " .

then i will become lazy and relaxed.

thats very good Bhaskar sir.

this is the secret of moksha.

be loose and relaxed.

Tao is based upon it.

gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

and dont u think that after listening to your words if i become lazy

for then this laziness was written in my chart.

Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

this world is a unity.

i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

so many forces in world are affecting me.

so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but here

there is a point.

WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my reaction to

those event is in my hand.

suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is written in

my chart.

but my reaction to this is in my hand.

i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my hand.

if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

individually or in group.

Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will happen.

there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his guru he

was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

discourses.

his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a eye.

in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that i pay

attention to my worldly duties

then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater things.

and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my birth time

is accurate.

and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became succesful with

out any promise in their chart.

just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where planets

affected life of people who became enlightened.

1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or resist

he will be married after 3 months.

UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7 year time

will be death like for him

at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for death

at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

the word brahmin means twice born.

ego has to die.

jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of god "

3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he will be

great king or great sage.

4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine powers

used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and whenever

he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna growth.

5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had achieved

samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna ) and he

looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of classic " I AM

THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath) whats

the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

" its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u try ur

hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

so plz discourage me.

u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

Amit

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Amit,

>

> Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No arguments on

> that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic tool,then

it

> can also become a handicap for a person who will become akarmanic

(Or

> without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in his

lap).

> For instance If i tell you that You have a very good spiritual

> potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting efforts in

this

> line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny would do

it

> for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge in

> advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have to make

> ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> whether promise there or not in the charts.

> Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written in Your

> chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying thinking that

> " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy now " .

> When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I reach

here

> when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy your

chart

> was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> your chart was wrong " .

>

> A wife who has to remain content in life should always see the

> neighbour who is much below in living standards than her. And a Man

> who has to rise in life should always see and read about the lives

of

> Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in business

> through their hard work and labour.

>

> For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show much

> spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace, I am

> going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift received

> from some previous births good satkarmas.

>

> By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from Karakamsha

> lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I remain

> happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as I have

> mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with this

> knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

, " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> >

> > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take it but

> from

> > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart read

by

> a

> > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> >

> > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > regards

> > Amit

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > >

> > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well thats

good

> > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards family

and

> > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you are

> > > really keen.

> > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much he

can

> > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You can

> make.

> > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one really

> tries.

> > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines when you

come

> > > to know yours.

> > >

> > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or

else

> > some

> > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible to

> > recieve

> > > this part of understanding ?

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in

this

> > life.

> > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for

> spiritual

> > > >

> > > > development.

> > > >

> > > > my details are,

> > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > Male,software engg.

> > > >

> > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > >

> > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

> > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > >

> > > > thanks and regards

> > > > Amit

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Dear Amit,

What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I agree to

that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in your

chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as It is

meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

same ?

One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is written in

your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to say ?

Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on its

own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

remember good promises are there in every chart, but those who do not

work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

What is written actually in your destiny ?

Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one would

earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer in

life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

As regards to free will, that is available for adridha Karmas, and

for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which there is

no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but for

adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of karma.

there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more as

the more seasons you will see.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " amit " <amittre wrote:

>

> Respected Bhaskar Sir

> may be i am troubling u.

> but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

>

> 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is going

> to happen.

> its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> it could happen that your statement may discourage or encourage me

> for a while.

> but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in my

chart

> (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

> situation for me).

>

> 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly that

> what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one that

is

> being searched "

> so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very moment i am

> getting away from it.

>

> now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

moksha " .

> then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> this is the secret of moksha.

> be loose and relaxed.

> Tao is based upon it.

> gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

> and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> and dont u think that after listening to your words if i become

lazy

> for then this laziness was written in my chart.

>

> Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> this world is a unity.

> i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> so many forces in world are affecting me.

> so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but here

> there is a point.

> WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my reaction

to

> those event is in my hand.

> suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is written

in

> my chart.

> but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my hand.

> if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> individually or in group.

>

> Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will happen.

> there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his guru he

> was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

> discourses.

> his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a eye.

>

> in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that i pay

> attention to my worldly duties

> then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater things.

> and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my birth

time

> is accurate.

> and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became succesful with

> out any promise in their chart.

>

> just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where

planets

> affected life of people who became enlightened.

>

> 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or resist

> he will be married after 3 months.

> UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

>

> 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7 year

time

> will be death like for him

> at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for death

> at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> the word brahmin means twice born.

> ego has to die.

> jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of god "

>

> 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he will

be

> great king or great sage.

>

> 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine powers

> used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

whenever

> he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna growth.

>

> 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had achieved

> samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna ) and he

> looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

>

> 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

>

> 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of classic " I

AM

> THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath) whats

> the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u try

ur

> hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

>

> so plz discourage me.

> u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

> Amit

>

, " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No arguments on

> > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

tool,then

> it

> > can also become a handicap for a person who will become akarmanic

> (Or

> > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in his

> lap).

> > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good spiritual

> > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting efforts in

> this

> > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny would

do

> it

> > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge in

> > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have to

make

> > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written in

Your

> > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying thinking that

> > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy now " .

> > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I reach

> here

> > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy your

> chart

> > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > your chart was wrong " .

> >

> > A wife who has to remain content in life should always see the

> > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her. And a

Man

> > who has to rise in life should always see and read about the

lives

> of

> > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in business

> > through their hard work and labour.

> >

> > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show much

> > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace, I am

> > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift

received

> > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> >

> > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

Karakamsha

> > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I remain

> > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as I

have

> > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with this

> > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > >

> > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take it

but

> > from

> > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart

read

> by

> > a

> > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > >

> > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > regards

> > > Amit

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > >

> > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well thats

> good

> > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards family

> and

> > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you

are

> > > > really keen.

> > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much he

> can

> > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You can

> > make.

> > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one really

> > tries.

> > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines when you

> come

> > > > to know yours.

> > > >

> > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or

> else

> > > some

> > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible to

> > > recieve

> > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in

> this

> > > life.

> > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for

> > spiritual

> > > > >

> > > > > development.

> > > > >

> > > > > my details are,

> > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > >

> > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > >

> > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th house.

> > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > >

> > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > Amit

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched me.

i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much knowledge

is still left with astrologers.

and your reply has answered my query.

but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is significant

in our life is already decided " .

regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past life.

and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in one

way or other.

nothing is accidental in life.

people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know them

from ur past lives.

and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

" if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the exact

time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont attach with

your action. " .

and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by people who

believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have any

significance in life.

like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or not.

but all major things are already predetermined.

e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used to say

with ur will one can move a mountain.

1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn apart

bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all the

disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

concentration.

3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and finally

sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped her.

now what abt his will power.

was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door where his

helper was residing.

individual person cant fight with whole universe

or in one life time we cant change what we have done in thousands of

life.

children will not happen on its own.

but i will be just used as a medium.

Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my hand on

my own, how it is predetermined "

ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my question "

and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue with me

u can raise ur hand " .

but thoughts r not in ur control.

and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought less.

Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing things.

actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

from my side i am done

as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as It is

meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

same ? " " "

so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have to

reply to u as per my words.

thanks and regards

Amit

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Amit,

>

> What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I agree to

> that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in your

> chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as It is

> meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> same ?

>

> One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is written in

> your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to say ?

> Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on its

> own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> remember good promises are there in every chart, but those who do

not

> work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

>

> What is written actually in your destiny ?

> Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one would

> earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer in

> life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

>

> As regards to free will, that is available for adridha Karmas, and

> for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which there

is

> no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but for

> adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of karma.

>

> there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more as

> the more seasons you will see.

>

> regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > may be i am troubling u.

> > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> >

> > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is

going

> > to happen.

> > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > it could happen that your statement may discourage or encourage

me

> > for a while.

> > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in my

> chart

> > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

> > situation for me).

> >

> > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly

that

> > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one

that

> is

> > being searched "

> > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very moment i

am

> > getting away from it.

> >

> > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> moksha " .

> > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > this is the secret of moksha.

> > be loose and relaxed.

> > Tao is based upon it.

> > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

> > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i become

> lazy

> > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> >

> > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > this world is a unity.

> > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but

here

> > there is a point.

> > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my reaction

> to

> > those event is in my hand.

> > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

written

> in

> > my chart.

> > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my hand.

> > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > individually or in group.

> >

> > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will happen.

> > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his guru

he

> > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

> > discourses.

> > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a eye.

> >

> > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that i

pay

> > attention to my worldly duties

> > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

things.

> > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my birth

> time

> > is accurate.

> > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became succesful

with

> > out any promise in their chart.

> >

> > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where

> planets

> > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> >

> > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or

resist

> > he will be married after 3 months.

> > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> >

> > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7 year

> time

> > will be death like for him

> > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for death

> > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > ego has to die.

> > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of god "

> >

> > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he will

> be

> > great king or great sage.

> >

> > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine powers

> > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> whenever

> > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna growth.

> >

> > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had achieved

> > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna ) and he

> > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> >

> > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> >

> > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

classic " I

> AM

> > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath)

whats

> > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u try

> ur

> > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> >

> > so plz discourage me.

> > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

> > Amit

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Amit,

> > >

> > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No arguments

on

> > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> tool,then

> > it

> > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

akarmanic

> > (Or

> > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in his

> > lap).

> > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good spiritual

> > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting efforts in

> > this

> > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny would

> do

> > it

> > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge in

> > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have to

> make

> > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written in

> Your

> > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying thinking

that

> > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy now " .

> > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I reach

> > here

> > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy

your

> > chart

> > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > your chart was wrong " .

> > >

> > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always see the

> > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her. And a

> Man

> > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about the

> lives

> > of

> > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

business

> > > through their hard work and labour.

> > >

> > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show much

> > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace, I

am

> > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift

> received

> > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > >

> > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> Karakamsha

> > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I remain

> > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as I

> have

> > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with

this

> > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " amit " <amittre@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > >

> > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take it

> but

> > > from

> > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart

> read

> > by

> > > a

> > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > >

> > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > regards

> > > > Amit

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > >

> > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well

thats

> > good

> > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards

family

> > and

> > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if you

> are

> > > > > really keen.

> > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how much

he

> > can

> > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You

can

> > > make.

> > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one

really

> > > tries.

> > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines when

you

> > come

> > > > > to know yours.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know, or

> > else

> > > > some

> > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be eligible

to

> > > > recieve

> > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make in

> > this

> > > > life.

> > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for

> > > spiritual

> > > > > >

> > > > > > development.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th

house.

> > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > Amit

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Dear Amit,

I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-determined.

as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

but not free will for the major events in my life.

Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our life,

over which we do not have control over.

people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again You

are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

have to be complied with.

You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery and

earn

Crores of rupees.

Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

it would be better if we studied about them properly.

At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

because he had taken this upon himself from another

native who was suffering. He could also have

transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

petty things and matters.

Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " amit " <amittre wrote:

>

> RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched me.

> i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

knowledge

> is still left with astrologers.

> and your reply has answered my query.

>

> but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

significant

> in our life is already decided " .

> regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past life.

> and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in one

> way or other.

> nothing is accidental in life.

> people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know them

> from ur past lives.

>

> and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the exact

> time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont attach

with

> your action. " .

>

> and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by people

who

> believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have any

> significance in life.

> like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or not.

> but all major things are already predetermined.

>

> e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used to

say

> with ur will one can move a mountain.

> 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

apart

> bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all the

> disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> concentration.

> 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and finally

> sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped her.

> now what abt his will power.

> was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door where

his

> helper was residing.

> individual person cant fight with whole universe

> or in one life time we cant change what we have done in thousands

of

> life.

>

> children will not happen on its own.

> but i will be just used as a medium.

> Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

>

> once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my hand

on

> my own, how it is predetermined "

> ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my question "

> and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue with

me

> u can raise ur hand " .

> but thoughts r not in ur control.

> and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought less.

>

> Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing things.

> actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

>

> from my side i am done

> as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as It is

> meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> same ? " " "

>

> so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have to

> reply to u as per my words.

> thanks and regards

> Amit

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I agree to

> > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in your

> > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as It is

> > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > same ?

> >

> > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is written

in

> > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to say ?

> > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on its

> > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those who do

> not

> > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> >

> > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

would

> > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer in

> > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> >

> > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha Karmas,

and

> > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

there

> is

> > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but for

> > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of karma.

> >

> > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more as

> > the more seasons you will see.

> >

> > regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > >

> > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is

> going

> > > to happen.

> > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or encourage

> me

> > > for a while.

> > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in my

> > chart

> > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

> > > situation for me).

> > >

> > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly

> that

> > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one

> that

> > is

> > > being searched "

> > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very moment

i

> am

> > > getting away from it.

> > >

> > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > moksha " .

> > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

> > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i become

> > lazy

> > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > >

> > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > this world is a unity.

> > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but

> here

> > > there is a point.

> > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

reaction

> > to

> > > those event is in my hand.

> > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> written

> > in

> > > my chart.

> > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

hand.

> > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > individually or in group.

> > >

> > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

happen.

> > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

guru

> he

> > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

> > > discourses.

> > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a eye.

> > >

> > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that i

> pay

> > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> things.

> > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

birth

> > time

> > > is accurate.

> > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became succesful

> with

> > > out any promise in their chart.

> > >

> > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where

> > planets

> > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > >

> > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or

> resist

> > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > >

> > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7 year

> > time

> > > will be death like for him

> > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

death

> > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > ego has to die.

> > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of god "

> > >

> > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he

will

> > be

> > > great king or great sage.

> > >

> > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

powers

> > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> > whenever

> > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

growth.

> > >

> > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

achieved

> > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna ) and

he

> > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > >

> > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > >

> > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> classic " I

> > AM

> > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath)

> whats

> > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u

try

> > ur

> > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > >

> > > so plz discourage me.

> > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

> > > Amit

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Amit,

> > > >

> > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No arguments

> on

> > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > tool,then

> > > it

> > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> akarmanic

> > > (Or

> > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in

his

> > > lap).

> > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

spiritual

> > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting efforts

in

> > > this

> > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

would

> > do

> > > it

> > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge in

> > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have

to

> > make

> > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written in

> > Your

> > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying thinking

> that

> > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy now " .

> > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

reach

> > > here

> > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy

> your

> > > chart

> > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > >

> > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always see

the

> > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her. And

a

> > Man

> > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about the

> > lives

> > > of

> > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> business

> > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > >

> > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show much

> > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace, I

> am

> > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift

> > received

> > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > >

> > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > Karakamsha

> > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I remain

> > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as I

> > have

> > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with

> this

> > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take

it

> > but

> > > > from

> > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time chart

> > read

> > > by

> > > > a

> > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > >

> > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > regards

> > > > > Amit

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well

> thats

> > > good

> > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards

> family

> > > and

> > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if

you

> > are

> > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

much

> he

> > > can

> > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress You

> can

> > > > make.

> > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one

> really

> > > > tries.

> > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away from

> > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines when

> you

> > > come

> > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would know,

or

> > > else

> > > > > some

> > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

eligible

> to

> > > > > recieve

> > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can make

in

> > > this

> > > > > life.

> > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of for

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th

> house.

> > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Respected Bhaskar sir

this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in last

post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

astrologers are also not in good number.

but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

assumption)

as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is one

of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

birth to help me in spreading my work.

but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless against

his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not take my

age into consideration.

but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

about others.

4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha Karmas is

either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i mean

Luck.

but i m confused by ur words.

in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is available

for adridha Karmas " .

and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant

things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

controversial

i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as possible.

u said " But yes if you are going to

be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

windows to enter. "

Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat) and

hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others as

buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help others.

bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva) and

those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see me

sleeping.

then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

later i ll also be awake

or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u want me

to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter how

much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

(hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

so what u said is not right.

have a nice sleep

Amit

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Amit,

>

> I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-determined.

> as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> but not free will for the major events in my life.

> Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our life,

> over which we do not have control over.

>

> people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again You

> are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> have to be complied with.

>

> You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery and

> earn

> Crores of rupees.

>

> Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> because he had taken this upon himself from another

> native who was suffering. He could also have

> transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

>

> Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

> By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> petty things and matters.

>

> Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> >

> > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched me.

> > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> knowledge

> > is still left with astrologers.

> > and your reply has answered my query.

> >

> > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> significant

> > in our life is already decided " .

> > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past

life.

> > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in

one

> > way or other.

> > nothing is accidental in life.

> > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know them

> > from ur past lives.

> >

> > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the

exact

> > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont attach

> with

> > your action. " .

> >

> > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by people

> who

> > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have

any

> > significance in life.

> > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or not.

> > but all major things are already predetermined.

> >

> > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used to

> say

> > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

> apart

> > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all the

> > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > concentration.

> > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

finally

> > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped

her.

> > now what abt his will power.

> > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door where

> his

> > helper was residing.

> > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in thousands

> of

> > life.

> >

> > children will not happen on its own.

> > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> >

> > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my hand

> on

> > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

question "

> > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue

with

> me

> > u can raise ur hand " .

> > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought less.

> >

> > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing things.

> > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> >

> > from my side i am done

> > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as It

is

> > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > same ? " " "

> >

> > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have

to

> > reply to u as per my words.

> > thanks and regards

> > Amit

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Amit,

> > >

> > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I agree

to

> > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in

your

> > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as It

is

> > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > > same ?

> > >

> > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is written

> in

> > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to say ?

> > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on

its

> > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those who

do

> > not

> > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > >

> > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

> would

> > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer

in

> > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > >

> > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha Karmas,

> and

> > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

> there

> > is

> > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but for

> > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of

karma.

> > >

> > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more as

> > > the more seasons you will see.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " amit " <amittre@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > >

> > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is

> > going

> > > > to happen.

> > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

encourage

> > me

> > > > for a while.

> > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in

my

> > > chart

> > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

> > > > situation for me).

> > > >

> > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly

> > that

> > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one

> > that

> > > is

> > > > being searched "

> > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

moment

> i

> > am

> > > > getting away from it.

> > > >

> > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > > moksha " .

> > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

> > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

become

> > > lazy

> > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but

> > here

> > > > there is a point.

> > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> reaction

> > > to

> > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> > written

> > > in

> > > > my chart.

> > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

> hand.

> > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > > individually or in group.

> > > >

> > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

> happen.

> > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

> guru

> > he

> > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

> > > > discourses.

> > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a

eye.

> > > >

> > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that

i

> > pay

> > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> > things.

> > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

> birth

> > > time

> > > > is accurate.

> > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

succesful

> > with

> > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > >

> > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where

> > > planets

> > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > >

> > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or

> > resist

> > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > >

> > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7

year

> > > time

> > > > will be death like for him

> > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

> death

> > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > ego has to die.

> > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of

god "

> > > >

> > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he

> will

> > > be

> > > > great king or great sage.

> > > >

> > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

> powers

> > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> > > whenever

> > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

> growth.

> > > >

> > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> achieved

> > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna )

and

> he

> > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > >

> > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > >

> > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > classic " I

> > > AM

> > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath)

> > whats

> > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u

> try

> > > ur

> > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > > >

> > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

> > > > Amit

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

arguments

> > on

> > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > > tool,then

> > > > it

> > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> > akarmanic

> > > > (Or

> > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in

> his

> > > > lap).

> > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> spiritual

> > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

efforts

> in

> > > > this

> > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

> would

> > > do

> > > > it

> > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge

in

> > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have

> to

> > > make

> > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written

in

> > > Your

> > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

thinking

> > that

> > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

now " .

> > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

> reach

> > > > here

> > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy

> > your

> > > > chart

> > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > >

> > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always see

> the

> > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her.

And

> a

> > > Man

> > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about

the

> > > lives

> > > > of

> > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> > business

> > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > >

> > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show

much

> > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace,

I

> > am

> > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift

> > > received

> > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > >

> > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > > Karakamsha

> > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

remain

> > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as

I

> > > have

> > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with

> > this

> > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take

> it

> > > but

> > > > > from

> > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time

chart

> > > read

> > > > by

> > > > > a

> > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > Amit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well

> > thats

> > > > good

> > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards

> > family

> > > > and

> > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if

> you

> > > are

> > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

> much

> > he

> > > > can

> > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress

You

> > can

> > > > > make.

> > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one

> > really

> > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away

from

> > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines

when

> > you

> > > > come

> > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

know,

> or

> > > > else

> > > > > > some

> > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> eligible

> > to

> > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can

make

> in

> > > > this

> > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of

for

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th

> > house.

> > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

My apologies for barging into the discussion...cannot resist myself...

For these readings look at the Karmic Triangle - the fifth house for sanchit

karmas; the ninth house for prarabdh karmas and the first house for your karmik

(current) karmas.

Also remember - Karma heen, bhagya heen i.e. if you do not work, you do not

get anything depite it being due to you astrologically.

Transfer of karma is an art practised by yogis and tantriks - they however,

prefer to burn all karmas due to them as soon as possible to attain moksha. When

time comes, one himself becomes aware (it is deeper than intution) of his

likelihood of achieving moksha - this discussion can go on for long without

concurrence or reaching any conclusions.

Interchange of karmas is easier - with help of astrological remedies, for

instance.

Regards,

Amitabh

amit <amittre wrote:

Respected Bhaskar sir

this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in last

post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

astrologers are also not in good number.

but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

assumption)

as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is one

of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

birth to help me in spreading my work.

but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless against

his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not take my

age into consideration.

but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

about others.

4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha Karmas is

either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i mean

Luck.

but i m confused by ur words.

in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is available

for adridha Karmas " .

and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant

things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

controversial

i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as possible.

u said " But yes if you are going to

be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

windows to enter. "

Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat) and

hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others as

buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help others.

bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva) and

those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see me

sleeping.

then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

later i ll also be awake

or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u want me

to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter how

much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

(hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

so what u said is not right.

have a nice sleep

Amit

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Amit,

>

> I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-determined.

> as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> but not free will for the major events in my life.

> Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our life,

> over which we do not have control over.

>

> people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again You

> are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> have to be complied with.

>

> You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery and

> earn

> Crores of rupees.

>

> Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> because he had taken this upon himself from another

> native who was suffering. He could also have

> transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

>

> Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

> By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> petty things and matters.

>

> Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> >

> > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched me.

> > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> knowledge

> > is still left with astrologers.

> > and your reply has answered my query.

> >

> > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> significant

> > in our life is already decided " .

> > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past

life.

> > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in

one

> > way or other.

> > nothing is accidental in life.

> > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know them

> > from ur past lives.

> >

> > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the

exact

> > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont attach

> with

> > your action. " .

> >

> > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by people

> who

> > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have

any

> > significance in life.

> > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or not.

> > but all major things are already predetermined.

> >

> > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used to

> say

> > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

> apart

> > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all the

> > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > concentration.

> > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

finally

> > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped

her.

> > now what abt his will power.

> > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door where

> his

> > helper was residing.

> > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in thousands

> of

> > life.

> >

> > children will not happen on its own.

> > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> >

> > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my hand

> on

> > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

question "

> > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue

with

> me

> > u can raise ur hand " .

> > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought less.

> >

> > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing things.

> > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> >

> > from my side i am done

> > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as It

is

> > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > same ? " " "

> >

> > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have

to

> > reply to u as per my words.

> > thanks and regards

> > Amit

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Amit,

> > >

> > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I agree

to

> > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in

your

> > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as It

is

> > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > > same ?

> > >

> > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is written

> in

> > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to say ?

> > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on

its

> > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those who

do

> > not

> > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > >

> > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

> would

> > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer

in

> > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > >

> > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha Karmas,

> and

> > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

> there

> > is

> > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but for

> > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of

karma.

> > >

> > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more as

> > > the more seasons you will see.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " amit " <amittre@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > >

> > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that is

> > going

> > > > to happen.

> > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

encourage

> > me

> > > > for a while.

> > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written in

my

> > > chart

> > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create that

> > > > situation for me).

> > > >

> > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or indirectly

> > that

> > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the one

> > that

> > > is

> > > > being searched "

> > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

moment

> i

> > am

> > > > getting away from it.

> > > >

> > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > > moksha " .

> > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of God

> > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

become

> > > lazy

> > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined but

> > here

> > > > there is a point.

> > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> reaction

> > > to

> > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> > written

> > > in

> > > > my chart.

> > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

> hand.

> > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > > individually or in group.

> > > >

> > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

> happen.

> > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

> guru

> > he

> > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving free

> > > > discourses.

> > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a

eye.

> > > >

> > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time that

i

> > pay

> > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> > things.

> > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

> birth

> > > time

> > > > is accurate.

> > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

succesful

> > with

> > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > >

> > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances where

> > > planets

> > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > >

> > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do or

> > resist

> > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > >

> > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7

year

> > > time

> > > > will be death like for him

> > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

> death

> > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > ego has to die.

> > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of

god "

> > > >

> > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either he

> will

> > > be

> > > > great king or great sage.

> > > >

> > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

> powers

> > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> > > whenever

> > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

> growth.

> > > >

> > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> achieved

> > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna )

and

> he

> > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > >

> > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > >

> > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > classic " I

> > > AM

> > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh Nath)

> > whats

> > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that u

> try

> > > ur

> > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > > >

> > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long mail

> > > > Amit

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

arguments

> > on

> > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > > tool,then

> > > > it

> > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> > akarmanic

> > > > (Or

> > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits in

> his

> > > > lap).

> > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> spiritual

> > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

efforts

> in

> > > > this

> > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

> would

> > > do

> > > > it

> > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have knowledge

in

> > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because that

> > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all have

> to

> > > make

> > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha written

in

> > > Your

> > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

thinking

> > that

> > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

now " .

> > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

> reach

> > > > here

> > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you that " Boy

> > your

> > > > chart

> > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > >

> > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always see

> the

> > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her.

And

> a

> > > Man

> > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about

the

> > > lives

> > > > of

> > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> > business

> > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > >

> > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show

much

> > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods Grace,

I

> > am

> > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of gift

> > > received

> > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > >

> > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > > Karakamsha

> > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

remain

> > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same as

I

> > > have

> > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable with

> > this

> > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can take

> it

> > > but

> > > > > from

> > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time

chart

> > > read

> > > > by

> > > > > a

> > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > Amit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha. Well

> > thats

> > > > good

> > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties towards

> > family

> > > > and

> > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual if

> you

> > > are

> > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

> much

> > he

> > > > can

> > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress

You

> > can

> > > > > make.

> > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if one

> > really

> > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away

from

> > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines

when

> > you

> > > > come

> > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

know,

> or

> > > > else

> > > > > > some

> > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> eligible

> > to

> > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can

make

> in

> > > > this

> > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of

for

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in 12th

> > house.

> > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from

your Internet provider.

March 22, 2007

Dear Amit ,

I can still see that You are having lots of

bookish knowledge and you are not here to learn, but

to lecture,.

When I said Adridha Karmas are connected to significant

events in our life which cannot be controlled by us,

even a small child can understand that it was a typo error.

In fact i had highlited that " a " to delete it, it seems

I forgot to delete and got engrossed in something else. It

is also evident that you are here to argue

and just show what knowledge you

have and not interested in coming to a conclusion.

If You think that all these theories of Adridha and

Dridha Karmas are made by people who just believe in

luck, then dont talk about Ramkrishna and Vivekananda

and Gita.

Yes I mantain there are not very many astrologers in

india who can reach the truth.

Rama was not helpless and it was not the real Sita who

was kidnapped.You know nothing. Do your homework

properly and dont talk about great personalities and

their behaviours. They were incarnations and one

should not try to judge their behaviours.

When I talk of age I am not talking of number of

years in my previous post and this post. I am talking

of number of years of experience. You have shown the

knowledge you have and please I am now getting too much

zapped up with this abundance of knowledge of yours,

and kindly spare me your sermons.I am not going to get

converted to Buddhism. Search for other pastures please.

I have unfortunately wasted my time and labour and

efforts on an extra smart person like you, who just

wanted to indulge in arguments and search for loopholes

in the replies to display what You know.

Please spare me.And dont reply me.

Bhaskar.

, " amit " <amittre wrote:

>

> Respected Bhaskar sir

>

> this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

> i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in last

> post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

> astrologers are also not in good number.

> but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

> so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

>

> i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

> assumption)

> as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

>

> 2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is one

> of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

> birth to help me in spreading my work.

> but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless

against

> his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

>

> 3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not take

my

> age into consideration.

> but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

> about others.

>

> 4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha Karmas

is

> either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i

mean

> Luck.

>

> but i m confused by ur words.

> in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is available

> for adridha Karmas " .

> and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the

significant

> things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

> these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

>

> and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

> controversial

> i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as

possible.

> u said " But yes if you are going to

> be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> windows to enter. "

> Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat) and

> hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

>

> once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others as

> buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

> many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help others.

> bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

>

> so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva) and

> those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

> its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see me

> sleeping.

> then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

> later i ll also be awake

> or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u want

me

> to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter how

> much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

>

> and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

> (hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

> so what u said is not right.

>

> have a nice sleep

> Amit

>

, " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> > Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-

determined.

> > as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> > but not free will for the major events in my life.

> > Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our

life,

> > over which we do not have control over.

> >

> > people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again

You

> > are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> > have to be complied with.

> >

> > You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> > but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery

and

> > earn

> > Crores of rupees.

> >

> > Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> > it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> > At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> > RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> > Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> > it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> > because he had taken this upon himself from another

> > native who was suffering. He could also have

> > transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> > Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> > he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> > now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> > in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

> >

> > Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

> > By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> > Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> > literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> > a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> > petty things and matters.

> >

> > Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> > Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> > now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> > be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> > or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> > it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> > we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> > windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> > >

> > > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched

me.

> > > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> > knowledge

> > > is still left with astrologers.

> > > and your reply has answered my query.

> > >

> > > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> > significant

> > > in our life is already decided " .

> > > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past

> life.

> > > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in

> one

> > > way or other.

> > > nothing is accidental in life.

> > > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know

them

> > > from ur past lives.

> > >

> > > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the

> exact

> > > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont

attach

> > with

> > > your action. " .

> > >

> > > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by

people

> > who

> > > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have

> any

> > > significance in life.

> > > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or

not.

> > > but all major things are already predetermined.

> > >

> > > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used

to

> > say

> > > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

> > apart

> > > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all

the

> > > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > > concentration.

> > > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

> finally

> > > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped

> her.

> > > now what abt his will power.

> > > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door

where

> > his

> > > helper was residing.

> > > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in

thousands

> > of

> > > life.

> > >

> > > children will not happen on its own.

> > > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> > >

> > > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my

hand

> > on

> > > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

> question "

> > > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue

> with

> > me

> > > u can raise ur hand " .

> > > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought

less.

> > >

> > > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing

things.

> > > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> > >

> > > from my side i am done

> > > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > > same ? " " "

> > >

> > > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have

> to

> > > reply to u as per my words.

> > > thanks and regards

> > > Amit

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Amit,

> > > >

> > > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I

agree

> to

> > > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in

> your

> > > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise

the

> > > > same ?

> > > >

> > > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is

written

> > in

> > > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to

say ?

> > > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on

> its

> > > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those

who

> do

> > > not

> > > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > > >

> > > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

> > would

> > > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer

> in

> > > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > > >

> > > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha

Karmas,

> > and

> > > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

> > there

> > > is

> > > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but

for

> > > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of

> karma.

> > > >

> > > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more

as

> > > > the more seasons you will see.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that

is

> > > going

> > > > > to happen.

> > > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

> encourage

> > > me

> > > > > for a while.

> > > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written

in

> my

> > > > chart

> > > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create

that

> > > > > situation for me).

> > > > >

> > > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or

indirectly

> > > that

> > > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the

one

> > > that

> > > > is

> > > > > being searched "

> > > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

> moment

> > i

> > > am

> > > > > getting away from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > > > moksha " .

> > > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of

God

> > > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

> become

> > > > lazy

> > > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined

but

> > > here

> > > > > there is a point.

> > > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> > reaction

> > > > to

> > > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> > > written

> > > > in

> > > > > my chart.

> > > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

> > hand.

> > > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > > > individually or in group.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

> > happen.

> > > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

> > guru

> > > he

> > > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving

free

> > > > > discourses.

> > > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a

> eye.

> > > > >

> > > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time

that

> i

> > > pay

> > > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> > > things.

> > > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

> > birth

> > > > time

> > > > > is accurate.

> > > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

> succesful

> > > with

> > > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances

where

> > > > planets

> > > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do

or

> > > resist

> > > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7

> year

> > > > time

> > > > > will be death like for him

> > > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

> > death

> > > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > > ego has to die.

> > > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of

> god "

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either

he

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > great king or great sage.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

> > powers

> > > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine

and

> > > > whenever

> > > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

> > growth.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> > achieved

> > > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna )

> and

> > he

> > > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > > classic " I

> > > > AM

> > > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh

Nath)

> > > whats

> > > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that

u

> > try

> > > > ur

> > > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > > > >

> > > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long

mail

> > > > > Amit

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

> arguments

> > > on

> > > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > > > tool,then

> > > > > it

> > > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> > > akarmanic

> > > > > (Or

> > > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits

in

> > his

> > > > > lap).

> > > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> > spiritual

> > > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

> efforts

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

> > would

> > > > do

> > > > > it

> > > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have

knowledge

> in

> > > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because

that

> > > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all

have

> > to

> > > > make

> > > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha

written

> in

> > > > Your

> > > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

> thinking

> > > that

> > > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

> now " .

> > > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

> > reach

> > > > > here

> > > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you

that " Boy

> > > your

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always

see

> > the

> > > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her.

> And

> > a

> > > > Man

> > > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about

> the

> > > > lives

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> > > business

> > > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show

> much

> > > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods

Grace,

> I

> > > am

> > > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of

gift

> > > > received

> > > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

> remain

> > > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same

as

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable

with

> > > this

> > > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " amit "

<amittre@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can

take

> > it

> > > > but

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time

> chart

> > > > read

> > > > > by

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha.

Well

> > > thats

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties

towards

> > > family

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual

if

> > you

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

> > much

> > > he

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress

> You

> > > can

> > > > > > make.

> > > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if

one

> > > really

> > > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away

> from

> > > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines

> when

> > > you

> > > > > come

> > > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

> know,

> > or

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> > eligible

> > > to

> > > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can

> make

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of

> for

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in

12th

> > > house.

> > > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

March 22, 2007

Dear Amitabhji,

I request you to please take over. He is searching for

students and not for Teachers or astrologers.

This was a very good post by you, I have liked it

very much.Every sentence is worth reading and echoes

my own thoughts and feelings.

best regards,

Bhaskar.

, Amitabh Shastri

<amitabh_shastri wrote:

>

> My apologies for barging into the discussion...cannot resist

myself...

>

> For these readings look at the Karmic Triangle - the fifth house

for sanchit karmas; the ninth house for prarabdh karmas and the first

house for your karmik (current) karmas.

>

> Also remember - Karma heen, bhagya heen i.e. if you do not work,

you do not get anything depite it being due to you astrologically.

>

> Transfer of karma is an art practised by yogis and tantriks -

they however, prefer to burn all karmas due to them as soon as

possible to attain moksha. When time comes, one himself becomes aware

(it is deeper than intution) of his likelihood of achieving moksha -

this discussion can go on for long without concurrence or reaching

any conclusions.

>

> Interchange of karmas is easier - with help of astrological

remedies, for instance.

>

> Regards,

> Amitabh

>

> amit <amittre wrote:

> Respected Bhaskar sir

>

> this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

> i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in last

> post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

> astrologers are also not in good number.

> but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

> so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

>

> i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

> assumption)

> as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

>

> 2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is one

> of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

> birth to help me in spreading my work.

> but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless

against

> his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

>

> 3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not take

my

> age into consideration.

> but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

> about others.

>

> 4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha Karmas

is

> either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i

mean

> Luck.

>

> but i m confused by ur words.

> in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is available

> for adridha Karmas " .

> and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant

> things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

> these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

>

> and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

> controversial

> i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as

possible.

> u said " But yes if you are going to

> be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> windows to enter. "

> Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat) and

> hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

>

> once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others as

> buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

> many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help others.

> bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

>

> so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva) and

> those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

> its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see me

> sleeping.

> then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

> later i ll also be awake

> or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u want

me

> to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter how

> much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

>

> and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

> (hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

> so what u said is not right.

>

> have a nice sleep

> Amit

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> > Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-

determined.

> > as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> > but not free will for the major events in my life.

> > Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our

life,

> > over which we do not have control over.

> >

> > people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again

You

> > are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> > have to be complied with.

> >

> > You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> > but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery

and

> > earn

> > Crores of rupees.

> >

> > Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> > it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> > At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> > RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> > Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> > it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> > because he had taken this upon himself from another

> > native who was suffering. He could also have

> > transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> > Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> > he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> > now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> > in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

> >

> > Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

> > By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> > Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> > literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> > a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> > petty things and matters.

> >

> > Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> > Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> > now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> > be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> > or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> > it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> > we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> > windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> > >

> > > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched

me.

> > > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> > knowledge

> > > is still left with astrologers.

> > > and your reply has answered my query.

> > >

> > > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> > significant

> > > in our life is already decided " .

> > > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past

> life.

> > > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in

> one

> > > way or other.

> > > nothing is accidental in life.

> > > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know

them

> > > from ur past lives.

> > >

> > > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the

> exact

> > > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont

attach

> > with

> > > your action. " .

> > >

> > > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by

people

> > who

> > > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have

> any

> > > significance in life.

> > > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or

not.

> > > but all major things are already predetermined.

> > >

> > > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used

to

> > say

> > > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

> > apart

> > > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all

the

> > > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > > concentration.

> > > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

> finally

> > > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped

> her.

> > > now what abt his will power.

> > > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door

where

> > his

> > > helper was residing.

> > > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in

thousands

> > of

> > > life.

> > >

> > > children will not happen on its own.

> > > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> > >

> > > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my

hand

> > on

> > > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

> question "

> > > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue

> with

> > me

> > > u can raise ur hand " .

> > > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought

less.

> > >

> > > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing

things.

> > > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> > >

> > > from my side i am done

> > > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > > same ? " " "

> > >

> > > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have

> to

> > > reply to u as per my words.

> > > thanks and regards

> > > Amit

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Amit,

> > > >

> > > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I

agree

> to

> > > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in

> your

> > > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise

the

> > > > same ?

> > > >

> > > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is

written

> > in

> > > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to

say ?

> > > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on

> its

> > > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those

who

> do

> > > not

> > > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > > >

> > > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

> > would

> > > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer

> in

> > > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > > >

> > > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha

Karmas,

> > and

> > > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

> > there

> > > is

> > > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but

for

> > > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of

> karma.

> > > >

> > > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more

as

> > > > the more seasons you will see.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that

is

> > > going

> > > > > to happen.

> > > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

> encourage

> > > me

> > > > > for a while.

> > > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written

in

> my

> > > > chart

> > > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create

that

> > > > > situation for me).

> > > > >

> > > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or

indirectly

> > > that

> > > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the

one

> > > that

> > > > is

> > > > > being searched "

> > > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

> moment

> > i

> > > am

> > > > > getting away from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > > > moksha " .

> > > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of

God

> > > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

> become

> > > > lazy

> > > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined

but

> > > here

> > > > > there is a point.

> > > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> > reaction

> > > > to

> > > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> > > written

> > > > in

> > > > > my chart.

> > > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

> > hand.

> > > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > > > individually or in group.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

> > happen.

> > > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

> > guru

> > > he

> > > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving

free

> > > > > discourses.

> > > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a

> eye.

> > > > >

> > > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time

that

> i

> > > pay

> > > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> > > things.

> > > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

> > birth

> > > > time

> > > > > is accurate.

> > > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

> succesful

> > > with

> > > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances

where

> > > > planets

> > > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do

or

> > > resist

> > > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7

> year

> > > > time

> > > > > will be death like for him

> > > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

> > death

> > > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > > ego has to die.

> > > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of

> god "

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either

he

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > great king or great sage.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

> > powers

> > > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> > > > whenever

> > > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

> > growth.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> > achieved

> > > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna )

> and

> > he

> > > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > > classic " I

> > > > AM

> > > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh

Nath)

> > > whats

> > > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that

u

> > try

> > > > ur

> > > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > > > >

> > > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long

mail

> > > > > Amit

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

> arguments

> > > on

> > > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > > > tool,then

> > > > > it

> > > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> > > akarmanic

> > > > > (Or

> > > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits

in

> > his

> > > > > lap).

> > > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> > spiritual

> > > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

> efforts

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

> > would

> > > > do

> > > > > it

> > > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have

knowledge

> in

> > > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because

that

> > > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all

have

> > to

> > > > make

> > > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha

written

> in

> > > > Your

> > > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

> thinking

> > > that

> > > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

> now " .

> > > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

> > reach

> > > > > here

> > > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you

that " Boy

> > > your

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always

see

> > the

> > > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her.

> And

> > a

> > > > Man

> > > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about

> the

> > > > lives

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> > > business

> > > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show

> much

> > > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods

Grace,

> I

> > > am

> > > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of

gift

> > > > received

> > > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

> remain

> > > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same

as

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable

with

> > > this

> > > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " amit "

<amittre@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can

take

> > it

> > > > but

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time

> chart

> > > > read

> > > > > by

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha.

Well

> > > thats

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties

towards

> > > family

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual

if

> > you

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

> > much

> > > he

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress

> You

> > > can

> > > > > > make.

> > > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if

one

> > > really

> > > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away

> from

> > > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines

> when

> > > you

> > > > > come

> > > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

> know,

> > or

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> > eligible

> > > to

> > > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can

> make

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of

> for

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in

12th

> > > house.

> > > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

address from your Internet provider.

>

March 23, 2007

Dear Bhaskarji,

Thanks for your comments. Would like to continue expressing my opinion till

possible. However, few important facts make this possible, just naming two of

them:-

1. Some " rnanubandhana " must exist for the interaction to continue.

2. The recipient must be an " adhikari " (worthy) of the dues.

Regards,

Amitabh

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Dear Amitabhji,

I request you to please take over. He is searching for

students and not for Teachers or astrologers.

This was a very good post by you, I have liked it

very much.Every sentence is worth reading and echoes

my own thoughts and feelings.

best regards,

Bhaskar.

, Amitabh Shastri

<amitabh_shastri wrote:

>

> My apologies for barging into the discussion...cannot resist

myself...

>

> For these readings look at the Karmic Triangle - the fifth house

for sanchit karmas; the ninth house for prarabdh karmas and the first

house for your karmik (current) karmas.

>

> Also remember - Karma heen, bhagya heen i.e. if you do not work,

you do not get anything depite it being due to you astrologically.

>

> Transfer of karma is an art practised by yogis and tantriks -

they however, prefer to burn all karmas due to them as soon as

possible to attain moksha. When time comes, one himself becomes aware

(it is deeper than intution) of his likelihood of achieving moksha -

this discussion can go on for long without concurrence or reaching

any conclusions.

>

> Interchange of karmas is easier - with help of astrological

remedies, for instance.

>

> Regards,

> Amitabh

>

> amit <amittre wrote:

> Respected Bhaskar sir

>

> this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

> i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in last

> post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

> astrologers are also not in good number.

> but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

> so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

>

> i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

> assumption)

> as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

>

> 2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is one

> of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

> birth to help me in spreading my work.

> but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless

against

> his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

>

> 3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not take

my

> age into consideration.

> but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

> about others.

>

> 4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha Karmas

is

> either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i

mean

> Luck.

>

> but i m confused by ur words.

> in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is available

> for adridha Karmas " .

> and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant

> things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

> these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

>

> and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

> controversial

> i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as

possible.

> u said " But yes if you are going to

> be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> windows to enter. "

> Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat) and

> hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

>

> once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others as

> buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

> many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help others.

> bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

>

> so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva) and

> those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

> its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see me

> sleeping.

> then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

> later i ll also be awake

> or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u want

me

> to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter how

> much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

>

> and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

> (hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

> so what u said is not right.

>

> have a nice sleep

> Amit

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> > Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-

determined.

> > as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> > but not free will for the major events in my life.

> > Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our

life,

> > over which we do not have control over.

> >

> > people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes again

You

> > are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> > have to be complied with.

> >

> > You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> > but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery

and

> > earn

> > Crores of rupees.

> >

> > Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> > it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> > At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> > RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> > Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> > it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> > because he had taken this upon himself from another

> > native who was suffering. He could also have

> > transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> > Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> > he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> > now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> > in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

> >

> > Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual stalwarts.

> > By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> > Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> > literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> > a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> > petty things and matters.

> >

> > Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> > Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> > now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> > be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> > or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> > it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-realisation

> > we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> > windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " amit " <amittre@> wrote:

> > >

> > > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has touched

me.

> > > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> > knowledge

> > > is still left with astrologers.

> > > and your reply has answered my query.

> > >

> > > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> > significant

> > > in our life is already decided " .

> > > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her past

> life.

> > > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u in

> one

> > > way or other.

> > > nothing is accidental in life.

> > > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know

them

> > > from ur past lives.

> > >

> > > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at the

> exact

> > > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont

attach

> > with

> > > your action. " .

> > >

> > > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by

people

> > who

> > > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not have

> any

> > > significance in life.

> > > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or

not.

> > > but all major things are already predetermined.

> > >

> > > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he used

to

> > say

> > > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was torn

> > apart

> > > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all

the

> > > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > > concentration.

> > > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

> finally

> > > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who helped

> her.

> > > now what abt his will power.

> > > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door

where

> > his

> > > helper was residing.

> > > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in

thousands

> > of

> > > life.

> > >

> > > children will not happen on its own.

> > > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> > >

> > > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my

hand

> > on

> > > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

> question "

> > > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to argue

> with

> > me

> > > u can raise ur hand " .

> > > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought

less.

> > >

> > > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing

things.

> > > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> > >

> > > from my side i am done

> > > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise the

> > > same ? " " "

> > >

> > > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll have

> to

> > > reply to u as per my words.

> > > thanks and regards

> > > Amit

> > >

> > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Amit,

> > > >

> > > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I

agree

> to

> > > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written in

> your

> > > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth as

It

> is

> > > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise

the

> > > > same ?

> > > >

> > > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that every

> > > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is

written

> > in

> > > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to

say ?

> > > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen on

> its

> > > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those

who

> do

> > > not

> > > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > > >

> > > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money one

> > would

> > > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would suffer

> in

> > > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced or

> > > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > > >

> > > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha

Karmas,

> > and

> > > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for which

> > there

> > > is

> > > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined, but

for

> > > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is not

> > > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory of

> karma.

> > > >

> > > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn more

as

> > > > the more seasons you will see.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then that

is

> > > going

> > > > > to happen.

> > > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change it.

> > > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

> encourage

> > > me

> > > > > for a while.

> > > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was written

in

> my

> > > > chart

> > > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create

that

> > > > > situation for me).

> > > > >

> > > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or

indirectly

> > > that

> > > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is the

one

> > > that

> > > > is

> > > > > being searched "

> > > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

> moment

> > i

> > > am

> > > > > getting away from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will attain

> > > > moksha " .

> > > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom of

God

> > > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

> become

> > > > lazy

> > > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free will.

> > > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is predetermined

but

> > > here

> > > > > there is a point.

> > > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> > reaction

> > > > to

> > > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that is

> > > written

> > > > in

> > > > > my chart.

> > > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in my

> > hand.

> > > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail me

> > > > > individually or in group.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it will

> > happen.

> > > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with his

> > guru

> > > he

> > > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving

free

> > > > > discourses.

> > > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than closing a

> eye.

> > > > >

> > > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time

that

> i

> > > pay

> > > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for greater

> > > things.

> > > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that my

> > birth

> > > > time

> > > > > is accurate.

> > > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

> succesful

> > > with

> > > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances

where

> > > > planets

> > > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he do

or

> > > resist

> > > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every 7

> year

> > > > time

> > > > > will be death like for him

> > > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited for

> > death

> > > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > > ego has to die.

> > > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom of

> god "

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that either

he

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > great king or great sage.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has divine

> > powers

> > > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine and

> > > > whenever

> > > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt ramakrsihna

> > growth.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> > achieved

> > > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by ramakrishna )

> and

> > he

> > > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > > >

> > > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > > classic " I

> > > > AM

> > > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh

Nath)

> > > whats

> > > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so that

u

> > try

> > > > ur

> > > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience happen.

> > > > >

> > > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long

mail

> > > > > Amit

> > > > >

> > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

> arguments

> > > on

> > > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a fatalistic

> > > > tool,then

> > > > > it

> > > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will become

> > > akarmanic

> > > > > (Or

> > > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop fruits

in

> > his

> > > > > lap).

> > > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> > spiritual

> > > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

> efforts

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so destiny

> > would

> > > > do

> > > > > it

> > > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have

knowledge

> in

> > > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart, because

that

> > > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all

have

> > to

> > > > make

> > > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha

written

> in

> > > > Your

> > > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

> thinking

> > > that

> > > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

> now " .

> > > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why did I

> > reach

> > > > > here

> > > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you

that " Boy

> > > your

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for making

> > > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always

see

> > the

> > > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than her.

> And

> > a

> > > > Man

> > > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read about

> the

> > > > lives

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all odds ,made

> > > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives in

> > > business

> > > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not show

> much

> > > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods

Grace,

> I

> > > am

> > > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of

gift

> > > > received

> > > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th from

> > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

> remain

> > > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the same

as

> I

> > > > have

> > > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable

with

> > > this

> > > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by action.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " amit "

<amittre@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can

take

> > it

> > > > but

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my time

> chart

> > > > read

> > > > > by

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha.

Well

> > > thats

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties

towards

> > > family

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to spiritual

if

> > you

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential how

> > much

> > > he

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much progress

> You

> > > can

> > > > > > make.

> > > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if

one

> > > really

> > > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and away

> from

> > > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about mines

> when

> > > you

> > > > > come

> > > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

> know,

> > or

> > > > > else

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> > eligible

> > > to

> > > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i can

> make

> > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care of

> for

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in

12th

> > > house.

> > > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

> The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

address from your Internet provider.

>

March 23, 2007

//The recipient must be an " adhikari " (worthy) of the dues.//

That was the icing on the cake.

Best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, Amitabh Shastri

<amitabh_shastri wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskarji,

>

> Thanks for your comments. Would like to continue expressing my

opinion till possible. However, few important facts make this

possible, just naming two of them:-

> 1. Some " rnanubandhana " must exist for the interaction to

continue.

> 2. The recipient must be an " adhikari " (worthy) of the dues.

>

> Regards,

> Amitabh

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote: Dear Amitabhji,

>

> I request you to please take over. He is searching for

> students and not for Teachers or astrologers.

>

> This was a very good post by you, I have liked it

> very much.Every sentence is worth reading and echoes

> my own thoughts and feelings.

>

> best regards,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , Amitabh Shastri

> <amitabh_shastri@> wrote:

> >

> > My apologies for barging into the discussion...cannot resist

> myself...

> >

> > For these readings look at the Karmic Triangle - the fifth

house

> for sanchit karmas; the ninth house for prarabdh karmas and the

first

> house for your karmik (current) karmas.

> >

> > Also remember - Karma heen, bhagya heen i.e. if you do not

work,

> you do not get anything depite it being due to you astrologically.

> >

> > Transfer of karma is an art practised by yogis and tantriks -

> they however, prefer to burn all karmas due to them as soon as

> possible to attain moksha. When time comes, one himself becomes

aware

> (it is deeper than intution) of his likelihood of achieving

moksha -

> this discussion can go on for long without concurrence or reaching

> any conclusions.

> >

> > Interchange of karmas is easier - with help of astrological

> remedies, for instance.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Amitabh

> >

> > amit <amittre@> wrote:

> > Respected Bhaskar sir

> >

> > this time u have taken my free will from me :-)

> > i dont want 2 continue this discussion after u have implied in

last

> > post that astrologers cant be relied upon all the time and good

> > astrologers are also not in good number.

> > but as i have given my words so i will have to reply.

> > so better dont reply to this one if u dont want 2 continue.

> >

> > i never said ramakrishna could not cure his throat cancer(ur

> > assumption)

> > as ramakrishna always used to leave everything on Ma Kali.

> >

> > 2ndly i know ramakrishna said once about vivekananda that he is

one

> > of 7 rishis who take care of this universe and he has taken this

> > birth to help me in spreading my work.

> > but still it does not discount the fact that he was helpless

> against

> > his destiny as was lord Rama when Sita was abducted by ravan.

> >

> > 3rdly at ur age and level of learning u have, you should not

take

> my

> > age into consideration.

> > but still i feel this much free will we have to make our opinion

> > about others.

> >

> > 4th. in my last post i said " all these theories of adridha

Karmas

> is

> > either made by people who believe in destiny " here by destiny i

> mean

> > Luck.

> >

> > but i m confused by ur words.

> > in ur last post u said " As regards to free will, that is

available

> > for adridha Karmas " .

> > and now u r saying " Adridha Karmas are connected to the

significant

> > things of our life,over which we do not have control over. "

> > these 2 are contradictory if my mind is in right condition.

> >

> > and last point which u has raised is highly philosophical n

> > controversial

> > i will no go in detail but try to explain in as few words as

> possible.

> > u said " But yes if you are going to

> > be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> > or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> > it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-

realisation

> > we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> > windows to enter. "

> > Bhaskar sir, buddhism is divided in 2 parts mahayana(big boat)

and

> > hinyana(small boat) just bcoz of what u said above.

> >

> > once one is realized then he has 2 options either to help others

as

> > buddha,mahavira,ramakrishna did or stay silent.

> > many enlightened people dont speak and they dont try to help

others.

> > bcoz they respect the freedom of those who are not enlightened.

> >

> > so those who help others are in mahayana buddhism(boddhisatva)

and

> > those who dont help are in hinyana buddhism(arahtaas).

> > its like u woke up in morning and see beautiful morning n u see

me

> > sleeping.

> > then if u respect my sleep then u ll not wake me up as sooner or

> > later i ll also be awake

> > or u feel experience of this early morning is so good that u

want

> me

> > to share it immediatedly then u ll try to wake me up, no matter

how

> > much i abuse u. u ll try ur best.

> >

> > and sir whether one belongs to boddhisatva(mahayana) or arahats

> > (hinayana) is known when one is awakened or attain enlightenment.

> > so what u said is not right.

> >

> > have a nice sleep

> > Amit

> >

> > , " Bhaskar "

> > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Amit,

> > >

> > > I can continue writing for years, but will try to conclude.

> > > Yes, all the significant things in life are already pre-

> determined.

> > > as You said rightly I have free will to reply your mail or not,

> > > but not free will for the major events in my life.

> > > Adridha Karmas are connected to the significant things of our

> life,

> > > over which we do not have control over.

> > >

> > > people whom you feel attracted or have relations with, yes

again

> You

> > > are right we have connections from past lives, so rinabandhans

> > > have to be complied with.

> > >

> > > You have free will to go and smoke a cigarette or have a beer

> > > but no free will to open a cigarette Factory or beerDistellery

> and

> > > earn

> > > Crores of rupees.

> > >

> > > Befoire commenting on Big names and personalities,

> > > it would be better if we studied about them properly.

> > > At Your age I too was thinking the same about Shri

> > > RamKrishnaParamhansaji, so i do not blame You.

> > > Ramkrishnaji could have easily cured his throat Cancer,

> > > it was baby stuff for him, but he did not. Why ?

> > > because he had taken this upon himself from another

> > > native who was suffering. He could also have

> > > transferred this Cancer to his next Birth, but he did not.

> > > Why ? because he knew that in this life or later

> > > he would have to clear this Karma so better get off with this

> > > now itself. Great people like to finish off their Karmas

> > > in the current birth itself rather then keep them pending.

> > >

> > > Same with swami Vivekanandji or other Great Spiritual

stalwarts.

> > > By the way many people are not aware of the true status of

> > > Swami Vivekanandji. he could really move mountains

> > > literally. he had that much spiritual power. But he lived like

> > > a common man and never used these powers out of turn for

> > > petty things and matters.

> > >

> > > Coming back to what we were supposed to talk originally.

> > > Spirirtualism does not need pre-determination . Start right

> > > now this moment itself. But yes if you are going to

> > > be a great Spiritual master or Great Aghori or Tantrik

> > > or someone who would lead the world spiritually, then

> > > it would be certainly shown in the Chart. But for self-

realisation

> > > we need not look to our chart and search for the doors and

> > > windows to enter. Just action on Yours and My part is needed.

> > >

> > > best wishes,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " amit " <amittre@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > RESPECTED Bhaskar Sir

> > > > i have written respect word in Bold as ur honesty has

touched

> me.

> > > > i know much about my destiny but my aim was to see how much

> > > knowledge

> > > > is still left with astrologers.

> > > > and your reply has answered my query.

> > > >

> > > > but for your information i will say more " anyhing that is

> > > significant

> > > > in our life is already decided " .

> > > > regarding wife,children etc one has to look in to his/her

past

> > life.

> > > > and sir u ll be surprised that most of them are related to u

in

> > one

> > > > way or other.

> > > > nothing is accidental in life.

> > > > people whom u felt attracted in first meeting is bcoz u know

> them

> > > > from ur past lives.

> > > >

> > > > and as lord krishna said to arjuna in geeta

> > > > " if u dont kill kauravas then also their end will come at

the

> > exact

> > > > time. remember u r just a medium for their death. so dont

> attach

> > > with

> > > > your action. " .

> > > >

> > > > and all these theories of adridha Karmas is either made by

> people

> > > who

> > > > believe in destiny or it implies to things which does not

have

> > any

> > > > significance in life.

> > > > like now u have a free will whether to reply to this mail or

> not.

> > > > but all major things are already predetermined.

> > > >

> > > > e.g Vivekananda was very optimistic about will power. he

used

> to

> > > say

> > > > with ur will one can move a mountain.

> > > > 1.but at his time he could not get a job. his sleeper was

torn

> > > apart

> > > > bcoz he tried so hard in job search.

> > > > 2. when ramakrishna was dying from throat cancer he made all

> the

> > > > disciple to sit in a room and remove the throat cancer with

> > > > concentration.

> > > > 3. in chiacgo Vivekananda struggled with cold n hunger and

> > finally

> > > > sat down in front of a house in DESPAIR.

> > > > and remember his guru n from that house a lady came who

helped

> > her.

> > > > now what abt his will power.

> > > > was it a coincidence that vivekananda sat in front of door

> where

> > > his

> > > > helper was residing.

> > > > individual person cant fight with whole universe

> > > > or in one life time we cant change what we have done in

> thousands

> > > of

> > > > life.

> > > >

> > > > children will not happen on its own.

> > > > but i will be just used as a medium.

> > > > Sir, everything significant is happening/predetermined.

> > > >

> > > > once same question was asked to ramana maharishi.

> > > > ramana maharishi said " everything is predetermind "

> > > > one person raised his left hand and said " see i m raising my

> hand

> > > on

> > > > my own, how it is predetermined "

> > > > ramana maharishi said " u raised ur hand in relation to my

> > question "

> > > > and 2ndly u raised ur hand bcoz u had a thought that to

argue

> > with

> > > me

> > > > u can raise ur hand " .

> > > > but thoughts r not in ur control.

> > > > and more over no thought is urs. our true nature is thought

> less.

> > > >

> > > > Sir, its a illusion to us when we think that we are doing

> things.

> > > > actually we are motivaed by desires and thoughts.

> > > > and do we have control over our desires and thoughts??????

> > > >

> > > > from my side i am done

> > > > as u have said " " " How many astrologers can reach the truth

as

> It

> > is

> > > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise

the

> > > > same ? " " "

> > > >

> > > > so please dont reply to this mail, as if u reply then i ll

have

> > to

> > > > reply to u as per my words.

> > > > thanks and regards

> > > > Amit

> > > >

> > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > >

> > > > > What is written in your chart is bound to happen. Okay I

> agree

> > to

> > > > > that till a certain extent. But who knows what is written

in

> > your

> > > > > chart exactly ? How many astrologers can reach the truth

as

> It

> > is

> > > > > meant to be known and also let you know after they realise

> the

> > > > > same ?

> > > > >

> > > > > One more thing You should know. It is not necessary that

every

> > > > > thing written in the chart would happen. One needs efforts

> > > > > coupled with destiny to make it fructify. If mariage is

> written

> > > in

> > > > > your destiny, then would it happen on its own You mean to

> say ?

> > > > > Honeymoon would happen on its own ? Children would happen

on

> > its

> > > > > own ? We will be doing nothing to make all this happen ? So

> > > > > remember good promises are there in every chart, but those

> who

> > do

> > > > not

> > > > > work for it, they would never see those promises fulfilled.

> > > > >

> > > > > What is written actually in your destiny ?

> > > > > Which wife one gets, which mother one gets,how much money

one

> > > would

> > > > > earn in life, and what would be the diseases one would

suffer

> > in

> > > > > life, and also the longevity (Which again can be reduced

or

> > > > > increased -But I will not go into this explanation)

> > > > >

> > > > > As regards to free will, that is available for adridha

> Karmas,

> > > and

> > > > > for dridha karmas one has to bear the consequences for

which

> > > there

> > > > is

> > > > > no respite and the results of which are pre-determined,

but

> for

> > > > > adridha karmas you have plenty of free will, and that is

not

> > > > > predetermined.For that You will have to study the theory

of

> > karma.

> > > > >

> > > > > there is no end to this discussion, and You will learn

more

> as

> > > > > the more seasons you will see.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > > , " amit " <amittre@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respected Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > > may be i am troubling u.

> > > > > > but as long as u will reply i am going to reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1st thing if some thing is written in my chart, then

that

> is

> > > > going

> > > > > > to happen.

> > > > > > its not that your or some one else statement can change

it.

> > > > > > it could happen that your statement may discourage or

> > encourage

> > > > me

> > > > > > for a while.

> > > > > > but then that encouragement or discouragement was

written

> in

> > my

> > > > > chart

> > > > > > (bcoz at that time planets r in that position to create

> that

> > > > > > situation for me).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2ndly. most of religion in world agree directly or

> indirectly

> > > > that

> > > > > > what ever one do to pursue moksha is hindering it.

> > > > > > e.g mundakya unapnishad says " one who is searching is

the

> one

> > > > that

> > > > > is

> > > > > > being searched "

> > > > > > so the moment i start my search for moksha at that very

> > moment

> > > i

> > > > am

> > > > > > getting away from it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > now if u tell me that " its in my destiny that i will

attain

> > > > > moksha " .

> > > > > > then i will become lazy and relaxed.

> > > > > > thats very good Bhaskar sir.

> > > > > > this is the secret of moksha.

> > > > > > be loose and relaxed.

> > > > > > Tao is based upon it.

> > > > > > gautam buddha attain moksha when he was totally relaxed.

> > > > > > jesus says u have to be childlike to reach the kingdom

of

> God

> > > > > > and now u know how relaxed and playful are childrens.

> > > > > > and dont u think that after listening to your words if i

> > become

> > > > > lazy

> > > > > > for then this laziness was written in my chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sir, this whole world is a cosmic body.

> > > > > > i am not seperate nor do i have a individual or free

will.

> > > > > > this world is a unity.

> > > > > > i can have a free will if i am an island. but i am not.

> > > > > > so many forces in world are affecting me.

> > > > > > so what so ever has to happen in my life is

predetermined

> but

> > > > here

> > > > > > there is a point.

> > > > > > WHAT SO EVER WILL HAPPEN TO ME is PRE DETERMINED but my

> > > reaction

> > > > > to

> > > > > > those event is in my hand.

> > > > > > suppose at this moment i am fired from my job then that

is

> > > > written

> > > > > in

> > > > > > my chart.

> > > > > > but my reaction to this is in my hand.

> > > > > > i can take this event postively or negatively that is in

my

> > > hand.

> > > > > > if any one has any objection in this line then plz mail

me

> > > > > > individually or in group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bhaskar sir, if moksha is written in ur chart then it

will

> > > happen.

> > > > > > there are many cases of sudden enlightenment.

> > > > > > may b ur time has come for some encouragement.

> > > > > > there is one person in mumbai " ramesh balsekar "

> > > > > > he was a simple banker but when he came in contact with

his

> > > guru

> > > > he

> > > > > > was enlightened in a year. he is still living and giving

> free

> > > > > > discourses.

> > > > > > his guru attain moksha in 3 years.

> > > > > > moksha is always sudden and its more quicker than

closing a

> > eye.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in ur previous mail u told me i am only 26 and its time

> that

> > i

> > > > pay

> > > > > > attention to my worldly duties

> > > > > > then i will say this is the best time to pursue for

greater

> > > > things.

> > > > > > and i know a bit of astrology so i can guarantee u that

my

> > > birth

> > > > > time

> > > > > > is accurate.

> > > > > > and if u dont mind please give me a chart who became

> > succesful

> > > > with

> > > > > > out any promise in their chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > just to return the favour i am giving u some instances

> where

> > > > > planets

> > > > > > affected life of people who became enlightened.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. UG krishnamurthy(taken from biography of mahesh butt)

> > > > > > one astrologer told UG krishnamurthy that what ever he

do

> or

> > > > resist

> > > > > > he will be married after 3 months.

> > > > > > UG was not interested but after 3 months he was married.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2.Rajneesh(osho): astrologer from varansi told him every

7

> > year

> > > > > time

> > > > > > will be death like for him

> > > > > > at the age of 7 his Grand father died in a bullock cart.

> > > > > > at age of 14 osho went to isolation for 3 days n waited

for

> > > death

> > > > > > at age of 21 osho got enlightened or died.

> > > > > > the word brahmin means twice born.

> > > > > > ego has to die.

> > > > > > jesus says like this " u have to die to reach the kingdom

of

> > god "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. gautam buddha : astrologer told his father that

either

> he

> > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > great king or great sage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. ramakrsihna paramhansa : one astrologer who has

divine

> > > powers

> > > > > > used told ramakrsihna parents that this child is divine

and

> > > > > whenever

> > > > > > he used to pass their house he used to ask abt

ramakrsihna

> > > growth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5. Vivekananda : one month or 3 days before death he had

> > > achieved

> > > > > > samadhi(as the key to samadhi was blocked by

ramakrishna )

> > and

> > > he

> > > > > > looked at panchang to decide the day of his death.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6.Anandamoyi ma from kerala do sani and rahu dosha pooja.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7. some one once asked nisargaata ji maharaj (author of

> > > > classic " I

> > > > > AM

> > > > > > THAT " and he is Nath sampraday founded by Great Gorakh

> Nath)

> > > > whats

> > > > > > the use of all these spiritual practice then he said

> > > > > > " its just to understand that nothing is in ur hand. so

that

> u

> > > try

> > > > > ur

> > > > > > hardest and get frustrated and stop the search "

> > > > > > when one is loose and relax then ultimate experience

happen.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so plz discourage me.

> > > > > > u dont know indirectly u ll be helping me.

> > > > > > thanks and regards and at the same time sorry for a long

> mail

> > > > > > Amit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Amit,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant is true. No

> > arguments

> > > > on

> > > > > > > that. But if this same astrology is used as a

fatalistic

> > > > > tool,then

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > can also become a handicap for a person who will

become

> > > > akarmanic

> > > > > > (Or

> > > > > > > without actions, just waiting for destiny to drop

fruits

> in

> > > his

> > > > > > lap).

> > > > > > > For instance If i tell you that You have a very good

> > > spiritual

> > > > > > > potential to become a Yogi,then You may stop putting

> > efforts

> > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > line, thinking that You HAVE to become a Yogi, so

destiny

> > > would

> > > > > do

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > for you. For doing the opposite one need not have

> knowledge

> > in

> > > > > > > advance of his spiritual promises in the chart,

because

> that

> > > > > > > HAS to be done whether promise is there or not. We all

> have

> > > to

> > > > > make

> > > > > > > ourselves better spiritually with every passing year,

> > > > > > > whether promise there or not in the charts.

> > > > > > > Or for instance if I tell You that you have Moksha

> written

> > in

> > > > > Your

> > > > > > > chart, then you may just spend your life in enjoying

> > thinking

> > > > that

> > > > > > > " I have Moksha anyway, so why to bother, let me enjoy

> > now " .

> > > > > > > When you die and reach hell and ask the Yamaraj why

did I

> > > reach

> > > > > > here

> > > > > > > when my chart promised Moksha ? He will reply you

> that " Boy

> > > > your

> > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > was showing Moksha, but your birth time taken for

making

> > > > > > > your chart was wrong " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A wife who has to remain content in life should always

> see

> > > the

> > > > > > > neighbour who is much below in living standards than

her.

> > And

> > > a

> > > > > Man

> > > > > > > who has to rise in life should always see and read

about

> > the

> > > > > lives

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Great men and businessmen who have against all

odds ,made

> > > > > > > breakthroughs and attained high status in their lives

in

> > > > business

> > > > > > > through their hard work and labour.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For You and me, always think that My Chart does not

show

> > much

> > > > > > > spiritual promise, and I have to create it with Gods

> Grace,

> > I

> > > > am

> > > > > > > going to create it, I surely will and SHALL DO IT.

> > > > > > > Let this be action oriented and not be in the form of

> gift

> > > > > received

> > > > > > > from some previous births good satkarmas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > By the way I have Moksha written in my chart. 12th

from

> > > > > Karakamsha

> > > > > > > lagna is having ketu in 12th from it in Navamsha. If I

> > remain

> > > > > > > happy about it ,then tomorrow Yamarajji may say the

same

> as

> > I

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > mentioned above. I am not going to be just comfortable

> with

> > > > this

> > > > > > > knowledge. I have to try and come towards it, by

action.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " amit "

> <amittre@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar Sir

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Astrology can certainly help a aspirant.

> > > > > > > > if a ordinary person makes this statement then i can

> take

> > > it

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > a astrologer i wont accept it.

> > > > > > > > i will just assume that right time of getting my

time

> > chart

> > > > > read

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > competent astrologer has not come yet.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > otherwise what u said is 100% right.

> > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , " Bhaskar "

> > > > > > > > <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Bunty baba,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You are just 26 years away and talking of Moksha.

> Well

> > > > thats

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > but you should be concentrating on your duties

> towards

> > > > family

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > self, and side by side giving some time to

spiritual

> if

> > > you

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > really keen.

> > > > > > > > > Nobody can know about his own spiritual potential

how

> > > much

> > > > he

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > reach,so how can anybody advise you,how much

progress

> > You

> > > > can

> > > > > > > make.

> > > > > > > > > But I tell you its unlimited. theres no measure if

> one

> > > > really

> > > > > > > tries.

> > > > > > > > > About number of lifetimes lifetimes required and

away

> > from

> > > > > > > > > Moksha, when You progress in your spiritual growth,

> > > > > > > > > You will come to know, also let me know about

mines

> > when

> > > > you

> > > > > > come

> > > > > > > > > to know yours.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Again this knowledge only Self, if realised, would

> > know,

> > > or

> > > > > > else

> > > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > Great Aghori ,or Yogi only can tell you. But again

> > > > > > > > > are we supposed to know this yet ? Or ready to be

> > > eligible

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > recieve

> > > > > > > > > this part of understanding ?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Best wishes,

> > > > > > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , " bunty_trehan "

> > > > > > > > > <amitnitj2000@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Members,

> > > > > > > > > > i wanted to know how much spiritual progess i

can

> > make

> > > in

> > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > life.

> > > > > > > > > > and how many life time i am away from moksha.

> > > > > > > > > > any obstacle or curse which i need to take care

of

> > for

> > > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > development.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > my details are,

> > > > > > > > > > DOB:7th may 1980

> > > > > > > > > > TOB : 16:35pm

> > > > > > > > > > Place : Hissar(haryana)

> > > > > > > > > > Male,software engg.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > kanya lagan,sarvana nakshtra.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > rahu(AK),jupiter(badkesh),mars) and saturn® in

> 12th

> > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > lagnesh merucry with sun in 8th.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > thanks and regards

> > > > > > > > > > Amit

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email

> address from your Internet provider.

> >

March 23, 2007

Dear Amit,

I am just a few years older than you, and I feel the same way. There

is no such thing as free will. God is the only doer, that's the

message of the Gita. Even our efforts are the result of Krishna's

will, and not due to our 'free will.' Even the idea of free will is

due to Krishna's will! We have no independence, no control. That's why

God alone is described as swatantra. The fact that we post here is

also due to His will, which manifests as our personal desire to post

on this MB, and so on.

Regards,

Suresh

March 23, 2007

There is no such thing as free will ?

God is only the doer ?

What rubbish ?

Those who rape girls below 5 years of age,

God is the Doer?

Those who murder people

God is the Doer ?

This is misplaced and misunderstood philosphy from books.

I canm bet You are below 30 years of age and Your father

is till living.

Please Confirm this.

Bhaskar.

, " suresh1511978 "

<suresh1511978 wrote:

>

> Dear Amit,

>

> I am just a few years older than you, and I feel the same way. There

> is no such thing as free will. God is the only doer, that's the

> message of the Gita. Even our efforts are the result of Krishna's

> will, and not due to our 'free will.' Even the idea of free will is

> due to Krishna's will! We have no independence, no control. That's why

> God alone is described as swatantra. The fact that we post here is

> also due to His will, which manifests as our personal desire to post

> on this MB, and so on.

>

> Regards,

> Suresh

>

March 23, 2007

One goes to a beer bar and has a beer

or quarter of whisky.

God is the Doer ?

One goes to a massage parlour and

has ever part of his body

massaged .

God is the Doer ?

One tries to seduce his neighbours wife.

God is the doer ?

Wah Wah.

What great conclusions and observations.

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> There is no such thing as free will ?

> God is only the doer ?

> What rubbish ?

> Those who rape girls below 5 years of age,

> God is the Doer?

> Those who murder people

> God is the Doer ?

>

> This is misplaced and misunderstood philosphy from books.

> I canm bet You are below 30 years of age and Your father

> is till living.

> Please Confirm this.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " suresh1511978 "

> <suresh1511978@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Amit,

> >

> > I am just a few years older than you, and I feel the same way.

There

> > is no such thing as free will. God is the only doer, that's the

> > message of the Gita. Even our efforts are the result of Krishna's

> > will, and not due to our 'free will.' Even the idea of free will

is

> > due to Krishna's will! We have no independence, no control.

That's why

> > God alone is described as swatantra. The fact that we post here is

> > also due to His will, which manifests as our personal desire to

post

> > on this MB, and so on.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Suresh

> >

>

March 24, 2007

Namaskara Bhaskar,

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> There is no such thing as free will ?

> God is only the doer ?

> What rubbish ?

> Those who rape girls below 5 years of age,

> God is the Doer?

> Those who murder people

> God is the Doer ?

Hinduism only considers an independent entity as the " DOER " , which

makes God the only doer. Individual souls, which are dependent,

perform actions as instruments of God, NOT as doers per se. Which

means the rapist in your example gets the phala for his act, even

though God is the only doer in the absolute sense.

> This is misplaced and misunderstood philosphy from books.

> I canm bet You are below 30 years of age and Your father

> is till living.

> Please Confirm this.

Below 30, yes. Dad died when I was 7 months old (young).

Regards,

Suresh

March 24, 2007

Dear Suresh,

Namaskar to you too.

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 5 Shloka 14

" Na Kritatvam Na Karmani Lokasya Srajti Prabhu :

Na Karmaphalasamnyogam Svabhavastu Pravartate "

Translated-

" God determines not the doership nor the doings of men,

nor even their contact with the fruit of actions, but

it is Nature alone that functions. "

I hope that sums up the Conclusion of the argument

and nothing need to be discussed further on this

aspect.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " suresh1511978 "

<suresh1511978 wrote:

>

> Namaskara Bhaskar,

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > There is no such thing as free will ?

> > God is only the doer ?

> > What rubbish ?

> > Those who rape girls below 5 years of age,

> > God is the Doer?

> > Those who murder people

> > God is the Doer ?

>

> Hinduism only considers an independent entity as the " DOER " , which

> makes God the only doer. Individual souls, which are dependent,

> perform actions as instruments of God, NOT as doers per se. Which

> means the rapist in your example gets the phala for his act, even

> though God is the only doer in the absolute sense.

>

> > This is misplaced and misunderstood philosphy from books.

> > I canm bet You are below 30 years of age and Your father

> > is till living.

> > Please Confirm this.

>

> Below 30, yes. Dad died when I was 7 months old (young).

>

> Regards,

> Suresh

>

March 24, 2007

Just to add - the theory of karma (NOT Karma Yoga) is not as simple as it

appears to be... even Yama did not wish to reveal the hows and whys of this to

Nachiketa in Kathopnishad. Rebirth cycles would not have existed. Change, the

only constant is essential for survival of this creation - it comes through the

doers and their free will...

Regards,

Amitabh

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

Dear Suresh,

Namaskar to you too.

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 5 Shloka 14

" Na Kritatvam Na Karmani Lokasya Srajti Prabhu :

Na Karmaphalasamnyogam Svabhavastu Pravartate "

Translated-

" God determines not the doership nor the doings of men,

nor even their contact with the fruit of actions, but

it is Nature alone that functions. "

I hope that sums up the Conclusion of the argument

and nothing need to be discussed further on this

aspect.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " suresh1511978 "

<suresh1511978 wrote:

>

> Namaskara Bhaskar,

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > There is no such thing as free will ?

> > God is only the doer ?

> > What rubbish ?

> > Those who rape girls below 5 years of age,

> > God is the Doer?

> > Those who murder people

> > God is the Doer ?

>

> Hinduism only considers an independent entity as the " DOER " , which

> makes God the only doer. Individual souls, which are dependent,

> perform actions as instruments of God, NOT as doers per se. Which

> means the rapist in your example gets the phala for his act, even

> though God is the only doer in the absolute sense.

>

> > This is misplaced and misunderstood philosphy from books.

> > I canm bet You are below 30 years of age and Your father

> > is till living.

> > Please Confirm this.

>

> Below 30, yes. Dad died when I was 7 months old (young).

>

> Regards,

> Suresh

>

New Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at

the Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

March 24, 2007

Namaskara Bhaskar,

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> " Na Kritatvam Na Karmani Lokasya Srajti Prabhu :

> Na Karmaphalasamnyogam Svabhavastu Pravartate "

>

> Translated-

> " God determines not the doership nor the doings of men,

> nor even their contact with the fruit of actions, but

> it is Nature alone that functions. "

And that nature is under God's control, which makes God the doer and

nature itself His instrument.

> I hope that sums up the Conclusion of the argument

> and nothing need to be discussed further on this

> aspect.

Correct!

Regards,

Suresh

March 24, 2007

//And that nature is under God's control, which makes God the doer and

nature itself His instrument.//

Mr. Laloo Prasad may be the Railway Minister, but he is not in

control of all the trains running across the country ,directly ?

How is he responsible if a train driver drinks two pints of whisky

and then goes for a drive ? Free will has been given to all the

train drivers within certain parameters and they have to use

their discretion. Is it not ?

, " suresh1511978 "

<suresh1511978 wrote:

>

> Namaskara Bhaskar,

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>

> > " Na Kritatvam Na Karmani Lokasya Srajti Prabhu :

> > Na Karmaphalasamnyogam Svabhavastu Pravartate "

> >

> > Translated-

> > " God determines not the doership nor the doings of men,

> > nor even their contact with the fruit of actions, but

> > it is Nature alone that functions. "

>

> And that nature is under God's control, which makes God the doer and

> nature itself His instrument.

>

> > I hope that sums up the Conclusion of the argument

> > and nothing need to be discussed further on this

> > aspect.

>

> Correct!

>

> Regards,

> Suresh

>

March 24, 2007

Well brought out...

Also remember there is something called Maya too which is the creation of

Prakriti – Prakriti is distinct from Purush through Maya itself. Karma are

neither God's creation; nor that of Prakriti or Maya. They are the doing of the

individual out of the choices available to him at the time of his committing the

action. This has purposefully been left by the Creator to test how much more one

must be put through the cycles of rebirths before moksha is to be granted...

distinction is necessary to distinguish the deserving (priceless) from the rest

(not so worthy to worthless)!

Regards,

Amitabh

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

//And that nature is under God's control, which makes God the doer and

nature itself His instrument.//

Mr. Laloo Prasad may be the Railway Minister, but he is not in

control of all the trains running across the country ,directly ?

How is he responsible if a train driver drinks two pints of whisky

and then goes for a drive ? Free will has been given to all the

train drivers within certain parameters and they have to use

their discretion. Is it not ?

, " suresh1511978 "

<suresh1511978 wrote:

>

> Namaskara Bhaskar,

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

>

> > " Na Kritatvam Na Karmani Lokasya Srajti Prabhu :

> > Na Karmaphalasamnyogam Svabhavastu Pravartate "

> >

> > Translated-

> > " God determines not the doership nor the doings of men,

> > nor even their contact with the fruit of actions, but

> > it is Nature alone that functions. "

>

> And that nature is under God's control, which makes God the doer and

> nature itself His instrument.

>

> > I hope that sums up the Conclusion of the argument

> > and nothing need to be discussed further on this

> > aspect.

>

> Correct!

>

> Regards,

> Suresh

>

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