Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 dear pradeep ji thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to share as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all willing seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and blind belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in this group constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open discussion in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very healthy for the progress of this group. the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to astrology so much so that CNN-IBN said this: Mahajan left astrologers bewildered ANI Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54 Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54 Email Email Print Print New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his last on Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D Hinduja Hospital in Mumbai. The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only created a shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers on the wrong foot. A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had predicted that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime ministership after the year 2009. Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once again. " " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in Indian polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009, which will give him a great lift in BJP. " Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that Mahajan had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite fluctuating fortunes till December 2006. " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a period of mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of Jupiter it is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not poised for as good result as in 11th house. " " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would be running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), " Sharma had said. Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had added his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of the country. At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that Mahajan and Advani would continue to " lead the party " . ---- did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he was shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took place, every one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as simple as heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers jumped to say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF PRAMOD " etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when parliament of india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a different date of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama further turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ PRAMOD'S CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's changing hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad or mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future, before such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall take place to find out the authentic birth details. with best wishes arjun , " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Madhu ji > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has reported,a news > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only come on > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of birth time > authentic. > > Dear PanditArjun ji > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have rightly said > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling themselves,by giving > predictions after exit polls . > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from Sreenadh ji > and Madhu ji. > > Kind Regds > Pradeep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Namaste, It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and won't be the last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility. There are very few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close they can read the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of it is what dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and ofcourse myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The conclusion is reached alrrady by the poll catsers. Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers predicted victory for the current president, very close to election time. If astrology is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of residence ? Thats was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had lost the election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need all the authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict whether a person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a serious lack of understanding of basic principles or the principles are not repeatable or both. .... On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: dear pradeep jithanks for your good words which i dont deserve as the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to share as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all willing seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and blind belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in this group constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open discussion in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very healthy for the progress of this group.the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to astrology so much so that CNN-IBN said this: Mahajan left astrologers bewilderedANIPosted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54Email Email Print PrintNew Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his last on Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D Hinduja Hospital in Mumbai.The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only created a shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers on the wrong foot.A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had predicted that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime ministership after the year 2009.Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once again. " " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in Indian polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009, which will give him a great lift in BJP. " Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that Mahajan had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite fluctuating fortunes till December 2006. " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a period of mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of Jupiter it is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not poised for as good result as in 11th house. " " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would be running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), " Sharma had said.Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had added his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of the country.At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that Mahajan and Advani would continue to " lead the party " .----did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he was shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took place, every one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as simple as heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers jumped to say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF PRAMOD " etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when parliament of india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a different date of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama further turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ PRAMOD'S CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's changing hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad or mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future, before such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall take place to find out the authentic birth details.with best wishesarjun , " vijayadas_pradeep " <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:>> Dear Madhu ji> > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has reported,a news> confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only come on> Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of birth time> authentic.> > Dear PanditArjun ji > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have rightly said> some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling themselves,by giving> predictions after exit polls .> > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from Sreenadh ji> and Madhu ji.> > Kind Regds> Pradeep> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 dear panditji agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern " astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or prediction purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a hospital and the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible and invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and other reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives an indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is above or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even though thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these doctors are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores, whenever a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies, there is no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like apollo, several people keep dying. whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take refuge in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired, earned and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or happiness of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that this is what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native and not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the report which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own responsibility, answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " . it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop taking credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail even once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation with his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE IS IN YOUR OWN HANDS " . with best wishes arjun , Panditji <navagraha wrote: > > Namaste, > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and won't be the > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility. There are very > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close they can read > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of it is what > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and ofcourse > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The conclusion is > reached alrrady by the poll catsers. > > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers predicted > victory for the current president, very close to election time. If astrology > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of residence ? Thats > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had lost the > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need all the > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict whether a > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a serious lack of > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not repeatable or > both. > > ... > > > On 5/13/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > > > dear pradeep ji > > > > thanks for your good words which i dont deserve as > > > > the best part of this group is that sreenadh ji is willing to share > > as much as he can from as much as he learnt freely to all willing > > seekers. in other groups, some element of sycophancy and blind > > belief of " because mr. so and so said so " is visible. in this group > > constructive criticism and disagreement to views and open discussion > > in a free but respectable manner is observed which is very healthy > > for the progress of this group. > > > > the entire pramod mahajan issue brought disrepute to astrology so > > much so that CNN-IBN said this: > > > > Mahajan left astrologers bewildered > > ANI > > Posted Wednesday, May 03, 2006 at 18:54 > > Updated Thursday , May 04, 2006 at 12:54 > > Email Email Print Print > > > > New Delhi: BJP General Secretary Pramod Mahajan breathed his last on > > Wednesday afternoon after a 12-day battle for life at P D Hinduja > > Hospital in Mumbai. > > > > The untimely demise of the former Union minister not only created a > > shock wave in political circles but also caught astrologers on the > > wrong foot. > > > > A leading South Indian astrologer, K Gopalakrishnan, had predicted > > that Mahajan would don the mantle of presidency or prime > > ministership after the year 2009. > > > > Gopalakrishnan had said, " Pramod Mahajan will continue to be > > successful in Indian politics, and will get elected once again. " > > > > " He has very good chances of holding the highest post in Indian > > polity - like Prime Minister or the President. " > > > > " Mahajan's powerful Mercury Maha Dasa is unfolding from 2009, which > > will give him a great lift in BJP. " > > > > Another astrologer, Dr Prem Kumar Sharma, had predicted that Mahajan > > had chances of occupying a " good office " in 2007 despite fluctuating > > fortunes till December 2006. > > > > " It was that Rahu from 18-02-2004 to 26-12-2006 would be a period of > > mixed fortunes. This is in 11th house and under aspect of Jupiter it > > is propitious but in Navamsa it is in 9th house and thus not poised > > for as good result as in 11th house. " > > > > " But this period would lay foundation for him to occupy a good > > office in the years 2007 to 2013 during these years he would be > > running Saturn-Jupiter, Merc-Merc, Merc-Ketu, Merc-Ven (1/3), " > > Sharma had said. > > > > Besides the astrologers, former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee had added > > his own twist when he endorsed Mahajan as a future leader of the > > country. > > > > At a public speech, Vajpayee had enigmatically said that Mahajan and > > Advani would continue to " lead the party " . > > ---- > > > > did any one predicted that mahajan would be SHOT AT before he was > > shot by his brother. NO. once after the shooting took place, every > > one was betting only on whether he survives or not i.e. as simple as > > heads or tails 50:50. hence all fame hungry astrologers jumped to > > say " I READ HIS CHART " " I KNOW OR I HAVE THE REAL CHART OF PRAMOD " > > etc. my humble submission to all of them is that when parliament of > > india and PTI which is the highest body is showing a different date > > of birth, how can they disbelive the government. the drama further > > turned comic when someone said 'AN ASTROLOGER WHO READ PRAMOD'S > > CHART GAVE ME THESE DETAILS " . so with each astrologer's changing > > hands, the birth date (1948 or 1949) and the place (hyderabad or > > mahaboobnagar) kept changing and so are lagnas. in future, before > > such pubic predictions are made, first a discussion shall take place > > to find out the authentic birth details. > > > > with best wishes > > arjun > > , " vijayadas_pradeep " > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Madhu ji > > > > > > Congrats for prediction regarding VS.Today Asianet has reported,a > > news > > > confirming this,though the offcial announcement will only come on > > > Monday,after the State committee meeting.Is the source of birth > > time > > > authentic. > > > > > > Dear PanditArjun ji > > > Congrats for Jayalalitha related prediction.As you have rightly > > said > > > some astrologers, on other lists,are belittling themselves,by > > giving > > > predictions after exit polls . > > > > > > Its also educative to read the posts regarding Prashna from > > Sreenadh ji > > > and Madhu ji. > > > > > > Kind Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Dear Panditji, Arjunji, I don't know which of these messages to appreciate more! - I feel like reading them again and again. ==> > Now why do we need all the > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict > whether a person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a > serious lack of understanding of basic principles or the principles > are not repeatable or both. <== Dear Panditji, I think it is the " serious lack of understanding of basic principles " . If we are not sure about the basics how can we proceed further - that is why a serious look back into the basics is a necessity. Only the restructuring of the whole of astrology, based on the views of the Rishis itself, is need of the moment, I think. May be only that can save astrology from its current crisis. It is in this direction we should work - I feel. ====> > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern " > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or > prediction purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically > with every ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to > a hospital and the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of > various visible and invisible parameters and several blood, urine, > xray, scan and other reports are generated. based on these > reports, the doctor gives an indication that too based on a fixed > theory that if the count is above or below xxx, the patient is > suffering from this or that. <=== Sounds beautiful!! Making all those various Ayanamsas, D-charts, Dasas everything or thousands of imaginary inventions, appear correct and scientific!!! ) Though I love that argument style, I hope you are not supporting all those varied numerous systems which does not find support in astrological classics. ===> > even though thousands of private medical colleges collect more than > a million rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then > these doctors are on the prowl to recover their million by earning > crores, whenever a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient > to sign a declaration that if the operation fails and the patient > dies, there is no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best > hospitals like apollo, several people keep dying. > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take > refuge in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired, > earned and so on. <=== So it seems that, astrologers escape, " sign a declaration " , is the Karmic theory. ) It is a good mode of escape and is functioning very well. ==> > if these astrologers attribute the suffering or happiness > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. <== I do agree. But they won't let you run away with that argument, because Prasnamarga and Leghu Jataka supports their argument. Haven't you heard the sloka, 'Poorva janma janitam puratana karmam dayvam iti samprachakshte' [The previous Karma is called luck. Or translate in other words, 'The Karma of the previous birth is called Bhagya (Destiny)]. ) Mihira in Leghu Jataka says - " Yedupachitamanya janmani subhasubham tasya karmana panktim Vyenjayati sastram etat tamasi dravyani deepaiva " Meaning the, Horoscope shows the result of good and bad Karma done in previous birth, like a lamp that shows things in darkness. Dear Arjunji, what I wanted to say is that, the Karma theory that was incorporated to astrology around the 6th century had provided the supporters of Karma theory a lots and lots of slokas, to defend their arguments. They will say that astrology is itself is the one that shows the works/results of Karmic theory. They will say that even though astrology has no role in controlling the 'laws of karma', astrology can show as the effects of the working of that Karma. Eg: watch does not control time, but shows time. So your above argument is not the one, with out a loophole, though I would love to support it. ===> > an astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that > this is what the chart says based on the details furnished by the > native and not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it > is the report which says and not the pathologist. <=== Yes, it is another good escape mechanism, but reflects truth as well. So I would like to be in this category. A descent escape!! ==> > by trying to own responsibility, answerability, accountability and > tall claim for getting name and fame, astrologers often use the woods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " . <== Poor fellows! They can't help the urge of the ego. ==> > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop taking > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail even > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation > with his own hands. > truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE IS IN YOUR OWN > HANDS " . <=== Yes. Better, dear astrologers your respect is in your own hands, and if you want to keep it " don't take the responsibility " !!!!! Dear Arjunji, I was just enjoying your mail, and was reading a line or two in between the lines. But yes, actually I agree with your arguments and usually never try to say that 'I predicted'. All we can do is try to use the tools and methods provided by the gurus in the most efficient way, who knows what would be the outcome! The logical methods we follow, make bring success to us at times, and at times failure!!! So it is better to put the blame on them, though actually almost 50% of the blame should go to us as well, who are trying to use them without enough verification. But it is also right that 100% verification is not possible, since at any condition it is impossible to predict future accurately and completely, due to actual intervention of chance. Love, Sreenadh , " panditarjun2004 " <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear panditji > > agreeing with your concluding remark, my understanding of " modern " > astrology (with hundreds of formating styles and dasas) or prediction > purely based on a horoscope (which changes drastrically with every > ayanamsha) is just like a pathology. a patient goes to a hospital and > the doctor first asks him to do a CHECK-UP of various visible and > invisible parameters and several blood, urine, xray, scan and other > reports are generated. based on these reports, the doctor gives an > indication that too based on a fixed theory that if the count is above > or below xxx, the patient is suffering from this or that. even though > thousands of private medical colleges collect more than a million > rupees as donation just for studying medicine and then these doctors > are on the prowl to recover their million by earning crores, whenever > a patient is operated, the doctor asks the patient to sign a > declaration that if the operation fails and the patient dies, there is > no fault of the doctor. every day even in the best hospitals like > apollo, several people keep dying. > > whenever predcitions fail, most of the modern astrologers take refuge > in karmic theory that too of different karmas like acquired, earned > and so on. if these astrologers attribute the suffering or happiness > of a native to karmic theory, he or astrology has no role, for the > karma theory works on its own laws of karma. in such cases, an > astrologer shall admit while making the prediction itself that this is > what the chart says based on the details furnished by the native and > not " I PREDICT " . when a pathological report comes, it is the report > which says and not the pathologist. by trying to own responsibility, > answerability, accountability and tall claim for getting name and > fame, astrologers often use the wods " I PREDICTED " or " I SAID SO " . > > it is high time astrologers stop making tall claims and stop taking > credit for their predictions so that if their predictions fail even > once, people brand him a failure and he spoils his own reputation with > his own hands. truly the golden saying comes true " YOUR FUTURE IS IN > YOUR OWN HANDS " . > > with best wishes > arjun > , Panditji > <navagraha@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > It is not the first time this kind of thing has happened and won't > be the > > last. This is the reason astrology has very low credibility. There > are very > > few who actually do predictions. Once the election is close they can > read > > the opinion polls and give their astro lingo reading. Most of it is what > > dasha is the native running or what planet is where in rashi and > ofcourse > > myriads of divisions projected as divisional charts. The conclusion is > > reached alrrady by the poll catsers. > > > > Like in the presidential election, many well known astrologers predicted > > victory for the current president, very close to election time. If > astrology > > is such a wonderful science, can we not predict change of residence > ? Thats > > was the point I was harping on in the US elections. If bush had lost the > > election, he would have moved back to Texas. Now why do we need all the > > authentic horoscopes of all the challengers ? Can we not predict > whether a > > person will change residence ? If we can not, there is a serious lack of > > understanding of basic principles or the principles are not > repeatable or > > both. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Param Adarniye Dr. Upadhyaye jee,Sa'adar PranaamPlease accept my (belated) heartiest congratulations on the occassion of second anniversary of this esteemed group. You are following the path of Lok Kalyan shown by Pt. Rup Chand Joshi jee in the truest sence. I am a great fan of your knowledge and devotion towards the great science of Lal Kitab from the day one, and I gained a lot by reading your mails and articles in various forums. Your writings always gave me confidence and strenghth to do better in this field. I must say that your stamina of answering dozens of mails on the daily basis is just amazing, and your selflessness is second to none. I am fortunate to have the privileged of talking to you over the phone a couple of times. Thousands of of Lal Kitab devotees will always need guidance and blessings of a true scholar like you. I pray to Param Pita Parmeshwar to bless you with strength, good health and a long life. RespectfullyYograj Prabhakar , "kirpallsingh" <kps1945 wrote:>> Dear sir,> Congratulations on the first anniversary.We sincerely hope you will > continue the great work and your opponents do not get to hack ur > computers again.> Kirpall Singh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Sir, i have recently joined the group. I have gone through the mails from members and your advise. It is creditable. With this you not only reach out to the needy ones but also will help our tradtional science of astrology. I too want to learn about this and sure will be benifited as a biggener. Kewal Salwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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