Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru > Nisargadatta > Friday, November 27, 2009 6:32 PM > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not an answer you seek. > > > > > You are hoping to validate the existence > > > > > of your own separateness. > > > > > You are attracted to non-duality > > > > > because you think that it will improve > > > > > your perceived circumstances. > > > > > That's alright. > > > > > Every sense of self does that. > > > > > Every searcher is looking for > > > > > something to relieve the fear > > > > > and pain that comes with being > > > > > an identified entity. > > > > > If you set your sails in this belief > > > > > system.....you will come to the edge > > > > > of the known world. > > > > > And the outcome will not be anything > > > > > close to what you imagined. > > > > > > > > > > Start your journey knowing that no one...... > > > > > anywhere......knows anymore than you do > > > > > right now about all things spiritual. > > > > > > > > > > It's all make believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bon voyage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the acknowledgment that I am basically living a life that interacts > > > > with itself will lead me on different journey? Everything I touch, > > > > feel, taste, see is nothing more than my mind wanting to engage with > > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup. > > > That's about it. > > > Except the there is no 'I " doing it. > > > The I amness appears within that process. > > > > > > > > > It's funny as hell when that is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > So does more harmony arise once this is known or do I still have to deal > > with my mind wanting to put assholes in the " outside world " that I have to > > deal with day to day? > > > > Everything continues as before the Understanding. > But now there is no persona in the center of the storm taking credit or > blame. > Assholes continue the play their part.......but once personal volition is > factored out of the conceptual dream of separation they are seen in an > entirely different light. > Mostly they are simply seen as frightened or wounded. > Your own reaction to them becomes tempered with a deep understanding that > they are reacting to the pain that they have endured. > Life beats the hell out of everybody. > Sometimes you reach out......sometimes you turn away. > .......knowing that your own reactions are also determined by your encoded > mnemonic tapestry. > And.......it all becomes the most delightful-thrilling open-ended journey > into The Great-Unknown-Unknowable. > One finds its self surfing the moment.....falling fast into What's Next. > > toombaru > > I completely resonate with the above. > -geo- > Careful......when the resonance reaches a certain pitch.....the walls comeatumblindown. :-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru > Nisargadatta > Friday, November 27, 2009 8:20 PM > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, November 27, 2009 6:32 PM > > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not an answer you seek. > > > > > > You are hoping to validate the existence > > > > > > of your own separateness. > > > > > > You are attracted to non-duality > > > > > > because you think that it will improve > > > > > > your perceived circumstances. > > > > > > That's alright. > > > > > > Every sense of self does that. > > > > > > Every searcher is looking for > > > > > > something to relieve the fear > > > > > > and pain that comes with being > > > > > > an identified entity. > > > > > > If you set your sails in this belief > > > > > > system.....you will come to the edge > > > > > > of the known world. > > > > > > And the outcome will not be anything > > > > > > close to what you imagined. > > > > > > > > > > > > Start your journey knowing that no one...... > > > > > > anywhere......knows anymore than you do > > > > > > right now about all things spiritual. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all make believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bon voyage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the acknowledgment that I am basically living a life that > > > > > interacts > > > > > with itself will lead me on different journey? Everything I touch, > > > > > feel, taste, see is nothing more than my mind wanting to engage with > > > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup. > > > > That's about it. > > > > Except the there is no 'I " doing it. > > > > The I amness appears within that process. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's funny as hell when that is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > So does more harmony arise once this is known or do I still have to deal > > > with my mind wanting to put assholes in the " outside world " that I have > > > to > > > deal with day to day? > > > > > > > Everything continues as before the Understanding. > > But now there is no persona in the center of the storm taking credit or > > blame. > > Assholes continue the play their part.......but once personal volition is > > factored out of the conceptual dream of separation they are seen in an > > entirely different light. > > Mostly they are simply seen as frightened or wounded. > > Your own reaction to them becomes tempered with a deep understanding that > > they are reacting to the pain that they have endured. > > Life beats the hell out of everybody. > > Sometimes you reach out......sometimes you turn away. > > .......knowing that your own reactions are also determined by your encoded > > mnemonic tapestry. > > And.......it all becomes the most delightful-thrilling open-ended journey > > into The Great-Unknown-Unknowable. > > One finds its self surfing the moment.....falling fast into What's Next. > > > > toombaru > > > > I completely resonate with the above. > > -geo- > > > > Careful......when the resonance reaches a certain pitch.....the walls > comeatumblindown. > > :-) > > toombaru > > Ohhh...master toomba....I can see the light...lets dance...lets dance.... > -geo- > We can't dance in this oneness. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 - toombaru Nisargadatta Friday, November 27, 2009 6:32 PM Re: What is the point? Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3 wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It is not an answer you seek. > > > > You are hoping to validate the existence > > > > of your own separateness. > > > > You are attracted to non-duality > > > > because you think that it will improve > > > > your perceived circumstances. > > > > That's alright. > > > > Every sense of self does that. > > > > Every searcher is looking for > > > > something to relieve the fear > > > > and pain that comes with being > > > > an identified entity. > > > > If you set your sails in this belief > > > > system.....you will come to the edge > > > > of the known world. > > > > And the outcome will not be anything > > > > close to what you imagined. > > > > > > > > Start your journey knowing that no one...... > > > > anywhere......knows anymore than you do > > > > right now about all things spiritual. > > > > > > > > It's all make believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bon voyage. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > So the acknowledgment that I am basically living a life that interacts > > > with itself will lead me on different journey? Everything I touch, > > > feel, taste, see is nothing more than my mind wanting to engage with > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > Yup. > > That's about it. > > Except the there is no 'I " doing it. > > The I amness appears within that process. > > > > > > It's funny as hell when that is seen. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > So does more harmony arise once this is known or do I still have to deal > with my mind wanting to put assholes in the " outside world " that I have to > deal with day to day? > Everything continues as before the Understanding. But now there is no persona in the center of the storm taking credit or blame. Assholes continue the play their part.......but once personal volition is factored out of the conceptual dream of separation they are seen in an entirely different light. Mostly they are simply seen as frightened or wounded. Your own reaction to them becomes tempered with a deep understanding that they are reacting to the pain that they have endured. Life beats the hell out of everybody. Sometimes you reach out......sometimes you turn away. ........knowing that your own reactions are also determined by your encoded mnemonic tapestry. And.......it all becomes the most delightful-thrilling open-ended journey into The Great-Unknown-Unknowable. One finds its self surfing the moment.....falling fast into What's Next. toombaru I completely resonate with the above. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 - toombaru Nisargadatta Friday, November 27, 2009 8:20 PM Re: What is the point? Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru > Nisargadatta > Friday, November 27, 2009 6:32 PM > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not an answer you seek. > > > > > You are hoping to validate the existence > > > > > of your own separateness. > > > > > You are attracted to non-duality > > > > > because you think that it will improve > > > > > your perceived circumstances. > > > > > That's alright. > > > > > Every sense of self does that. > > > > > Every searcher is looking for > > > > > something to relieve the fear > > > > > and pain that comes with being > > > > > an identified entity. > > > > > If you set your sails in this belief > > > > > system.....you will come to the edge > > > > > of the known world. > > > > > And the outcome will not be anything > > > > > close to what you imagined. > > > > > > > > > > Start your journey knowing that no one...... > > > > > anywhere......knows anymore than you do > > > > > right now about all things spiritual. > > > > > > > > > > It's all make believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bon voyage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the acknowledgment that I am basically living a life that > > > > interacts > > > > with itself will lead me on different journey? Everything I touch, > > > > feel, taste, see is nothing more than my mind wanting to engage with > > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup. > > > That's about it. > > > Except the there is no 'I " doing it. > > > The I amness appears within that process. > > > > > > > > > It's funny as hell when that is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > So does more harmony arise once this is known or do I still have to deal > > with my mind wanting to put assholes in the " outside world " that I have > > to > > deal with day to day? > > > > Everything continues as before the Understanding. > But now there is no persona in the center of the storm taking credit or > blame. > Assholes continue the play their part.......but once personal volition is > factored out of the conceptual dream of separation they are seen in an > entirely different light. > Mostly they are simply seen as frightened or wounded. > Your own reaction to them becomes tempered with a deep understanding that > they are reacting to the pain that they have endured. > Life beats the hell out of everybody. > Sometimes you reach out......sometimes you turn away. > .......knowing that your own reactions are also determined by your encoded > mnemonic tapestry. > And.......it all becomes the most delightful-thrilling open-ended journey > into The Great-Unknown-Unknowable. > One finds its self surfing the moment.....falling fast into What's Next. > > toombaru > > I completely resonate with the above. > -geo- > Careful......when the resonance reaches a certain pitch.....the walls comeatumblindown. :-) toombaru Ohhh...master toomba....I can see the light...lets dance...lets dance.... -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, November 27, 2009 6:32 PM > > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not an answer you seek. > > > > > > You are hoping to validate the existence > > > > > > of your own separateness. > > > > > > You are attracted to non-duality > > > > > > because you think that it will improve > > > > > > your perceived circumstances. > > > > > > That's alright. > > > > > > Every sense of self does that. > > > > > > Every searcher is looking for > > > > > > something to relieve the fear > > > > > > and pain that comes with being > > > > > > an identified entity. > > > > > > If you set your sails in this belief > > > > > > system.....you will come to the edge > > > > > > of the known world. > > > > > > And the outcome will not be anything > > > > > > close to what you imagined. > > > > > > > > > > > > Start your journey knowing that no one...... > > > > > > anywhere......knows anymore than you do > > > > > > right now about all things spiritual. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all make believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bon voyage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the acknowledgment that I am basically living a life that interacts > > > > > with itself will lead me on different journey? Everything I touch, > > > > > feel, taste, see is nothing more than my mind wanting to engage with > > > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup. > > > > That's about it. > > > > Except the there is no 'I " doing it. > > > > The I amness appears within that process. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's funny as hell when that is seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > So does more harmony arise once this is known or do I still have to deal > > > with my mind wanting to put assholes in the " outside world " that I have to > > > deal with day to day? > > > > > > > Everything continues as before the Understanding. > > But now there is no persona in the center of the storm taking credit or > > blame. > > Assholes continue the play their part.......but once personal volition is > > factored out of the conceptual dream of separation they are seen in an > > entirely different light. > > Mostly they are simply seen as frightened or wounded. > > Your own reaction to them becomes tempered with a deep understanding that > > they are reacting to the pain that they have endured. > > Life beats the hell out of everybody. > > Sometimes you reach out......sometimes you turn away. > > .......knowing that your own reactions are also determined by your encoded > > mnemonic tapestry. > > And.......it all becomes the most delightful-thrilling open-ended journey > > into The Great-Unknown-Unknowable. > > One finds its self surfing the moment.....falling fast into What's Next. > > > > toombaru > > > > I completely resonate with the above. > > -geo- > > > > > > > Careful......when the resonance reaches a certain pitch.....the walls comeatumblindown. > > > > :-) > > > > > > toombaru posh! no walls there ever were. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3 wrote: > > I had a question that hopefully some of you could help answer: > > Do we have control over what we are seeing outside ourselves? > > When I think of the teachings of Jesus and him saying, " You can do all these things and more. " (referring to his miracles) it makes me think that we somehow have control over what we are witnessing. That we can change things with our minds. We can see a mountain we don't like and make it disappear just by thinking it. > > However, when I read some of Nisargatta's teachings, it comes across as being, " there is nothing to learn, there is nothing to do, there is nothing to be, just keep your eyes open and see. " > > This way of thinking comes across as life being similar to a character in a video game where no points are accumulated. The character doesn't need to kill bad guys or collect coins or go to another level, etc. He can do whatever he wants, explore new sites and sounds and people, etc. > > Even more so, you aren't the one using the controller to play the character on the screen, " someone " else is. You are simply sitting in front of the screen, watching the character from his perspective (similar to first person shooter games), you don't have the controller in your hands, and you " witness " all the adventures that he goes on. > > So what is your point of view on this? And please do not answer with a non-answer. You know who you are. " The unborn cannot know the born " , " There is no you, there is only the Absolute. " " There is nothing, yet everything " , etc. > P: Anyone lost in the forest of words can spend a lifetime hunting down concepts such as inside and outside, free will and predestination, or cause and effect. The important thing to realize is that one is lost in a verbal forest, and that there is no end to concept polishing and clarification. Once out of the forest, the mind grows silent and sees directly that the dreamer and the dream are one. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > I had a question that hopefully some of you could help answer: > > > > Do we have control over what we are seeing outside ourselves? > > > > When I think of the teachings of Jesus and him saying, " You can do all these things and more. " (referring to his miracles) it makes me think that we somehow have control over what we are witnessing. That we can change things with our minds. We can see a mountain we don't like and make it disappear just by thinking it. > > > > However, when I read some of Nisargatta's teachings, it comes across as being, " there is nothing to learn, there is nothing to do, there is nothing to be, just keep your eyes open and see. " > > > > This way of thinking comes across as life being similar to a character in a video game where no points are accumulated. The character doesn't need to kill bad guys or collect coins or go to another level, etc. He can do whatever he wants, explore new sites and sounds and people, etc. > > > > Even more so, you aren't the one using the controller to play the character on the screen, " someone " else is. You are simply sitting in front of the screen, watching the character from his perspective (similar to first person shooter games), you don't have the controller in your hands, and you " witness " all the adventures that he goes on. > > > > So what is your point of view on this? And please do not answer with a non-answer. You know who you are. " The unborn cannot know the born " , " There is no you, there is only the Absolute. " " There is nothing, yet everything " , etc. > > > > P: Anyone lost in the forest of words can spend > a lifetime hunting down concepts such as inside > and outside, free will and predestination, or > cause and effect. The important thing to realize > is that one is lost in a verbal forest, and that > there is no end to concept polishing and clarification. > > Once out of the forest, the mind grows silent and > sees directly that the dreamer and the dream are one. > > Pete the unborn-undead haunt the illusory forests.. without a word being uttered. in the uncreeping world of the never having been... beyond the polka dot door of despair. not even oneness applies. it's hard to believe or accept.. because this is not of believing or acceptance. IT's not of anything at all. Silence exists NOT where sound is unknown. " oneness " is a concept... implying the more-or-less than one in comparison. faulty faulty. be where all oneness vanishes. THAT art THOU. don't believe it. " you don't have to " believe " that " you " are... to " be " as a phantom zombie-field. how much more so is TRUTH as: " YES! IT IS...THIS..OF COURSE " ! without question..wonder..answer..comment. thus it is so. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3 wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > The unambiguous answer is " yes – most definitely. " Are you satisfied? You should be! Your own teacher says: > > > > " blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed " > > > > If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. > > > > If not, what you call outside yourself is actually entirely within yourself. Although you look at an object (which might be there - or might be a dream) you are in fact creating a representation of it within your mind using bits of filtered information. This is why you only see part of the available data. You will normally only see a fraction of the outside surface, a fraction of the light frequencies and a fraction of its lifespan. And this pattern of vagueness is repeated for all the lesser senses. > > > > Now you could argue all day about whether that object actually exists. I like to think of that question as being rather subtle. Just as you cannot take a 5 year old and teach them calculus without first giving them the fundamentals of basic calculation, so it would appear to be with other subjects -- including the nature of the self and the universe. As only what is truely within ourselves can be immediately, directly and entirely perceived it seems natural that this is where the fundamentals of certainty start. > > > > Not sure how to interpret this first part of your post: > > " If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. " Don't forget that he became who he was because he had faith in his guru. Verbal reasoning will only go so far. > > I guess what I'm getting at is did Nisargadatta feel he had a choice or control in living the life he did? We could talk all day about his philosophy of what reality is and what it isn't, but we know he had a wife, we know he had children, we know he sold cigarettes and we know he visited his " teacher " 's grave on a daily basis. > > While he preached " he never was and neither are we " , he still carried out what most of us perceive as being a life. He awoke in the morning, took a shit, took a shower, ate, interacted with others, etc. > In such a world anyone would be miserable. To wake up, to wash, to eat, to talk, to sleep again -- what a mess! These things just occur, as if on a cinema screen. There is no desire, ownership nor effort. -M > I remember reading about one instance where he was talking about his " death " and how he felt like clapping because he was happy he accomplished his " goal " . Was his " goal " to simply realize that what he saw on the outside was just a reflection of what was on the inside? That in reality, his whole life was just to interact with himself/its self? > > Quote- " If not, what you call outside yourself is actually entirely within yourself. Although you look at an object (which might be there - or might be a dream) you are in fact creating a representation of it within your mind using bits of filtered information. " -methusalum > > So, in that realm of thinking, if what I see on the outside is a reflection of my mind's thoughts, desires, fears, etc., the way to " change " the outer is to acknowledge that what I am seeing represents my current state of mind? " Making peace " with any strife I come upon on the outside, helps me to acknowledge that I, in fact, am making peace with myself. You talk of making peace like it requires an act of creation or a compromise. Understand that you created the strife -- and stop perpectually creating the same. -M > > For example, someone who is living what we would call " a life of hell " where everything seems " horrible " is simply that person's state of mind that he views everything as being separate and everything sucks and he is interacting with what reflects that. He can " change " the dream or make it " better " by realizing his own mind and way of thinking is in fact the cause of his " living hell " . > > Is that what you mean, methusalum? > I dare say he could make his dream better, but why not stop dreaming. He seems to be grasping for a better life and running from a worse one. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and unchangeable, you must leave the world with its pains and pleasures behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote: > > > > I dare say he could make his dream better, but why not stop dreaming. He seems to be grasping for a better life and running from a worse one. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and unchangeable, you must leave the world with its pains and pleasures behind you. > ....And that is something every *spiritual teacher* that has ever (or is or will) walked the face of the earth has written or spoken. It is the absolute alpha and omega of human misery. To want something that is unattainable-- " to leave the world with its pains and pleasures behind you " . I am the world. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The unambiguous answer is " yes – most definitely. " Are you satisfied? You should be! Your own teacher says: > > > > > > " blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed " > > > > > > If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. > > > > > > If not, what you call outside yourself is actually entirely within yourself. Although you look at an object (which might be there - or might be a dream) you are in fact creating a representation of it within your mind using bits of filtered information. This is why you only see part of the available data. You will normally only see a fraction of the outside surface, a fraction of the light frequencies and a fraction of its lifespan. And this pattern of vagueness is repeated for all the lesser senses. > > > > > > Now you could argue all day about whether that object actually exists. I like to think of that question as being rather subtle. Just as you cannot take a 5 year old and teach them calculus without first giving them the fundamentals of basic calculation, so it would appear to be with other subjects -- including the nature of the self and the universe. As only what is truely within ourselves can be immediately, directly and entirely perceived it seems natural that this is where the fundamentals of certainty start. > > > > > > > Not sure how to interpret this first part of your post: > > > > " If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. " > > Don't forget that he became who he was because he had faith in his guru. Verbal reasoning will only go so far. (.b b.b.) this entire thread is without merit. the above is an imaginary counting: of imaginary angels on imaginary pinheads. " Don't forget that he became who he was because.. he had faith in his guru. Verbal reasoning will only go so far. " ??? 1. there is no " who " which anyone was or which became anything. 2. " forgetting " is not a requirement. 3. faith is adding legs to a snake..a delusion of grandeur. 4. " verbal reasoning " doesn't go anywhere.. ....no further than fanciful philosophy or.. the holding and expressing of silly belief(s) like the above. > > I guess what I'm getting at is did Nisargadatta feel he had a choice or control in living the life he did? We could talk all day about his philosophy of what reality is and what it isn't, but we know he had a wife, we know he had children, we know he sold cigarettes and we know he visited his " teacher " 's grave on a daily basis. > > > > While he preached " he never was and neither are we " , he still carried out what most of us perceive as being a life. He awoke in the morning, took a shit, took a shower, ate, interacted with others, etc. > > > > In such a world anyone would be miserable. To wake up, to wash, to eat, to talk, to sleep again -- what a mess! These things just occur, as if on a cinema screen. There is no desire, ownership nor effort. > -M > > > I remember reading about one instance where he was talking about his " death " and how he felt like clapping because he was happy he accomplished his " goal " . Was his " goal " to simply realize that what he saw on the outside was just a reflection of what was on the inside? That in reality, his whole life was just to interact with himself/its self? > > > > Quote- " If not, what you call outside yourself is actually entirely within yourself. Although you look at an object (which might be there - or might be a dream) you are in fact creating a representation of it within your mind using bits of filtered information. " -methusalum > > > > So, in that realm of thinking, if what I see on the outside is a reflection of my mind's thoughts, desires, fears, etc., the way to " change " the outer is to acknowledge that what I am seeing represents my current state of mind? " Making peace " with any strife I come upon on the outside, helps me to acknowledge that I, in fact, am making peace with myself. > > > You talk of making peace like it requires an act of creation or a compromise. Understand that you created the strife -- and stop perpectually creating the same. > -M > > > > > For example, someone who is living what we would call " a life of hell " where everything seems " horrible " is simply that person's state of mind that he views everything as being separate and everything sucks and he is interacting with what reflects that. He can " change " the dream or make it " better " by realizing his own mind and way of thinking is in fact the cause of his " living hell " . > > > > Is that what you mean, methusalum? > > > > I dare say he could make his dream better, but why not stop dreaming. He seems to be grasping for a better life and running from a worse one. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and unchangeable, you must leave the world with its pains and pleasures behind you. (.b b.b.) no dream is better or worse. they all are simply avoidance. don't bother leaving this world with imagined pains and pleasures. (as if " you " could anyway) enjoy eating and sleeping and sexing and having those good shits. there is nothing else for " you " . dreaming on about a " better world' is just more craziness. it's perpetuating the ignorance and folly of Suffering. " you " 'll (both) get over it. neither of " you " have a choice. it's not " your " destiny...it's what is. relax dudes. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 > > > > " sameness is a concept. > > as is " diversity " . > > non-duality excludes the possibility of either/or..both/neither.. > > do not rely on such silly notions. > > " you " are nothing more than such false notion. > > it's a self created and self perpetuating trap. > > and unbelievably there is no " self " > > who you gonna call? > > > .b b.b. > > > To say that one is a silly false notion is saying that they exist.......but as a silly false notion. I would suggest that they have no existential reality......period. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru > > > Nisargadatta > > > Friday, November 27, 2009 2:03 PM > > > Re: What is the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Now you could argue all day about whether that object actually exists. I > > > > like to think of that question as being rather subtle. > > > > -methus- > > > > > > > > > > A " mountain " or a " river " has no separate existential reality outside of the > > > conceptual mind. > > > > > > If " objects " have no separate reality......how substantial is the repository > > > of the conceptual construct? > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > You are not seeing. The conceptual mind has some existencial reality? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > As much as your dreams at night. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > is this to say that it is your belief that a nonentity.. > > posesses the capability of " dreaming " ? > > and that furthermore those dreams have no existential reality.. > > and are derived from the nonexistent mind... > > of the unsubstantial " dreamer " which by another " name " .. > > is designated as the nonexistent " entity " ? > > or what are " you " trying to say? > > doesn't matter. > > " you " nor the " dreaming " nor " i " the querying creature " .. > > have any substantive actuality. > > so... > > what the hell is going on? > > that is...really or not so much. > > not even " nothing " answers this. > > nothing " is just another non-concept of the nonentity. > > it's not a who in whoville.. > > more like a zombie in zombieland. > > that is to say that is the guess.. > > of the no one here..or there..or anywhrewhere. > > or like the beatnicks said: > > it's all nowhere man! > > .b b.b. > :-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bahestx3 " <bahestx3@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " methusalum " <methusalum@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The unambiguous answer is " yes – most definitely. " Are you satisfied? You should be! Your own teacher says: > > > > > > > > " blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed " > > > > > > > > If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. > > > > > > > > If not, what you call outside yourself is actually entirely within yourself. Although you look at an object (which might be there - or might be a dream) you are in fact creating a representation of it within your mind using bits of filtered information. This is why you only see part of the available data. You will normally only see a fraction of the outside surface, a fraction of the light frequencies and a fraction of its lifespan. And this pattern of vagueness is repeated for all the lesser senses. > > > > > > > > Now you could argue all day about whether that object actually exists. I like to think of that question as being rather subtle. Just as you cannot take a 5 year old and teach them calculus without first giving them the fundamentals of basic calculation, so it would appear to be with other subjects -- including the nature of the self and the universe. As only what is truely within ourselves can be immediately, directly and entirely perceived it seems natural that this is where the fundamentals of certainty start. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure how to interpret this first part of your post: > > > > > > " If so, you should seek out a guru to give you the answers that you desire and then believe him. " > > > > Don't forget that he became who he was because he had faith in his guru. Verbal reasoning will only go so far. > > > (.b b.b.) > > this entire thread is without merit. > Interesting example of the performative. No merit was claimed. Do you declare the impossibility of any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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