Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:06 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: >> Hey, >> >> I have lurked about this group from time to time and found much of >> interest. But till now did not post. So please be gentle.... >> I have a question based on the following... >> >> Student: Master how is your world different than mine? >> >> My world is non-verbal, the unspoken has no place in your world. >> In my world words and their meanings have no being. My world is > real, >> yours is made of dreams. If you observe your world, not as you > imagine >> it to be, but as it is, you will find yourself in my world. Your > world >> is the abode of desire and fear. You cannot find peace in your > world. >> >> >> My question is, " What do you think is meant by the suggestion of a >> non-verbal world and what is being suggested by saying the > unspoken >> has no place in our world? >> > > Non-verbal world=unspoken=I-am-ness=consciousness > > Our world appears in unspoken=consciousness > > It's always this consciousness that Maharaj talks about > > According to a story told, Maharaj was invited to give talks in > London Vedanta Society and they sent a sum of money in advance. > Maharaj didn't go because he thought his message was much too > simple, not exactly refined metaphysical arguments. > > Maharaj's world is different because he knows his identity as > consciousness. > > P: Hur, since you're the owner of the list, I won't contradict you. I'll let Maharaj himself do that. Here is what he said about consciousness in page 40 of Consciousness And The Absolute: " Because of the instrument of the body, that feeling of consciousness is there and I, the Absolute, am not that. Having stabilized in consciousness, the next step is to be in a position to observe consciousness, and all the play that is happening in consciousness, just to understand. Attachment to the body and to consciousness is very strong, to get rid of it is very difficult. The birth principle, the chemical around which the body formation takes place, has no form or design and actually didn't exist. That non-existing thing suddenly came into existence. What is the validity of its existence? It's an apparition only, it can't be truth. That's why I dare talk like this. This is a big hoax, a big fraud, created out of nothingness. can you create something out of nothing? Whatever I said is securely planted in that birth principle of yours, you can't extract it. In due course it will proliferate into knowledge. I don't want life, even for a moment, but in that momentary life there are many lives. I'm not afraid of death. With death the imperfection is removed. Consciousness, the stigma of imperfection is gone. What remains is perfection. There is no guarantee that I will meet you tomorrow, but the reality is that there is no separation at all between you and me, because we are one. Do not imagine a separation. " P: So, you see he called consciousness, the stigma of imperfection, and didn't identify with it, but with the Absolute, of which he said many times, it is not aware of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> wrote: > > P: So, you see he called consciousness, the stigma of imperfection, > and didn't identify with it, but with the Absolute, of which he said > many times, it is not aware of itself. > Yes, you're Absolute(ly) right but it's easier to call IT consciousness especially when answering the question that was asked. According to the E channel, who's the IT girl this year? I heard IT was Lindsay Lohan, no longer Paris Hilton. You think Hilton is jealous of Lohan? A jealous God(ess) the Absolute, jealous of Consciousness, or all the other lesser terms, the children of lesser gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> wrote: > > > On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:06 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > >> Hey, > >> > >> I have lurked about this group from time to time and found much of > >> interest. But till now did not post. So please be gentle.... > >> I have a question based on the following... > >> > >> Student: Master how is your world different than mine? > >> > >> My world is non-verbal, the unspoken has no place in your world. > >> In my world words and their meanings have no being. My world is > > real, > >> yours is made of dreams. If you observe your world, not as you > > imagine > >> it to be, but as it is, you will find yourself in my world. Your > > world > >> is the abode of desire and fear. You cannot find peace in your > > world. > >> > >> > >> My question is, " What do you think is meant by the suggestion of a > >> non-verbal world and what is being suggested by saying the > > unspoken > >> has no place in our world? > >> > > > > Non-verbal world=unspoken=I-am-ness=consciousness > > > > Our world appears in unspoken=consciousness > > > > It's always this consciousness that Maharaj talks about > > > > According to a story told, Maharaj was invited to give talks in > > London Vedanta Society and they sent a sum of money in advance. > > Maharaj didn't go because he thought his message was much too > > simple, not exactly refined metaphysical arguments. > > > > Maharaj's world is different because he knows his identity as > > consciousness. > > > > > > P: Hur, since you're the owner of the list, I won't contradict you. > I'll let Maharaj himself do that. Here is what he said about > consciousness in page 40 of Consciousness And The Absolute: > > " Because of the instrument of the body, that feeling of > consciousness > is there and I, the Absolute, am not that. > Having stabilized in consciousness, the next step is to be in a > position to > observe consciousness, and all the play that is happening in > consciousness, just to understand. Attachment to the body and to > consciousness is very strong, to get rid of it is very difficult. > > The birth principle, the chemical around which the body formation > takes place, has no form or design and actually didn't exist. That > non-existing thing suddenly came into existence. What is the > validity of its existence? It's an apparition only, it can't be > truth. That's > why I dare talk like this. This is a big hoax, a big fraud, created out > of > nothingness. can you create something out of nothing? > > Whatever I said is securely planted in that birth principle of yours, > you > can't extract it. In due course it will proliferate into knowledge. > > I don't want life, even for a moment, but in that momentary life there > are many lives. I'm not afraid of death. With death the imperfection is > removed. Consciousness, the stigma of imperfection is gone. What > remains is perfection. > > There is no guarantee that I will meet you tomorrow, but the reality is > that there is no separation at all between you and me, because we > are one. Do not imagine a separation. " > > P: So, you see he called consciousness, the stigma of imperfection, > and didn't identify with it, but with the Absolute, of which he said > many times, it is not aware of itself. As i've said before and elsehere much of these kinds of strains of philosophy's evolved from the original teachings of Buddha. approx 500 BC. later a well so called acharya, named Sankaracharaya, appros 500 AD came gave strong roots to impersonal, mayavadi philosophy. What is described, in a more contempory refined, id you wish, is the expression or non philosophy of ' Nihilism' or a strain of that., which again requires the impersonalist as is Nisa here to try and explain away life and any form. So what's new boys? gents/ladies? So, be nihilist's, but why hang here in cambridge, i notice you tactfully try to avoid me or speak around me or hint at me that i'm basically s short wick candle. lol, but you are still there observing and reserving comment. Meet me spirit on, better yet, invite me to your local for some in depth observation. If you want to study me, as a foreign specimen, you might just conclude 'i am', lol. Regardless, i will not let foolish concepts of nothingness skew the Truth. It really shows, that you westerners fell out from your birth designations and ended up elsewhere, so did i. But there are many unique and varying differences in stories as to why. Just as there is an interesting story as to why i can sit here and take on all these ridiculous concepts of gods and not gods and toss them aside with ease proving that the fundamental basic Truths are still rooted in the G_d, God, Word, I AM, of the Bible which was a break from all the assyrian, Hindhu, stone and not gods predominent cultures that were throughout the mesopotamia, or middle east during this time. They were there as well orginally, as was during the time of Moses and the hypothetical story of Adam and Eve, which incidently does not read as the first two human beings to an astute reader who reads with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Not the ' blind guides' that are so called heads of Judaism or Christianity, which are not but well fed frauds established but the gov't lawyers instuitions, set up as pawns for their own political prowness. Now when you guys start hearing me instead of thinking i'm a product of one of them or just this system, them you might begin to see a tiny light in that 'tunnel of doubt' you all live in. Now as you know, i get booted from everywhere i go, but if you gave mevthe time and listen, just a little, you might hear something you never heard before. Well, you have, but b/c it's all camouflaged by the thick veil of delusive energy coming from conceptual gods and not gods, that is, personal and non personal gods. Can you hear that? From the most basic trickery of the belief system of promises by Christianity, to the most complex and simpliest denials of even the character of 'life or existence' as is, the attempt made here by Nisa, all, all the systems between are in some ways still infected or tainted by the minds of those who propose and purport them. That's what the Holy Spirit says of the Bible. So that's a pretty bold statement, don't you think? or have tried to condition yourself to think, 'i don't think. therfore,i am'. You see all your nonsenseical efforts will always bring you back to me. Ever heard all roads,or paths lead to God. Well all of them do, but i'm on that path and once you get here you'll truly see that there is joy and bliss and love and prosperity promised for those on the path, called the " Highway to Holiness.' yes Bible yes perfection, purity, peacefulness and bliss. Isaiah. Do you think you are going to just toss out Gods Word? ie burn all the Bibles in this world? Granted there may be way too many versions, but there is but one God who calls his family the chosen, the only chosen the Virgin daughters of Israel, and not for nothing. They are in Him and He is in them through Word, deed and action. That is the perfection of love. How can yo u dent this? stop it, you must eat, sleep and communicate, action is service which is inseperable from the soul or life. What's so difficult? When you come to the simple reasoning, sequaciously through personal willful desire to be completely pure, then all thoughtfullness is actually thoughtlessness due to the pure flow of thought from the source of Love, ie thought, or giver of thought. That is peace, now matter if it apears you are in this world, you are removed from it, unaffected, steadfast, dhira, in your oneness, which is, the I Am, not the 'i'm not'. lol nihilists>! Let me give you one personal eg, since you tire easily of my talking discrediting me as you go, looking for flaws in my expression, but here. Remember, days passed, can you do that?, or do you try to wipe it out?. Perhaps alzsheimer is you objective, (:_, when you were in search of knowlege, ok , whatever, anyways,...... i was at one time looking for books of sales, i was 20 years of age, and i came across this book called " How to win friends and influence People " , i 'm confident you all know this, stored up there in the memory, which you can't erase, anyways, i looked and said 'interesting ' , 'How to?', So let's open and read, and there were the how to's and so on. OK , so then i stumbled on this book titled 'Think, and grow Rich'. So the light went on, and the inner self the selfs, Self or the Self said " that's it " ________'think' and grow rich. So i looked at the cover and said , that's the answer, there's no need to open the book the answer is on the cover. So i went home back into meditations of the Self and the answers continued to flow. So what am i saying? you must learn to listen to the Self within, and discern when that Self is speaking to you. Hear carefully, that is the purport and essence of the entire Bible. That is, the Holy Prophets, were conduits, channeling the Holy Spirit out 'from within' as they heard, they either spoke or wrote. Did you hear that? Therefore, they were not speaking, but God within was, that is the unspoken if you wish, b/c there is no interference by any personal idea, motive or concept to interfere with the Pure Self. Now this is a brief,and i'll stop there, holding you accountable for atleast taking the time to read. If you all choose to ignore me fine, if you think you are superior or you have superior or equal understanding fine, i understand b/c the ego is very big, and it's biggest when alot of the coverings are removed of the physical concepts. That is, the closer you get to the Truth, the more you will see the poisons or the many manifestations of envy that are subtley remaining in the heart, at the root of all your deepest thoughts. Why do i know this? Consider, that i have went to those deepest corners of the conscience to find them hanging out, and there's were the Self, said " so you found Me, My son, i have made your journey, quite difficult, but i see you have passed the tests " . There i will stop, b/c of retention deficit disorders, lolol as well as, it was the Inner Self, that has said , " Enough for now, let them digest, and see. " as always trusting in God, who is the source of Love i remain, a messenger, to my brothers/sisters in Him. " peace be within " ....David, the psalmist whitehorserides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> wrote: > > > On Dec 6, 2005, at 2:06 PM, Nisargadatta wrote: > > >> Hey, > >> > >> I have lurked about this group from time to time and found much of > >> interest. But till now did not post. So please be gentle.... > >> I have a question based on the following... > >> > >> Student: Master how is your world different than mine? > >> > >> My world is non-verbal, the unspoken has no place in your world. > >> In my world words and their meanings have no being. My world is > > real, > >> yours is made of dreams. If you observe your world, not as you > > imagine > >> it to be, but as it is, you will find yourself in my world. Your > > world > >> is the abode of desire and fear. You cannot find peace in your > > world. > >> > >> > >> My question is, " What do you think is meant by the suggestion of a > >> non-verbal world and what is being suggested by saying the > > unspoken > >> has no place in our world? > >> > > > > Non-verbal world=unspoken=I-am-ness=consciousness > > > > Our world appears in unspoken=consciousness > > > > It's always this consciousness that Maharaj talks about > > > > According to a story told, Maharaj was invited to give talks in > > London Vedanta Society and they sent a sum of money in advance. > > Maharaj didn't go because he thought his message was much too > > simple, not exactly refined metaphysical arguments. > > > > Maharaj's world is different because he knows his identity as > > consciousness. > > > > > > P: Hur, since you're the owner of the list, I won't contradict you. > I'll let Maharaj himself do that. Here is what he said about > consciousness in page 40 of Consciousness And The Absolute: > > " Because of the instrument of the body, that feeling of > consciousness > is there and I, the Absolute, am not that. _____this is correct in the Absolute sense or plenary sense, but not in the intimate expanded sense, that is the Holy Spirit. Granted God is not the personal conceptual, subjective i. > Having stabilized in consciousness, the next step is to be in a > position to > observe consciousness, and all the play that is happening in > consciousness, just to understand. yes this is the beginning practices and varying kinds of yoga posturing and meditations can open up these awarenesses. Attachment to the body and to > consciousness is very strong, to get rid of it is very difficult. Yes, due to cultural conditions, parenting is the beginning all the rest is history for you all. > > The birth principle, the chemical around which the body formation > takes place, has no form or design and actually didn't exist. That > non-existing thing suddenly came into existence. _______This will get arguments from the scientific peanut gallery of course, howver the spritual stdent listens and questions the majesty and awesomeness of the grandeur of this world , fascinated by all the going ons and usually somewhere it's the all the pain that causes deeper questions into why, or why me. >What is the > validity of its existence? It's an apparition only, it can't be > truth. That's > why I dare talk like this. This is a big hoax, a big fraud, created out > of > nothingness. can you create something out of nothing? ________To understand this properly you must still go back to the first expression, that the illusion is based in bodily concepts and fragmented parts of the whole, covered by the birthright and all the attachments to this material world. Therefore nothing of any value will come from the fraud, since their is denial of the eternal nature of the self. > > Whatever I said is securely planted in that birth principle of yours, > you > can't extract it. In due course it will proliferate into knowledge. > > I don't want life, even for a moment, but in that momentary life there > are many lives. _____there you go here's his way of describing it. I'm not afraid of death. With death the imperfection is > removed. Consciousness, the stigma of imperfection is gone. What > remains is perfection. _____ you see here, suddenly M is talking about death, ok, if you think physical death then that's one thing, but if you think material death then that is another, it is a death and is taught by the Holy Prophets as a rebrith or to be 'born again' or in the book of Revelation it's said that " one who dies in God is unaffected by the second death or the physical death " . So here is similar saying, let's move on , and listen to M > > There is no guarantee that I will meet you tomorrow, but the reality is > that there is no separation at all between you and me, because we > are one. Do not imagine a separation. " Let's here this again. you see it's true there is no guarantee for tomorrow, ok . now he says there is no 'seperation' at all_____stop for a moment_____ supplant this word with individualism first, then individuality last. now read it. There is no indidualism between you and me, b/c we are 'of the same' one. _____consider make up the same not a merged existence, b/c he's allready said ' we may not meet tomrrow, so whatever or whereyou are , you are still doing uniquely but you come from the same one ie one, or make up. your circumstances may be different but you are still in consciousness, which is consciousness. ok let's roll on > > P: So, you see he called consciousness, the stigma of imperfection, > and didn't identify with it, but with the Absolute, of which he said > many times, it is not aware of itself. Well, to get from M, to what you said is a l_____ong stretch. i hope i've filled in some gappage. Yes, P, he called consciousness the stigma of imperfection, but that was due to personal attachments to the carnal activity. This too is cleary defined in the Bible as the source of the problem. Did you know the Bible had such info? Secondly, you said , and i take it presumably spoken elsewhere, " many times, it is not aware of itself " . Which indicates what, that he doesn't recognize his own self in relationship to God, the Self within or that or or or what are you saying, ? this needs alittle more substance before i can comment. oh well, next. oh there is none, fancy that!__________the ever,elusive emptiness, lol _____________________________(*_*)_____________________ |.___(^) $ _____________________________lol_________________________. ___________________ surprise it's not but (*_*)________lol. dancing the night away, like the thief 'i am'. whitehorserides_____________even through the nite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 On Dec 7, 2005, at 4:04 AM, Nisargadatta wrote: > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> wrote: >> >> P: So, you see he called consciousness, the stigma of imperfection, >> and didn't identify with it, but with the Absolute, of which he said >> many times, it is not aware of itself. >> > > H: Yes, you're Absolute(ly) right > but it's easier to call IT consciousness > especially when answering > the question that was asked. P: Yes, you are right easier and more helpful for those who are not on the final yard of the way. That is what makes reading books about questions and answer from/to seekers so confusing to some, because answers seem to contradict each other, and we have to guess the level of understanding of that particular seeker, and judge whether the answer is just a temporary toy, or an end of the road answer. > > According to the E channel, who's the IT girl this year? I heard IT was > Lindsay Lohan, no longer Paris Hilton. You think Hilton is jealous of > Lohan? A jealous God(ess) the Absolute, jealous of Consciousness, or > all the other lesser terms, the children of lesser gods. P; Lol, yes, but keep in mind that a sage is always moving the signifier goal post toward that point where no signifier, no identification is needed. Bible thumpers and god's worshipers call this nihilism, but it's not denying existence, on the contrary, it's total acceptance without need for descriptions, explanations, theories or dogmas about it. Life is life, and living sufficient onto itself. Pete > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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