Mumbo Jumbo/Lewis

[Guest guest]

L: Posting can end easily for me as soon as conditions change in one

>way or another and it will end as abruptly as it started as such

things are with me. It is always pouring into something until it is

>exhausted, so I do not try to stop it, this pouring into is what I do

amd am. I have the time, logistical freedom and abililty to do it. I

>can do it, so I do and it is interesting to me for all those reasons I

always give. When I am unable to do it anymore, it will end. Could do

>and could of done are dreams and there is no interest in that.

 

P: Yes, probably that's how it's going to be with you.

You are not one of us. You are new to this. You are a

social anthropologist conducting a study.

This study could be for professional or personal reasons,

or simply, curiosity. No doubt you are a quick study that

have mastered the conceptuality and the lingo, and can now

run circles around the old-hands here. Some will recent this,

not I. I think it's a good thing you have taken an interest,

and though, probably, you won't be here next June, it has been

rewarding.

 

Let us know when the book, or paper is available. It will be

great fun to read it. I know you re going to deny you are

studying the natives, and that's alright. It's just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote:

> L: Posting can end easily for me as soon as conditions change in one

> >way or another and it will end as abruptly as it started as such

> things are with me. It is always pouring into something until it is

> >exhausted, so I do not try to stop it, this pouring into is what I do

> amd am. I have the time, logistical freedom and abililty to do it. I

> >can do it, so I do and it is interesting to me for all those reasons I

> always give. When I am unable to do it anymore, it will end. Could do

> >and could of done are dreams and there is no interest in that.

>

> P: Yes, probably that's how it's going to be with you.

> You are not one of us. You are new to this. You are a

> social anthropologist conducting a study.

> This study could be for professional or personal reasons,

> or simply, curiosity. No doubt you are a quick study that

> have mastered the conceptuality and the lingo, and can now

> run circles around the old-hands here. Some will recent this,

> not I. I think it's a good thing you have taken an interest,

> and though, probably, you won't be here next June, it has been

> rewarding.

>

> Let us know when the book, or paper is available. It will be

> great fun to read it. I know you re going to deny you are

> studying the natives, and that's alright. It's just my opinion.

 

Lewis: Pete, I am surprised that you think that..again. No book or

paper will be made. No objective study is being done. If there was

such a thing, I would be obliged by the force of the ethics of the

discipline in which I trained to announce any attempt of condcut such

a study and to procure informed consent. Not doing so would result in

professional penalities and chastisement. No Pete, I am just an

inveterate experiencer, collector and teller of stories and have

always been so.

 

Since I have been here and elswhere on lists you know of and

to, I have recently found the word for my interest. It is

mythopoetics. This is of recent vintage and I bumped into recently

(two or three weeks ago) while search out the origins and given

meanings of the word myth. In doing so, mythopoetics and mythopoesis

showed up and these fit very nicely with what I am about. Then I began

an interent search about these words and found it rarely used and

poorly defined and then found it used to some degree in the works of

Eric Voegelin, which I am now reading. A very interesting fellow and

it seems he has covered many of the nondual bases with interesting

language and it jibes with a lot of what I use. I find his two pole

tension model of transcendent experiences as missing other poles which

I have added in some recent posts. This is how I move from one thing

to another stimulated in the main by conversations and posting here

and elsewhere.

 

You can find a short Voegelin glossary here

 

http://home.salamander.com/~wmcclain/ev-glossary.html

 

And the " Dictionary of Voegelinian Terminology, " a more detailed one here.

 

http://home.salamander.com/~wmcclain/ev-dictionary.html

 

I enjoy working through glossaries such as this because I can find

words that express something that was 'there' but having no word for

it was unable to express it. Also there are new words learned that

throw light on something 'present' that was in the dark, if you know

what I mean. It is similar to reading poetry and listening to all the

stories as it can be a " light upon a dark " that obscured or a " dark

upon a light " that blinded. He uses many Greek and Latin terms and

their deriviatives.

 

So, Pete, if I suddenly stop, it will not be sudden sudden as there

are many heart felt connections here. As you may remember, I am able

to post as much as I do because this place is folding into something

else and we who work here are not part of that folding's future. In

this, there is not much to do, there are no activities except those

moving towards the folding. In six months this logisitical freedom may

or may not contuinue in the next place of employment. So, as the

conditions change, and employment is a major one for posting, we will

have to wait and see. That would be the main condition. The other

condition is that there is an exhaustion of pouring. So far that has

not been the case, even though at one time it almost was.

 

Lewis

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Some commentaty about Voegelin and mythopoetics for tasting.

 

" The most important feature of the letter [to Schuetz in 1943] is

Voegelin's insistence that consciousness has the structure not only of

an 'I' but also of an 'other-than-I,' since it experiences itself as

belonging to the mysterious ground of being. Therefore, the

articulation of the meaning of consciousness demands, at some stage,

the use of mystical or mythic symbols--that is, symbols that

communicate the fact that consciousness participates in a reality

whose ultimate meaning transcends human understanding and, in the case

of mythical symbols, that suggest an interpretation of that further

dimension of meaning consistent with what we do know about reality.

Such symbols are important elements not only in a philosopher's

account of reality but also in personal and political life, because a

human being is not merely a congeries of spatiotemporal processes, but

the meeting-place of these with the timeless ground of meaning, and

needs emotional and intellectual orientation in that mysterious

destiny. Therefore, he concludes that any attempt to explain

consciousness in the manner of a science of indubitable propositions

trespasses on the mystery of the ground in which consciousness

participates. " [Hughes, Glenn, Mystery and Myth in the Philosophy of

Eric Voegelin, University of Missouri Press, Columbia, Missouri, 1993,

p. 22]

 

 

Some Voegelin candy about narratvies and stories (mythopoetics):

 

" But what sort of a thing, then, is narrative? First, it is neither

precisely a " dimension " of consciousness, nor a " constituent, " but

rather, like language and temporality, for example, a component of

consciousness in and through which consciousness and its objects are

reflected to consciousness itself. In simple terms, narrative is the

primary mode through and in which the " actor on-stage " reflects on his

existence " on-stage. " Like consciousness, narrative is itself both

intentional (a story told by someone about something) and luminous (a

story that " emerges from the It-reality. " The structure of

consciousness is thereby replicated along these two dimensions in the

structure of narrative. [from Order and History, vol. 5, In Search of

Order, LSU Press, Baton Rouge, La., 1987, p. 24.]

 

" Second, a narrative is not, strictly speaking, a form of symbolism,

but a mode of symbolization. It is an ordering, so to speak, of the

symbols of experience into a concrete whole. " [p. 43]

 

" Narratives range from the simple folk tales and fables that seek to

teach childhood lessons, to the larger biographies and autobiographies

that tell the story of a human life (and perhaps tell it whole), to

the grand myths and wider historical narratives of religious and

political communities, to the grandest story of the " It-reality "

itself. " [p. 48]

 

Voegelin on the nature of the 'It' or It-Reality

 

" Let me formulate it very simply. We are sitting here talking. What is

it that moves us? " [from Lawrence, Fred (ed.), The Beginning and the

Beyond: Papers from the Gadamer and Voegelin Conferences, Scholar's

Press, Chico, California, 1984, P. 108]

 

 

Voegelin on Ground

 

" That being which is the ground of all experienceable particular

being is an ontological hypothesis without which the experienced

reality of the ontic nexus in human existence remains

incomprehensible, but it is nowhere a datum in human existence rather

it is always strictly transcendence that we can approach only through

meditation. It cannot be drawn from that Beyond of finiteness into

finiteness itself. Our human finiteness is always within being. At one

place, namely consciousness, this being has the character of

illumination, but the illumination clings to this particular level; it

illuminates neither the basic being of nature nor the ground of

being. " [from Anamnesis (trans. and ed. by Gerhart Niemeyer),

University of Notre Dame Press 1978, pp. 32-33]