Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:06 AM > Re: The Ego's Gita > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > ... > > > > > > Seeing that the seeking to escape the suffering is also part of > the > > suffering. That is really something I have to grok. So strange > that > > there could be so much conflict within one own thoughts and > > emotions. I am fighting a world that is really an inner > experience; > > trying to hold control over fragmented " possessions " in my mind. > > > > al. > > > > > > Yes, dear Al, this is so. > > > > Control is the issue now, not suffering. > > > > Letting all Be As It Is IS the only route > > that al. takes as the inner experience > > possessing al. It is circuitousness in nature. > > > > a. > > > > > I think it is partial control that is the ego, specially partial > control as a personal future. The future is important, but maybe not > so important as my thoughts and emotions are telling me. The inner > conflict I experience is for me an indication that there is > something wrong somewhere. One thing is that I am not at all happy > with the world as it is right now. I feel like a " Stranger in a > strange land " which is the book where Heinlein coined " grok " . > > " You know that there is something wrong with this world. You don't > know what it is. But it is there, like a splinter in your mind, > driving you mad " -- Morpheus in the first Matrix movie > > al. > > > > NoOne can die again for al. for noOne > is the death of al. > > al. <who> is the source of suffering, of ego, of control, of personal future. A > " wrongness " existing only in the splintered mind of al. > > All things of the mind thus disappear > and This Is All for the Life of al. to Be > so " Lived " . > > Enjoyment for the sake of Enjoyment. > > a. > " No longer able to trust yourself, you take the gigantic _upward_ leap into trusting God " -- Vernon Howard I don't know why I keep hearing Vernon Howard in my mind. This a Nisargadatta list. Maybe I should reread " I am That " so that I can come up with some Nis quotes. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:48 AM Re: The Ego's Gita Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:06 AM > Re: The Ego's Gita > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > ... > > > > > > Seeing that the seeking to escape the suffering is also part of > the > > suffering. That is really something I have to grok. So strange > that > > there could be so much conflict within one own thoughts and > > emotions. I am fighting a world that is really an inner > experience; > > trying to hold control over fragmented " possessions " in my mind. > > > > al. > > > > > > Yes, dear Al, this is so. > > > > Control is the issue now, not suffering. > > > > Letting all Be As It Is IS the only route > > that al. takes as the inner experience > > possessing al. It is circuitousness in nature. > > > > a. > > > > > I think it is partial control that is the ego, specially partial > control as a personal future. The future is important, but maybe not > so important as my thoughts and emotions are telling me. The inner > conflict I experience is for me an indication that there is > something wrong somewhere. One thing is that I am not at all happy > with the world as it is right now. I feel like a " Stranger in a > strange land " which is the book where Heinlein coined " grok " . > > " You know that there is something wrong with this world. You don't > know what it is. But it is there, like a splinter in your mind, > driving you mad " -- Morpheus in the first Matrix movie > > al. > > > > NoOne can die again for al. for noOne > is the death of al. > > al. <who> is the source of suffering, of ego, of control, of personal future. A > " wrongness " existing only in the splintered mind of al. > > All things of the mind thus disappear > and This Is All for the Life of al. to Be > so " Lived " . > > Enjoyment for the sake of Enjoyment. > > a. > " No longer able to trust yourself, you take the gigantic _upward_ leap into trusting God " -- Vernon Howard I don't know why I keep hearing Vernon Howard in my mind. This a Nisargadatta list. Maybe I should reread " I am That " so that I can come up with some Nis quotes. al. silly al., so? 'anna' mind can not much quote a whole hell of a lot, what comes forth just comes forth... really quite liberating. some have called it rightly, bullshit.; - ) and somehow vernon howard, fuzzie and someone else, just blur the edges of 'anna' mind : - ) hmm. interesting. It is an absolute beautiful Sunday morn in my neck of the woods, how's it where al. hangs around with al.? love ya silly goose, er chicken a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 29, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " > <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > <fuzzie_wuz> > > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > > <fuzzie_wuz> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > > > > <fuzzie_wuz> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > ***SNIP*** > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In " limitless being " , there are no expectations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In theory, perhaps yes. But what about in practice? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the practice. When the ego drops out, there is > only > > > > this: > > > > > > > limitless being; no questions, no expectations. It > simply > > is > > > > what > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is. Nothing more, nothing less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sound very simple. Thanks fuzzie. I think there is truth > in > > what > > > > you > > > > > > are saying here. As Nukunu said: " You keep a little bit of > > the > > > > ego > > > > > > left so that you can enjoy the Beloved " , and " You _must_ > > become > > > > a > > > > > > nothing " . Or Vernon Howard: " ...that means you have to get > > rid > > > > of > > > > > > you.....God cannot come in because you are occupying the > > > > space... " , > > > > > > and " ....Right now there is you and there is God....never > the > > > > twain > > > > > > shall meet.....you don't like God at all.....you are at > the > > > > downhill > > > > > > side of God.....but you can see the condition you are in > and > > not > > > > > > like being there... " , and " ...and then you still live in > this > > > > zoo- > > > > > > like existence, with all those sneaky creatures out > > there....BUT > > > > YOU > > > > > > ARE FREEEE.....FROM EVERERYONE OF THE CREATURES OF THE > NIGHT, > > > > > > BECAUSE YOU NO LONGER LIVE IN THE > > > > > > NIGHT........_NOT_........_ANY_........_MOOORE_! " :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly, Anders. There is no need to kill the ego. That > would > > be > > > > the > > > > > ego trying to kill it's self. That's silly. Just let the ego > > fall > > > > away > > > > > and there is being in the present, which is where it's at. > When > > the > > > > > " me " falls away, everything is what it is in complete > > perfection. > > > > > > > > > > The sense of " me " , the ego, will still be part of the > body/mind > > > > > complex. But, it will no longer be dominant. When the ego > drops > > > > away > > > > > and presence is enjoyed, the ego is put in it's place and > > harmony > > > > > prevails, even in chaos. > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds as you have reached such state yourself. Do you > experience > > a > > > > deep peace in your life not burdened by constant ego thoughts > and > > > > emotions? > > > > > > > > I have only an idea of what such state is; simply the absence > of > > my > > > > _excessive_ worrying about virtually everything. I am nowhere > > near > > > > the ego-less state Vernon Howard and other sages describe. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > There is no " reach(ing) such state yourself " . You're > > already " there " . > > > It is simply seeing through the separative ego mirage. It is a > > mental > > > 'optical' illusion, so to speak. Like the old Hindu story about > the > > > guy who saw a rope and mistook it for a snake. He was freaked > out > > and > > > in a state of fear and anxiety about it. Then, upon closer > > inspection, > > > he saw the snake was just a rope. All of his fear and doubts > > vanished. > > > It was all in his mind. The individual ego-self is the same way. > > It's > > > imaginary, an illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > Hello fuzzie, al, > > > > Yes, many do live in thought constructions > > 'about' experience and reality -- > > not in actual immediate experience, > > nor in the center of Being. > > > > To seek the path which goes beyond > > suffering and death, does not deny > > the inevitable fate of human existence, > > which is physical death, nor any experiences, > > yet the fruits of experiential understanding > > borne of this seeking > > may serve to release one from the suffering > > generated by " taking the rope for the > > snake " > > > > and to see that the seeking to escape > > the suffering was also part of the > > suffering, > > > > yet, ironically, it is only through > > experiential understanding, not > > just intellectual, that this is grokked. > > > > kindest regards, > > > > Freyja > > > Seeing that the seeking to escape the suffering is also part of the > suffering. That is really something I have to grok. So strange that > there could be so much conflict within one own thoughts and > emotions. I am fighting a world that is really an inner experience; > trying to hold control over fragmented " possessions " in my mind. > > al. Yes. It appears you are at war with yourself. But, if that's where you're at, then, that's where you're at. The conflict with yourself is just as much an expression of 'what is' as anything else. You do not have to get approval or become worthy of enlightenment. When enlightenment happens, it just happens. There's no longer a " you " there to have it happen to or to " grok " something or to be worthy of it or to do anything. The ego just falls away as if a dream, a mirage. So, go on torturing yourself or whatever your current predicament may be. Let it be. There's nothing you can do about it. It is what it is. You are that. Accept yourself as you are and be perfectly natural. No effort is even required. fuzzie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 30, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:48 AM > Re: The Ego's Gita > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, May 29, 2005 9:06 AM > > Re: The Ego's Gita > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > - > > > anders_lindman > > ... > > > > > > > > > Seeing that the seeking to escape the suffering is also part > of > > the > > > suffering. That is really something I have to grok. So > strange > > that > > > there could be so much conflict within one own thoughts and > > > emotions. I am fighting a world that is really an inner > > experience; > > > trying to hold control over fragmented " possessions " in my > mind. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > Yes, dear Al, this is so. > > > > > > Control is the issue now, not suffering. > > > > > > Letting all Be As It Is IS the only route > > > that al. takes as the inner experience > > > possessing al. It is circuitousness in nature. > > > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > I think it is partial control that is the ego, specially partial > > control as a personal future. The future is important, but maybe > not > > so important as my thoughts and emotions are telling me. The > inner > > conflict I experience is for me an indication that there is > > something wrong somewhere. One thing is that I am not at all > happy > > with the world as it is right now. I feel like a " Stranger in a > > strange land " which is the book where Heinlein coined " grok " . > > > > " You know that there is something wrong with this world. You > don't > > know what it is. But it is there, like a splinter in your mind, > > driving you mad " -- Morpheus in the first Matrix movie > > > > al. > > > > > > > > NoOne can die again for al. for noOne > > is the death of al. > > > > al. <who> is the source of suffering, of ego, of control, of > personal future. A > > " wrongness " existing only in the splintered mind of al. > > > > All things of the mind thus disappear > > and This Is All for the Life of al. to Be > > so " Lived " . > > > > Enjoyment for the sake of Enjoyment. > > > > a. > > > > " No longer able to trust yourself, you take the gigantic _upward_ > leap into trusting God " -- Vernon Howard > > I don't know why I keep hearing Vernon Howard in my mind. This a > Nisargadatta list. Maybe I should reread " I am That " so that I can > come up with some Nis quotes. > > al. > > > silly al., so? > > 'anna' mind can not much quote a > whole hell of a lot, what comes forth > just comes forth... really quite > liberating. some have called it rightly, > bullshit.; - ) > > and somehow vernon howard, fuzzie > and someone else, just blur the edges of 'anna' mind : - ) hmm. interesting. > > It is an absolute beautiful Sunday > morn in my neck of the woods, how's > it where al. hangs around with al.? > > love ya silly goose, er chicken > > a. > Well, this chicken is going to break out of its shell, I hope. Bless, bless al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 30, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " > > <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > > <fuzzie_wuz> > > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > > > <fuzzie_wuz> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " > > > > > <fuzzie_wuz> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > ***SNIP*** > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In " limitless being " , there are no expectations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In theory, perhaps yes. But what about in practice? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the practice. When the ego drops out, there is > > only > > > > > this: > > > > > > > > limitless being; no questions, no expectations. It > > simply > > > is > > > > > what > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is. Nothing more, nothing less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sound very simple. Thanks fuzzie. I think there is truth > > in > > > what > > > > > you > > > > > > > are saying here. As Nukunu said: " You keep a little bit of > > > the > > > > > ego > > > > > > > left so that you can enjoy the Beloved " , and " You _must_ > > > become > > > > > a > > > > > > > nothing " . Or Vernon Howard: " ...that means you have to get > > > rid > > > > > of > > > > > > > you.....God cannot come in because you are occupying the > > > > > space... " , > > > > > > > and " ....Right now there is you and there is God....never > > the > > > > > twain > > > > > > > shall meet.....you don't like God at all.....you are at > > the > > > > > downhill > > > > > > > side of God.....but you can see the condition you are in > > and > > > not > > > > > > > like being there... " , and " ...and then you still live in > > this > > > > > zoo- > > > > > > > like existence, with all those sneaky creatures out > > > there....BUT > > > > > YOU > > > > > > > ARE FREEEE.....FROM EVERERYONE OF THE CREATURES OF THE > > NIGHT, > > > > > > > BECAUSE YOU NO LONGER LIVE IN THE > > > > > > > NIGHT........_NOT_........_ANY_........_MOOORE_! " :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly, Anders. There is no need to kill the ego. That > > would > > > be > > > > > the > > > > > > ego trying to kill it's self. That's silly. Just let the ego > > > fall > > > > > away > > > > > > and there is being in the present, which is where it's at. > > When > > > the > > > > > > " me " falls away, everything is what it is in complete > > > perfection. > > > > > > > > > > > > The sense of " me " , the ego, will still be part of the > > body/mind > > > > > > complex. But, it will no longer be dominant. When the ego > > drops > > > > > away > > > > > > and presence is enjoyed, the ego is put in it's place and > > > harmony > > > > > > prevails, even in chaos. > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds as you have reached such state yourself. Do you > > experience > > > a > > > > > deep peace in your life not burdened by constant ego thoughts > > and > > > > > emotions? > > > > > > > > > > I have only an idea of what such state is; simply the absence > > of > > > my > > > > > _excessive_ worrying about virtually everything. I am nowhere > > > near > > > > > the ego-less state Vernon Howard and other sages describe. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no " reach(ing) such state yourself " . You're > > > already " there " . > > > > It is simply seeing through the separative ego mirage. It is a > > > mental > > > > 'optical' illusion, so to speak. Like the old Hindu story about > > the > > > > guy who saw a rope and mistook it for a snake. He was freaked > > out > > > and > > > > in a state of fear and anxiety about it. Then, upon closer > > > inspection, > > > > he saw the snake was just a rope. All of his fear and doubts > > > vanished. > > > > It was all in his mind. The individual ego-self is the same way. > > > It's > > > > imaginary, an illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > > > > > > Hello fuzzie, al, > > > > > > Yes, many do live in thought constructions > > > 'about' experience and reality -- > > > not in actual immediate experience, > > > nor in the center of Being. > > > > > > To seek the path which goes beyond > > > suffering and death, does not deny > > > the inevitable fate of human existence, > > > which is physical death, nor any experiences, > > > yet the fruits of experiential understanding > > > borne of this seeking > > > may serve to release one from the suffering > > > generated by " taking the rope for the > > > snake " > > > > > > and to see that the seeking to escape > > > the suffering was also part of the > > > suffering, > > > > > > yet, ironically, it is only through > > > experiential understanding, not > > > just intellectual, that this is grokked. > > > > > > kindest regards, > > > > > > Freyja > > > > > > Seeing that the seeking to escape the suffering is also part of the > > suffering. That is really something I have to grok. So strange that > > there could be so much conflict within one own thoughts and > > emotions. I am fighting a world that is really an inner experience; > > trying to hold control over fragmented " possessions " in my mind. > > > > al. > > > Yes. It appears you are at war with yourself. But, if that's where > you're at, then, that's where you're at. The conflict with yourself is > just as much an expression of 'what is' as anything else. You do not > have to get approval or become worthy of enlightenment. When > enlightenment happens, it just happens. There's no longer a " you " > there to have it happen to or to " grok " something or to be worthy of > it or to do anything. The ego just falls away as if a dream, a mirage. > So, go on torturing yourself or whatever your current predicament may > be. Let it be. There's nothing you can do about it. It is what it is. > You are that. Accept yourself as you are and be perfectly natural. No > effort is even required. > > fuzzie I am alway trying to control the future, and this is also what almost everybody on this planet is trying to do. It is called " responsibility " . Someone said that true responsibility is response-ability. I think that is the way to go. Not trying to control the future, but being responsive to what is happening. In this way, I hope that my ego and totality will become integrated. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
