Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > [.....] > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > > > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere > and > > > > Open > > > > > for a Moment. > > > > > > > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > > > > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > > > > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > > > > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > > > > > > > =========== > > > > > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > > > ** It's a set-up. > > > > > > > > Your so-called questions come from the > > > > answers (you imagine) you have. > > > > > > > > It's a pointless exercise, > > > > > > > > > Or, is the Above just a blank, Very COMMONN and Cowardice way to > > > respond to any question, ...that you do NOT want to answer ? > > > > ** I've got nothing ultimate to say, Arvind. > > There's no answer-word for " what is always? " > > ...Well then, for you, perhaps, it might be ok to wait UNTIL you find > out, ....What is Always. > > I on the other hand, can say with complete honesty, truthfulness and > confidence and I know of NO Moment when there is no ... > > ---- I AM ---- ** So after the guillotine comes down and severs the head, which way does the I AM go? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > [.....] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > > > > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > > > > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere > > and > > > > > Open > > > > > > for a Moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > > > > > > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > > > > > > > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > > > > > ** It's a set-up. > > > > > > > > > > Your so-called questions come from the > > > > > answers (you imagine) you have. > > > > > > > > > > It's a pointless exercise, > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, is the Above just a blank, Very COMMONN and Cowardice way > to > > > > respond to any question, ...that you do NOT want to answer ? > > > > > > ** I've got nothing ultimate to say, Arvind. > > > There's no answer-word for " what is always? " > > > > ...Well then, for you, perhaps, it might be ok to wait UNTIL you > find > > out, ....What is Always. > > > > I on the other hand, can say with complete honesty, truthfulness > and > > confidence and I know of NO Moment when there is no ... > > > > ---- I AM ---- > > ** So after the guillotine comes down and severs the > head, which way does the I AM go? > > > > > > I Am......is the door into the dream........ Beyond the dream.......is nothing. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > [.....] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > > > > > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere > > > and > > > > > > Open > > > > > > > for a Moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > > > > > > > ** It's a set-up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your so-called questions come from the > > > > > > answers (you imagine) you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a pointless exercise, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, is the Above just a blank, Very COMMONN and Cowardice way > > to > > > > > respond to any question, ...that you do NOT want to answer ? > > > > > > > > ** I've got nothing ultimate to say, Arvind. > > > > There's no answer-word for " what is always? " > > > > > > ...Well then, for you, perhaps, it might be ok to wait UNTIL you > > find > > > out, ....What is Always. > > > > > > I on the other hand, can say with complete honesty, truthfulness > > and > > > confidence and I know of NO Moment when there is no ... > > > > > > ---- I AM ---- > > > > ** So after the guillotine comes down and severs the > > head, which way does the I AM go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Am......is the door into the dream........ > > Beyond the dream.......is nothing. > > > > toombaru -------------------------- unless you decide to dream something else up. In which case this could go on and on and on for eons. Why bother? ~G. --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > [........] > > > >>> BTW, what and `why' are you still `debating', Dan ? > > This is why, I asked you this question, Dan. > > About 3 messages ago in the same thread, I asked you perhaps, a Very > Simple question and then I even repeated it. > > You haven't answered it. Yet, you have been presenting your ideas > on ...assumes sense, inability of words ... > > Whereas, answer to the question might be pretty simple and straight > and might require No elaborate logic. Just little Courage should be > enough. > > If you can NOT try to honestly and sincerely this question in > straight and simple terms, I ask ....Why, you are still `debating', > Dan. Here is the question again: > > ============ > > It is quite easy, Dan! > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere and Open > for a Moment. > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > =========== > > [........] I'm not debating Arvind. I'm simply inviting you to look at the one who holds the belief and why, rather than repeating the belief over and over. Why the need to believe there is something you have that is always present, some IS that never changes? What do you get out of that? Obviously, you get security, you get permanence. So, you could, instead of repeatedly saying, " I AM " - look into the insecurity that wants to hold onto something permanent and absolute as a means to have something to count on. And then, you might surprise yourself. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > [........] > > > > > > >>> BTW, what and `why' are you still `debating', Dan ? > > > > This is why, I asked you this question, Dan. > > > > About 3 messages ago in the same thread, I asked you perhaps, a > Very > > Simple question and then I even repeated it. > > > > You haven't answered it. Yet, you have been presenting your ideas > > on ...assumes sense, inability of words ... > > > > Whereas, answer to the question might be pretty simple and > straight > > and might require No elaborate logic. Just little Courage should > be > > enough. > > > > If you can NOT try to honestly and sincerely this question in > > straight and simple terms, I ask ....Why, you are still > `debating', > > Dan. Here is the question again: > > > > ============ > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere and > Open > > for a Moment. > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > =========== > > > > [........] > > I'm not debating Arvind. > > I'm simply inviting you to look at the one who > holds the belief and why, rather than repeating > the belief over and over. > > Why the need to believe there is something you have > that is always present, some IS that never changes? > > What do you get out of that? Perhaps, " he gets " the same thing " you get " out what you hold. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan: Indeed, this intelligence is immediate, not dependent on words or structures, yet can " use " the structurings and words. It is total, timeless, nonlocal. Neither absolute, nor relative -- but allowing us to make sense of the distinction and relation of concepts of absoluteness and relativity. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arvind seems to call this you describe as " I AM. " You seem to agree to name it " intelligence. " The difference is obscured if Arvind sees I AM as total, timeless, nonlocal. What does Arvind say? Arvind? > Obviously, you get security, you get permanence. > > So, you could, instead of repeatedly saying, " I AM " - > look into the insecurity that wants to hold onto > something permanent and absolute as a means to > have something to count on. > > And then, you might surprise yourself. > > -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > [......] > > > > > > > > *** getting desparate, hmmm? Good! > > > > keep accusing others of what you're in fact doing.... > > > > keep repeating 'I AM'...ad nauseum. > > BE that nausea.... > > > > notice that it's the *un*-reality that requires repeated > > attempts...ongoing investments of energy... > > > > investments believed to be 'effortless'... > > > > how many posts a day...to how many lists? > > how much 'attention'? > > is Arvind fully 'established' yet? > > I am NOT discussing ...'Arvind' in this thread, Kenji. > > `Arvind' might be an interesting thing to discuss but, it is not the > topic, I am discussing in this thread. > > ..... > ... > . > > Are you `worried' about something or somebody getting > established, ...somewhere, Kenji? > > Because, by its very definition, ...if > an `establishment', `established' has to be ...Temporary. > > What can be `established' can be also ...'un-established'. > > . > ... > ..... > > BTW, if you want to say something about what is discussed, then, it > might be a good idea to read the entire thread and understand > WHAT ...is that, which is discussed. > > > .... > ... > . > > Understanding, what and where Arvind might want to `end' something > might be much, much simpler than you think. > > He might wish to spend only limited hours ---say, two on the Net and > he might need to what is ...'useful', `honest', `sincere', > and ...what is just `futile', `drawing circles and trying to make > something very simple, ...complex', ... How many will assert themwelves. How few will look into themselves. How many will want to be right, and insist on being right. How few will let go of having any measure by which to be right. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > [...........] > > > > > > I AM. > > > > Knowing it requires ...Nothing, No Effort, no external aid ... > > > > But, to deny and repeatedly argue against it, ...might require > > something. Let us examine, few of them. > > > > Please allow me to present few possibilities in very straight way. > I > > am discussing in just a `general' term and they may or may not be > > related to you, Dan. > > > > I AM > > > > ....to keep trying to present arguments and arguments after it > might > > require: > > > > > > --------- a Severely MANIPULATIVE Mind. One that will try its best > to > > twist, spin everything possible in an effort to get its goal. > > > > > > ----------- a COWARD, that would do anything to Save its face, > which > > it might view as losing if it accepts it. > > > > > > ----------- a LOST philosopher who has got so lost in his > philosophy > > that it automatically start repeating few words such > > as ...assumption, thinking, words, affirmation, negation, > die, ...in > > varied order. No matter what is being discussed and how greatly > > simple or complex it might be. > > > > > > > > --------- a Manipulative mind HOPING to win a debate by making it > too > > Time Consuming, boring, frustrating by arguing against extremely > > simple and self-evident facts or by drawing irrelevant repeated > > philosophical circles one after the other. > > > > > > ---------- a person who is Stupid beyond stupidity. A person who > just > > automatically hears and mouths few words but ....understands > nothing. > > > > Consider the case of trying to argue with a electronic toy which > can > > not hear or understand. > > > > It has about 100 phrases that would say in a random No matter what > is > > said. > > > > > > > > > > In all the above cases, ...any Honest, Sincere, Open, real > discussion > > is Not possible. > > > > ..... > > ... > > . > > > > However, it is possible that you have some other reason to keep > > arguing against it and I would be very glad and interested in > hearing > > them. > > > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. > > > *** getting desparate, hmmm? Good! > > keep accusing others of what you're in fact doing.... > > keep repeating 'I AM'...ad nauseum. > BE that nausea.... > > notice that it's the *un*-reality that requires repeated > attempts...ongoing investments of energy... > > investments believed to be 'effortless'... > > how many posts a day...to how many lists? > how much 'attention'? > is Arvind fully 'established' yet? > > > ken Indeed. How easy to cast aspersions on others. How difficult to cast aspersions on one's self. :-) -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > > > > >>> BTW, what and `why' are you still `debating', Dan ? > > > > > > This is why, I asked you this question, Dan. > > > > > > About 3 messages ago in the same thread, I asked you perhaps, a > > Very > > > Simple question and then I even repeated it. > > > > > > You haven't answered it. Yet, you have been presenting your ideas > > > on ...assumes sense, inability of words ... > > > > > > Whereas, answer to the question might be pretty simple and > > straight > > > and might require No elaborate logic. Just little Courage should > > be > > > enough. > > > > > > If you can NOT try to honestly and sincerely this question in > > > straight and simple terms, I ask ....Why, you are still > > `debating', > > > Dan. Here is the question again: > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere and > > Open > > > for a Moment. > > > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > > > =========== > > > > > > [........] > > > > ** It's a set-up. > > > > Your so-called questions come from the > > answers (you imagine) you have. > > > > It's a pointless exercise, > > > Or, is the Above just a blank, Very COMMONN and Cowardice way to > respond to any question, ...that you do NOT want to answer ? > > > Haven't we all heard this sort of remarks over and over again many > politicians and ...other CHEATS, Dear Kenji ? > > > Just a question, dear Kenji ... > > What you think ? I think you've moved from pontificating on the great I AM to calling anyone who questions what you say a cheat, a manipulator, or stupid. That is what politicians do, dear Arvind. And it is worth looking into. Your great I AM hasn't prevented you from the usual defensive maneuvers of a mind that wants to be right and doesn't want to be questioned. I say this with all respect for you, for you've been willing to expose your beliefs openly. So, the question is: are you willing to go further, and question into the assumptions involved in wanting to hold the beliefs? -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 > > ** So after the guillotine comes down and severs the > head, which way does the I AM go? Ask, after ...THAT happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> BTW, what and `why' are you still `debating', Dan ? > > > > > > > > This is why, I asked you this question, Dan. > > > > > > > > About 3 messages ago in the same thread, I asked you perhaps, > a > > > Very > > > > Simple question and then I even repeated it. > > > > > > > > You haven't answered it. Yet, you have been presenting your > ideas > > > > on ...assumes sense, inability of words ... > > > > > > > > Whereas, answer to the question might be pretty simple and > > > straight > > > > and might require No elaborate logic. Just little Courage > should > > > be > > > > enough. > > > > > > > > If you can NOT try to honestly and sincerely this question in > > > > straight and simple terms, I ask ....Why, you are still > > > `debating', > > > > Dan. Here is the question again: > > > > > > > > ============ > > > > > > > > It is quite easy, Dan! > > > > ....for anybody who can take courage to be HONEST, Sincere and > > > Open > > > > for a Moment. > > > > > > > > What any assuming, thinking requires ? > > > > > > > > What is ...ALWAYS ...Present ? > > > > > > > > What you can ...NEVER ...get rid of ? > > > > > > > > WHAT ...IS ...ALWAYS ? > > > > > > > > =========== > > > > > > > > [........] > > > > > > ** It's a set-up. > > > > > > Your so-called questions come from the > > > answers (you imagine) you have. > > > > > > It's a pointless exercise, > > > > > > Or, is the Above just a blank, Very COMMONN and Cowardice way to > > respond to any question, ...that you do NOT want to answer ? > > > > > > Haven't we all heard this sort of remarks over and over again many > > politicians and ...other CHEATS, Dear Kenji ? > > > > > > Just a question, dear Kenji ... > > > > What you think ? > > I think you've moved from pontificating on the great I AM > to calling anyone who questions what you say a cheat, > a manipulator, or stupid. > > That is what politicians do, dear Arvind. > > And it is worth looking into. > > Your great I AM hasn't prevented you from the usual > defensive maneuvers of a mind that wants to be right > and doesn't want to be questioned. IS that YOU, ...Dear Dan? When was the LAST Time you Openly clearly in simple and straight words admitted to being wrong in any discussion. If NO, Is Dan one of the ONLY One who is NEVER Wrong or Is He just like many others who doesn't honesty, truthfullness and COURAGE to admit being wrong in Clear, Open terms. BTW, ...I do USE Mind, dan ... What do you use ...? > > I say this with all respect for you, for you've been > willing to expose your beliefs openly. So, the question > is: are you willing to go further, and question into > the assumptions involved in wanting to hold the beliefs? > > -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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