Devendra....where are you running to ????

[Guest guest]

Devendra: >>>EVEN I AM WONDERING: WHAT HAPPENED?..DID ANYONE PERSON

COME FORWARD

>AND TELL-THIS IS HOW BALSEKAR HAS HELPED ME..OR THIS WHAT I HAVE GOT

>FROM HIM...PLS. POINT ME TO ONE MAIL AT LEAST THAT ANSWERED

ME...INSTEAD PEOPLE TOLD ME..WHY ARE YOU KEEN TO KNOW ABOUT OTHERS

EXPERIENCE??

>>

>>

From your original post you say:

>>Devendra: >>>>All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing

fully well that

you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-

-

whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what

has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his

own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a

concept " .

Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit

from balsekar??

the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de-

baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he

has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of

individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a

dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an

individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found

a large number of balsekaric excuses.

but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round.

>

>>someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects

karma,others accept it.

no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you

take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally

different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did

his programming go haywire..

i mean i am no one to doubt another--but i can only judge by

appearance ..i am not a jnani:-))

if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then

there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!

 

 

Donny:

Your initial question was headed under the title: Balsekar-

Nisargadatta-et.al.

In the text you zeroed in on Balsekar more precisely. Do you see

how you got other ideas? People's interpretations or experiences

with Nisargaadatta's and the " et al. " My definition of et al, is

any and all, and the rest, as a potluck meal type of thing.

Then toward the end of your statement you say: >> even if you

take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally

different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did

his programming go haywire.. " "

 

So, I clearly see you've asked for Both questions in your one

statement.

So, when I responded I came from my own hybrid potluck experience,

I can't come from someone else's but my own. I don't know Balsekar

at all. The only teaching I learned from Nisargadata was the " I am

that' concept, which I described. Then another poster clarified

that " I am that " was actually derived from Fryeburg or some other

guy, and not from Nsg. Another said it originated from an old

scriptural teaching. Well, in my opinion it all originated from

the same source anyway, so the rest is merely semantics. Perhaps if

you only wanted feedback on Balsekar alone it would have been more

appropriate to take the name Nisargadata-et al. out of your subject

heading. And then not to precisely mention that you'd like feedback

re Nsg as well. Perhaps this is what caused some of the

misunderstanding??

 

Devendra says: >>>>is there a white mans ego fighting back here..i

dont

know??Albertos zen stick is fine..but mine is

wrong..why becoz im not french canadian???why??

 

Donny:

I never said anyone's " zen " stick was wrong. I don't believe in

right and wrongs, if my posts don't clarify that I will do so now.

Sometimes I may fall into an old habit of saying " such and such is

the " only " way " and I must be more conscious of that, because I

don't to their being " thee right way " of doing something.

I made the statement about Alberto because it alludes to how one can

be genetically and culturally predisposed to certain behavior, or

ideas. You yourself posed the genetic question in one of your

posts.

I stated that I saw people on the board expressing ideas in an

honest way, but not in a mean spirited or angry way, for the

exception of the little ego tantrum Alberto had, in which case I

referred to his genetic and cultural upbringing as likely

influencing that behavior. His need to have people look at the

way " He " does things as being " the only way " and when it was

questioned by another poster he cut rope and fled. This indicates

an extreme ego base, which sounds in conflict with the exalted and

enlightened 15 yr. sadhana state he's very proud of. Culturally and

genetically I recognize the French Canadian culture as a whole

looks toward separation, thinks they've been hard done by, and wants

the rest of the group/Canada to do what it says and accommodate it

in ways that would result in separation of a country,,, so I'm just

drawing some cultural parallels.

Then you say, " but mine is

wrong..why becoz im not french canadian???why?? "

 

I never said you're wrong, I said I didn't understand where you were

coming from based on conflicting ideas I read in your threads, I

went on to point them out, as I see them, and asked you questions so

you could clarify? If you are bent on lumping yourself in with my

understanding of Alberto, then that is **your** thing, not mine, and

perhaps since you internalized the identification, there may be

some " I AM THAT " that is crying out to be addressed within your own

nature. You asked Why?? And I'm giving my views here. If you don't

want them then stop asking for people's ideas. Why even come on a

board that obviously is geared toward idea exchange if you aren't

comfortable with the ideas that are exchanged.

 

 

>A snip from your above statement you say:

>>>the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in

de-

>baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he

>has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of

individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a

>dangerous spiritual complacency.

 

 

Donny: I can see why you are conflicted. There is a lack of simple

acceptance, enjoyment and appreciation for what you did receive, and

then a desire to get something you really want, but somehow never

quite received. In other words, you're expectations don't seem to

measure up to what you received.

It sounds like you derived good from him. What is your definition

of good? You said he " helped you in de-baggage-ification…shed a lot

of conceptual baggage " " …. That sounds pretty good to me? Maybe my

reference of good isn't the same as yours.

Then, you say, " " he has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss

of " DOING " -the joy of individual self effort in spiritual practice

and has lulled me into a dangerous spiritual complacency. " "

 

Donny: I see a man who doesn't want to take responsibility for his

own choices. ***he*** " robbed " you,,,,, did **he** have a gun to

your head? Did he make you go to him? Did he " Make " you learn the

specific things you did? Did " HE " " Make " you stay???

This is very important. Because, you not only " don't " appreciate

some of the good you got, the good in itself has turned sour in your

mouth, as enlightenment to some degree has caused you to open up

your eyes, and now you don't want your eyes open,,,you'd rather go

back to having your eyes closed. Rather than taking responsibility

for that, you'd rather blame someone else,,,like Balsekar. You

say, " but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. "

Of course your none the wiser, you don't accept the lessons and

learn from them, so of course your back on the same old merry go

round. "

 

One " problem " (the only word I can find although it's not really a

problem, only another opportunity) I see in looking to others as

in God or guru, is this very thing. People really don't want to

take responsibility for being very truthful and honest within

themselves about themselves, so they look to someone or something

else,,,aaah, the magic pill, the wonder cure,,, then, when things go

right they can praise the person or thing outside themselves and

equally, as in this case, when things go wrong, (or more like when a

person doesn't grasp what's going on) that person can then " blame "

the person or thing. It's just another way of not owning one's own

life, taking responsibility and yet another example of the

fragmentation process.

 

 

>>A snip from your above statement:

>>someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects

karma,others accept it.

no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you

take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally

different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did

his programming go haywire..

i mean i am no one to doubt another--but i can only judge by

appearance ..i am not a jnani:-))

if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then

there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!!

 

Donny says: Program didn't go haywire. Evolution of people change.

That can make us think differently. When you were 6 yrs. old you

thought differently than now. Did something go haywire? No, it's

just evolution, you're growing and changing ideas.

The reason there is really no one cut and dried truth, as in your

statement of some people propounding karma, others not, some

rebirth, others not, is all about,,,,choice. There is no real one

truth, there are lot's of different interpretations and experiences

and each one is validly true for each person experiencing it. And,

how do you define karma, or rebirth? The earth has certain sets of

rules that keep it in place functioning as it does, and in order to

play into the earth game, one must accept the ideas, like gravity,

and breathing air. Even if one doesn't accept some of them, it

really doesn't matter, because you may or may not accept gravity as

a universal law, but on earth it is a law. A realized person may

eventually defy the law of gravity (though this is very rare) It

doesn't make the law obsolete, it means a choice has been made, and

he doesn't accept that as " His " " Experience " . It doesn't even mean

that one experience is " more true " than the other. It doesn't even

mean that one experience of a realized person is in conflict with

another. It just means there different and they have chosen

different experiences. Understand?

 

In longing to focus on the idea of separation as opposed to non-

separation people forget that the motivational force behind it all

is simply " choice " . You wish to blame Balsekar for your choices.

In my posts I have suggested one " owning " who they are and what they

are, rather then spending so much time trying to run away from it,

and denying it by saying the well worn phrase **it's all

illusion**. An attempt to escape their thoughts can cloud the

issue IF IT BECOMES extreme and out of balance with understanding

CHOICE, which generally happens to people who are practicing these

things. The attempt to escape one's thoughts can also lead to

putting illusion and non illusion and the idea of non-dualism into a

conscious understanding. When that was achieved I stopped trying to

run away from (denying) illusion. But there are many ways to come to

the same destination, and none of them are wrong,,,only different.

When one goes into a flow state then one sees it from different

angles altogether.

 

My interpretation of you is only intended from a place of sincerity

and speaking my honest ideas, I have no mean spirited or angry

intention behind any of the words I'm going to write to you. I say

it only in caring and sharing, although it's going to come off like

I'm doing a psycho-analysis of you and I guess it is that.

 

You sound like the main character from the movie, Matrix I. The guy

had a choice of taking the blue pill: stay in unconsciousness and

be ignorance, or take the pink pill: move into conscious

understanding. He took the pink pill and regretted doing so, but it

was very difficult for him because he could never seem to recapture

the original ignorant state in the way he had experienced it before.

 

You say these concepts are kindergarten, repetition. What exactly

are you looking for? At the base of everything there is a few

simple truths --- choice and experience. A myriad of your

experiences wraps on either your conscious choice or unconscious

choice. It will never be any more complex than that, sorry to

disappoint you dear, but the universe has found plenty of complexity

within that very boring and kindergarten, humdrum origin. In

seeking the profound you're looking for the ultimate flower garden,

and don't seem to recognize the many beautiful roses right under

your nose. Why would you be able to open yourself up to any

more " profound " or " complex " concepts, when you can't embrace or

live the simple ones that have already been offered you? You think

their kindergarten, but you have let their simplicity fool you. If

they were so simple, then you yourself would be transcended by now.

Or whatever you conceive that to be. No, they may be simple, but

easy has a different definition altogether.

 

Yet, you run away from Balsekar, and now you run away from the

board, under the heading of *not having time*, being passionate

about time, and not getting anything out of any new teachings.

Hahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahhahahahaha

I'll stop laughing now.

 

I suggest you aren't getting anything out of it because you

aren't " Practicing " it. You continue to run because it's your

altered states way of keeping itself alive in you to a greater

degree. Then it justifies itself by saying it's so much

more " beyond " that,,,it simply can't find anything profound and

worthy to impress it's wonderful gloriousness. Yep, that's why you

can't run away fast enough. But to the trained eye, your actions

speak louder than your words. I suspect you could meet Nisagardata

or Vivekanda or the Buddha Siddhartha or any one else for that

matter and come up with the same response. It's a cat and mouse

game of the altered state. I know it very well. I faced it long

ago within my own self and that's how I identify it so easily. It

will lead you on a merry chase, or a merry go round as you put it,

of poor me, or I'm so wonderful, or I'm so " beyond " all this.

 

The minute you say the words, " I'm so beyond this " is the minute you

set yourself up for the great fall. And, of course, you have, as

you stated: you find yourself still on the same merry go round. But

I suggest it isn't the same,,,it can never be the same, because

you've gained information and now you have to `split' off from

yourself even further in order to maintain these ideas about your

grandeur,,, that idea that you aren't interested in something

because it's so passé, it's so yesterday, it's so old hat – or

you've grown so much beyond that,,,well,,,obviously to make the

statement that it's so kindergarten would follow that you've risen

beyond that level.

 

This week I had an exam. I don't enjoy exams. I went into the

space place (I don't know what the real phrase is for it, but I've

tried to study the real definitions to put common labels on what

I've experienced) Anyhow, I got 99% on the first test. Then I took

the second test. The whole thing was designed to befuddle the exam

taker and make it more difficult for them to figure out the right

answers. Since I'm a very straight forward and forthright person I

don't enjoy tests for this reason. The more I went on in the 2nd

test, the more I started to get emotional and get out of the space.

On that test I scored 89%. The first test taught me that I must

always acknowledge the 1% of the ego that keeps me in the altered

state, enabling me to function. If I get rid of it altogether I'll

release from the physical body. (that's my belief or perhaps it's a

universal belief that I haven't yet risen out of) in any case, it's

where I am at this moment and I accept that. The farther out of

space place I got the more confused I became by the test questions,

and the lower my grade. Never underestimate that 1%. And, don't

become so cock sure of myself or before I know it it'll be

overcoming me that lovely ego will take up more space in me,

possibly 19% more space, and pretty soon I'll be all high and mighty

arrogant and sensitive and self righteous deciding this board is

just awful, no one `gets' the great truth that `I I I I I ` am

trying to deliver to their non-sadhana enlightened self realized

beings.

 

For this reason I'm soooo grateful for this board. It's a place to

experience other people `eyes' and `ears' so to speak, so for me it

represents a place of honesty which helps me discern things clearer -

- if I'm in need of discernment I can come here and feel certain

I'll get what I need.

Sweet hugs to you all.

 

 

Your looking for information that you " Don't " know... well,,,I'll

tell you something about yourself that you obviously Don't Know. I

do see a dog chasing his tail. If you decide to stop chasing your

tail it's because that's the message that was told to you all

along. Now you say you'll stop chasing your tail, because you're

beyond the words that tell you to stop chasing it,,, am I painting a

reasonable enough picture of mind –splitting (literally altered

producing) chaotic insanity?? You can't see it because you can't

live it. You're too afraid to live it. So, you stop chasing your

tail to realize you want to go back to ignorance, a different

experience than the one your now experiencing. It seems to me you

aren't very clear on your decisions and choices, and troubleshooting

their possible outcomes and therefore whatever you receive will

never make you happy or content. Like the kid in the candy store who

decides to eat a bunch of candy, because it's shiny and he likes the

candy, but suddenly found out he ate too much, and it's making his

stomach sick. Now he doesn't like candy at all.

 

It's irrelevant weather you stop chasing or continue to the play the

game. It's your choice, but eventually you may want to become more

conscious of it all,,, and how your choices, and unconsciousness

regarding them, frame your experience, or perhaps not,,,as you've

indicated that ignorance is bliss? How's that ignorant bliss

working for you?? It doesn't matter to me one way or the other

how you play your game. But you are trying to run away under a

heading of your choice,,,if not that reason you'll find another

one. Your altered-ego state is afraid it's going to die. Because,

to a large degree it sort of does,,,yet it's kind of more like a

transformation then death,,,in any case,,,you're altered/ego state

is afraid of disappearing. So you can keep running away to save your

(altered) life all you like.

 

Let me share, as long as you've got 2 legs and hands you'll have to

utilize the altered ego to some degree, so you might as well not run

from it, or run to some great nothingness, but rather understand

consciously how it works,,,but I forgot,,,you're so busy running

from understanding that consciously,,, running " TO " something that

represents the `ultimate' in your eyes. If you run far enough and

fast enough and long enough you just might get what your looking

for, if you even know what you're looking for, if you EVEN recognize

it when you get there. But, because your true intention isn't

really to find it at all, then you'll reach it and keep

running,,,which is exactly what your doing. Why? Because you've

already stated your true intention, which is that you wished you

hadn't had your eyes opened, you wish you were still in ignorance.

Translation: you don't want to let go of the altered state, or more

rather, the altered ego state <you> doesn't want to let go of itself

or it's place or identity.

 

I know very well what you're going through.

Just letting *You* know that *I* know how your game is being played.

You may be able to pull the wool over your eyes, but it isn't being

pulled over mine. I may choose to buy into the game to some degree,

but I understand very clearly what I'm buying into and how I'm

playing it, and the choices and experiences I'm working with.

Sometimes I don't bother and go right into flow state (whatever the

real label is for that I don't know). But `conscious understanding'

is such a key word. And you aren't in that conscious understanding

state right now, and run from a board that might alert chunks of

that altered ego state to your attention in your life experiences.

 

 

Now, you can leave this board and then say you got ABSOLUTELY

nothing from this board, it was kindergarten. But, the fact is that

in your earlier post you said that being on this board caused you to

have a complete turn around in `way of thinking'. Well, if that's

not " something " then maybe we're not reading from the same

dictionary definitions. I personally would define that as

being " good " , however judging by your past posts you're

understanding of good and bad and how you interpret these concepts

in your life experience differs greatly from mine. And it becomes

clear that it's no wonder you're confused. Something that most other

people would consider to be good, you define as being bad, as in ,

not producing the desired goal of ignorance. So, you can decide.

Was the change you experience while on the board a " good " thing or

a " bad " thing. If it was good, then I'd have to conclude the board

gave you something of benefit. However, your words would say

otherwise when you state that you're walking away from it because

you didn't get anything out of it. Do you see the confusion that

goes on within your head. I like the candy, but I don't like the

candy. I want the candy, but I don't want the candy. Well, I ate

the candy last time and decided I didn't like it. Then why are you

back in the candy shop again (metaphor: this nsg. Balsekar board) if

you don't like the effects of candy. To understand why you don't

like candy??? I would think if you don't like candy you would just

stop shopping at the candy shops. Herein contributes to more of

the confusion,,,and your merry go round of discontent and confusion

continues. If the answers are all known to you and nothing new,

then why bother shopping around in the places that will give you

answers. In hope that you'll find a different answer that you're

happy with???? Aaah, yes, I addressed that in my above lengthy

discourse, which then again keeps the dog chasing it's tail, and

keeps Devendra nicely on his merry go round which he claims he

doesn't like, but more accurately I would say, Hasn't Decided yet

and is still Trying to choose. " I know the wacko way around the

ego.

 

And to clarify,,,no,,,you're actions and choices are not `Wrong " . I

don't say they are wrong. They are done unconsciously, and this is

why you are in conflict. You can't get the result you seek because

you can't do the practice work of identifying ego in self. " the I

AM THAT " work. Your very busy defending you're ego, or your ego is

very busy defending itself and in any case, that's not Wrong. It's

just another experience. You're just swimming around in a sea of

confusion, and it's o.k. to swim in that sea for as long as you

like. Maybe you're a fish too. LOL I don't think you really want

to get off the merry go round at all. I think it's a specific kind

of experience that you hold on to.

 

I posted a story about the boy who had the garbage can on his body

so he wouldn't avoid the stinging of the snowballs. That boy is

**You**.

 

 

Good luck to you and all the best, whatever that best may be,

whatever you choose it to be. Eventually you will find the answers

you're looking for, or just give up seeking/asking questions

altogether.

 

~*~ Donny

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[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider "

<laughterx8@h...> wrote:

> Devendra: >>>EVEN I AM WONDERING: WHAT HAPPENED?..DID ANYONE

PERSON

> COME FORWARD

> >AND TELL-THIS IS HOW BALSEKAR HAS HELPED ME..OR THIS WHAT I HAVE

GOT

> >FROM HIM...PLS. POINT ME TO ONE MAIL AT LEAST THAT ANSWERED

> ME...INSTEAD PEOPLE TOLD ME..WHY ARE YOU KEEN TO KNOW ABOUT OTHERS

> EXPERIENCE??

 

Namaste IMO,

 

Balsekar is eclectic but that doesn't make him wrong. If he wishes

to regurgitate the truth and people learn, what does it

matter.....ONS..Tony.