Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 I keep reading in these messages about time, fearlessness ...etc. Whenever we come across any conflict it is because we forget where the Vedas come from: the study of thoughts. Advaita means that other than Reality there is Nothing. This Nothing is thoughts. We can go in two directions with our thoughts -- towards the Reality or the JOY of No-thoughts that Ramana tells us is our " natural state " (sphurana) or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts create as they try not to be thoughts. Time is a thought. There is no label attached to thoughts that memories don't have. All of us routinely exchange thoughts with memories -- we are, however, more likely to find others doing it. In fact only the mind, a collection of thoughts, can separate for us its thoughts and memories from its sleep-dreams. The joke is that only our mind, thoughts, can separate thoughts from the thoughts that our mind calls its memories and dreams. Think about this: the mind – a collection of thoughts – is the police, judge and jury, and all the expert witnesses about the thoughts it will call memories, dreams and thoughts. With this awareness, how can anyone take their thoughts, mind, seriously – thus the word Maya and Lila. Take thoughts seriously and Maya and Lila turn into the futility of Karma. To get around the disorder of conflicting ideas and opinions we have to go back to the origins of the Vedas -- the Supreme Science which is the " study of thoughts. " I will go one step further: the only thing a person needs to be Self- realized is to be Aware of thoughts. Krishna, Buddha, Jesus… Ramana were Self-realized because they were Aware that thoughts are nothing but thoughts. Namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 .... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts create as they try not to be thoughts. >>> I love it! Bill - Gene Polotas Nisargadatta Monday, September 06, 2004 7:12 AM re -Fearlessness, time etc I keep reading in these messages about time, fearlessness ...etc. Whenever we come across any conflict it is because we forget where the Vedas come from: the study of thoughts. Advaita means that other than Reality there is Nothing. This Nothing is thoughts. We can go in two directions with our thoughts -- towards the Reality or the JOY of No-thoughts that Ramana tells us is our " natural state " (sphurana) or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts create as they try not to be thoughts. Time is a thought. There is no label attached to thoughts that memories don't have. All of us routinely exchange thoughts with memories -- we are, however, more likely to find others doing it. In fact only the mind, a collection of thoughts, can separate for us its thoughts and memories from its sleep-dreams. The joke is that only our mind, thoughts, can separate thoughts from the thoughts that our mind calls its memories and dreams. Think about this: the mind - a collection of thoughts - is the police, judge and jury, and all the expert witnesses about the thoughts it will call memories, dreams and thoughts. With this awareness, how can anyone take their thoughts, mind, seriously - thus the word Maya and Lila. Take thoughts seriously and Maya and Lila turn into the futility of Karma. To get around the disorder of conflicting ideas and opinions we have to go back to the origins of the Vedas -- the Supreme Science which is the " study of thoughts. " I will go one step further: the only thing a person needs to be Self- realized is to be Aware of thoughts. Krishna, Buddha, Jesus. Ramana were Self-realized because they were Aware that thoughts are nothing but thoughts. Namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > create as they try not to be thoughts. > >>> > I love it! Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real will abate. Pete > > Bill > > > - > Gene Polotas > Nisargadatta > Monday, September 06, 2004 7:12 AM > re -Fearlessness, time etc > > > I keep reading in these messages about time, fearlessness ...etc. > Whenever we come across any conflict it is because we forget where > the Vedas come from: the study of thoughts. > Advaita means that other than Reality there is Nothing. This Nothing > is thoughts. > We can go in two directions with our thoughts -- towards the Reality > or the JOY of No-thoughts that Ramana tells us is our " natural state " > (sphurana) or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > create as they try not to be thoughts. > Time is a thought. There is no label attached to thoughts that > memories don't have. All of us routinely exchange thoughts with > memories -- we are, however, more likely to find others doing it. In > fact only the mind, a collection of thoughts, can separate for us > its thoughts and memories from its sleep-dreams. > The joke is that only our mind, thoughts, can separate thoughts from > the thoughts that our mind calls its memories and dreams. Think about > this: the mind - a collection of thoughts - is the police, judge and > jury, and all the expert witnesses about the thoughts it will call > memories, dreams and thoughts. With this awareness, how can anyone > take their thoughts, mind, seriously - thus the word Maya and Lila. > Take thoughts seriously and Maya and Lila turn into the futility of > Karma. > To get around the disorder of conflicting ideas and opinions we have > to go back to the origins of the Vedas -- the Supreme Science which > is the " study of thoughts. " > I will go one step further: the only thing a person needs to be Self- > realized is to be Aware of thoughts. Krishna, Buddha, Jesus. Ramana > were Self-realized because they were Aware that thoughts are nothing > but thoughts. > Namaste > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > create as they try not to be thoughts. > >>> > I love it! Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real will abate. Pete >>>>>>>>>>>> You evidently missed the point, Pete, as you are simply restating the thesis. I loved the statement because of its sarcastic, mocking tone. I'm afraid I snipped a little too much of the context. Sorry for the confusion. But now that you mention it, a killer thought that could stop Al's thoughts cold sounds like an enticing challenge.... hmmmm How about a contest? Bill PS: Al you are invited to join! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > > create as they try not to be thoughts. > > >>> > > I love it! > > Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts > be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought > here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting > still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only > then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real > will abate. > > Pete > >>>>>>>>>>>> > You evidently missed the point, Pete, as you are simply restating > the thesis. I loved the statement because of its sarcastic, mocking > tone. > > I'm afraid I snipped a little too much of the context. Sorry for > the confusion. > > But now that you mention it, a killer thought that could stop > Al's thoughts cold sounds like an enticing challenge.... hmmmm > > How about a contest? > > Bill > > PS: Al you are invited to join! If he was being sarcastic, yes I missed that. It looked to me he was trying to be helpful. But only Polotas can settle that. As far as the contest, I pass. I never found one that stopped mine. They died of old age. Pete > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > > create as they try not to be thoughts. > > >>> > > I love it! > > Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts > be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought > here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting > still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only > then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real > will abate. > > Pete > >>>>>>>>>>>> > You evidently missed the point, Pete, as you are simply restating > the thesis. I loved the statement because of its sarcastic, mocking > tone. > > I'm afraid I snipped a little too much of the context. Sorry for > the confusion. > > But now that you mention it, a killer thought that could stop > Al's thoughts cold sounds like an enticing challenge.... hmmmm > > How about a contest? > > Bill > > PS: Al you are invited to join! Thanks! I just think about what I just thought about the previous moment and my thinking machine becomes stuck in an endless loop. :-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > > create as they try not to be thoughts. > > >>> > > I love it! > > Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts > be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought > here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting > still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only > then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real > will abate. > > Pete > >>>>>>>>>>>> > You evidently missed the point, Pete, as you are simply restating > the thesis. I loved the statement because of its sarcastic, mocking > tone. > > I'm afraid I snipped a little too much of the context. Sorry for > the confusion. > > But now that you mention it, a killer thought that could stop > Al's thoughts cold sounds like an enticing challenge.... hmmmm > > How about a contest? > > Bill > > PS: Al you are invited to join! Thanks! I just think about what I just thought about the previous moment and my thinking machine becomes stuck in an endless loop. :-) /AL >>>>>>>>>>> yeah... it gets stuck on trying to process a perpetually moving target but be wary of its multi-processing capabilities... before long it will start spinning off threads to do " other things " a better approach is infinite recursion... (a *dynamic* or " fractal " endless process)... for example: Ask it to analyze its own process of analysis. Expect *absolute rigor* (no sloppiness)... no letting off the hook. Bill Extra credit: explain the relationship of the above to Nisargadatta's " I am inquiry " . Extra-extra credit: explain the relationship of all the above to the Zen " koan " technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@a...> > > wrote: > > > ... or we can go towards the futility and chaos that thoughts > > > create as they try not to be thoughts. > > > >>> > > > I love it! > > > > Yes sounds good. But can thoughts commit suicide? Can thoughts > > be murdered by another's thought? Can Al read a killer thought > > here that would stop his thoughts cold? I doubt it. Sitting > > still and attentive a seeing beyond thoughts could come. Only > > then, the hurricane of thoughts revolving around the urge to be real > > will abate. > > > > Pete > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > You evidently missed the point, Pete, as you are simply restating > > the thesis. I loved the statement because of its sarcastic, mocking > > tone. > > > > I'm afraid I snipped a little too much of the context. Sorry for > > the confusion. > > > > But now that you mention it, a killer thought that could stop > > Al's thoughts cold sounds like an enticing challenge.... hmmmm > > > > How about a contest? > > > > Bill > > > > PS: Al you are invited to join! > > Thanks! I just think about what I just thought about the previous > moment and my thinking machine becomes stuck in an endless loop. :-) > > /AL > >>>>>>>>>>> > yeah... > it gets stuck on trying to process a perpetually moving target > but be wary of its multi-processing capabilities... > before long it will start spinning off threads to do " other things " > > a better approach is infinite recursion... (a *dynamic* or " fractal " > endless process)... for example: > Ask it to analyze its own process of analysis. > Expect *absolute rigor* (no sloppiness)... no letting off the hook. > > Bill > > Extra credit: explain the relationship of the above to Nisargadatta's > " I am inquiry " . > > Extra-extra credit: explain the relationship of all the above to the > Zen " koan " technique. > I think I will begin by spawning a separate process as a thread hovering near the near unconscious level of my mind by asking myself: " what makes a koan a koan? " . Already I can feel the precursors offsetting the seed of an answer: " What makes a koan a koan is its capacity to trigger a satori " . But what the heck is a satori, and how can I know the purpose of the koan is to trigger a satori? Maybe only one koan will not be enough. Maybe the purpose of a koan is to hinder the triggering of a satori... :-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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