Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one stops the illusion this way? Would suicide make for enlightenment? If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 - If you're having suicidal thoughts, GO SEE A DOCTOR, RIGHT AWAY! -- In Nisargadatta , " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> wrote: > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > stops the illusion this way? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Nisargadatta , " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> wrote: > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > stops the illusion this way? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. What you think of as you, is only a memory track created now. Even your body, and all of the material world is only a memory track created NOW. Your body is already dead. You think that there is a difference between a corpse and a " living " person, but this is only in appearance. Both are as dead as can be. Only awareness is alive. Only NOW exists. The world is like a movie on the screen. The movie has already happened, it is dead, a corpse in the movie and a " living " person in the same movie are only different in appearance. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 i agree w/ cerosoul... if u feel suicidal, see a professional mental health care practitioner right away... u do not want to kill yourself while in such a state of confusion... by the way... what kind of " totality training " have u been taking that has caused u to become so confused u feel like killing yourself??? Nisargadatta , " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> wrote: > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > stops the illusion this way? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Saw a documentary once of interviews with people, who had attempted suicide...it failed and they lived to tell of the experience.....not a pleasant one at all...rather quite horrifying. Definitely not a prescription for enlightenment. Don't be sure that your totality training is telling you this..this is confusion. Ramesh has a story somewhere about this...maybe someone here can relate it to you. Buddha is quoted as having said, " Deeds are done but there is no individual doer thereof " . Going deeper into non-dualistic teachings, the understanding will dawn, that there are (still) consequences for actions, taken. - " reptiliouss " <Reptilious <Nisargadatta > Friday, June 04, 2004 6:50 AM Suicide > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > stops the illusion this way? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Jessica White " <ellam- ondre@c...> wrote: > Saw a documentary once of interviews with people, who had attempted > suicide...it failed and they lived to tell of the experience.....not a > pleasant one at all...rather quite horrifying. Definitely not a prescription > for enlightenment. > > Don't be sure that your totality training is telling you this..this is > confusion. Ramesh has a story somewhere about this...maybe someone here can > relate it to you. > > Buddha is quoted as having said, > " Deeds are done but there is no individual doer thereof " . > > Going deeper into non-dualistic teachings, the understanding will dawn, > that there are (still) consequences for actions, taken. The best way to prevent someone from trying to commit suicide is to tell them: How do you know that after you commit suicide you will not be born again in *exactly* the same life you are experiencing now? What if your life is an endless loop, like a record being played over and over again starting with yourself being born and ending with yourself commiting suicide. Again, and again, and again... Nightmarish to the extreme! That should stop even the most proud suicide candidate. Sorry for being such a Devil today. /AL > > > > - > " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> > <Nisargadatta > > Friday, June 04, 2004 6:50 AM > Suicide > > > > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > > stops the illusion this way? > > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Jessica White " <ellam- > ondre@c...> wrote: > > Saw a documentary once of interviews with people, who had attempted > > suicide...it failed and they lived to tell of the > experience.....not a > > pleasant one at all...rather quite horrifying. Definitely not a > prescription > > for enlightenment. > > > > Don't be sure that your totality training is telling you this..this > is > > confusion. Ramesh has a story somewhere about this...maybe someone > here can > > relate it to you. > > >Experience and reality are generally not truth; but may be a window to understanding. After being drafted to go to Vietnam, I found myself in one of the most dangerous positions as Pointman, but there was an intuitive knowledge where ambushes, trip-wires, mines etc. were;in 7 mts I avoided all. When self inflicted preasure built up i tried to let myself be killed, but it never worked, VC wouldn't shoot at me, I could walk through mine fields, but to my frustration nothing worked. Finially realized that I would not be allowed to die, so I accepted that and have never been afraid of death since. Even in my apparent ignorance I realized that life and death were not to be determined by me; but did push me toward finding who I am and who or what is in control. But still have not completed what Maharaj said, You are not afraid of death, but now you need to learn how to live. If this resonaces with anyone that is fine; if not, that is fine also. John > > Buddha is quoted as having said, > > " Deeds are done but there is no individual doer thereof " . > > > > Going deeper into non-dualistic teachings, the understanding will > dawn, > > that there are (still) consequences for actions, taken. > > The best way to prevent someone from trying to commit suicide is to > tell them: How do you know that after you commit suicide you will not > be born again in *exactly* the same life you are experiencing now? > What if your life is an endless loop, like a record being played over > and over again starting with yourself being born and ending with > yourself commiting suicide. Again, and again, and again... > Nightmarish to the extreme! That should stop even the most proud > suicide candidate. > > Sorry for being such a Devil today. > > /AL > > > > > > > > > - > > " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> > > <Nisargadatta > > > Friday, June 04, 2004 6:50 AM > > Suicide > > > > > > > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? > > > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > > > stops the illusion this way? > > > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > > > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > > > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > > > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame > of > > > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > > > > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " John Cox " <jcoxco> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Jessica White " <ellam- > > ondre@c...> wrote: > > > Saw a documentary once of interviews with people, who had > attempted > > > suicide...it failed and they lived to tell of the > > experience.....not a > > > pleasant one at all...rather quite horrifying. Definitely not a > > prescription > > > for enlightenment. > > > > > > Don't be sure that your totality training is telling you > this..this > > is > > > confusion. Ramesh has a story somewhere about this...maybe > someone > > here can > > > relate it to you. > > > >Experience and reality are generally not truth; but may be a > window to understanding. After being drafted to go to Vietnam, I > found myself in one of the most dangerous positions as Pointman, but > there was an intuitive knowledge where ambushes, trip-wires, mines > etc. were;in 7 mts I avoided all. When self inflicted preasure built > up i tried to let myself be killed, but it never worked, VC wouldn't > shoot at me, I could walk through mine fields, but to my frustration > nothing worked. Finially realized that I would not be allowed to > die, so I accepted that and have never been afraid of death since. > Even in my apparent ignorance I realized that life and death were not > to be determined by me; but did push me toward finding who I am and > who or what is in control. But still have not completed what Maharaj > said, You are not afraid of death, but now you need to learn how to > live. If this resonaces with anyone that is fine; if not, that is > fine also. John Hi John, What an extraordinary experience you describe. When it comes to living life I find comfort in the idea that not only birth and death is in the hand of the Source, but also everything in ordinary life is also completely in the hands of the Source, and that Source is found, not out there in the vast space of the universe, but right in the center of one's own heart. /AL > > > Buddha is quoted as having said, > > > " Deeds are done but there is no individual doer thereof " . > > > > > > Going deeper into non-dualistic teachings, the understanding > will > > dawn, > > > that there are (still) consequences for actions, taken. > > > > The best way to prevent someone from trying to commit suicide is to > > tell them: How do you know that after you commit suicide you will > not > > be born again in *exactly* the same life you are experiencing now? > > What if your life is an endless loop, like a record being played > over > > and over again starting with yourself being born and ending with > > yourself commiting suicide. Again, and again, and again... > > Nightmarish to the extreme! That should stop even the most proud > > suicide candidate. > > > > Sorry for being such a Devil today. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > " reptiliouss " <Reptilious@i...> > > > <Nisargadatta > > > > Friday, June 04, 2004 6:50 AM > > > Suicide > > > > > > > > > > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to > suicide? > > > > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if > one > > > > stops the illusion this way? > > > > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > > > > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > > > > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > > > > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality > frame > > of > > > > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. > > > > > > > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 - " reptiliouss " <Reptilious <Nisargadatta > Friday, June 04, 2004 7:20 PM Suicide > If all duality is illusion, then how does this relate to suicide? To whom is all duality an illusion? Is that apart from the illusion? All other issues, all other questions (including that of suicide) follows from that premise. > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it matter if one > stops the illusion this way? A successful suicide is the cessation of the body-mind organism. To whom does the cessation of the biological object, (whatever be the particular form of the cessation),..............matter? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? What is enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. So after all it's not an illusion for you? It must not be, for you wish to get rid of it. Chasing something in order to get it, or chasing something in order to get rid of it,.................in both cases, that " something " is not illusory but holds a reality for you. Otherwise why would you bother chasing to get it or get rid of it. So suggest, there is nothing illusory for you,...........you maybe sick of your life as you believe it to be and want an " spiritually embellished " cop out.:-) > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't matter. Of course it matters to you. Otherwise the thought would not hold you. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. What is the specific issue, on which a proceeding is believed to be needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Just try and inquire on who is this entity trying to commit suicide?? Who kills who is the big question??? regards Gautam --- reptiliouss <Reptilious wrote: > If all duality is illusion, then how does this > relate to suicide? > If there is no karma, no *i*, no anything...would it > matter if one > stops the illusion this way? > Would suicide make for enlightenment? > If nothing matters due to all is totality, and all > duality is > irrelevant, and an illusion, why not. > Strange feelings that i have now are of course in a > duality frame of > mind, but my totality training tells me it doesn't > matter. > > Very confused, and not sure how to proceed. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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