Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock runs...he displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the other....... He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls between them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " <toombaru2003> wrote: > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock runs...he > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the > other....... > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls > between them...... That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the tango. You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside fishdom tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do not demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show awareness of 'other.' So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental than self. Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an infinity other 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the One be, not the Self, but.... The Other? I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male > > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock runs...he > > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the > > other....... > > > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls > > between them...... > > That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the tango. > You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. > > Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside fishdom > tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops > self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do not > demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show > awareness of 'other.' > > So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental than > self. > Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an infinity other > 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the One > be, not the Self, but.... The Other? > > I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, > > Pete Hello my friend, There is no 'self' to be aware of....whether in a fish or a man.... Having a conception of something....does not mean that it is real... When so called self awareness occurs...it is only mind separating itself conceptually from the flow of all-that-is... This is the 'I Am'....this is the 'dream'...this is the illusion of separation....this is samsara. This is the mind-bubble in which we live....and die......'we' cannot be outside of the bubble that mind has created....because 'we' are the bubble..... ********************************************* and the vastness in which it floats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male > > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock runs...he > > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the > > other....... > > > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls > > between them...... > > That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the tango. > You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. > > Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside fishdom > tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops > self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do not > demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show > awareness of 'other.' > > So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental than > self. > Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an infinity other > 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the One > be, not the Self, but.... The Other? > > I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, > > Pete oh i see you have all this typed by your secretary while you jump around her caught in the passion of your dictation... does she have beautiful gills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " <toombaru2003> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male > > > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > > > > > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > > > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock runs...he > > > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the > > > other....... > > > > > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls > > > between them...... > > > > That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the tango. > > You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. > > > > Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside fishdom > > tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops > > self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do not > > demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show > > awareness of 'other.' > > > > So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental than > > self. > > Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an infinity other > > 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the One > > be, not the Self, but.... The Other? > > > > I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, > > > > Pete > > > > > Hello my friend, > > There is no 'self' to be aware of....whether in a fish or a man.... > > Having a conception of something....does not mean that it is real... > > When so called self awareness occurs...it is only mind separating itself conceptually from the flow of all-that-is... > > This is the 'I Am'....this is the 'dream'...this is the illusion of separation....this is samsara. > > > This is the mind-bubble in which we live....and die......'we' cannot be outside of the bubble that mind has created....because 'we' are the bubble..... > > ********************************************* > > and the vastness in which it floats Come on, Toom! Show me something I don't know. I asked you about the other. We're dancing. Move! Or I'll step on your toes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > > > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > > > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the male > > > > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > > > > > > > > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > > > > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock > runs...he > > > > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate the > > > > other....... > > > > > > > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass walls > > > > between them...... > > > > > > That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the tango. > > > You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. > > > > > > Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside > fishdom > > > tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops > > > self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do not > > > demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show > > > awareness of 'other.' > > > > > > So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental > than > > > self. > > > Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an infinity > other > > > 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the > One > > > be, not the Self, but.... The Other? > > > > > > I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > Hello my friend, > > > > There is no 'self' to be aware of....whether in a fish or a man.... > > > > Having a conception of something....does not mean that it is real... > > > > When so called self awareness occurs...it is only mind separating > itself conceptually from the flow of all-that-is... > > > > This is the 'I Am'....this is the 'dream'...this is the illusion of > separation....this is samsara. > > > > > > This is the mind-bubble in which we live....and die......'we' > cannot be outside of the bubble that mind has created....because 'we' > are the bubble..... > > > > ********************************************* > > > > and the vastness in which it floats > > > Come on, Toom! Show me something I don't know. I asked you about the > other. We're dancing. Move! Or I'll step on your toes. Self and other are mutually co-existent..... I think it is a stretch to say that animals are aware of the 'other'. Animal's brains are hard wired to react to their enviornment and probably no not think in terms of something being other then themselves... The quality of " otherness " emerges simultanously with the conceptual separation of the 'meness' that occurs within the neurons in the brain of human beings..... OK...your turn to lead....... Where did you learn to dance like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " <toombaru2003> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " seesaw1us " <seesaw1us> > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2003 " > > > > <toombaru2003> wrote: > > > > > The young clerk placed the small round bowl containing the > male > > > > > fighting fish next to a mirror and said... " Watch this " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the fish became aware of its own image...his colors > > > > > intensefied.....his gills and fins flared...he made mock > > runs...he > > > > > displayed his broad side...all in an attempt to intimidate > the > > > > > other....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He didn't seem to realize that there were two solid glass > walls > > > > > between them...... > > > > > > > > That's a Good one, Toom! Let's dance with it, but, not the > tango. > > > > You're too ugly. Let's dance the twist. > > > > > > > > Since fish has no conception of self ( or so my spies inside > > fishdom > > > > tell me) Chimps are the only species known to us which develops > > > > self awareness after a few go at the mirror. Anyway, fish do > not > > > > demostrates awareness of self, but fish, and most animals show > > > > awareness of 'other.' > > > > > > > > So maybe, this 'other awareness' is prior and more fundamental > > than > > > > self. > > > > Could this be why, we sometimes feel the presence of an > infinity > > other > > > > 'inside'? Could Advaita be barking up the wrong tree? Could the > > One > > > > be, not the Self, but.... The Other? > > > > > > > > I got to sit down, my feet are killing me, > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello my friend, > > > > > > There is no 'self' to be aware of....whether in a fish or a > man.... > > > > > > Having a conception of something....does not mean that it is > real... > > > > > > When so called self awareness occurs...it is only mind separating > > itself conceptually from the flow of all-that-is... > > > > > > This is the 'I Am'....this is the 'dream'...this is the illusion > of > > separation....this is samsara. > > > > > > > > > This is the mind-bubble in which we live....and die......'we' > > cannot be outside of the bubble that mind has > created....because 'we' > > are the bubble..... > > > > > > ********************************************* > > > > > > and the vastness in which it floats > > > > > > Come on, Toom! Show me something I don't know. I asked you about the > > other. We're dancing. Move! Or I'll step on your toes. > > > > Self and other are mutually co-existent..... > > I think it is a stretch to say that animals are aware of the 'other'. P:Your little fish wouldn't have taken the fighting stance against a leave floating around, so some kind of awareness of his own kind is there. > Animal's brains are hard wired to react to their enviornment and > probably no not think in terms of something being other then > themselves... P: I never mentioned the word thinking. Most mental processes don't involve thinking. For example distinguishing a pain in the gut as coming from the inside and a loud noise as coming from the outside. > > The quality of " otherness " emerges simultanously with the conceptual > separation of the 'meness' that occurs within the neurons in the > brain of human beings..... P: I don't think so, animals can detect their own kind from strangers. Anyway, animal behaviour, was just the spark that got this moving, and not the destination. The point being, that otherness is more basic and instintual, and self only conceptual. The Unknown when confronted with his own existence ,in the mirror of consciousness, sees itself as the other. Much as a fighting fish does in a mirror. When the brain develops sufficiently to conceive of a self, this self is never the Unknown, but a familiar other, or proxy, a mask to present to those less intimate 'others.' When this self mask is seen through, the brain initially senses the Unknown as an infinite otherness, some people have call that God. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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