silence & witness

[Guest guest]

My general fear regarding spiritual things was about

kundalini. Usually when I sit to meditate, there

arises a fire which is not fire and with appearance of

thoughts, that wave of fire shakes something inside.

The intensity and the quality of thoughts (and my

internal dialogue) would change with it.

 

Yesterday, I came unto the full conclusion that I have

no better job (or no greater aim) other than to remain

silent. Thoughts became uninteresting. I put aside my

fear of " kundalini death " or psychosis scenarios. (And

decided to enjoy death, should it come to me )

 

Then the thoughts diminished and eventually

disappeared completely. I was only aware of myself

(and the fire which is not fire) and nothing else.

 

Then (with a surrendering attitude) what I took to be

myself disappeared also. The body sensation (and fire)

was no more. " I " realized that " I " was hidden by a

transparent curtain. I (or it) was weightless. It (or

I) was effortless. I wasn't hanging on to anything. I

was just " be-ing " . I was there all the time, but

couldn't come to my senses because of believing what I

perceived. Words utterly fail me, and as I read what I

write, I'm afraid I sound cheap, but there's nothing I

can do about it.

 

No forms, nothing, just me be-ing. It was the witness,

or also the original me. So simple. But it is not the

" me " I mean. Effortless is the word. Just watching.

Above all. Behind everything. Beyond. And I now know

that this body is imagined. I was the source beyond

all states. Everything is imagined. Then, with a

surprise, that eternity which appeared for an instant

was velied again. My thoughts were running in wildly

and I was asking a zillion questions to myself. I

remained for hours thinking about this. I couldn't

think of anything else. Yet I know, no effort will

take me there again. None ever can.

 

As a matter of fact, I never went anywhere. Things

come to " me " . After calming down, what I need to do

is, shut off the mind, just like switching the TV off.

When you watch TV, you forget that it's an

electronical device, and when you watch, you don't see

the television, but " become " what you see on TV. Upon

shutting it off though, you remember it's only TV.

 

What's interesting is, I feel like a part of my life

dissolved into nothingness, yet some other part is

still there. That's why I came back, so to speak.

 

Yet now I know for SURE, it is not a function of mind.

Mind is the TV. I watch it. Even now as I write, part

of me is amazed at the words. For the mind this is an

experience. For me, there are no experiences. I am

what I am, all the time. I am real. It's a childish

joy to realize it.

 

But I lost it. That is, that which thinks " has lost

it " , never had it.

 

I'm desperately hoping for heartfelt replies. Is there

anyone who truthfully can say understands what I'm

talking about?

 

Tansel

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

That was very interesting. Did you practise the witness attitude " I

am " to remove the obstacles to arrive at this state or did you do

some other sadhana? I know that you would say the this state is

arrived by effortlessness but nonetheless I am curious. I am able to

come to a still and desireless state, but after remaining in that

state for about an hour. I don't know what to do after that; the

mind reminds me of some work and though there is no compulsion to act

on that desire, I still do move on to the state of activity, thinking

that the state of silence is not going to last for ever. I have not

come to the other states where you see that the mind can be switched

off etc. Your feed back would be greatly appreciated. Though it

doesn't mean anything to you, I would still appreciate it.

 

From A sincere seeker

Shiva

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , Tansel Coskuner

<just4teof> wrote:

> My general fear regarding spiritual things was about

> kundalini. Usually when I sit to meditate, there

> arises a fire which is not fire and with appearance of

> thoughts, that wave of fire shakes something inside.

> The intensity and the quality of thoughts (and my

> internal dialogue) would change with it.

>

> Yesterday, I came unto the full conclusion that I have

> no better job (or no greater aim) other than to remain

> silent. Thoughts became uninteresting. I put aside my

> fear of " kundalini death " or psychosis scenarios. (And

> decided to enjoy death, should it come to me )

>

> Then the thoughts diminished and eventually

> disappeared completely. I was only aware of myself

> (and the fire which is not fire) and nothing else.

>

> Then (with a surrendering attitude) what I took to be

> myself disappeared also. The body sensation (and fire)

> was no more. " I " realized that " I " was hidden by a

> transparent curtain. I (or it) was weightless. It (or

> I) was effortless. I wasn't hanging on to anything. I

> was just " be-ing " . I was there all the time, but

> couldn't come to my senses because of believing what I

> perceived. Words utterly fail me, and as I read what I

> write, I'm afraid I sound cheap, but there's nothing I

> can do about it.

>

> No forms, nothing, just me be-ing. It was the witness,

> or also the original me. So simple. But it is not the

> " me " I mean. Effortless is the word. Just watching.

> Above all. Behind everything. Beyond. And I now know

> that this body is imagined. I was the source beyond

> all states. Everything is imagined. Then, with a

> surprise, that eternity which appeared for an instant

> was velied again. My thoughts were running in wildly

> and I was asking a zillion questions to myself. I

> remained for hours thinking about this. I couldn't

> think of anything else. Yet I know, no effort will

> take me there again. None ever can.

>

> As a matter of fact, I never went anywhere. Things

> come to " me " . After calming down, what I need to do

> is, shut off the mind, just like switching the TV off.

> When you watch TV, you forget that it's an

> electronical device, and when you watch, you don't see

> the television, but " become " what you see on TV. Upon

> shutting it off though, you remember it's only TV.

>

> What's interesting is, I feel like a part of my life

> dissolved into nothingness, yet some other part is

> still there. That's why I came back, so to speak.

>

> Yet now I know for SURE, it is not a function of mind.

> Mind is the TV. I watch it. Even now as I write, part

> of me is amazed at the words. For the mind this is an

> experience. For me, there are no experiences. I am

> what I am, all the time. I am real. It's a childish

> joy to realize it.

>

> But I lost it. That is, that which thinks " has lost

> it " , never had it.

>

> I'm desperately hoping for heartfelt replies. Is there

> anyone who truthfully can say understands what I'm

> talking about?

>

> Tansel

 

Why the desperation? You say yourself, the one that had it didn't

loose it. You want it with your mind. Your mind wants this. But it's

the TV! You are imagining yourself to be the TV program...again.

 

Is there two of you?

 

))))))))Shawn

[Guest guest]

Dear Tansel,

 

I had this too. Not through meditation I fell into it but through a

sudden realization that the ego, the me, is something good. And I

lost that state too, because in that state I felt a deep

responsibility for whole mankind, so to be able to bring it to others

I analyzed how I got into it - and it faded away.

 

I never thought that I could lose it again because the whole thing

was so obvious, so utter simple.

 

What I see now that to recapture it, this " I wanna have it gagain " ,

is a hindrance, an obstacle because the whole thing already became an

experience wich the " me " already took over.

 

Everything is ok, just go on, Tansel.

 

Werner

[Guest guest]

intensity draws out simplicity into something seemingly extrordinary,

silence intensifies simplicity making it seem extrordinary,

and

then i gotta pee

and then a baby laughs while mom tickles his nose

and then a half-a-squirrel's left in the road,

and then someone's raped, born, in love, acting out history's hatred of itself

and "keep it simple stupid!" is heard

and i'm wept open again... not so intense,

not so profound...

through it all,

thisShawn Hair <shawn wrote:

Nisargadatta , Tansel Coskuner <just4teof> wrote:> My general fear regarding spiritual things was about> kundalini. Usually when I sit to meditate, there> arises a fire which is not fire and with appearance of> thoughts, that wave of fire shakes something inside.> The intensity and the quality of thoughts (and my> internal dialogue) would change with it.> > Yesterday, I came unto the full conclusion that I have> no better job (or no greater aim) other than to remain> silent. Thoughts became uninteresting. I put aside my> fear of "kundalini death" or psychosis scenarios. (And> decided to enjoy death, should it come to me )> > Then the thoughts diminished and eventually> disappeared completely. I was only aware of myself> (and the

fire which is not fire) and nothing else.> > Then (with a surrendering attitude) what I took to be> myself disappeared also. The body sensation (and fire)> was no more. "I" realized that "I" was hidden by a> transparent curtain. I (or it) was weightless. It (or> I) was effortless. I wasn't hanging on to anything. I> was just "be-ing". I was there all the time, but> couldn't come to my senses because of believing what I> perceived. Words utterly fail me, and as I read what I> write, I'm afraid I sound cheap, but there's nothing I> can do about it.> > No forms, nothing, just me be-ing. It was the witness,> or also the original me. So simple. But it is not the> "me" I mean. Effortless is the word. Just watching.> Above all. Behind everything. Beyond. And I now know> that this body is imagined. I was the source beyond> all states. Everything is imagined. Then,

with a> surprise, that eternity which appeared for an instant> was velied again. My thoughts were running in wildly> and I was asking a zillion questions to myself. I> remained for hours thinking about this. I couldn't> think of anything else. Yet I know, no effort will> take me there again. None ever can.> > As a matter of fact, I never went anywhere. Things> come to "me". After calming down, what I need to do> is, shut off the mind, just like switching the TV off.> When you watch TV, you forget that it's an> electronical device, and when you watch, you don't see> the television, but "become" what you see on TV. Upon> shutting it off though, you remember it's only TV.> > What's interesting is, I feel like a part of my life> dissolved into nothingness, yet some other part is> still there. That's why I came back, so to speak.> > Yet now I know

for SURE, it is not a function of mind.> Mind is the TV. I watch it. Even now as I write, part> of me is amazed at the words. For the mind this is an> experience. For me, there are no experiences. I am> what I am, all the time. I am real. It's a childish> joy to realize it.> > But I lost it. That is, that which thinks "has lost> it", never had it.> > I'm desperately hoping for heartfelt replies. Is there> anyone who truthfully can say understands what I'm> talking about?> > TanselWhy the desperation? You say yourself, the one that had it didn't loose it. You want it with your mind. Your mind wants this. But it's the TV! You are imagining yourself to be the TV program...again.Is there two of you?))))))))Shawn**If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1Under the Message Delivery option, choose "No Email" for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes.

[Guest guest]

You're absolutely right. For hours that " experience "

rolled in my mind. Over and over again. I couldn't

think of anything else. Perhaps if I tried *hard

enough* I could re-capture it? LOL!

 

Yes, the very idea of recapturing it is an attachment.

These last few days weren't that easy. I lost a part

of myself. Some of my interests, habits and some of my

fears too.

 

I felt, like I was a child again. I also tried to talk

about this to a few friends of mine. It is ridiculous

to talk to people who have no idea about what we're

talking about. I find it funny now.

 

But it is a fearful thing too. The world out there

suddenly looses its meaning. And nothing to do about

it.

 

Everything clicks in me now. Yet there's nothing I can

do. Damn, I was sooooo mySELF!

 

 

 

> Dear Tansel,

>

> I had this too. Not through meditation I fell into

> it but through a

> sudden realization that the ego, the me, is

> something good. And I

> lost that state too, because in that state I felt a

> deep

> responsibility for whole mankind, so to be able to

> bring it to others

> I analyzed how I got into it - and it faded away.

>

> I never thought that I could lose it again because

> the whole thing

> was so obvious, so utter simple.

>

> What I see now that to recapture it, this " I wanna

> have it gagain " ,

> is a hindrance, an obstacle because the whole thing

> already became an

> experience wich the " me " already took over.

>

> Everything is ok, just go on, Tansel.

>

> Werner

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The proper answer would be : I am already the witness.

How can I practice that which already is? The real is

not imagined. There's no need to imagine a new

witness.

 

But I do understand very well what you're talking

about )

 

Don't fight it. Leave it. Surrender.

 

In my case, before silence, a lightning quick series

of thoughts occured in my mind. I firmly stated " I

have no higher goal, no greater aim in life. " This

statement cleared the path for me. It means accepting

every risk, including death, and all this being

nonsense.

 

I haven't really studied meditation. I read Bhagavad

Gita almost everyday (for several years now). Thinking

about and acting as stated in the Gita, is the only

sadhana I ever did.

 

I was just silent. I surrendered to what I do not

know. A cold fire inside me evoked, that shakes the

insides of me. I ignored all the thoughts. Unknowingly

something triggered something and I took a VERY DEEP

breath from my nose. I remembered something from the

Gita talking about fixing the lifebreath somewhere.

Too bad, I always ignored that part for I never

understood what lifebreath was! I ignored it

anyway.

 

Then the world was no more. The thoughts were no more.

And to my astonishment, the daily " I " was no more too.

 

Then I appeared beyond all. I was already there. There

was nothing " new " to discover. Who should discover

whom? It was effortless. It means " I am " . I do not

need anything extra to be myself. I am REAL and

confident. And I always was.

 

The instant the mind understood the idea behind it

(The identification with the witness snaps, so says

Maharaj.), it was in shock.

 

How can I pretend to be what I am, when now I know for

sure what I am not? Thus, the world out there now is

losing its meaning fast. I am de-personalizing. It

means the false I is willing to die. It is OK with it

to end. It is utterly confused though.

 

I firmly understand now that we can't do anything

about anything. This used to be a statement that never

got me anywhere before.

 

Giving up, surrendering, not being attracted to

anything. To be out of the game. To be free and

unconcerned. There's only the truth, the reality. We

have heard these words for more times we care to

remember, yet they only start to click when you

realize.

 

 

 

> That was very interesting. Did you practise the

> witness attitude " I

> am " to remove the obstacles to arrive at this state

> or did you do

> some other sadhana? I know that you would say the

> this state is

> arrived by effortlessness but nonetheless I am

> curious. I am able to

> come to a still and desireless state, but after

> remaining in that

> state for about an hour. I don't know what to do

> after that; the

> mind reminds me of some work and though there is no

> compulsion to act

> on that desire, I still do move on to the state of

> activity, thinking

> that the state of silence is not going to last for

> ever. I have not

> come to the other states where you see that the mind

> can be switched

> off etc. Your feed back would be greatly

> appreciated. Though it

> doesn't mean anything to you, I would still

> appreciate it.

>

> From A sincere seeker

> Shiva

>

 

 

 

 

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