Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Hi All, Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu Krishnamurthy. Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets the doubt " - Thanks, Sai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " <saikumar_durga> wrote: > Hi All, > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > Krishnamurthy. > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > the doubt " - > Thanks, There once was a man who became the worlds' authority on fingerprint anaylsis......He never saw the moon. > Sai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. That is one of the beauties of his teaching. As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if he were advocating a mantra! -Bill saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM Nisargadatta Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... Hi All, Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu Krishnamurthy. Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets the doubt " - Thanks, Sai. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I know that " I am " is not mantra - and I understand that 'focus' is not the right word - being with the feeling of 'I am ' (or what the people here say awareness of awareness) - is that not that he did to realize the truth. Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > he were advocating a mantra! > > -Bill > > > > > saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] > Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM > Nisargadatta > Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... > > > Hi All, > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > Krishnamurthy. > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > the doubt " - > Thanks, > Sai. > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " <saikumar_durga> wrote: > Hi All, > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > Krishnamurthy. > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > the doubt " - > Thanks, > Sai. Hi Sai -- here is the 'core' of K's teaching. It is really difficult to summarize his teaching. One can spend a lot of time with his thought. It was useful for me to do so. Joe -- The core of Krishnamurti's teaching is contained in the statement he made in 1929 when he said: `Truth is a pathless land'. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique.He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection. Man has built in himself images as a fence of security - religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man's thinking, his relationships, and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind. The content of his consciousness is his entire existence. This content is common to all humanity. The individuality is the name, the form and superficial culture he acquires from tradition and environment. The uniqueness of man does not lie in the superficial but in complete freedom from the content of his consciousness, which is common to all mankind. So he is not an individual. Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man's pretense that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity. Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge, which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever-limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution. When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind. Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " > <saikumar_durga> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > > Krishnamurthy. > > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and > RamanaMaharshi > > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea > of > > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who > gets > > the doubt " - > > Thanks, > > > > > There once was a man who became the worlds' authority on fingerprint > anaylsis......He never saw the moon. He was sentenced to life in prison.........but continued to collect cook books.... > > Sai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " > > <saikumar_durga> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > > > Krishnamurthy. > > > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and > > RamanaMaharshi > > > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > > > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > > > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > > > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > > > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the > idea > > of > > > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > > > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance > in > > > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who > > gets > > > the doubt " - > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > There once was a man who became the worlds' authority on > fingerprint > > anaylsis......He never saw the moon. > > > > > He was sentenced to life in prison.........but continued to collect > cook books.... > On the rare occasion when a butterfly entered his cell, he would catch it and pin it to the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > he were advocating a mantra! > > -Bill > > > > > saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] > Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM > Nisargadatta > Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... > > > Hi All, > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > Krishnamurthy. > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > the doubt " - > Thanks, > Sai. > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > he were advocating a mantra! > > -Bill > > > > > saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] > Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM > Nisargadatta > Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... > > > Hi All, > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > Krishnamurthy. > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and RamanaMaharshi > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea of > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > the doubt " - > Thanks, > Sai. > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > he were advocating a mantra! > > -Bill True, he meant understand first-hand, experientially, how " I am " arises as central to the condition you consider as " being. " -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " <saikumar_durga> wrote: > I know that " I am " is not mantra - and I understand that 'focus' is > not the right word - being with the feeling of 'I am ' (or what the > people here say awareness of awareness) - is that not that he did to > realize the truth. Isn't it more relevant to look into " what is the truth, first-hand, here, now " ? If you agree -- what is the first-hand truth to you now, here. What is your understanding? Is it the same as someone else's? How would you be able to tell -- for example, if it is the same as K's or N's? Do you know theirs first-hand? And, if what they were expressing was their first-hand truth, rather than trying to understand what their truth was from their words, isn't it much more effective to know first-hand truth, as it is, and express that? And then, however their words affect you, that's how their words affect you -- the same as with anyone else's words. Words can only be objects of perception, for a perceiver of word objects. They can't be anything more than that -- they can't be living, first-hand truth, that doesn't depend on anything else, anyone else, no construction of an object, nor construction of a subject to know and object. -- Dan > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > > he were advocating a mantra! > > > > -Bill > > > > > > > > > > saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] > > Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM > > Nisargadatta > > Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > > Krishnamurthy. > > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and > RamanaMaharshi > > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea > of > > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > > the doubt " - > > Thanks, > > Sai. > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta > > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Deep Bow -Bill dan330033 [dan330033] Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:58 PM Nisargadatta Re: Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " <saikumar_durga> wrote: > I know that " I am " is not mantra - and I understand that 'focus' is > not the right word - being with the feeling of 'I am ' (or what the > people here say awareness of awareness) - is that not that he did to > realize the truth. Isn't it more relevant to look into " what is the truth, first-hand, here, now " ? If you agree -- what is the first-hand truth to you now, here. What is your understanding? Is it the same as someone else's? How would you be able to tell -- for example, if it is the same as K's or N's? Do you know theirs first-hand? And, if what they were expressing was their first-hand truth, rather than trying to understand what their truth was from their words, isn't it much more effective to know first-hand truth, as it is, and express that? And then, however their words affect you, that's how their words affect you -- the same as with anyone else's words. Words can only be objects of perception, for a perceiver of word objects. They can't be anything more than that -- they can't be living, first-hand truth, that doesn't depend on anything else, anyone else, no construction of an object, nor construction of a subject to know and object. -- Dan > > Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > > You can't summarize Krishnamurti succinctly. > > That is one of the beauties of his teaching. > > > > As for your summary of Nisargadatta, to sum him up > > that way is nonsense. 1) he said a whole lot more > > than that. 2) he didn't say *focus* on " I am " . > > 3) If you don't know what he meant by " I am " what is > > it worth? He didn't mean *the words* " I am " as if > > he were advocating a mantra! > > > > -Bill > > > > > > > > > > saikumar_durga [saikumar_durga] > > Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:34 AM > > Nisargadatta > > Nisargadatta , Jiddu Krishnamurthy .... > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > > Krishnamurthy. > > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and > RamanaMaharshi > > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the idea > of > > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer (relevance in > > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who gets > > the doubt " - > > Thanks, > > Sai. > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta > > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <toombaru> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " saikumar_durga " > > > <saikumar_durga> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > Can someone explain me the jist of the philosophy of Jiddu > > > > Krishnamurthy. > > > > Is his philosophy the same as that of Nisargadatta and > > > RamanaMaharshi > > > > (I suppose all are Jnana Yogis). > > > > Nisargadatta - " Just be or focus on " I am " " > > > > Ramana Maharshi - " Be as you are " or " Who am I " > > > > Jiddu KrishnaMurthy - I think though he stressed on the same > > > > thing " self Knowledge " and " Know thyself " - he put aside the > > idea > > > of > > > > sitting in medidation with legs crossed in a closed room. > > > > If someone wants to answer pls give a relevant answer > (relevance > > in > > > > my view) - not something like - " who is the questioner? " - " who > > > gets > > > > the doubt " - > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There once was a man who became the worlds' authority on > > fingerprint > > > anaylsis......He never saw the moon. > > > > > > > > > > He was sentenced to life in prison.........but continued to collect > > cook books.... > > > > > > On the rare occasion when a butterfly entered his cell, he would > catch it and pin it to the wall. When he died he asked to be cremated with his books and butterflies. His wish will probably be granted. Now.......What was your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Nisargadatta , " Bill Rishel " <plexus@x> wrote: > Deep Bow > > -Bill And right back at you, Bill. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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