TO PAUL--Awareness and consciousness

[Guest guest]

Hello from a newcomer:

Re: " That's why it is preferable and... easier (oh yes!)... to be

enlightened and realized yourself. That way you don't have to look

for interpretation and meaning. "

this seems to be the position of all the " masters " i've studied: it's

beyond intellect and must be experienced first hand. the

few " realizations " i've had were beyond my intellect and very

difficult to articulate in common words although the experience was

describeable in general. (same with my wife!) i noticed that the

sayings of nisargadatta and ramana, etc. made more " sense " after i

had an experience than before. also, much of what i used to be

confussed with or need to " figure out " isn't so important anymore,

but i still think it's ok to study, debate and reason.

yours, jim

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta, " Wim Borsboom " <wim@a...> wrote:

> Dear El and Paul,

>

> I appreciate what you wrote!

>

> You wrote though:

> > The REAL YOU is the CHANGELESS.

>

> The *REAL* YOU?

>

> Of course in what you wrote and what follows, we could substitute

the word

> 'I' for 'you'... but okay... that is only minor. (And anyway, in

full

> reality of love there is no distinction between you and I.)

>

> Aside from that, it does not serve a useful purpose 'in and for

> realization', to call one thing 'real', as distinct from something

else that

> may be called 'unreal'.

>

> > The REAL YOU is the CHANGELESS.

>

> Of course, the changeful is really you as well...just changeful.

>

> It is that miraculous creative faculty of yours..., originating in

you, from

> you...

>

> We are the cause AND effect of our being... really!

>

> In reality there is no distinction between 'changeless'

and 'changeful'.

>

> Terms like 'changeless' and 'changeful' are only concepts...

> Concepts are not real, concepts have no value in reality...

>

> Reality is...

> Concepts are not...

>

> If anything, concepts are mnemonic tools that may - or may not -

aid in

> realization. Full realization discounts and discards all concepts.

>

> In reality one cannot to the idea that the 'changeless is

real'

> and that the 'changeful is illusion'. The changeful may be maya all

right,

> but maya is not the same as illusion...

>

> A lot, if not all, is lost in the translation...

>

> That's why it is preferable and... easier (oh yes!)... to be

enlightened and

> realized yourself. That way you don't have to look for

interpretation and

> meaning.

>

> So get with it... realize that you are it...

>

> Love, El... Wim

>

> PS.

> No criticism intended... just pointing out the need express oneself

> correctly... the first step to regain one's realization.

>

>

> elizabeth_wells2001

[elizabeth_wells2001]

> Thursday, September 20, 2001 12:29 PM

> Nisargadatta

> TO PAUL--Re: Awareness and

consciousness

>

>

> Paul:

>

> Forget the dictionary.

> Catch the gist.

>

>

> What appears and disappers,

> --what is CHANGEFUL --

> falls under the word consciousness.

>

> What does not appear and disappear,

> --what is CHANGELESS--

> falls under the word Awareness.

>

> The CHANGEFUL appears and disappears

> in the CHANGELESS.

>

> The REAL YOU is the CHANGELESS.

>

> El

>

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jim,

 

You wrote:

>>> much of what i used to be

confussed with or need to " figure out " isn't so important anymore,

but i still think it's ok to study, debate and reason.<<<

 

Of course, realizing is a process... first one gets bouts of enlightened

insights... then one realizes it more and more... until one discovers one

was fully realized from the 'get go'.

And it is good to write about IT...

 

>>> (same with my wife!) <<<

 

So good to hear that...

 

Neat stuff... this reality...

 

Love to you and your wife, Jim...Wim

 

 

 

 

---

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[Guest guest]

Namaste

I"m new to the group. El , I really like the analysis of the difference between awareness and consciousness you wrote. I can't help feel that there really isn't an interface between consciousness and awarenss. Self realization doesn't exsist , I think in the sense of our consciousness blissing out and going on the awareness ride. We can't go on the ride! I feel that when Awareness blossoms forth consciousness has long since taken a hike. Just my 2 cents worth.

Much Light

Larry

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows---- elizabeth_wells2001 Nisargadatta Nisargadatta TO PAUL--Re: Awareness and consciousness Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:28:34 -0000

 

Paul:

Forget the dictionary. Catch the gist.

 

What appears and disappers, --what is CHANGEFUL -- falls under the word consciousness.

What does not appear and disappear, --what is CHANGELESS-- falls under the word Awareness.

The CHANGEFUL appears and disappears in the CHANGELESS.

The REAL YOU is the CHANGELESS.

El

 

------------------- Maharaj:

AWARENESS is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change.

 

CONSCIOUSNESS is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality.

 

 

There can be no consciousness without Awareness,

but there can be Awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep.

 

 

Awareness is Absolute,

consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something.

 

 

Consciousness is partial and changeful,

AWARENESS is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.

 

 

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