Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Is there a need for the outer guru? Isn't life the guru? When do you need to apply a method? caiti Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 No outer guru needed Caiti, but understanding friends...? Yes, which means move into the world of unconditional love one little step at a time. The only world without a path, The only world without a method. The only real world where you can just be Where you don't have to get anywhere, Or become anybody... No methods that can succeed or fail, no expectations that can be fulfilled or not. The little steps you take will make that world revolve. You stay in place, just stepping along and the world moves you... A different kind of moving... The move to admiration wonder Oh, and unconditional love is probably not what you think it is, But maybe, Caiti, you can say something about it first, before I get deeper into it... Love, Wim Caiti [caitionline] Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:46 AM Nisargadatta Guru/method Is there a need for the outer guru? Isn't life the guru? When do you need to apply a method? caiti Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 well, for me it was like a push... I got to the point where there as me and God (everyone but me) and was sort of dumbified by that and didn't know the next step really.... was stuck in self-hate.... Then the Guru told me the way it was and gave me a way to find the inner self. So, with me it was a Guru, though it all happened before " physical in person meeting " ... although as I recall, I watched a video of my Guru, and then the next day, when I got up from sleep, it was Her who woke me up in sort of a dreamy subtleness like a ghost! She said, " Get up and go to work " and it was funny, but everyone at worked seemed much nicer... A couple weeks later and it was like a lightning bolt to the heart.... ignition I suppose its true, when the student is ready; the teacher appears... I wasn't looking for a Guru, but got one anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Wim, it sounds gentle.... relaxing into that, putting down the armour bit by bit. caiti Thanks a lot. I'm moved by your words. --- Wim Borsboom <wim wrote: > No outer guru needed Caiti, > but understanding friends...? > Yes, > which means > move into the world > of unconditional love > one little step at a time. > > The only world without a path, > The only world without a method. > > The only real world where you can just be > Where you don't have to get anywhere, > Or become anybody... > No methods that can succeed or fail, > no expectations that can be fulfilled or not. > > The little steps you take will make that world revolve. > You stay in place, > just stepping along and > the world moves you... > A different kind of moving... > The move to admiration > > wonder > > Oh, and unconditional love is probably not what you think > it is, > But maybe, Caiti, you can say something about it first, > before I get deeper into it... > > Love, Wim Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Thanks Paul for sharing. So far I never had this " one time lightening " experience and a feeling " that's it-this is the person " . Guides come and go....the last one mentioned Nisargadattas book I Am That. When the words are true they sound so no matter who uttered them, I feel. Otherwise I do not know whom to believe... it is not about belief... It feels like I finally need to turn inward, however that is done....I am actually a bit confused by that, it sounds strange perhaps, but look inwards, aha, how...close eyes and sit or just be with myself. I sit when it hapens otherwise not so much. I know that Silence is carying it All. What is Is. Wonder as Wim said. I do not always stay put. Thinking saved me many times so previously I relied on my head a lot. I have to trust the heart more.... greetings to you caiti Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Nisargadatta, " Paul " <pjcote@l...> wrote: > well, for me it was like a push... > I got to the point where there as me and God (everyone but me) and > was sort of dumbified by that and didn't know the next step really.... Namaste Paul, Ultimately there is no 'God', for that is a concept as we are....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Nisargadatta, Caiti <caitionline> wrote: > Wim, > it sounds gentle.... relaxing into that, putting down the > armour bit by bit. > caiti > Thanks a lot. I'm moved by your words. > > > > --- Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > > No outer guru needed Caiti, > > but understanding friends...? > > Yes, > > which means > > move into the world > > of unconditional love > > one little step at a time. > > > > The only world without a path, > > The only world without a method. > > > > The only real world where you can just be > > Where you don't have to get anywhere, > > Or become anybody... > > No methods that can succeed or fail, > > no expectations that can be fulfilled or not. > > > > The little steps you take will make that world revolve. > > You stay in place, > > just stepping along and > > the world moves you... > > A different kind of moving... > > The move to admiration > > > > wonder > > > > Oh, and unconditional love is probably not what you think > > it is, > > But maybe, Caiti, you can say something about it first, > > before I get deeper into it... > > > > Love, Wim Namaste Caiti, Unconditional Love as a goal is an illusion, as Sivananda would say 'God', is Love (Energy), whereas Wisdom is Brahman. I would say that wisdom is still Saguna. There is only Nirguna/Nirvana. This may all sound a little confusing to you, but this list is a non dual list as Nisargadatta was an advaitin. You will become confused unless you know from which angle one is speaking. Wim is essentially a dualist, and doesn't negate the world but regards it as a reality. You probably would get more help in this direction from a less philosphical list, like Harshasatsangh for example, where there are many neophytes, in fact it is quite full of them........ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2001 Report Share Posted September 5, 2001 Caiti wrote wrote [[is there a need for the outer guru? Isn't life the guru? When do you need to apply a method?]] ** There are many approachs on this journey Caiti. Some kind souls need assistance, others do not. We are each wonderfully differently. An outer guru may be of benefit for those who need a physical example. However, remember that this guru is human - just as you are. That this guru has the same potential, the same 'connections' as you do. Do not use this guru as a crutch, but as a 'guru' - a " dispeller of darkness " . In all cases, take what you need & leave the rest. Then, one day, you will realize that You are all you ever needed. Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 Yogini S(h)akti, Thank you very much for your answer. That is about how I feel it when I dare to trust myself and not so much the " authority words " of different gurus. What is needed will appear. To discern and trust the " right " voice inside which knows what the direction is might be the challenge. I am like Socrates, the longer it goes the more prone I am to say I know that I do not know. Thank you everybody on the list for listening and responding. I feel that this is the space where I dare to ask these questions which I normaly do not voice aloud. When I visited scientific or psychological discussion forums I felt that people there were very much caught up in the different systems of thought and rather unwilling to let go of them...here I sense more freedom. Thank you all. caiti Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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