Guest guest Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Rob in quotes: " You are arguing against a strawman here, Alton. " " He didn't say that other thoughts cannot be related to each other. He said that the I-thought is the only thought that is necessary for other thoughts to exist. " Alton: I am not fully convinced that the I-thought is the only thought necessary for other thoughts to exist. It is apparent that Ramana at least tacitly claims that he has no I- thoughts and that his mind is dead, but he than says that he thinks when answering questions or reading. It follows then that with no I- thought other thoughts can still exits. Also it depends on how you define essential. The philosophers carefully defined their terms before presenting there particular philosophy. FUNDAMENTAL applies to something that is a foundation without which an entire system or complex whole would collapse If one goes back to the first thought in a series of charged attention grabbing thoughts and see the incident exactly as it happened all the other related thoughts that follow would also be voided, so we have to conclude that the primary thought in that chain is essential to the ones that follow. If when we were young we belonged to a culture that claimed that we are NOT, then the " I am not " thought would be the primary thought. Right? LOL. I have some time today so I thought I would have fun and wake you up. Love, Alton Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > You are arguing against a strawman here, Alton. > > He didn't say that other thoughts cannot be related to > each other. He said that the I-thought is the only thought > that is necessary for other thoughts to exist. > > > - > " Master of Change " <lostnfoundation> > <Realization > > Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:32 PM > Ramana was wrong.. Re: Self Inquiry Theory > > > > A Ramana snip from Self Inquiry Theory.. > > > > " Although the concept of 'I'-ness or 'I am'-ness is by usage known > > as aham-vritti it is not really a vritti [modification] like other > > vrittis of the mind. Because unlike the other vrittis which have no > > essential interrelation, the aham-vritti is equally and essentially > > related to each and every vritti of the mind. Without the aham- vritti > > there can be no other vritti, but the aham-vritti can subsist by > > itself > > without depending on any other vritti of the mind. > > The aham-vritti is therefore fundamentally different from other > > vrittis. " > > > > The other vrittis may be related to each other. For example, you > > were abused as a child many times with a lot of different > > experiences. The repressed memories are stored in the subconscious > > and bubble up into consciousness as thoughts or mental states. One > > thought on that subject may therefore be connected to all other > > thoughts that may arise from those earlier similar experiences. The > > charge and stress that ensues when one thought bubbles into > > consciousness is increased by all the other similar experiences. > > Therefore those thoughts have an essential relationship. > > > > Another example. Someone calls you stupid for the first time. You > > react somewhat but not significantly. Then people continue to call > > you stupid and each time they do there is more stress experienced. > > The aggregate of those thoughts compounds the degrees of the > > reactions. > > Now when someone calls you stupid you may get so angry that you > > become violent. You then take up meditation and those thoughts again > > surface into consciousness and because there are so many similar > > incidents each thought has so much debilitating interconnected > > charge. Again we must conclude that those thoughts have an > > essential relationship. > > > > Namaste, > > Alton > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 It doesn't bother me at all that this group died out. Most of the talk that goes on in these mail groups seems like bs to me. About once a week, somebody writes to the realization.org website with a question about something specific, and I enjoy answering those. - " Master of Change " <lostnfoundation <Realization > Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:01 PM Ramana was wrong.. Re: Self Inquiry Theory > > > Dear Rob; > The group I moderate is almost that way too. So you are high and > supurbly knowledgeable about spirituality and I grovel in the dirt > with weird interpretations, but still our groups a similar. > Anyway I wont give up Exclusive because when I post something I read > it many times and continue my studies. > > Love, > Alton > > Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > > Either way, I think we can safely say the group is moribund. > > > > - > > " Master of Change " <lostnfoundation> > > <Realization > > > Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:34 PM > > Ramana was wrong.. Re: Self Inquiry Theory > > > > > > > If no one responds to this offering, then shall we pronounce > this > > > group moribund? > > > > > > Love, > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > Realization , " Master of Change " > > > <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > > > A Ramana snip from Self Inquiry Theory.. > > > > > > > > " Although the concept of 'I'-ness or 'I am'-ness is by usage > known > > > > as aham-vritti it is not really a vritti [modification] like > other > > > > vrittis of the mind. Because unlike the other vrittis which > have no > > > > essential interrelation, the aham-vritti is equally and > essentially > > > > related to each and every vritti of the mind. Without the aham- > > > vritti > > > > there can be no other vritti, but the aham-vritti can subsist > by > > > > itself > > > > without depending on any other vritti of the mind. > > > > The aham-vritti is therefore fundamentally different from > other > > > > vrittis. " > > > > > > > > The other vrittis may be related to each other. For example, > you > > > > were abused as a child many times with a lot of different > > > > experiences. The repressed memories are stored in the > > > subconscious > > > > and bubble up into consciousness as thoughts or mental > states. > > > One > > > > thought on that subject may therefore be connected to all > other > > > > thoughts that may arise from those earlier similar > experiences. > > > The > > > > charge and stress that ensues when one thought bubbles into > > > > consciousness is increased by all the other similar > experiences. > > > > Therefore those thoughts have an essential relationship. > > > > > > > > Another example. Someone calls you stupid for the first time. > You > > > > react somewhat but not significantly. Then people continue to > call > > > > you stupid and each time they do there is more stress > experienced. > > > > The aggregate of those thoughts compounds the degrees of the > > > > reactions. > > > > Now when someone calls you stupid you may get so angry that > you > > > > become violent. You then take up meditation and those thoughts > > > again > > > > surface into consciousness and because there are so many > similar > > > > incidents each thought has so much debilitating > interconnected > > > > charge. Again we must conclude that those thoughts have an > > > > essential relationship. > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > > > > > Email addresses: > > > Post message: Realization > > > Un: Realization- > > > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > > > > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > > > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > > > http://www.realization.org > > > ................................................ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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