Judi's Ghost?/ Karta

[Guest guest]

" Rob Sacks " wrote:

> Dear Karta,

>

> Thanks for quoting the thread but I still don't

> understand what you are saying about Papaji and

> Judi's remark. There's nothing in the thread you

> quoted about Papaji. I'm trying to understand you,

> but I'm having trouble.

>

> By the way, it's interesting to recall that Papaji

> himself believed that he never suceeded in making

> his students Self-realized. He thought that he gave

> them a temporary glimpse. Sometimes he called

> this condition " enlightenment " to distinguish it from

> something else that he called " sahaja stithi. " Sahaja

> stithi, in Papaji's terminology, is the real thing, full

> Self-Realization. Most of this is described in

> Volume 3 of " Nothing Ever Happened " in the chapter

> " Guru and Disciple. "

>

> Papaji's ideas about vigilance have to be understood

> in this context. He said:

>

> " I can give this direct experience to anyone for a short

> time, but it is not within my power to make the

> experience stay. One who has been granted this

> experience by the Guru has to guard it himself till the

> end of his life. " (Same book, page 389.)

>

> But he then goes on to say that you have to guard it

> by avoiding any effort to hold on to it. So his

> " vigilance " is a complete lack of effort. He gives an

> unusual meaning to the word.

 

Hi Rob, yes me too:

 

I think we are talking about, that

AFTER *waking up* stay vigilant,

or stay conscious be watchful,

attentive etc so here is the thread

in a nut shell:

 

Papaji: " First Enlightenment, then

endless vigilance. "

 

which makes perfect sense for me.

Judi answered reading the same quote:

" how stooooopid is that "

 

so I asked that, ain't the word

enlightenment including *waking up*

and gaining the right understanding

etc:

 

Karta: " please elaborate; what is

difference between your " awake " -ness

or the word  " enlightened " used in

this sentence other than linguist:

" First Enlightenment, then endless vigilance. "

 

Judi: *******do you go back into your

dream and try to save yourself or

the other dream characters? "

 

Karta: == SAVE YOURSELF [must be a

catholic thing]

 

understanding my way of vigilance

void of linguistics is: substitute

" vigilance " with the notion what

Nisargadatta calls " awareness kept

aware on AWARENESS "

 

IN THIS CASE ONE IS *AWAKE*

never went to sleep nor 'dreaming' no

need to come back.

 

Linguistics is one thing, but I find

it ignorant to make statements about

what one has NO knowledge of, this

case [and coutless other times] Judi's

remark showed NO understanding about

how to keep the *light* = the right understanding after Enlightenment

WHICH IS TO STAY AWARE and by all

means shut up if you don't KNOW what

the thread is about and don't jump

in with bombastic *** remarks like

" how stoooopid " .. etc

 

>

> Papaji didn't believe that any of his students had

> become Self-realized. See:

>

> http://davidgodman.org/interviews/rs3.shtml

 

 

thank you for the link

 

awareness-love, Karta

 

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Rob

>