Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Why fear all contraversies?

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Hi All,

 

, <panchamukhi@v...> wrote:

> We have had enough controversies over several issues which in no

> way contribute to our understanding of Shri Madhwacharya's

> philosophies.

It becomes a contraversy only if one or both the parties hold on to

their point of view irrespective of whether or not it's based in

Shastras. Hiding Shastric knowledge for fear of 'contraversy' is not

always a benificial in the long run. Parties involved may need to sit

and have Shastric-vada and prove their(disprove other's) points,

rather than trying to evole 'consensus'.

This forum may very well ban such discussions as most of us(not me

atleast) do not have the panditya/yogyata to make a point.

 

The way Sri Madhva, who is infinitely alpa compared to Sri Hari,

could prove that Sri Hari is sarvottma - a person who is much alpa

compared to Sri Vadirajaru may be able to (dis)prove Rujutva of Sri

vadirajaru, pureley on the basis sat-Shastra.

 

For those who question 'What is the use of knowing whether or not Sri

Vadirajaru is Ruju or not?', I've a counter question 'What is the use

of knowing whether or not Sri Hari is sarvottama?'.

 

Like some acharya noted in Sri Sudha magazine, wrong-knowledge is

worse than no-knowledge. Wrong knowledge in this particualr instance

will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to andhanTamas

instead of Vaikuntha.

 

Personally, I've accepted Sri Sri 1008 Satyatmateertha Swamiji as my

swaroopa uddharaka guru and it's only through him that I can get

sadgati, and whatever is his sat-shastric interpretation is for me

too.

 

Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum,

 

Anand

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear friends,

The points made by Sri Anand Manvi are unexceptionable and are usually

offered as explanation for any position taken by any one, who " claims "

to have determined the truth. Comparing determination of

Harisarvotthamathva by Acharya Madhva based on Sacchasthras with the

apparent determination by Utharadi Matha scholars that Saint Vadiraja is

not a RJU is frivolous and without any valid basis. Sri Anand Manvi how

ever has frankly accepted that he has no other determinant by himself -

but will accept the verdict of Sri 108 present pontiff of Utharadi

Matha. Again I have no quarrel with his personal decision. But, if some

one else, chooses to believe what he thinks is a statement by that great

Aparoksha Jnani - Sri Vijayadasaru, or the firm belief handed down over

generations of Sode Matha followers, along with a very large mass of

Madhvas in general - pls do not threaten them with Andhanthamas etc in

the next world and direct physical violence in this. The latter

particularly does not behove of a great institution of learning, piety

and devotion that Utharadi matha has always been known to be.

I would have appreciated Mr. Anand Manvi's posting much more if he

joined us all in condemning this ugly development which has caused scars

in the psyche of Madhvas and disturbed their emotional unity. All

rational Madhvas must condemn this atitude of intolerance and stupid

mental complex of " only I am qualified to know the truth " .

NAPSRao

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Anand Manvi [m_anand_rao]Friday, May 30, 2003 6:03 AM Subject: Why fear all contraversies?

Hi All, , <panchamukhi@v...> wrote:> We have had enough controversies over several issues which in no> way contribute to our understanding of Shri Madhwacharya's> philosophies.It becomes a contraversy only if one or both the parties hold on to their point of view irrespective of whether or not it's based in Shastras. Hiding Shastric knowledge for fear of 'contraversy' is not always a benificial in the long run. Parties involved may need to sitand have Shastric-vada and prove their(disprove other's) points, rather than trying to evole 'consensus'.This forum may very well ban such discussions as most of us(not me atleast) do not have the panditya/yogyata to make a point.The way Sri Madhva, who is infinitely alpa compared to Sri Hari, could prove that Sri Hari is sarvottma - a person who is much alpa compared to Sri Vadirajaru may be able to (dis)prove Rujutva of Sri vadirajaru, pureley on the basis sat-Shastra.For those who question 'What is the use of knowing whether or not Sri Vadirajaru is Ruju or not?', I've a counter question 'What is the use of knowing whether or not Sri Hari is sarvottama?'.

 

----------------------Please ask this question to Sri Sathyathma tIrtha Swamiji and Sri Mahuli Acharya.Like some acharya noted in Sri Sudha magazine, wrong-knowledge is worse than no-knowledge. Wrong knowledge in this particualr instance will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to andhanTamas instead of Vaikuntha.

Personally, I've accepted Sri Sri 1008 Satyatmateertha Swamiji as my swaroopa uddharaka guru and it's only through him that I can get sadgati, and whatever is his sat-shastric interpretation is for me too.

 

-------------------------------To accept any one as Svarupa Uddarakara Guru, foremost qualification that Guru should possess is that he should know his Svarupa first and then jivas below him.Please ask Sri Sathyathma tIrtha whether he knows his Svarupa and yours.

 

Please visit Uttaradhi Matha Website:

 

It claims specifically Sri Sathyathma tIrtha is "Vayu Devara Amsha".Taken from the Website:

 

"It is an accepted fact that no ordinary soul has occupied the Uttaradi Matha Peetha. Only those with "Vayu Devara Amsha" adorn this Peetha. Many gurus who had appeared ordinary in purvashrama have astounded everybody by the spiritual heights they reached after gracing the Uttaradi Matha Peetha"

 

Who has accepted this ???Where is the pramana for Such fanatic Claims????Without pramana people have to accept Sri Sathyathma tIrtha as Vayu Devara Amsha and With Pramana from Great AparOxa Haridasas Like Vijayadasaru, people should not accept Sri Vadirajara Rujutva.Great Preachings!!!.This is worser than Aham Brahmasi Claim. At least in case of Aham Brahmasi, there is a misinterpretaion and that can be very well repaired. But this Aham Vayu Claim cannnot be .

I repeat the words in Shrisudha:

Wrong knowledge in this particualr instance will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to andhanTamas instead of Vaikuntha.

With this in background (that I am Vayudevara Amsha),, looks like Sri Sathaythma tIrtha has declared himself as the authority to decide Svarupa of Vadiraja . I think some fantatic folks may buy such non sense.For any sensible person, Sri Vijayadasara Vakyas are great Pramana

 

Accepting Vakhyartha by mortal pundits and Swamijis on Svarupas of Great Saints like Vadriraja will lead directly to Andatamassu not Sadgati.

 

Please visit Uttaradhi matha website. In the flash representation after Srimadhacarya ,they are showing Sri Sathyadyana tIrtha. I am very much astonished to note the absence of Sri TikAcharya.This speaks very clearly attitude.AprOxa jnanis like Sri Tikacharya have no place in Uttaradhi Matha Parampare.One day Sri Madhacarya will also be removed amidst of personal glorification of Sri Sathyathma tIrtha.

 

 

Namaskara

Madhusudan Bheemasenarao.

Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum,Anand

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Namaskaras to aeveryone and Mr. Anand Manvi,

 

I have nothing against Mr. Anand Manvi's personal belief of accepting

everything what shri Satyatmateertha swamiji believes. He has been

considered as a great scholar form one and all.

THe point i am trying to make here is not about anyone persons belief but

the attitude of we Madhwas as a group. We have always been trying to fight

amongst ourselves on issues such as which is the moola matha , where is shri

moola rama devaru, whether Shri Vadiraja swamiji is Bhavi sameeraru or not,

and so on and so forth.

According to me, these are not going to help us upgrade our souls but only

satisfy our human nature of bickering and one upmanship. Please correct me

if I am wrong.

I guess if we use the same argument strengths to propogate our philosophy

worldwide, Shri Satyatmateertha swamiji and in turn Shri Madhwacharyaru and

finally Shri Hari will be the happiest atmas around. If we firmly believe in

Dwaita siddhanta, then these wordly issues of who is who and what is what

should be ignored and pursuit of knowledge should be given more stress.

Whether Shri Vadirajaru is a ruju guna or not may not be the end objective

of all us Madhwas but supremacy of Shri Hari is.

All the saint-philosophers in this philosophy have been trying to only prove

the greatness of Shri Hari and the difference between him and us.

Since there is a lineage of following certain taratamya based on of course

the earlier works of great saints, it is not going to lead us anywhere if we

start questioning everything.

That is all I have to say and would like to end this argument and continue

to read more meaningful postings on thsi wonderful medium.

 

Once again pardon me if i have wrongly hurt someones feelings. My intention

has not been that at all.

 

Regards to all.

Pavan Panchamukhi

 

 

 

Anand Manvi [m_anand_rao]

Friday, May 30, 2003 3:33 PM

 

Why fear all contraversies?

 

 

Hi All,

 

, <panchamukhi@v...> wrote:

> We have had enough controversies over several issues which in no

> way contribute to our understanding of Shri Madhwacharya's

> philosophies.

It becomes a contraversy only if one or both the parties hold on to

their point of view irrespective of whether or not it's based in

Shastras. Hiding Shastric knowledge for fear of 'contraversy' is not

always a benificial in the long run. Parties involved may need to sit

and have Shastric-vada and prove their(disprove other's) points,

rather than trying to evole 'consensus'.

This forum may very well ban such discussions as most of us(not me

atleast) do not have the panditya/yogyata to make a point.

 

The way Sri Madhva, who is infinitely alpa compared to Sri Hari,

could prove that Sri Hari is sarvottma - a person who is much alpa

compared to Sri Vadirajaru may be able to (dis)prove Rujutva of Sri

vadirajaru, pureley on the basis sat-Shastra.

 

For those who question 'What is the use of knowing whether or not Sri

Vadirajaru is Ruju or not?', I've a counter question 'What is the use

of knowing whether or not Sri Hari is sarvottama?'.

 

Like some acharya noted in Sri Sudha magazine, wrong-knowledge is

worse than no-knowledge. Wrong knowledge in this particualr instance

will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to andhanTamas

instead of Vaikuntha.

 

Personally, I've accepted Sri Sri 1008 Satyatmateertha Swamiji as my

swaroopa uddharaka guru and it's only through him that I can get

sadgati, and whatever is his sat-shastric interpretation is for me

too.

 

Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum,

 

Anand

 

 

 

nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h|

taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa|

tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH |

karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA ||

 

" I am not the doer, shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His

worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise.

That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His

recurring grace "

If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in

this way, it pleases Vishnu.

--- Quoted by Sri madhvAchArya in GitA tAtparya

--

To send an empty E-mail (without subject and body info.) to

-

--

Visit VMS at http://www.madhva.org

View the latest events in the US by selecting the 'Events' link

--

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Madhusudan Bheemasenarao,

 

I have produced u some pramanas (Sri Vadirajara

words) without discussing it u shouldn't quote like

this.

 

1. Vijayadasaru also has quoted like this.

 

Vyasamuniya BhavaGarbha Srimadacharyaru ballaraiyya

vyasashishyara Bhavagarbha jayamuniraya ballaraiyya

lesu jayaaryara Bhavagarbha munivyasaraya ballaraiyya

Vyasarayara Bhavagarbha VijayeendraVadirajaru

ballaraiyya.

 

in this padya; if Vadirajaru comes in rujugana then

how can sri Vijayadasaru uses his word like " Lesu "

which means in kannada as " alpa " . this vijayadasara

word also proves that Sri Vadirajaru is not

BhaviSameera (Ruju).

 

like this so many Virodha pramanas r there from which

we can't prove Vadirajaru as Ruju.

 

J Raghavendracharya

 

 

 

 

 

--- Madhusudan Bheemasenarao <madhusudanb

wrote: >

> Anand Manvi [m_anand_rao]

> Friday, May 30, 2003 6:03 AM

>

> Why fear all

> contraversies?

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> ,

> <panchamukhi@v...> wrote:

> > We have had enough controversies over several

> issues which in no

> > way contribute to our understanding of Shri

> Madhwacharya's

> > philosophies.

> It becomes a contraversy only if one or both the

> parties hold on to

> their point of view irrespective of whether or not

> it's based in

> Shastras. Hiding Shastric knowledge for fear of

> 'contraversy' is not

> always a benificial in the long run. Parties

> involved may need to sit

> and have Shastric-vada and prove their(disprove

> other's) points,

> rather than trying to evole 'consensus'.

> This forum may very well ban such discussions as

> most of us(not me

> atleast) do not have the panditya/yogyata to make a

> point.

>

> The way Sri Madhva, who is infinitely alpa compared

> to Sri Hari,

> could prove that Sri Hari is sarvottma - a person

> who is much alpa

> compared to Sri Vadirajaru may be able to (dis)prove

> Rujutva of Sri

> vadirajaru, pureley on the basis sat-Shastra.

>

> For those who question 'What is the use of knowing

> whether or not Sri

> Vadirajaru is Ruju or not?', I've a counter question

> 'What is the use

> of knowing whether or not Sri Hari is sarvottama?'.

>

> **----------------------Please ask this question to

> Sri Sathyathma tIrtha Swamiji and Sri Mahuli

> Acharya.

>

> Like some acharya noted in Sri Sudha magazine,

> wrong-knowledge is

> worse than no-knowledge. Wrong knowledge in this

> particualr instance

> will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to

> andhanTamas

> instead of Vaikuntha.

>

> Personally, I've accepted Sri Sri 1008

> Satyatmateertha Swamiji as my

> swaroopa uddharaka guru and it's only through him

> that I can get

> sadgati, and whatever is his sat-shastric

> interpretation is for me

> too.

>

> **-------------------------------To accept any one

as

> Svarupa Uddarakara Guru, foremost qualification that

> Guru should possess is that he should know his

> Svarupa first and then jivas below him.Please ask

> Sri Sathyathma tIrtha whether he knows his Svarupa

> and yours.

>

> Please visit Uttaradhi Matha Website:

>

> **It claims specifically Sri Sathyathma tIrtha is

> " Vayu Devara Amsha " .Taken from the Website:

>

> ** " It is an accepted fact that no ordinary soul has

> occupied the Uttaradi Matha Peetha. Only those with

> " Vayu Devara Amsha " adorn this Peetha. Many gurus

> who had appeared ordinary in purvashrama have

> astounded everybody by the spiritual heights they

> reached after gracing the Uttaradi Matha Peetha "

>

> **Who has accepted this ???Where is the pramana for

> Such fanatic Claims????Without pramana people have

> to accept Sri Sathyathma tIrtha as Vayu Devara Amsha

> and With Pramana from Great AparOxa Haridasas Like

> Vijayadasaru, people should not accept Sri

> Vadirajara Rujutva.Great Preachings!!!.This is

> worser than Aham Brahmasi Claim. At least in case of

> Aham Brahmasi, there is a misinterpretaion and that

> can be very well repaired. But this Aham Vayu Claim

> cannnot be .

> I repeat the words in Shrisudha:

> Wrong knowledge in this particualr instance

> will affect the Taratamya and hence may lead us to

> andhanTamas

> instead of Vaikuntha.

>

> **With this in background (that I am Vayudevara

> Amsha),, looks like Sri Sathaythma tIrtha has

> declared himself as the authority to decide Svarupa

> of Vadiraja . I think some fantatic folks may buy

> such non sense.For any sensible person, Sri

> Vijayadasara Vakyas are great Pramana

>

> **Accepting Vakhyartha by mortal pundits and

Swamijis

> on Svarupas of Great Saints like Vadriraja will

> lead directly to Andatamassu not Sadgati.

>

> **Please visit Uttaradhi matha website. In the flash

> representation after Srimadhacarya ,they are showing

> Sri Sathyadyana tIrtha. I am very much astonished to

> note the absence of Sri TikAcharya.This speaks very

> clearly attitude.AprOxa jnanis like Sri Tikacharya

> have no place in Uttaradhi Matha Parampare.One day

> Sri Madhacarya will also be removed amidst of

> personal glorification of Sri Sathyathma tIrtha.

>

>

> Namaskara

> Madhusudan Bheemasenarao.

> Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum,

>

> Anand

>

>

>

 

 

Plus - For a better Internet experience

http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

-

" Raghavendra Jayamangal " <rjayam

" Madhusudan Bheemasenarao " <madhusudanb

Saturday, May 31, 2003 8:01 AM

RE: Why fear all contraversies?

 

 

>

> Madhusudan Bheemasenarao,

>

> I have produced u some pramanas (Sri Vadirajara

> words) without discussing it u shouldn't quote like

> this.

 

Where did you Produce Sri Vadiraja's words?????

 

>

> 1. Vijayadasaru also has quoted like this.

>

> Vyasamuniya BhavaGarbha Srimadacharyaru ballaraiyya

> vyasashishyara Bhavagarbha jayamuniraya ballaraiyya

> lesu jayaaryara Bhavagarbha munivyasaraya ballaraiyya

> Vyasarayara Bhavagarbha VijayeendraVadirajaru

> ballaraiyya.

>

 

I could not locate the source for this.and I am not sure about the

authenticity of this.

 

> in this padya; if Vadirajaru comes in rujugana then

> how can sri Vijayadasaru uses his word like " Lesu "

> which means in kannada as " alpa " . this vijayadasara

> word also proves that Sri Vadirajaru is not

> BhaviSameera (Ruju).

 

In any case,. LESU Means BETTER not ALPA.

I am not sure how familiar you are with Kannada.

Looks like you have mistaken this with English word " LESS " .

For example , Please take look at:

 

----------aj~JAnigaLa kUDE adhika snEhakkiMtha suj~JAnigaLa kUDE jagaLavE

lESU.(by Sri Vijayadasaru)

 

If real meaning of LESU is applied to pada quoted by you,

Sri Vyasaraja will go above Sri JayathIrtha??? and this will be

a big assault on Sri Vijayadasaru and Sri JayathIrtharu.

 

 

> like this so many Virodha pramanas r there from which

> we can't prove Vadirajaru as Ruju.

 

Sri Vyasarajaru Says:

 

Antarangadali hariya kanadava huttu kurudanO

 

In this condition What are V mortals going to Prove or Disprove???.So

aparoxa jnanis words are final.

Srimadhacarya has taught us how to do Samanvaya in case of Conflict of

meanings.Same rule should be applied.

 

There is a song written by GuruShrisha Vitttaladasaru(Composer of bAro

Gururaghavendra, bArayya bA bA ), on Madhva Yati Parampara, which

you can find in lots of Bhajana Books.

 

Guru Madhva rayarige NamO NamO

Guru Madhva SaMtatige NamO NamO

 

ShriPAdarajarige Guru VyAasamUnigaLige

Guru vAdirAjarige NamO NamO.............................

 

See the absence of Sri JayatIrtha's and Sri Raguttama tIrtha's name in this

Song???

Good Subject for another Contraversy.

Isn't it ??

 

I am very very alpa and I don't even have " Yogyatha " to utter Sri

Vadiraja's name.I don't have even abilitites to understand his gramthas

like Yukti Mallika, Gurvartha dIpIka and by Participating in any discussion

on Rujutva of Sri Vadiraja Yati, I don't want to be a Personal Guest of Lord

Yama!

 

hanumEsha shiri vijayavittalana pAda

vanAjigaLannu naMbikoMDippa vAdirAja

muniya sAmAnyareMdu eNisida nararige

GanavAda shiksheyIvanu | inasUnu kOpadiMda

manadalli ittukOmDu mahimeya pAdi komdAdi

mana shuddarAgi mAdhavananaMGri............................Sri Vijaya

Dasaru.

 

Namaskara

Madhusudan Bheemasenarao

 

 

>

> J Raghavendracharya

>

 

-

" anil deshpande " <anilrd

" Raghavendra Jayamangal " <rjayam; " Madhusudan Bheemasenarao "

<madhusudanb

Saturday, May 31, 2003 11:13 PM

RE: Why fear all contraversies?

 

 

> Raghavendra,

> Though I am reading all these mails, I have not much

> concentrated on discussions on Sri Vadirajaru. Because

> it is beyond my ability.

>

> But there is different meaning for Kannada word " Lesu "

> that is Valleyadu (that means Good), Please cross

> check.

> Thanks

> Anil

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...