Yardstick to gauge Free from Egoism and Sense of Mine

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

'I am not this body.'

 

Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this but

understand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak has

not learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be the

difference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.

 

Thanks,

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

--------------------

: Shree Hari:

Ram Ram

 

Question: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a " Sense of Mine " (mamtaa)?

 

From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:

(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,

persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, it

means that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water and

clothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belong

to me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there is

clear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is no

question of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism " I-ness " persists by accepting

affinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.

 

The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so it

should be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needs

nothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritual

aspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.

 

From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has the

inherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part of

nature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with

'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.'

 

'I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect of

individuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limited

conception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal

'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomes

completely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.

 

From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'

or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body been

mine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessed

it) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,

mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,

a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.

 

From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235

by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

 

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net

For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address

etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, may

modify the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

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[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

'I am not this body.'

Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this butunderstand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak hasnot learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be thedifference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.

Thanks,Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia--------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear sadhakas,Hare krishnaLord krishna says in bhagavad-gita"Manapamanayos tulyah,Tulyo mitraripakshayoh,Sarvarambha parityagi,Gunatitah sa ucyate" (gita 14/25)Which means"The person who does equally well in honor and dishonor,who treats friend and foe alike, andWho has given up all materialActivities, such person hasTranscended the modes of nature"Lack of ego and lack of "mine",Feeling have to be seen inAction and in the conduct of ourDaily life. Hare krishnaPrasad iragavarapu,m.d

-----------------------------

Hari Om

Beautiful Question ! Dear Varun, you always love to go deeper. You are very focused. At this age if you are so, believe me the goal will not be long away. Yardsticks are many, Dear Varun. But today, let me give you the toughest. Swamiji once said that if some one calls your name and you get vigilant, attentive, that too is a yardstick to determine if you have or you have not firmly believed that "I am not body" ! Sorry ! But it is true. Very very difficult, isn't it? Remember even in His last Will ( Ek Sant ki Vaseeyat) , he stated how a human loves "name" given to him by the world and wants that his name be remembered even after his death ? That is our Taat Shree ! But when you consider how easily old surname is forgotten and new one is adopted by a married girl , perhaps, that will enthuse you. This liking or glorification of "individual name" represents a very deep attachment to inert and dense ego. Hence, when anyone becomes Sadhu, normally the name is changed. It is not "symbolical" alone, It has a meaning that you are not name. We shall discuss, however, the other yardsticks too. PEACE ! "Nirmamo Niranahankaarscha sah shantimadhigachhati' ( BG 2:71) ! What about Peace ?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

Dear Sadaks,Just read Srimath Bagavath where in Veda Vyas running behind his son. Father (Vyas) and Sri Sukji (Son) while crossing nude bathing women, women never covered themselves while Sukji crossed, but covered when Ved Vyas crossed. The women in argument with Vyasji said you know the difference between a tree and woman, but your son does not know the difference. This portion one should read in detail to know the yardstick. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

-----------

Dear Sadhak

The question is between a person who learns and the person who puts into practice.The person who learns write lenthy answers in our talks and a person put its teachings in actual life reaps the benefits of its teachings

Reciting verses of Gita is the main aspect of our life.This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi was reciting Sanskrita verses every day consistently in his life.Follow him.

 

Truly yours

 

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

 

PRIOR POSTING

: Shree Hari:Ram Ram

Question: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a "Sense of Mine" (mamtaa)?

From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, itmeans that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water andclothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belongto me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there isclear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is noquestion of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism "I-ness" persists by acceptingaffinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.

The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so itshould be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needsnothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritualaspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.

From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has theinherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part ofnature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.'

'I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect ofindividuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limitedconception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomescompletely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.

From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body beenmine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessedit) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, maymodify the posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram'I am not this body.'Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this butunderstand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak hasnot learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be thedifference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.Thanks,Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia--------------------NEW POSTINGI think answer of VyasNB quoting Ek sant ki vasiyat is ultimate.

Raja Gurdasani----------------------It is very very simple.........Yardstick is the level of happiness

Happiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper....

It will be visible to others.....in words and action....Sushil Jain----------------------Namaste Dear Sadhakas!I am having a monologue within "I". Please bear with me(?).Well I know "I am not this body". So what, I also know Delhi is north of Mumbai.So it is just information, uh, nothing changes!Let

me see if there is any proof: I investigate: Body is born, was not

there before, is gross, gets sick, changes, ages, feels good or bad,

dies etc etc.But "I" is the same in all those states of body.

Before the birth or after the death, I am not sure, because I, as

body-mind, have no way of knowing it, just as in sleep too! Even a bulb doesn't know what happens to electricity before it lighted and after it blows! So I remain open for all possibilities of being or not!But "I" cannot be seen, touched, heard, smelt, tasted, or thought about as "this' or "that" because I know all

those are perceived objects, none of them is "I", I know for sure!So even they cannot tell me who "I" am. So

"I am body" must not be true, after all! I think I have a feeling that

"I", even if it is not seen, heard, smelt, touched, tasted or thought

about, there is experiencing-knowing-conciousness of on the part of

whatever may be that "I" that I am, but it IS, for sure. Hey, even if it is nothing, it still is as no-thing, right? This

is now telling me: "I" is the highest certainty/reality of all

experiences! If I can say that then I have to know it by experience,

right? Now, I can say(intuitively) that "I" is itself this

knowing-ness, experiencing! It is "who knows" even ignorance! Oh my

god, I thought I am this body-mind organism all this time, and now it

is proving 'me" wrong when I inquire! My notions, beliefs cannot stand

this inquiry! Can these notions, beliefs be "I-me" who don't want to

get caught by such inquiry? Can this

"I-me" is "I" that I thought I was?So I say "I just am" whatever that is, doesn't matter, let us say Consciousness is "I".Question: since we all have "I" when we refer to ourselves, could it be many different "I"'s? Since

I cannot know "I", nor do they, so let me remain open for all

possibilities again, as to its individuality or universality. Can I do

that? Can I act as if I am Consciousness?Gurus like Swamiji tell us that God will prove to you its Universality, don't worry.So

now I see that "I am-consciousness-awareness" is not a particular body,

but all bodies, anything and nothing is "I am", has to be! So all

bodies are within "I-consciousness", Itself not bound by bodies! Oh, so who am I hating, myself? who am I loving, myself? who am I killing, myself?Now

this is getting exciting and there is a feeling of wellness all around.

"I am happy". ah, but that is not really true, rather, "I see happy

state being witnessed" is

correct, accepted.This is acceptance with understanding and

finally Abidance as SELF when "witness" and "witnessed" vanish into

Witnessing Presence within and without! Is this what Vasudevah Sarvam?Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--------------------------Pranaam.

 

Just a before coming to the pc and reading this message I was

weeping because I miss my Bhaiya who has passed away. As I was weeping

this is what he said to me in my mind--dear Sister why are you crying.

I am right here besides you. I have just given up my physical body--the

flesh and blood one. You know that the soul never perish, so I am still

here with you. please don't weep.

 

We all learn about the imperishable Atma, however when someone you

love passes away, you forget lessons in moments of deep grief. I've

learnt about Atma, even accepted that it never dies when I lost my Pita

Ji. With my youngest Brother's passing, grief has made me forget what I

have known/ learnt before.In life we read and learn many things,

theory, it is the practise that is more important. You can sympathise

with a victim of abuse, only when you yourself become a victim then you

can begin to understand the suffering that victims endure--you can then

empathise.

 

Nanda Kother

 

 

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)When one realizes that everything in this world is an illusion andthat includes even one's body, only then will one realize the truth ofthis saying. For that one has to become an enlightened person like theone mentioned in the Geeta for whom happiness and unhappiness are just2 sides of the same coin.Hari Shanker Deo --------------------Dear Sadhaks

I understand that I am not this body. "I" relate to this world

through this body. So it is "my" duty to keep this body healthy. From

the discussions on sacred Gita I get a sense that one can go beyond

this state. Am "I" right?

Pranams

Veena Hasan----------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhakas,Hare krishnaLord krishna says in bhagavad-gita"Manapamanayos tulyah,Tulyo mitraripakshayoh,Sarvarambha parityagi,Gunatitah sa ucyate" (gita 14/25)Which means"The person who does equally well in honor and dishonor,who treats friend and foe alike, andWho has given up all materialActivities, such person hasTranscended the modes of nature"Lack of ego and lack of "mine",Feeling have to be seen inAction and in the conduct of ourDaily life.Hare krishnaPrasad iragavarapu,m.d-----------------------------Hari OmBeautiful Question ! Dear Varun, you always love to go deeper. You are very focused. At this age if you are so, believe me the goal will not be long away. Yardsticks are many, Dear Varun. But today, let me give you the toughest. Swamiji once said that if some one calls your name and you get vigilant, attentive, that too is a yardstick to determine if you have or you have not firmly believed that "I am not body" ! Sorry ! But it is true. Very very difficult, isn't it? Remember even in His last Will ( Ek Sant ki Vaseeyat) , he stated how a human loves "name" given to him by the world and wants that his name be remembered even after his death ? That is our Taat Shree ! But when you consider how easily old surname is forgotten and new one is adopted by a married girl , perhaps, that will enthuse you. This liking or glorification of "individual name" represents a very deep attachment to inert and dense ego. Hence, when anyone becomes Sadhu, normally the name is changed. It is not "symbolical" alone, It has a meaning that you are not name. We shall discuss, however, the other yardsticks too. PEACE ! "Nirmamo Niranahankaarscha sah shantimadhigachhati' ( BG 2:71) ! What about Peace ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N BDear Sadaks,Just read Srimath Bagavath where in Veda Vyas running behind his son. Father (Vyas) and Sri Sukji (Son) while crossing nude bathing women, women never covered themselves while Sukji crossed, but covered when Ved Vyas crossed. The women in argument with Vyasji said you know the difference between a tree and woman, but your son does not know the difference. This portion one should read in detail to know the yardstick.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------Dear SadhakThe question is between a person who learns and the person who puts into practice.The person who learns write lenthy answers in our talks and a person put its teachings in actual life reaps the benefits of its teachingsReciting verses of Gita is the main aspect of our life.This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi was reciting Sanskrita verses every day consistently in his life.Follow him. Truly yours Shankerprasad S BhattPRIOR POSTING: Shree Hari:Ram RamQuestion: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a "Sense of Mine" (mamtaa)?From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, itmeans that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water andclothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belongto me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there isclear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is noquestion of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism "I-ness" persists by acceptingaffinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so itshould be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needsnothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritualaspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has theinherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part ofnature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.''I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect ofindividuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limitedconception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomescompletely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body beenmine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessedit) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, maymodify the posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

'I am not this body.'

Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this butunderstand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak hasnot learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be thedifference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.

Thanks,Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia--------------------

NEW POSTING

Ram RamI am not of this body...so there is no mineness..no ego..therefore there is remembrance of God. To be of this body one forgets God as this life keeps them so busy in domestic work we serve becoming slaves to those who give constant reminders of attachment to them taking away what belongs to God, our service to Him we relinquish? Why? There is no disappointment in special words of Gods Will be done. Attachment is like Nanda Kother said, yes you are so right that your Bhaiya is here with you and for me i had struggle with this as grandmother loving her family that all that I could do when meeting up with arrogance, disobedience, that for me i had to remove attachments sincerely and offer them to God, and in this there is much improvement...because offering to God becomes pure and divine..We are not of this body, we have brought nothing into this world and yet dear Vyas N B one can not even explain how profound your message..where there is our mind fooling us that we may advance this yardstick can draw us back to continual reassessment. and we have to redetermine to serve only God by serving others in our household as these members we commit to God.How can there be ego when nothing is ours? When others die will we go with them?Always there is love for S Bhatts encouragement to look to follow Ghandijee in satsang and studies, it is our dutie and our prasad.Pratap has such beautiful understandings and to Hari Shankar Deo yes..yes..yes..all is Maya, all is Gods Play where one reaches out to attain enlightenment as ultimate goal...catherine andersen

------

 

Shree Hari Nandaji.Ram Ram.Srimad Bhagavatam explains that Vidur felt sad and happy both when Dhritarastra left his body. Similarly, Arjun was very sad on hearing death of Abhimanyu even after hearing and understanding Gita fews days ago.We cannot comprehend being equal to Vidur and Arjun. Accepting our self to be different than body does not mean that we become emotionless. Otherwise, Arjun and Vidur would not have reacted the above way.My parents may die anytime as they are old. I have not gotten chance to serve my parents as I am in US. I think my service to them is to remember Ram. While remembering Ram, I pray to Him to take care of them in this life and next life and pray to Him to give bhakti to our whole family. If I remember Ram properly, then I don't need to feel sad as I know that Ram will always take care of them and their next life will be much more better both spiritually and materially.Ram Ram.Gaurav Mittal

 

--------------------

PRIOR POSTING

I think answer of VyasNB quoting Ek sant ki vasiyat is ultimate.Raja Gurdasani

----------------------

It is very very simple.........Yardstick is the level of happiness Happiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper....It will be visible to others.....in words and action....Sushil Jain

----------------------

 

Namaste Dear Sadhakas!I am having a monologue within "I". Please bear with me(?).Well I know "I am not this body". So what, I also know Delhi is north of Mumbai.So it is just information, uh, nothing changes!Let me see if there is any proof: I investigate: Body is born, was not there before, is gross, gets sick, changes, ages, feels good or bad, dies etc etc.But "I" is the same in all those states of body. Before the birth or after the death, I am not sure, because I, as body-mind, have no way of knowing it, just as in sleep too! Even a bulb doesn't know what happens to electricity before it lighted and after it blows! So I remain open for all possibilities of being or not!But "I" cannot be seen, touched, heard, smelt, tasted, or thought about as "this' or "that" because I know all those are perceived objects, none of them is "I", I know for sure!So even they cannot tell me who "I" am. So "I am body" must not be true, after all! I think I have a feeling that "I", even if it is not seen, heard, smelt, touched, tasted or thought about, there is experiencing-knowing-conciousness of on the part of whatever may be that "I" that I am, but it IS, for sure. Hey, even if it is nothing, it still is as no-thing, right? This is now telling me: "I" is the highest certainty/reality of all experiences! If I can say that then I have to know it by experience, right? Now, I can say(intuitively) that "I" is itself this knowing-ness, experiencing! It is "who knows" even ignorance! Oh my god, I thought I am this body-mind organism all this time, and now it is proving 'me" wrong when I inquire! My notions, beliefs cannot stand this inquiry! Can these notions, beliefs be "I-me" who don't want to get caught by such inquiry? Can this "I-me" is "I" that I thought I was?So I say "I just am" whatever that is, doesn't matter, let us say Consciousness is "I".Question: since we all have "I" when we refer to ourselves, could it be many different "I"'s? Since I cannot know "I", nor do they, so let me remain open for all possibilities again, as to its individuality or universality. Can I do that? Can I act as if I am Consciousness?Gurus like Swamiji tell us that God will prove to you its Universality, don't worry.So now I see that "I am-consciousness-awareness" is not a particular body, but all bodies, anything and nothing is "I am", has to be! So all bodies are within "I-consciousness", Itself not bound by bodies! Oh, so who am I hating, myself? who am I loving, myself? who am I killing, myself?Now this is getting exciting and there is a feeling of wellness all around. "I am happy". ah, but that is not really true, rather, "I see happy state being witnessed" is correct, accepted.This is acceptance with understanding and finally Abidance as SELF when "witness" and "witnessed" vanish into Witnessing Presence within and without! Is this what Vasudevah Sarvam?Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------

Pranaam. Just a before coming to the pc and reading this message I was weeping because I miss my Bhaiya who has passed away. As I was weeping this is what he said to me in my mind--dear Sister why are you crying. I am right here besides you. I have just given up my physical body--the flesh and blood one. You know that the soul never perish, so I am still here with you. please don't weep. We all learn about the imperishable Atma, however when someone you love passes away, you forget lessons in moments of deep grief. I've learnt about Atma, even accepted that it never dies when I lost my Pita Ji. With my youngest Brother's passing, grief has made me forget what I have known/ learnt before.In life we read and learn many things, theory, it is the practise that is more important. You can sympathise with a victim of abuse, only when you yourself become a victim then you can begin to understand the suffering that victims endure--you can then empathise. Nanda Kother

 

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

 

When one realizes that everything in this world is an illusion andthat includes even one's body, only then will one realize the truth ofthis saying. For that one has to become an enlightened person like theone mentioned in the Geeta for whom happiness and unhappiness are just2 sides of the same coin.Hari Shanker Deo --------------------

Dear SadhaksI understand that I am not this body. "I" relate to this world through this body. So it is "my" duty to keep this body healthy. From the discussions on sacred Gita I get a sense that one can go beyond this state. Am "I" right?PranamsVeena Hasan----------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhakas,Hare krishna

Lord krishna says in bhagavad-gita"Manapamanayos tulyah,Tulyo mitraripakshayoh,Sarvarambha parityagi,Gunatitah sa ucyate" (gita 14/25)Which means"The person who does equally well in honor and dishonor,who treats friend and foe alike, andWho has given up all materialActivities, such person hasTranscended the modes of nature"

Lack of ego and lack of "mine",Feeling have to be seen inAction and in the conduct of ourDaily life.Hare krishnaPrasad iragavarapu,m.d

-----------------------------

Hari Om

Beautiful Question ! Dear Varun, you always love to go deeper. You are very focused. At this age if you are so, believe me the goal will not be long away. Yardsticks are many, Dear Varun. But today, let me give you the toughest. Swamiji once said that if some one calls your name and you get vigilant, attentive, that too is a yardstick to determine if you have or you have not firmly believed that "I am not body" ! Sorry ! But it is true. Very very difficult, isn't it? Remember even in His last Will ( Ek Sant ki Vaseeyat) , he stated how a human loves "name" given to him by the world and wants that his name be remembered even after his death ? That is our Taat Shree ! But when you consider how easily old surname is forgotten and new one is adopted by a married girl , perhaps, that will enthuse you. This liking or glorification of "individual name" represents a very deep attachment to inert and dense ego. Hence, when anyone becomes Sadhu, normally the name is changed. It is not "symbolical" alone, It has a meaning that you are not name. We shall discuss, however, the other yardsticks too. PEACE ! "Nirmamo Niranahankaarscha sah shantimadhigachhati' ( BG 2:71) ! What about Peace ?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

 

Dear Sadaks,Just read Srimath Bagavath where in Veda Vyas running behind his son. Father (Vyas) and Sri Sukji (Son) while crossing nude bathing women, women never covered themselves while Sukji crossed, but covered when Ved Vyas crossed. The women in argument with Vyasji said you know the difference between a tree and woman, but your son does not know the difference. This portion one should read in detail to know the yardstick.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

-----------Dear SadhakThe question is between a person who learns and the person who puts into practice.The person who learns write lenthy answers in our talks and a person put its teachings in actual life reaps the benefits of its teachingsReciting verses of Gita is the main aspect of our life.This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi was reciting Sanskrita verses every day consistently in his life.Follow him. Truly yours Shankerprasad S Bhatt

PRIOR POSTING

: Shree Hari:Ram Ram

Question: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a "Sense of Mine" (mamtaa)?

From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, itmeans that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water andclothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belongto me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there isclear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is noquestion of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism "I-ness" persists by acceptingaffinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.

The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so itshould be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needsnothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritualaspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.

From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has theinherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part ofnature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.'

'I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect ofindividuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limitedconception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomescompletely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.

From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body beenmine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessedit) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, maymodify the posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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[Guest guest]

Ram Ram'I am not this body.'Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this butunderstand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak hasnot learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be thedifference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.Thanks,Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia--------------------NEW POSTING"It is very very simple...... ...Yardstick is the level of happiness. Happiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper.... It will be visible to others.....in words and action.... Sushil Jain "

 

yes,yes,yes.................

 

a very apt and true understanding

,sushiljee................. so also narinder finds joy reflected in

your other expressions too.............. blessed indeed is sushil jee.................

each person has only to get rid of the eclipsing factor from within himself !Nanak says :

 

" Mana apne te bura mitana,pekhe sagal srist sajana "

 

" to

erase the negative from one's own mind, to see God in the whole

Creation( the other in front of you?) is the way...................."

 

It

echoes Krishna's advice flowing out of his words................." I

am the gambling of the fraudulent ; ..........................I am the

I am the goodness of the Good."~ Bh.Gt. Ch 10/36.

 

.......................although

Krishna Himself is all,the Sadhak is to see Krishna in the 'fraudulent

'around,while seeing that the goodness in his own being is Krishna ................. and keep purifying his own being ,till one day, he gets established in the No-Mind,'where right and wrong cease to exist '!.........

 

.................. till " the self gets to be known,and all is known'"

 

Conduct truly is the test. For your own self.And, you have to be the judge of your own thoughts, words,and deeds................. your own conduct .................. and

for whom? ................for your own self !!............who benefits

most , when your conduct is righteous,who ? You ,of course

!.....................the world is only the ' incidental beneficiary'!

 

thank you Sushil jee for sharing your light with us..................

 

AUM

 

narinder bhandari------egoism is the source of ethicsyou should read Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness"envy is the root of evilnot greedBruce Majors----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRam RamI am not of this body...so there is no mineness..no ego..therefore there is remembrance of God. To be of this body one forgets God as this life keeps them so busy in domestic work we serve becoming slaves to those who give constant reminders of attachment to them taking away what belongs to God, our service to Him we relinquish? Why? There is no disappointment in special words of Gods Will be done. Attachment is like Nanda Kother said, yes you are so right that your Bhaiya is here with you and for me i had struggle with this as grandmother loving her family that all that I could do when meeting up with arrogance, disobedience, that for me i had to remove attachments sincerely and offer them to God, and in this there is much improvement...because offering to God becomes pure and divine..We are not of this body, we have brought nothing into this world and yet dear Vyas N B one can not even explain how profound your message..where there is our mind fooling us that we may advance this yardstick can draw us back to continual reassessment. and we have to redetermine to serve only God by serving others in our household as these members we commit to God.How can there be ego when nothing is ours? When others die will we go with them?Always there is love for S Bhatts encouragement to look to follow Ghandijee in satsang and studies, it is our dutie and our prasad.Pratap has such beautiful understandings and to Hari Shankar Deo yes..yes..yes..all is Maya, all is Gods Play where one reaches out to attain enlightenment as ultimate goal...catherine andersen------ Shree Hari Nandaji.Ram Ram.Srimad Bhagavatam explains that Vidur felt sad and happy both when Dhritarastra left his body. Similarly, Arjun was very sad on hearing death of Abhimanyu even after hearing and understanding Gita fews days ago.We cannot comprehend being equal to Vidur and Arjun. Accepting our self to be different than body does not mean that we become emotionless. Otherwise, Arjun and Vidur would not have reacted the above way.My parents may die anytime as they are old. I have not gotten chance to serve my parents as I am in US. I think my service to them is to remember Ram. While remembering Ram, I pray to Him to take care of them in this life and next life and pray to Him to give bhakti to our whole family. If I remember Ram properly, then I don't need to feel sad as I know that Ram will always take care of them and their next life will be much more better both spiritually and materially.Ram Ram.Gaurav Mittal --------------------PRIOR POSTINGI think answer of VyasNB quoting Ek sant ki vasiyat is ultimate.Raja Gurdasani----------------------It is very very simple.........Yardstick is the level of happinessHappiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper....It will be visible to others.....in words and action....Sushil Jain---------------------- Namaste Dear Sadhakas!I am having a monologue within "I". Please bear with me(?).Well I know "I am not this body". So what, I also know Delhi is north of Mumbai.So it is just information, uh, nothing changes!Let me see if there is any proof: I investigate: Body is born, was not there before, is gross, gets sick, changes, ages, feels good or bad, dies etc etc.But "I" is the same in all those states of body. Before the birth or after the death, I am not sure, because I, as body-mind, have no way of knowing it, just as in sleep too!Even a bulb doesn't know what happens to electricity before it lighted and after it blows!So I remain open for all possibilities of being or not!But "I" cannot be seen, touched, heard, smelt, tasted, or thought about as "this' or "that" because I know all those are perceived objects, none of them is "I", I know for sure!So even they cannot tell me who "I" am.So "I am body" must not be true, after all! I think I have a feeling that "I", even if it is not seen, heard, smelt, touched, tasted or thought about, there is experiencing-knowing-conciousness of on the part of whatever may be that "I" that I am, but it IS, for sure.Hey, even if it is nothing, it still is as no-thing, right?This is now telling me: "I" is the highest certainty/reality of all experiences! If I can say that then I have to know it by experience, right? Now, I can say(intuitively) that "I" is itself this knowing-ness, experiencing! It is "who knows" even ignorance! Oh my god, I thought I am this body-mind organism all this time, and now it is proving 'me" wrong when I inquire! My notions, beliefs cannot stand this inquiry! Can these notions, beliefs be "I-me" who don't want to get caught by such inquiry? Can this "I-me" is "I" that I thought I was?So I say "I just am" whatever that is, doesn't matter, let us say Consciousness is "I".Question: since we all have "I" when we refer to ourselves, could it be many different "I"'s?Since I cannot know "I", nor do they, so let me remain open for all possibilities again, as to its individuality or universality. Can I do that? Can I act as if I am Consciousness?Gurus like Swamiji tell us that God will prove to you its Universality, don't worry.So now I see that "I am-consciousness-awareness" is not a particular body, but all bodies, anything and nothing is "I am", has to be! So all bodies are within "I-consciousness", Itself not bound by bodies!Oh, so who am I hating, myself? who am I loving, myself? who am I killing, myself?Now this is getting exciting and there is a feeling of wellness all around. "I am happy". ah, but that is not really true, rather, "I see happy state being witnessed" is correct, accepted.This is acceptance with understanding and finally Abidance as SELF when "witness" and "witnessed" vanish into Witnessing Presence within and without! Is this what Vasudevah Sarvam?Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--------------------------Pranaam. Just a before coming to the pc and reading this message I was weeping because I miss my Bhaiya who has passed away. As I was weeping this is what he said to me in my mind--dear Sister why are you crying. I am right here besides you. I have just given up my physical body--the flesh and blood one. You know that the soul never perish, so I am still here with you. please don't weep. We all learn about the imperishable Atma, however when someone you love passes away, you forget lessons in moments of deep grief. I've learnt about Atma, even accepted that it never dies when I lost my Pita Ji. With my youngest Brother's passing, grief has made me forget what I have known/ learnt before.In life we read and learn many things, theory, it is the practise that is more important. You can sympathise with a victim of abuse, only when you yourself become a victim then you can begin to understand the suffering that victims endure--you can then empathise. Nanda Kother TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)When one realizes that everything in this world is an illusion andthat includes even one's body, only then will one realize the truth ofthis saying. For that one has to become an enlightened person like theone mentioned in the Geeta for whom happiness and unhappiness are just2 sides of the same coin.Hari Shanker Deo --------------------Dear SadhaksI understand that I am not this body. "I" relate to this world through this body. So it is "my" duty to keep this body healthy. From the discussions on sacred Gita I get a sense that one can go beyond this state. Am "I" right?PranamsVeena Hasan----------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhakas,Hare krishnaLord krishna says in bhagavad-gita"Manapamanayos tulyah,Tulyo mitraripakshayoh,Sarvarambha parityagi,Gunatitah sa ucyate" (gita 14/25)Which means"The person who does equally well in honor and dishonor,who treats friend and foe alike, andWho has given up all materialActivities, such person hasTranscended the modes of nature"Lack of ego and lack of "mine",Feeling have to be seen inAction and in the conduct of ourDaily life.Hare krishnaPrasad iragavarapu,m.d-----------------------------Hari OmBeautiful Question ! Dear Varun, you always love to go deeper. You are very focused. At this age if you are so, believe me the goal will not be long away. Yardsticks are many, Dear Varun. But today, let me give you the toughest. Swamiji once said that if some one calls your name and you get vigilant, attentive, that too is a yardstick to determine if you have or you have not firmly believed that "I am not body" ! Sorry ! But it is true. Very very difficult, isn't it? Remember even in His last Will ( Ek Sant ki Vaseeyat) , he stated how a human loves "name" given to him by the world and wants that his name be remembered even after his death ? That is our Taat Shree ! But when you consider how easily old surname is forgotten and new one is adopted by a married girl , perhaps, that will enthuse you. This liking or glorification of "individual name" represents a very deep attachment to inert and dense ego. Hence, when anyone becomes Sadhu, normally the name is changed. It is not "symbolical" alone, It has a meaning that you are not name. We shall discuss, however, the other yardsticks too. PEACE ! "Nirmamo Niranahankaarscha sah shantimadhigachhati' ( BG 2:71) ! What about Peace ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N BDear Sadaks,Just read Srimath Bagavath where in Veda Vyas running behind his son. Father (Vyas) and Sri Sukji (Son) while crossing nude bathing women, women never covered themselves while Sukji crossed, but covered when Ved Vyas crossed. The women in argument with Vyasji said you know the difference between a tree and woman, but your son does not know the difference. This portion one should read in detail to know the yardstick.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------Dear SadhakThe question is between a person who learns and the person who puts into practice.The person who learns write lenthy answers in our talks and a person put its teachings in actual life reaps the benefits of its teachingsReciting verses of Gita is the main aspect of our life.This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi was reciting Sanskrita verses every day consistently in his life.Follow him. Truly yours Shankerprasad S BhattPRIOR POSTING: Shree Hari:Ram RamQuestion: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a "Sense of Mine" (mamtaa)?From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, itmeans that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water andclothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belongto me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there isclear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is noquestion of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism "I-ness" persists by acceptingaffinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so itshould be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needsnothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritualaspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has theinherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part ofnature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.''I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect ofindividuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limitedconception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomescompletely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body beenmine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessedit) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, maymodify the posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram'I am not this body.'Swamiji has emphasized on this point that one should not learn/rote this butunderstand and accept it. What is is the yardstick to judge that a sadhak hasnot learnt it but understood and accepted it. In other words what will be thedifference between one who only learns this and the other who understands this.Thanks,Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia--------------------NEW POSTING.................................... finally

Abidance as SELF when "witness" and "witnessed" vanish into Witnessing

Presence within and without ! .......................... Pratap Bhatt

thank you,Pratap jee ............

Krishna has succeeded in

conveying in Pratap jee's words in this message..............that

,which cannot be conveyed in words ...................

your words lead the Mind into No-Mind ..........silence !

Thank you,

AUM

narinder bhandari

============================================

Shree Hari Ram Ram

In Salvation of Mankind Swamiji has talked about freedom from Egoism He quotes Gita -

"Egoless and free from sense of mine, he is balanced both in pain and pleasure."

 

"Nirmamoha Nirahankara samadukha sukha kshami." (Gita 12:13)

Swamiji's explanation of this is that the sadhak has to give attention to the fact that the real "Self" is already free from egoism and sense of mine. "I" and "Mine-ness" are not real, both of them have been falsely presumed to be our own Self. If these were truly real, then we could never become free from the sense of "I" and feeling of "Mine" and Bhagavan would not have talked about being free from egoism and sense of mine. It is only because our natural state is already free from "I" and "Mine" that Bhagavan has stated to be free from egoism and feeling of mine.

Sadhaks Please pay close attention to these words. All further conversations / discussions related to this topic would end if this is clearly understood. Why discuss something that is not even there in us (Self)? Why do we want to be this dog who chooses to walk under a moving cart filled with many goods, only for shade and protection from the intense heat of the sun. However, after a while this dog assumes that he is carrying the goods that are moving above him. We too though not having anything to do with carrying the burden of "ego" and "mine-ness" have claimed them as our own. We are equally ignorant like that dog, if we do not want to accept Bhagavanji's and Swamiji's clear and precise message. Meera Das Ram Ram

========================================PRIOR POSTING"It is very very simple...... ...Yardstick is the level of happiness. Happiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper.... It will be visible to others.....in words and action....Sushil Jain " yes,yes,yes................. a very apt and true understanding ,sushiljee................. so also narinder finds joy reflected in your other expressions too.............. blessed indeed is sushil jee.................each person has only to get rid of the eclipsing factor from within himself !Nanak says : " Mana apne te bura mitana,pekhe sagal srist sajana to erase the negative from one's own mind, to see God in the whole Creation( the other in front of you?) is the way...................." It echoes Krishna's advice flowing out of his words................." I am the gambling of the fraudulent ; ..........................I am the I am the goodness of the Good."~ Bh.Gt. Ch 10/36. ......................although Krishna Himself is all,the Sadhak is to see Krishna in the 'fraudulent 'around,while seeing that the goodness in his own being is Krishna ................. and keep purifying his own being ,till one day, he gets established in the No-Mind,'where right and wrong cease to exist '!......... ................. till " the self gets to be known,and all is known'" Conduct truly is the test. For your own self.And, you have to be the judge of your own thoughts, words,and deeds................. your own conduct .................. and for whom? ................for your own self !!............who benefits most , when your conduct is righteous,who ? You ,of course !.....................the world is only the ' incidental beneficiary'! thank you Sushil jee for sharing your light with us.................. AUM narinder bhandari------egoism is the source of ethicsyou should read Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness"envy is the root of evilnot greedBruce Majors----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRam RamI am not of this body...so there is no mineness..no ego..therefore there is remembrance of God. To be of this body one forgets God as this life keeps them so busy in domestic work we serve becoming slaves to those who give constant reminders of attachment to them taking away what belongs to God, our service to Him we relinquish? Why? There is no disappointment in special words of Gods Will be done. Attachment is like Nanda Kother said, yes you are so right that your Bhaiya is here with you and for me i had struggle with this as grandmother loving her family that all that I could do when meeting up with arrogance, disobedience, that for me i had to remove attachments sincerely and offer them to God, and in this there is much improvement...because offering to God becomes pure and divine..We are not of this body, we have brought nothing into this world and yet dear Vyas N B one can not even explain how profound your message..where there is our mind fooling us that we may advance this yardstick can draw us back to continual reassessment. and we have to redetermine to serve only God by serving others in our household as these members we commit to God.How can there be ego when nothing is ours? When others die will we go with them?Always there is love for S Bhatts encouragement to look to follow Ghandijee in satsang and studies, it is our dutie and our prasad.Pratap has such beautiful understandings and to Hari Shankar Deo yes..yes..yes..all is Maya, all is Gods Play where one reaches out to attain enlightenment as ultimate goal...catherine andersen------ Shree Hari Nandaji.Ram Ram.Srimad Bhagavatam explains that Vidur felt sad and happy both when Dhritarastra left his body. Similarly, Arjun was very sad on hearing death of Abhimanyu even after hearing and understanding Gita fews days ago.We cannot comprehend being equal to Vidur and Arjun. Accepting our self to be different than body does not mean that we become emotionless. Otherwise, Arjun and Vidur would not have reacted the above way.My parents may die anytime as they are old. I have not gotten chance to serve my parents as I am in US. I think my service to them is to remember Ram. While remembering Ram, I pray to Him to take care of them in this life and next life and pray to Him to give bhakti to our whole family. If I remember Ram properly, then I don't need to feel sad as I know that Ram will always take care of them and their next life will be much more better both spiritually and materially.Ram Ram.Gaurav Mittal --------------------PRIOR POSTINGI think answer of VyasNB quoting Ek sant ki vasiyat is ultimate.Raja Gurdasani----------------------It is very very simple.........Yardstick is the level of happinessHappiness increases with understanding getting deeper.....and deeper....It will be visible to others.....in words and action....Sushil Jain---------------------- Namaste Dear Sadhakas!I am having a monologue within "I". Please bear with me(?).Well I know "I am not this body". So what, I also know Delhi is north of Mumbai.So it is just information, uh, nothing changes!Let me see if there is any proof: I investigate: Body is born, was not there before, is gross, gets sick, changes, ages, feels good or bad, dies etc etc.But "I" is the same in all those states of body. Before the birth or after the death, I am not sure, because I, as body-mind, have no way of knowing it, just as in sleep too!Even a bulb doesn't know what happens to electricity before it lighted and after it blows!So I remain open for all possibilities of being or not!But "I" cannot be seen, touched, heard, smelt, tasted, or thought about as "this' or "that" because I know all those are perceived objects, none of them is "I", I know for sure!So even they cannot tell me who "I" am.So "I am body" must not be true, after all! I think I have a feeling that "I", even if it is not seen, heard, smelt, touched, tasted or thought about, there is experiencing-knowing-conciousness of on the part of whatever may be that "I" that I am, but it IS, for sure.Hey, even if it is nothing, it still is as no-thing, right?This is now telling me: "I" is the highest certainty/reality of all experiences! If I can say that then I have to know it by experience, right? Now, I can say(intuitively) that "I" is itself this knowing-ness, experiencing! It is "who knows" even ignorance! Oh my god, I thought I am this body-mind organism all this time, and now it is proving 'me" wrong when I inquire! My notions, beliefs cannot stand this inquiry! Can these notions, beliefs be "I-me" who don't want to get caught by such inquiry? Can this "I-me" is "I" that I thought I was?So I say "I just am" whatever that is, doesn't matter, let us say Consciousness is "I".Question: since we all have "I" when we refer to ourselves, could it be many different "I"'s?Since I cannot know "I", nor do they, so let me remain open for all possibilities again, as to its individuality or universality. Can I do that? Can I act as if I am Consciousness?Gurus like Swamiji tell us that God will prove to you its Universality, don't worry.So now I see that "I am-consciousness-awareness" is not a particular body, but all bodies, anything and nothing is "I am", has to be! So all bodies are within "I-consciousness", Itself not bound by bodies!Oh, so who am I hating, myself? who am I loving, myself? who am I killing, myself?Now this is getting exciting and there is a feeling of wellness all around. "I am happy". ah, but that is not really true, rather, "I see happy state being witnessed" is correct, accepted.This is acceptance with understanding and finally Abidance as SELF when "witness" and "witnessed" vanish into Witnessing Presence within and without! Is this what Vasudevah Sarvam?Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--------------------------Pranaam. Just a before coming to the pc and reading this message I was weeping because I miss my Bhaiya who has passed away. As I was weeping this is what he said to me in my mind--dear Sister why are you crying. I am right here besides you. I have just given up my physical body--the flesh and blood one. You know that the soul never perish, so I am still here with you. please don't weep. We all learn about the imperishable Atma, however when someone you love passes away, you forget lessons in moments of deep grief. I've learnt about Atma, even accepted that it never dies when I lost my Pita Ji. With my youngest Brother's passing, grief has made me forget what I have known/ learnt before.In life we read and learn many things, theory, it is the practise that is more important. You can sympathise with a victim of abuse, only when you yourself become a victim then you can begin to understand the suffering that victims endure--you can then empathise. Nanda Kother TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)When one realizes that everything in this world is an illusion andthat includes even one's body, only then will one realize the truth ofthis saying. For that one has to become an enlightened person like theone mentioned in the Geeta for whom happiness and unhappiness are just2 sides of the same coin.Hari Shanker Deo --------------------Dear SadhaksI understand that I am not this body. "I" relate to this world through this body. So it is "my" duty to keep this body healthy. From the discussions on sacred Gita I get a sense that one can go beyond this state. Am "I" right?PranamsVeena Hasan----------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhakas,Hare krishnaLord krishna says in bhagavad-gita"Manapamanayos tulyah,Tulyo mitraripakshayoh,Sarvarambha parityagi,Gunatitah sa ucyate" (gita 14/25)Which means"The person who does equally well in honor and dishonor,who treats friend and foe alike, andWho has given up all materialActivities, such person hasTranscended the modes of nature"Lack of ego and lack of "mine",Feeling have to be seen inAction and in the conduct of ourDaily life.Hare krishnaPrasad iragavarapu,m.d-----------------------------Hari OmBeautiful Question ! Dear Varun, you always love to go deeper. You are very focused. At this age if you are so, believe me the goal will not be long away. Yardsticks are many, Dear Varun. But today, let me give you the toughest. Swamiji once said that if some one calls your name and you get vigilant, attentive, that too is a yardstick to determine if you have or you have not firmly believed that "I am not body" ! Sorry ! But it is true. Very very difficult, isn't it? Remember even in His last Will ( Ek Sant ki Vaseeyat) , he stated how a human loves "name" given to him by the world and wants that his name be remembered even after his death ? That is our Taat Shree ! But when you consider how easily old surname is forgotten and new one is adopted by a married girl , perhaps, that will enthuse you. This liking or glorification of "individual name" represents a very deep attachment to inert and dense ego. Hence, when anyone becomes Sadhu, normally the name is changed. It is not "symbolical" alone, It has a meaning that you are not name. We shall discuss, however, the other yardsticks too. PEACE ! "Nirmamo Niranahankaarscha sah shantimadhigachhati' ( BG 2:71) ! What about Peace ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N BDear Sadaks,Just read Srimath Bagavath where in Veda Vyas running behind his son. Father (Vyas) and Sri Sukji (Son) while crossing nude bathing women, women never covered themselves while Sukji crossed, but covered when Ved Vyas crossed. The women in argument with Vyasji said you know the difference between a tree and woman, but your son does not know the difference. This portion one should read in detail to know the yardstick.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------Dear SadhakThe question is between a person who learns and the person who puts into practice.The person who learns write lenthy answers in our talks and a person put its teachings in actual life reaps the benefits of its teachingsReciting verses of Gita is the main aspect of our life.This was the reason why Mahatma Gandhi was reciting Sanskrita verses every day consistently in his life.Follow him. Truly yours Shankerprasad S BhattPRIOR POSTING: Shree Hari:Ram RamQuestion: How to get rid of Egoism (ahankaar) and a "Sense of Mine" (mamtaa)?From the standpoint of the Discipline of Disinterested Action:(Karmayog)â€'Nothing is mine; because I have no independent claim on things,persons, circumstances, incidents and situations etc. When nothing is mine, itmeans that I need nothing, because if the body is mine, then food, water andclothes etc. for the body become my necessity; but if the body does not belongto me at all, then I have no requirement of anything for myself. When there isclear understanding that nothing is mine and I need nothing, there is noquestion of egoism (feeling of T), because egoism "I-ness" persists by acceptingaffinity for the body, things and circumstances etc.The fact is that the so-called body of mine has an affinity for the world, so itshould be used to render service to the world, because I for myself needsnothing. By having this sort of feeling, egoism perishes and a spiritualaspirant becomes free from egoism and a sense of mine.From the standpoint of Discipline of Knowledge (Jnanayog):†Every man has theinherent realization and knowledge that 'I am'. In I am', 'I', is a part ofnature and 'am' denotes 'reality' (Eternal Existence). This 'am' is used with'I' â€In the absence of 'I', 'am' will not stand. only 'Is' will remain.''I am', 'you are', 'this is' and 'that is' all these four, are in respect ofindividuals, space and time. This is limited conception. If this limitedconception of individual, distance and time is not held on to, then universal'Is' remains. When a aspirant is established in this universal 'Is', he becomescompletely free from the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.From the standpoint of Discipline of Devotion (Bhaktiyog) - What is called 'I'or 'mine' actually belongs to God, because had the persons, things, body beenmine, I might have protected them from decay and had rights over it (possessedit) forever. But it is not so. It means that the so-called body of mine, senses,mind, intellect etc., are His and I am also His. By having this sort of feeling,a striver becomes free from the sense of mine and egoism.From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 137; in English pg 235by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Ram RamFor ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.netFor full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org------------------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderators at their discretion, maymodify the posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -