Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Gurubuster- It'll take me a while to absorb your e-mail...:-) But to answer your question, I have read the Gita on its own. I'm attracted to interpretations because of my confusion regarding the original stanzas. But then I end up getting more confused anyway, so it obviously doesn't help matters. , Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Thanks Salma! ....Sure! Seeing every aspect of our lives as sacred is the real thing for me! Specially when focusing Devi. Kryiananda also tell us in his comments that Paramahamsa Yogananda advised a disciple who was getting weak and sick to be careful with the interrupting of meat eating so abruptly like that disciple was doing cause that would risk the health of that body so used to meat... so he advised him to make that process very gradually! He dealt wisely, as an incredible guide would do, with something treated as a total taboo by yogis and " hindu " dharmis as a whole! To me, thats guru wisdom. thanks again! On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM, sd <salharmonica wrote: > > > Rafael- > > Thanks for your thoughts. I especially related to this: > > " As always, some real spiritual clever good points and others more obscure > and simplistic not in the good way like: God entrapped us in material world > and made self-realization something real hard so we could think it is > worthy... something like working hard to buy a beautiful watch in the end > of > the month? " > > [....] > I would think that someone who's truly enlightened would be open to the > fact that partnership can be spiritual in itself, for some people. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 sd wrote: > > > Gurubuster- > > It'll take me a while to absorb your e-mail...:-) > -------- The absorption........ if it is...........is instantaneous. Time is a notion, hence reflection, pondering, analysis, conclusion whether of agreement or disagreement....all of which require time...... ...are all themselves notional hooplas. --------- > But to answer your question, I have read the Gita on its own. > -------- Which is another interpretation. Arjun after all the dust had settled on the battlefield of Kuruskhetra had settled and after he had donned a new Dhoti..... ......requested Krishna to do a encore of his prattling performance just before the battle started. Krishna declined ...........indicating you cannot step in the same waters twice in a flowing river. After the rendition in the moment through the vehicle named Krishna.....on the playing fields of Kuruskhetra..... ........any further re-production.......is interpretative remix. ----- > I'm attracted to interpretations because of my confusion regarding the > original stanzas. But then I end up getting more confused anyway, so > it obviously doesn't help matters. > -------- Rather than trying to clear the confusion........which only morphs the confusion...... .....the inviting to ascertain..........just who is it......... that is confused. Rather than the what, the who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Salma - > Your last point is a good one! But what would you say about sexual activity? I'm against overindulging in that for personal reasons, but can you relate that to hurting the Earth? Doesn't the desire to attract partners often lead people to desire all sorts of things that they hope will help to make them _attractive_? For instance, fashionable clothes, the right sort of mobile phone, cosmetics, cosmetic surgery, a house or apartment the intended partner (or partners) will feel comfortable in...? >Ironically, the more I read and think about spiritual issues, the more confused I become. For such a long time, I thought Hinduism was benign and non-judgemental in comparison to the brimstone and hellfire of Christianity. But now that I'm reading Yogananda's interpretation of the Gita, this sacred book seems to be as 'fire and brimstone' motivated as the Bible! I don't know what to think...I'm feeling a bit disoriented. Different Hindu writings and schools offer a range of viewpoints and visions -- as do different Christian writings and schools for that matter. I know what you mean by brimstone and hellfire; but there is also a section of the Bible called the Song of Songs, which celebrates Solomon's union with his dark bride, the Shulamite; just as the Gita Govinda (a different piece of writing to the Bhagavad Gita) celebrates the love of Radha and Krishna. Om Shantih Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The practitioner and scholar of Kashmir Shaivism par excellence, Abhinavagupta, wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad Gita called Gitartha Samgraha. I have not read this work, but perhaps someone in the group has, and could offer some insight, given that Sri Abhinavagupta was a tantrika. For those interested in obtained a recent rendering of this text, it is available from http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDD714/. Even if you're not interested in getting the book, there is useful information given on the page above, including a few excerpts from the text with brief context given. The following is taken from the above page describing the book, and it comes " From the Jacket " : --- Abhinavagupta explains in his commentary that he undertook this work because he felt that his predecessors when commenting on the Bhagavad Gita had not understood its secret or exoteric meanings. With the main purpose to explain these exoteric meaning, Abhinvavagupta elaborates the secret doctrine of the purification of the sense organs through the alternation of enjoyment of worldly objects and deep meditation. He claims that the continuous exchange of two contradictory experiences, i.e., gratification of the senses, which brings satisfaction and samadhi in which sense organs are reduced to one's own atman, quickly brings the highest good. --- C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Well...I see what you're saying about the acquisition of material things, etc. but all that is just attraction on a superficial level. If someone really wants to attract a spiritual love in her or his life, all that stuff isn't really important. I had no idea about that part of Christianity. THanks! salma , " colin777au " <colinr wrote: > > > > Salma - > > > Your last point is a good one! But what would you say about sexual activity? I'm against overindulging in that for personal reasons, but can you relate that to hurting the Earth? > > Doesn't the desire to attract partners often lead people to desire all sorts of things that they hope will help to make them _attractive_? For instance, fashionable clothes, the right sort of mobile phone, cosmetics, cosmetic surgery, a house or apartment the intended partner (or partners) will feel comfortable in...? > > >Ironically, the more I read and think about spiritual issues, the more confused I become. For such a long time, I thought Hinduism was benign and > non-judgemental in comparison to the brimstone and hellfire of Christianity. But now that I'm reading Yogananda's interpretation of the Gita, this sacred book seems to be as 'fire and brimstone' motivated as the Bible! I don't know what to think...I'm feeling a bit disoriented. > > Different Hindu writings and schools offer a range of viewpoints and visions -- as do different Christian writings and schools for that matter. I know what you mean by brimstone and hellfire; but there is also a section of the Bible called the Song of Songs, which celebrates Solomon's union with his dark bride, the Shulamite; just as the Gita Govinda (a different piece of writing to the Bhagavad Gita) celebrates the love of Radha and Krishna. > > Om Shantih > Colin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 That seems to be along the lines of the moderation issue Krsna advised, no? , " intimationsofinfinity " <intimationsofinfinity wrote: > > The practitioner and scholar of Kashmir Shaivism par excellence, Abhinavagupta, wrote a commentary on the Bhagavad Gita called Gitartha Samgraha. > > I have not read this work, but perhaps someone in the group has, and could offer some insight, given that Sri Abhinavagupta was a tantrika. > > For those interested in obtained a recent rendering of this text, it is available from http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/IDD714/. > > Even if you're not interested in getting the book, there is useful information given on the page above, including a few excerpts from the text with brief context given. > > The following is taken from the above page describing the book, and it comes " From the Jacket " : > > --- > Abhinavagupta explains in his commentary that he undertook this work because he felt that his predecessors when commenting on the Bhagavad Gita had not understood its secret or exoteric meanings. With the main purpose to explain these exoteric meaning, Abhinvavagupta elaborates the secret doctrine of the purification of the sense organs through the alternation of enjoyment of worldly objects and deep meditation. He claims that the continuous exchange of two contradictory experiences, i.e., gratification of the senses, which brings satisfaction and samadhi in which sense organs are reduced to one's own atman, quickly brings the highest good. > --- > > C. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Not having read Abhinavagupta's work, I can't add much of my own, but my sense is that it goes beyond the moderation tack; that artha or meaning is already patently available in a reading of the Gita. What his commentary purports to unfold is its rahasya or inner import, and, he being a tantrika, it can be pretty much assured that his analysis will run along a different line than the standard ones based on the Vedantic perspective using the Upanishads and the Brahma Sutras in addition to the Gita as the foundational texts and reference points for a discourse. Though I don't like to quote wholesale too much, I know many readers will not go to the page given below, and for their convenience, I've reproduced some text from there. --------- He does not want to repeat the interpretations of his predecessors, such as Bhatta Bhaskara, and does not comment on the verses where the meaning of the text is obvious. For this very reason, he did not comment on each and every verse of the Gita's text. He is concerned with the essence of the teaching (cp. 18, 63), which is supreme non-duality (paramaadvaita), and which can neither be satisfactorily explained by the dry philosophical system of Samkhya (18, 67), nor Vedanta. He clearly states in his interpretation of 18, 63 that the knowledge taught by Sri Krsna to Arjuna is more esoteric than Vedanta (guhyat-vedantadapi guhyam). It is because the author was concerned with the essence of the Gita and not with its commonly understood meaning that the commentary is called arthasamgraha, and neither bhasya nor tika. But what is this esoteric meaning? To give only a few examples: when in chapter 4 a kind of pranayama is taught, and it is said that prana is offered into apana, and also apana is offered into prana (verses 29-30), Abhinavagupta does not only give the yogic interpretation, where prana in the form of primordial sound (nada) is rising through the subtle centers of the yogic body, but he also gives a secret practice of initiation, where the apana (inhaling breath) [is] of the guru. In this process, both guru and disciple attain liberation. Similarly, the different kinds of sacrifice are explained as an offering into the fire of one-pointedness, which is also interpreted in the light of a practice described in the Vijnana Bhairava: " This fire of one-pointedness, which is insatiated, is lit by right knowledge. The purport is that they grasp objects either (really) enjoyed or imagined by a one-pointed mind, while at the same time they turn away from all other objects. " (4:27-28). By these esoteric interpretations in the light of Kashmir Shaivism, the Gita reveals a new dimension of spiritual practice or yoga. --------- , " sd " <salharmonica wrote: > > That seems to be along the lines of the moderation issue Krsna advised, no? > > , " intimationsofinfinity " <intimationsofinfinity@> wrote: > > --- > > Abhinavagupta explains in his commentary that he undertook this work because he felt that his predecessors when commenting on the Bhagavad Gita had not understood its secret or exoteric meanings. With the main purpose to explain these exoteric meaning, Abhinvavagupta elaborates the secret doctrine of the purification of the sense organs through the alternation of enjoyment of worldly objects and deep meditation. He claims that the continuous exchange of two contradictory experiences, i.e., gratification of the senses, which brings satisfaction and samadhi in which sense organs are reduced to one's own atman, quickly brings the highest good. > > --- > > > > C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 salma the confusioin is very natural. one should have confusion before getting the enlightenment. iam sure this will slowly lead you to more brighter paths. the reply of gurubuster was really nice. enjoyment of pleasure try to do without the element of desire pranam , Gurubuster <fanatofida wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 In a somewhat similar vein, group members might find the following interesting: _Poised for Grace: Annotations on the Bhagavad Gita from a Tantric Perspective_ Douglas Brooks Anusara Press, 2008 ISBN 978-0-9791509-7-5 Brooks draws from Abhinavagupta's work, but notes " [....] I [brooks] have chosen a broader Tantric rendering rooted in my own studies and experience from within the tradtion. I mean to paint in broad stroakes and yet create a picture that is coherent enough to suggest a strategy for the reader's studies of the _Bhagavadgita_ as a Tantric text. " I haven't seen the book on the used booksites yet, and Amazon didn't have it the last time I looked. In the U.S. it's available from http://preview.tinyurl.com/ydffyq5 , " intimationsofinfinity " <intimationsofinfinity wrote: > > [....] Abhinavagupta's work, [....] he being a tantrika, it can be pretty much assured that his analysis will run along a different line than the standard ones based on the Vedantic perspective [....] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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