Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Namaste, Why have different people - saints - described self-realization so differently? 1) Sri Rama Maharishi says in the experience of self, everything feels like only the self exists. 2) Sri Aurobindo says NIrvikalapa Samadhi feels like there is no I-ness. 3)Lord Buddha says it is a void. If it is the same thing all are describing, why is there such a vast difference in the experince of the same reality? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra .. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Namaste Rajarshi,The bright star in the sky analogy that Narasimha posted (/message/83) may answer your questions. Few excerpts of that mail:> After all, Rigveda says " ekam sat vipraa bahudhaa vadanti " , which means> " Truth is One, but the learned call differently " . . . .> As you break through any face of the diamond > and jump into the interior of the diamond, you no longer perceive the faces > of the diamond or the world outside. There are no longer any objects or > attributes. There is no I-ness or It-ness or experience. The experiencer, > experienced and experience all merge into one.Sri Aurobindo's and Sri Ramana Maharishi's versions seems to be covered in the third and fourth sentences. No objects or attributes may be equivalent to void as in Buddha's version. -KishoreOn Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:38 AM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: Namaste, Why have different people - saints - described self-realization so differently? 1) Sri Rama Maharishi says in the experience of self, everything feels like only the self exists. 2) Sri Aurobindo says NIrvikalapa Samadhi feels like there is no I-ness. 3)Lord Buddha says it is a void. If it is the same thing all are describing, why is there such a vast difference in the experince of the same reality? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra .. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Dear Rajarishi, namaste A salt doll went to the ocean to measure its depth and tell the same to its fellow salt doll comrades. But the moment it entered the ocean, it dissolved and now how was it to tell the depth of the ocean to its comrades? - Ramakrishna Paramahamsa Those who experienced self-realization find it hard to describe about their experiences in pretty much the same way that a person finds it hard to describe the taste of sugar to another person who has never taken sugar, I hope this helps. Narasimha gave a reply to my question on nirvikalpa and sahaja samadhi. I trust you read that mail. best regards Hari On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 8:08 PM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: Namaste, Why have different people - saints - described self-realization so differently? 1) Sri Rama Maharishi says in the experience of self, everything feels like only the self exists. 2) Sri Aurobindo says NIrvikalapa Samadhi feels like there is no I-ness. 3)Lord Buddha says it is a void. If it is the same thing all are describing, why is there such a vast difference in the experince of the same reality? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra .. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Namaste, I understand the example given in that superb mail, yet some confusion exist (in my understanding). See, Sri Ramakrishna, when he was asked about Nirvikalpa Samadhi said he cannot describe it in words like the salt doll example provided by Hari. > After all, Rigveda says "ekam sat vipraa bahudhaa vadanti", which means> "Truth is One, but the learned call differently". True. Now I see this line in different ways - 1) As different saints have mentioned different sadhanas/paths to achieve God. 2) Secondly as you mentioned, that Truth is One, but saints call it differently. From from the diamond analogy I understand that if X reaches a certain face of the diamond and Y reaches another face of the diamond, they percieve it differently, thought both faces are the same diamond, just different aspects. This is OK. This can be equal to savikalpa samadhi and may be experienced differently depending upon the individual. Now > As you break through any face of the diamond> and jump into the interior of the diamond, you no longer perceive the faces > of the diamond or the world outside. There are no longer any objects or > attributes. There is no I-ness or It-ness or experience. The experiencer, > experienced and experience all merge into one. 1) This seems logical and is also the main cause of my confusion. When we say that we enter the middle of the diamond, when duality is no more, then how can it be experienced differently by different people? Shouldn't it be the same? I thought, whichever face of teh diamond you chose as your entry point, the middle of teh diamond should feel and look exactly similar. Please correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. And yet these three spiritual gaints have spoken differently of their realizations. If duality itself does not exist, then how can the field of possiblity at all arise? Which means, how can there be a difference in the "perception" of the same One final Truth? 2) Not to mention the query about whether, that which is transcendental in its basic nature (Truth/One/Middle of the diamond), can at all be described from within the field of duality? Then I wonder why these three people - saints of highest order - try to describe it when all descriptions are from within duality... Considering the above, I understand the wisdom (theoritically) of why Ramakrishna refused to describe Nirvikalpa Samadhi. I also wonder whether the three saints, Sri Ramana Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo and Lord Buddha were speaking from teh same realization of the One/Truth, or was it different kinds of realizations. By this I mean, can it be possible that there are different intermediate or not properly documented stages of samadhi apart from the standard savikalpa/nirvikalpa/sajaha? PS: I can understand that maybe Buddha did not mention a void per se, he probably mentioned that there is nothing - for lack of any better words - and stopped further discussion. Over years his words could have got corrupted to some degree and people mistook it to mean Buddha was saying there is a void. -Regards Rajarshi .. . . The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Tue, 29/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapu wrote:Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapuRe: Samadhi Date: Tuesday, 29 December, 2009, 9:00 PM Namaste Rajarshi,The bright star in the sky analogy that Narasimha posted (http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 83) may answer your questions.Few excerpts of that mail:> After all, Rigveda says "ekam sat vipraa bahudhaa vadanti", which means> "Truth is One, but the learned call differently". . . .> As you break through any face of the diamond> and jump into the interior of the diamond, you no longer perceive the faces > of the diamond or the world outside. There are no longer any objects or > attributes. There is no I-ness or It-ness or experience. The experiencer, > experienced and experience all merge into one.Sri Aurobindo's and Sri Ramana Maharishi's versions seems to be covered in the third and fourth sentences. No objects or attributes may be equivalent to void as in Buddha's version. -Kishore On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:38 AM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Namaste, Why have different people - saints - described self-realization so differently? 1) Sri Rama Maharishi says in the experience of self, everything feels like only the self exists. 2) Sri Aurobindo says NIrvikalapa Samadhi feels like there is no I-ness. 3)Lord Buddha says it is a void. If it is the same thing all are describing, why is there such a vast difference in the experince of the same reality? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra .. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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