Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Dear Utpal, Thanks a lot for the dohas! Did not know it was Hanuman Jayanti. Would have tried doing a homa of Lord Hanuman. I wish someday I can memorize the Hanuman Chalisa, its extremely beautiful. Just now an interesting coincident (?) came to mind. That night before I wrote that mail about my friend and the consequent chain of mails, I was talking to my mentor (guru). It was a normal conversation. At the end of the conversation before he hung up, he paused for a moment and suddenly said "Jai Ram ji ki".I was little taken aback for a second, I did not expect to hear "Jai Ramji ki". It is not like he normally uses that phrase often or anything. So I was a little frigid for a second, then he repeated it again, and I too repeated it in a flow and said "Jai Ramji ki" - loud and clear. Now as I look back I find it very interesting, because the next day while I was writing these mail I had spend the major part of the day thinking of Lord Rama. I personally am a firm believer in Rama as God and have often prayed to him. The name itself is so powerful, I feel. Jai Sri Rama! -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Wed, 16/12/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (Rama & Tulasi Das) Date: Wednesday, 16 December, 2009, 6:23 PM Namaste Rajarshi,Just now a colleague cum Friend told me that Today they celiberate "Hnaumaan Jayanit" in South India.Feel Good coincidence! I am happy that i sent some message regarding Tulasidas ji on this very day.I remembered, Sant Tulasi Das's doha dedicated to Lord Hanumaan:Pavan Tanaya Sankata HaranA| Mangal Murtirup |Rama Lakahan Sita Sahit Hriday bashahu Surbhup||other few...***Janke Bhayase Girivar Kanpe, Roga Shoka janke Nikat na jaanpe|Jay Jay Jay Hanumaan Gosain, Krupa Karahu guru devaki nai||***Chitrakut ke ghat pe bhai santan ki bheed|Tulasidas chandan ghase, tilak kare Raghubir||Siyaavar Ramachandra ki jai, Pavansut Hanumaan ki jai,Bolore bhai Sab santan ki jai.Utpal, "vedic_pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ...> wrote:>> > Dear(est) Rajarshi,> > back engineering job to bail out> > Vow! Refreshing phrase. Too good. It seems a season of debating.> Branches of threads are coming out.> > 'Kamini and `Kanchan' was the exact words which Ramakrishna used> freely during his life time. Now Kamini means a woman and its possible> that several sections would have taken reservation at this. That seems> very obvious otherwise why Swami Sardananda required to defend Thakur in> his book called Ramakrishna Lilaprasanga. It seemed to me that> Paramahansa Yogananda also have referred to this issue without> mentioning Thakur's name directly (I may be wrong but i strongly felt> like that when i read the 'Autobiography of a yogi' some 4/5 years> back). Sardanada in a sense did 'Back engineering job to bail out ' .> If we go by 'Kamini' word literaly, then Thakur could be portrayed as> Women basher. but we all know that Thakur refffered to Lust and Desire> of worldly objects whenever he spoke those two words. Jumping on> conclusion without properly studying/thinking about Thakur's life, just> on literal meaning of those 2 words would be a sure blasphemy.> > Same way, I also thought about Sant Tulasi das ji. I was telling myself> that can a saint of his devotion and poetic skills and add to that> steadfastly devoted to Lord Rama (Who never shown slightest dis-resepct> to women) , utter such words and saggrigate 'Nari' for nothing. I was> not convinced. One of the 'Dohas' of Tulasi Das goes like this -> > [Prem, Ahinsa], Satya Vachan aur Par-stri Matusamaan|> > Inase agar prabhu na mile to Tulasi Juth Jabaan ||> > (I have given this doha out of memory and its quite possible that first> two wrods are wrong in the doha)> > If a poet is asking to look at a woman as a Mother, how could he mean> 'Nari' to be 'Tadan Adhikari'? As you pointed out, on a look at surface> (at the levelof text), it means which many belives but you and me need> to look at little deeper. A person who did the world of Good to Indias> ordinary masses by rewriting the whole Ramayana in a language which> people (from north) could easily understand, The man who gave immortal> 'Hanumaan Chalisa' can not be lebeled so casually as 'Nari basher' or> 'Shudra Hater' (As Mayaavati brand poticians would capitalise).> > Regarding your questions of why Pashu are only Nari and not Nara....> > I think he was reffering to Men with the words Ganvaar and Shudra and> Pashu Nari must be a joint statement. Again as you already know, Shudra> was not B.C., OBC, KBC, HSBC etc.. :-). but a fallen man, a mean> thinking man. I have to agree if you say that Ganvaar and Shudra can> also be said about Woaman however looking at the Doha and general> prevailing conditions of society, it seems that he used those words for> Men.> > Grammar...Hmmmm. i don't know if he has really used proper grammer in> such Dohas.> > There are verse in Bhagvad Gita which can be criticised by people from> other faiths if they are taken literaly and without understanding> personality of Krishna.> > ***> > Regarding Ramachandra, Thank you for making clear, your notable friend's> view and your detailed explanation by giving examples. But again i> don't think that to consider Rama as God will actually be blockage> in leading life like him and that too when almost everybody in Sanatan> Dharma knows him as God. Tthat is not reversible in any case. And above> all, Incarnation of Lord Vishnu - He is a GOD> > ***> > > > You and I've notably common Astrological factors in our chart.> Astrologer in me found out just few days back but I'll not give it> hear for the obvious reason lest our own Mr. Narasimha should get mad at> me.> > Warm Regards,> > Utpal> > PS: I am writing every reference from my memory so please correct me> when I am wrong in giving any reference> > > > > > > > > @ . com, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ >> wrote:> >> > Dear Utpal,> > Â> > I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on> women.> > The actual poem is like this:> > || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari ||> > Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu> Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish> a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes> good sense atleast to me.> > Â> > I am no one to comment on an accepted saint like Sri Tulasidasji' s> spiritual level, but that sentence definitely looks like he clubbed> "pashu" and "naari" in same category, not pashu-nari. The highlighting> is done by you, not in the actual text. If he ment pashu-nari he should> have used some basic grammer to remove confusion. He did not. At the> level of text, it is indefensible. Also, if I go by your explanation,> why only Naari who are pashu, why not Naras who are like pashus? There> are more Naaras of Pashu nature than Naaris in the world. This> explanation that you found looks more like a back engineering job> to bail out.> > Â> > Â> > Regarding Rama self realization, I think I was unable to express the> ideas of my friend clearly. Let me try again. He is not really saying> that Sri Rama was not a self realized man. Infact he quite agrees that> Sri Rama was an Avatar of God. What he says is that, (his opinion)Â> God did not descend as Sri Rama in order to be worshipped. He descended> in order to lead by example. That is why the text is called Rama+ayana.> A path that an ordinary man can and should follow. One of> principles. Compare this to the name of the other great epic,> Mahabharata, which was not named "Krishna+ayana" . One cannot follow> Krishna's path.> > Â> > Whenever, according to him, we attribute Godhood to Sri Rama, our> subcsious mind will create a blockage, a divide between the worshipper> and the worshipped and thus make it impossible to lead a life like Rama> did. BUt if we try to look at it like the story of a great king, a nobel> man, a devoted husband etc, we have a better chance of following such a> life.> > An ordinary man cannot lead the life of a God but he can follow the> life of a great man.> > Â> > Similarly, even today lot of people advise that one should try to> become like Vivekananda, or that this country needs its youth to be like> Vivekanadas in teh future. It does not mean Vivekanada was not a self> realized saint of highest calibre, but his life's image is likeÂ> one who lived like a lion among sheep of ordinary men, fearless> and uncompromising and principled. If every person would constantly> think that Vivekanada was a saint who worked by the pwoer of a deity> or due to his extreme spirituality or the blessing of a great guru,Â> no one will ever make an attempt to be inspired by him or emulate> his way of living.Vivekanada was a spiritual giant, but the image he> projected was one of a tireless, fearless KarmaYogi. THAT can inspire> people.> > Â> >  On the other hand you will never hear anyone advising that> one should try to lead a life like Ramarkishna.  That is> impossible. He was God incarnate leading a charmed life.Â> > Â> > Similar is the case with the Avatar called Sri Ramachandra> incomparison to Sri Krishna. One can become Rama in actions but one can> never become Krishna. Therefore, my friend believes, one should not> consider Rama as a God to be worshipped, but as a model to be followed.> Like Vivekanada.> > Â> > Hope I have put forth his idea clear.> > Â> > -Regards> >  Rajarshi> > Â> > Â> > Â> > Â> > Â> > Â> > Â> >> >> > Â> >> > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> >> > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@ wrote:> >> >> > vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@> > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > > > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 8:29 PM> >> >> > Â> >> >> >> >> > Dear Rajarshi,> > I some how did not read your point no.2.> > >Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or> >something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text >because> Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust.> > I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on> women.> > The actual poem is like this:> > || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari ||> > Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu> Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish> a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes> good sense atleast to me.> > About Lust in Tulasi das: It is well known that Tulasi Das was> extremely attached to his wife so much that he won't allow her to go> even at her parental home for a day. However he left the sansaara in> a Flash. in a moment for ever. That is a great vairaagya.> almost like Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of a> village Man to define the true vairaagya.> > my 2 quick cent!> > Best Regards,> > Utpal> >> > , rajarshi nandy rajarshi14@ ..>> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Kishore and Utpal,> > > ÂÂ> > > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable> if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great> person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the> definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > >> > > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated> debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are> all theoritical/ theological debates - nothing to do with actual> spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting> agitated and it would have affected our friendship.> > > ÂÂ> > > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that> what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses> spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures> using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or> sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most> people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and> uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about> his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and> generally would not discuss God in public.> > > ÂÂ> > > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be> proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per> Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as> God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji.> > > ÂÂ> > > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no".> > > ÂÂ> > > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a> spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal> opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri> Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all> divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a> blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when> he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and> instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as> per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to> worship Rama.> > > ÂÂ> > > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a> hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An> author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but> a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women> with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in> the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust.> Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women.> Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the> purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea> way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was> maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than> Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.> > > ÂÂ> > > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree.> > > ÂÂ> > > ÂÂ> > > Dear Utpal,> > > ÂÂ> > > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food> habits, it'll be great.> > > ÂÂ> > > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself.> But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because> as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely> spiritual angle.> > > ÂÂ> > > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations> etc and then he confirmed them when asked.> > > ÂÂ> > > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific> point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts> of meat (not red meat).> > > ÂÂ> > > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an> ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century> even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his> control of mind and his dedication to truth.> > > ÂÂ> > > -Regards> > >  Rajarshi> > > ÂÂ> > > ÂÂ> > > ÂÂ> > > ÂÂ> > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > >> > > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu@> > > Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > > > > > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM> > >> > >> > > ÂÂ> > >> > >> > >> > > Namaste Rajarshi,> > >> > > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your> words.> > >> > > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His> other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person.> I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he> says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person> claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition> of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > >> > > -Kishore> > >> > >> > >> > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) > co.in> wrote:> > >> > >> > > ÂÂ> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Laxmi Narayan,> > > ÂÂ> > >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know> more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian?> What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a> householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he> had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > > ÂÂ> > > ÂÂ> > > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little> about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone.> He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.> > > ÂÂ> > > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual> life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature> of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first> attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean,> he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If> someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple,> harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it.> Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never> ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small.> When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian> languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later> someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the> world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought> himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten> years every day he spend one hour reading the> > English dictionary and> > > one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up> volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he> just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the> languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge> the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said,> he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth> about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked> in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not> last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English,> Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is> learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he> was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a> job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk> who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space,> > he asked> > > my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu".> Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up> right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu> in the form would have been a lie.> > > ÂÂ> > > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his> friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.> > > ÂÂ> > > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting.> His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by> in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the> temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple,> but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his> watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time> went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the> temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any> movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend> had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in> deep sleep.> > > ÂÂ> > > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he> got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact> most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was> in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the> exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only> his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe> nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of> Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said> it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the> moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the> wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than> everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri> Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why> he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated> > Sri Rama to the> > > level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was> to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he> says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary> man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be> emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can> try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I> am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru> at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days.> Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.> > > ÂÂ> > > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with> all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his> daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on> different internet forums interacting with people, specially with> those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and> everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion,> etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will> be the future of this country.> > > ÂÂ> > > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat> etc.> > > ÂÂ> > > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his> permission before mentioning him.> > > ÂÂ> > > -Regards> > >  Rajarshi> > >> > >> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the> debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >> > >> > > ÂÂ> > >> > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > >> > > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> > > Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's> point of view)> > > > > > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >> > >> > > ÂÂ> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> > > Krishna during his meditations and have experienced> samadhi many times> > > over, who is omnivorous.> > >> > > Hello Rajarshi,> > >        ÂÂ>         ÂÂ>     I was intrigued by above line in your> mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a> friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following??> Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his> life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special> things about him.> > >> > > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first.> So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then> prasdam all around??> > >> > > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his> exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence.> Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and> birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing> all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards> birds and animals.> > >> > > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch> onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi?> > >> > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a> book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa> Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her> progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she> admitted that she was doing secretly.> > >> > > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many> difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in> middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think,> from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also> enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are> their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their> pain and emotions.> > >> > > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these> faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs> and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. > Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about> kindness???> > >> > > Kind Regards> > > LaxmiNarayan> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.> http://in.. com/> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.> http://in.. com/> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 My Brahma Muhurt Pranaams, I should also thank you because the whole y'day i was thinking about Tulasi das and how should i write about him. Even in my morning Japa, i was thinkng about him and Rama. its a feel good sign that it was a Hanumaan Jayanti which i later came to know of(As per south indian they celebrate it with the start of Dhanur Maasa). Your Guru (you need to update the data base of this list wherein you are still waiting....in the column of Guru) also said Jai sri Ram. these are all seems to be not without reasons. Bhagavan Rama may have already given a message! By the way you can ask me to recite Hanumaan Chalisa getting me out of sleep and i'll recite it like a parrot few more before i end..... Daya Dharam ka Mul hai, Paap mul abhima| Tulsi daya na chhandiye, Jab lagi ghat me praan|| Tulasi ees sansaar me bhaat bhaat ke log| Sab se hil-mil rahiye Nadi-Naav Sanjog|| As per Tulasi das ji's claim in Ramacharit manas,Rama says about Shiva: Shiv drohi mam daas kahava| So Nar mohe sapanae hu nahi bhaava|| Finally...Mother Paravati asked Shiva as to what is the best name in the whole world, reciting which, one gets the punya of Vishnu Sahstranama. Bhagavan Shiva Said in reply.. " Rama Rameti Rameti Rame Raame Manorame Sahastra naam Tattulyam Rama Nama varaanane|| Ramapati Ramachadra ki Jay! Umapati Mahadev ki Jay! Utpal na Jay shri Krushna! , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > Dear Utpal, >  > Thanks a lot for the dohas! Did not know it was Hanuman Jayanti. Would have tried doing a homa of Lord Hanuman. I wish someday I can memorize the Hanuman Chalisa, its extremely beautiful. >  > Just now an interesting coincident (?) came to mind. That night before I wrote that mail about my friend and the consequent chain of mails, I was talking to my mentor (guru). It was a normal conversation. At the end of the conversation before he hung up, he paused for a moment and suddenly said " Jai Ram ji ki " .I was little taken aback for a second, I did not expect to hear " Jai Ramji ki " . It is not like he normally uses that phrase often or anything. So I was a little frigid for a second, then he repeated it again, and I too repeated it in a flow and said " Jai Ramji ki " - loud and clear. >  > Now as I look back I find it very interesting, because the next day while I was writing these mail I had spend the major part of the day thinking of Lord Rama. >  > I personally am a firm believer in Rama as God and have often prayed to him. The name itself is so powerful, I feel. >  >  > Jai Sri Rama! >  >  > -Regards >  Rajarshi > > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Wed, 16/12/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: > > > vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (Rama & Tulasi Das) > > Wednesday, 16 December, 2009, 6:23 PM > > >  > > > > Namaste Rajarshi, > > Just now a colleague cum Friend told me that Today they celiberate " Hnaumaan Jayanit " in South India. > > Feel Good coincidence! I am happy that i sent some message regarding Tulasidas ji on this very day. > > I remembered, Sant Tulasi Das's doha dedicated to Lord Hanumaan: > > Pavan Tanaya Sankata HaranA| Mangal Murtirup | > Rama Lakahan Sita Sahit Hriday bashahu Surbhup|| > > other few... > *** > Janke Bhayase Girivar Kanpe, Roga Shoka janke Nikat na jaanpe| > Jay Jay Jay Hanumaan Gosain, Krupa Karahu guru devaki nai|| > > *** > Chitrakut ke ghat pe bhai santan ki bheed| > Tulasidas chandan ghase, tilak kare Raghubir|| > > Siyaavar Ramachandra ki jai, Pavansut Hanumaan ki jai, > Bolore bhai Sab santan ki jai. > > Utpal > > , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear(est) Rajarshi, > > > > back engineering job to bail out > > > > Vow! Refreshing phrase. Too good. It seems a season of debating. > > Branches of threads are coming out. > > > > 'Kamini and `Kanchan' was the exact words which Ramakrishna used > > freely during his life time. Now Kamini means a woman and its possible > > that several sections would have taken reservation at this. That seems > > very obvious otherwise why Swami Sardananda required to defend Thakur in > > his book called Ramakrishna Lilaprasanga. It seemed to me that > > Paramahansa Yogananda also have referred to this issue without > > mentioning Thakur's name directly (I may be wrong but i strongly felt > > like that when i read the 'Autobiography of a yogi' some 4/5 years > > back). Sardanada in a sense did 'Back engineering job to bail out ' . > > If we go by 'Kamini' word literaly, then Thakur could be portrayed as > > Women basher. but we all know that Thakur refffered to Lust and Desire > > of worldly objects whenever he spoke those two words. Jumping on > > conclusion without properly studying/thinking about Thakur's life, just > > on literal meaning of those 2 words would be a sure blasphemy. > > > > Same way, I also thought about Sant Tulasi das ji. I was telling myself > > that can a saint of his devotion and poetic skills and add to that > > steadfastly devoted to Lord Rama (Who never shown slightest dis-resepct > > to women) , utter such words and saggrigate 'Nari' for nothing. I was > > not convinced. One of the 'Dohas' of Tulasi Das goes like this - > > > > [Prem, Ahinsa], Satya Vachan aur Par-stri Matusamaan| > > > > Inase agar prabhu na mile to Tulasi Juth Jabaan || > > > > (I have given this doha out of memory and its quite possible that first > > two wrods are wrong in the doha) > > > > If a poet is asking to look at a woman as a Mother, how could he mean > > 'Nari' to be 'Tadan Adhikari'? As you pointed out, on a look at surface > > (at the levelof text), it means which many belives but you and me need > > to look at little deeper. A person who did the world of Good to Indias > > ordinary masses by rewriting the whole Ramayana in a language which > > people (from north) could easily understand, The man who gave immortal > > 'Hanumaan Chalisa' can not be lebeled so casually as 'Nari basher' or > > 'Shudra Hater' (As Mayaavati brand poticians would capitalise). > > > > Regarding your questions of why Pashu are only Nari and not Nara.... > > > > I think he was reffering to Men with the words Ganvaar and Shudra and > > Pashu Nari must be a joint statement. Again as you already know, Shudra > > was not B.C., OBC, KBC, HSBC etc.. :-). but a fallen man, a mean > > thinking man. I have to agree if you say that Ganvaar and Shudra can > > also be said about Woaman however looking at the Doha and general > > prevailing conditions of society, it seems that he used those words for > > Men. > > > > Grammar...Hmmmm. i don't know if he has really used proper grammer in > > such Dohas. > > > > There are verse in Bhagvad Gita which can be criticised by people from > > other faiths if they are taken literaly and without understanding > > personality of Krishna. > > > > *** > > > > Regarding Ramachandra, Thank you for making clear, your notable friend's > > view and your detailed explanation by giving examples. But again i > > don't think that to consider Rama as God will actually be blockage > > in leading life like him and that too when almost everybody in Sanatan > > Dharma knows him as God. Tthat is not reversible in any case. And above > > all, Incarnation of Lord Vishnu - He is a GOD > > > > *** > > > > > > > > You and I've notably common Astrological factors in our chart. > > Astrologer in me found out just few days back but I'll not give it > > hear for the obvious reason lest our own Mr. Narasimha should get mad at > > me. > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Utpal > > > > PS: I am writing every reference from my memory so please correct me > > when I am wrong in giving any reference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Utpal, > > >  > > > I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on > > women. > > > The actual poem is like this: > > > || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || > > > Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant " Pashu > > Naari " and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish > > a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes > > good sense atleast to me. > > >  > > > I am no one to comment on an accepted saint like Sri Tulasidasji' s > > spiritual level, but that sentence definitely looks like he clubbed > > " pashu " and " naari " in same category, not pashu-nari. The highlighting > > is done by you, not in the actual text. If he ment pashu-nari he should > > have used some basic grammer to remove confusion. He did not. At the > > level of text, it is indefensible. Also, if I go by your explanation, > > why only Naari who are pashu, why not Naras who are like pashus? There > > are more Naaras of Pashu nature than Naaris in the world. This > > explanation that you found looks more like a back engineering job > > to bail out. > > >  > > >  > > > Regarding Rama self realization, I think I was unable to express the > > ideas of my friend clearly. Let me try again. He is not really saying > > that Sri Rama was not a self realized man. Infact he quite agrees that > > Sri Rama was an Avatar of God. What he says is that, (his opinion) > > God did not descend as Sri Rama in order to be worshipped. He descended > > in order to lead by example. That is why the text is called Rama+ayana. > > A path that an ordinary man can and should follow. One of > > principles. Compare this to the name of the other great epic, > > Mahabharata, which was not named " Krishna+ayana " . One cannot follow > > Krishna's path. > > >  > > > Whenever, according to him, we attribute Godhood to Sri Rama, our > > subcsious mind will create a blockage, a divide between the worshipper > > and the worshipped and thus make it impossible to lead a life like Rama > > did. BUt if we try to look at it like the story of a great king, a nobel > > man, a devoted husband etc, we have a better chance of following such a > > life. > > > An ordinary man cannot lead the life of a God but he can follow the > > life of a great man. > > >  > > > Similarly, even today lot of people advise that one should try to > > become like Vivekananda, or that this country needs its youth to be like > > Vivekanadas in teh future. It does not mean Vivekanada was not a self > > realized saint of highest calibre, but his life's image is like > > one who lived like a lion among sheep of ordinary men, fearless > > and uncompromising and principled. If every person would constantly > > think that Vivekanada was a saint who worked by the pwoer of a deity > > or due to his extreme spirituality or the blessing of a great guru, > > no one will ever make an attempt to be inspired by him or emulate > > his way of living.Vivekanada was a spiritual giant, but the image he > > projected was one of a tireless, fearless KarmaYogi. THAT can inspire > > people. > > >  > > >  On the other hand you will never hear anyone advising that > > one should try to lead a life like Ramarkishna.  That is > > impossible. He was God incarnate leading a charmed life. > > >  > > > Similar is the case with the Avatar called Sri Ramachandra > > incomparison to Sri Krishna. One can become Rama in actions but one can > > never become Krishna. Therefore, my friend believes, one should not > > consider Rama as a God to be worshipped, but as a model to be followed. > > Like Vivekanada. > > >  > > > Hope I have put forth his idea clear. > > >  > > > -Regards > > >  Rajarshi > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > > > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@ > > > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) > > > > > > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 8:29 PM > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rajarshi, > > > I some how did not read your point no.2. > > > >Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or > > >something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text >because > > Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. > > > I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on > > women. > > > The actual poem is like this: > > > || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || > > > Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant " Pashu > > Naari " and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish > > a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes > > good sense atleast to me. > > > About Lust in Tulasi das: It is well known that Tulasi Das was > > extremely attached to his wife so much that he won't allow her to go > > even at her parental home for a day. However he left the sansaara in > > a Flash. in a moment for ever. That is a great vairaagya. > > almost like Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of a > > village Man to define the true vairaagya. > > > my 2 quick cent! > > > Best Regards, > > > Utpal > > > > > > , rajarshi nandy rajarshi14@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore and Utpal, > > > >  > > > > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable > > if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great > > person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the > > definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna? > > > > > > > > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated > > debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are > > all theoritical/ theological debates - nothing to do with actual > > spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting > > agitated and it would have affected our friendship. > > > >  > > > > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that > > what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses > > spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures > > using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or > > sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most > > people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and > > uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about > > his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and > > generally would not discuss God in public. > > > >  > > > > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be > > proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per > > Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as > > God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji. > > > >  > > > > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is " no " . > > > >  > > > > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a > > spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal > > opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri > > Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all > > divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a > > blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when > > he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and > > instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as > > per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to > > worship Rama. > > > >  > > > > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a > > hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An > > author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but > > a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women > > with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in > > the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. > > Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. > > Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the > > purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea > > way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was > > maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than > > Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks. > > > >  > > > > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. > > > >  > > > >  > > > > Dear Utpal, > > > >  > > > > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food > > habits, it'll be great. > > > >  > > > > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. > > But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because > > as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely > > spiritual angle. > > > >  > > > > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations > > etc and then he confirmed them when asked. > > > >  > > > > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific > > point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts > > of meat (not red meat). > > > >  > > > > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an > > ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century > > even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his > > control of mind and his dedication to truth. > > > >  > > > > -Regards > > > >  Rajarshi > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu@ > > > > Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Rajarshi, > > > > > > > > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your > > words. > > > > > > > > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His > > other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. > > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he > > says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person > > claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition > > of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna? > > > > > > > > -Kishore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) > > co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Laxmi Narayan, > > > >  > > > >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know > > more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? > > What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a > > householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he > > had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him. > > > >  > > > >  > > > > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little > > about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. > > He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well. > > > >  > > > > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual > > life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature > > of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first > > attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, > > he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If > > someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, > > harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. > > Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never > > ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. > > When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian > > languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later > > someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the > > world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought > > himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten > > years every day he spend one hour reading the > > > English dictionary and > > > > one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up > > volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he > > just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the > > languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge > > the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, > > he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth > > about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked > > in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not > > last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, > > Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is > > learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he > > was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a > > job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk > > who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, > > > he asked > > > > my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote " Hindu " . > > Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up > > right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu > > in the form would have been a lie. > > > >  > > > > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his > > friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga. > > > >  > > > > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. > > His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by > > in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the > > temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, > > but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his > > watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time > > went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the > > temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any > > movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend > > had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in > > deep sleep. > > > >  > > > > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he > > got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact > > most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was > > in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the > > exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only > > his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe > > nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of > > Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said > > it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the > > moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the > > wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than > > everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri > > Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why > > he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated > > > Sri Rama to the > > > > level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was > > to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he > > says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary > > man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be > > emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can > > try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I > > am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru > > at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. > > Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more. > > > >  > > > > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with > > all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his > > daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on > > different internet forums interacting with people, specially with > > those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and > > everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, > > etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will > > be the future of this country. > > > >  > > > > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat > > etc. > > > >  > > > > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his > > permission before mentioning him. > > > >  > > > > -Regards > > > >  Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the > > debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> > > > > Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's > > point of view) > > > > > > > > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees > > > > Krishna during his meditations and have experienced > > samadhi many times > > > > over, who is omnivorous. > > > > > > > > Hello Rajarshi, > > > >         > >          > >     I was intrigued by above line in your > > mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a > > friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? > > Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his > > life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special > > things about him. > > > > > > > > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. > > So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then > > prasdam all around?? > > > > > > > > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his > > exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. > > Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and > > birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing > > all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards > > birds and animals. > > > > > > > > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch > > onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > > > > > > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a > > book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa > > Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her > > progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she > > admitted that she was doing secretly. > > > > > > > > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many > > difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in > > middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, > > from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also > > enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are > > their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their > > pain and emotions. > > > > > > > > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these > > faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs > > and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. > > Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about > > kindness??? > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > > LaxmiNarayan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > http://in.. com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > http://in.. com/ > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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