Guest guest Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Dear Rajarshi, If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun >rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually >never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. This is something very very very exceptional! Thank you very much for sharing this. He is really an inspirational person. This also reminds me of Thakur who said that i asked Kali to take away everything but did not ask to take away *Truth* from him becuase Truth is one sure aspect of God. *** About lord Ramachandra, like you and kishore, i also have reservations but that is part and parcel. I've only one reasoning for this and that is what Narasimha has many times stated "in dual world, mother is the supreme power. she can delude *any one*. even the person who goes in Samadhi" *** No debate what so ever. One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great. Thanks for sharing this. Best Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:>> Dear Laxmi Narayan,>  >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.>  >  > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.>  > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and> one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked> my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. >  > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.>  > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep.>  > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the> level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.>  > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country.>  > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc.>  > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him.>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan shrijishrihari wrote:> > > Laxmi Narayan shrijishrihari Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)> > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times> over, who is omnivorous.> > Hello Rajarshi,>                      I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??> > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.> > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.> > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.> > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???> > Kind Regards> LaxmiNarayan> > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Dear Kishore and Utpal, I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna? Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being. They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public. Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji. 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no". 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama. 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks. The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. Dear Utpal, One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great. I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked. I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapu wrote: Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapuRe: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) Date: Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM Namaste Rajarshi,Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?-Kishore On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Laxmi Narayan, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him. Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well. Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga. One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep. Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more. Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country. He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc. I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him. -Regards Rajarshi PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information. The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote: Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who seesKrishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many timesover, who is omnivorous.Hello Rajarshi, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???Kind RegardsLaxmiNarayan--- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Namaste Rajarshi and Kishore, >such a great person claims Rama is not God.< Rishi Vasishtha in "Yoga Vaasishtha" without ambiguity declares Rama as an incarnation of God in front of the complete Royal assembly, sages and citizens while Rama was absorbed in Nirvikalpa Samadhi. "Ideal Man" tag does not seem proper for the Lord Rama however He is a God who portrayed himself as an Ideal Man. Just wanted to pointout this because Yoga Vaasishtham is a part of Valmiki Ramayana. The book which is an absolute Gem of Advaita philosophy. *** > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits On a second thought, i agree with you and i need not ask him because answer is already provided by 'The Mother of the Universe' a couple of days back. Warm Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:>> Dear Kishore and Utpal,>  > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. >  > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public.>  > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji.>  > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no". >  > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama.>  > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.>  > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. >  >  > Dear Utpal,>  > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great.>  > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. >  > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked.>  > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). >  > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. >  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu wrote:> > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM> > >  > > > > Namaste Rajarshi,> > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.> > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > -Kishore> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Laxmi Narayan,>  >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.>  >  > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.>  > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and> one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked> my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. >  > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.>  > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep.>  > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the> level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.>  > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country.>  > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc.>  > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him.>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote:> > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)> > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >  > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times> over, who is omnivorous.> > Hello Rajarshi,>                      I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??> > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.> > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.> > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.> > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???> > Kind Regards> LaxmiNarayan> > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Dear Rajarshi, I some how did not read your point no.2. >Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or >something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text >because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on women. The actual poem is like this: || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes good sense atleast to me. About Lust in Tulasi das: It is well known that Tulasi Das was extremely attached to his wife so much that he won't allow her to go even at her parental home for a day. However he left the sansaara in a Flash. in a moment for ever. That is a great vairaagya. almost like Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of a village Man to define the true vairaagya. my 2 quick cent! Best Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:>> Dear Kishore and Utpal,>  > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. >  > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public.>  > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji.>  > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no". >  > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama.>  > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.>  > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. >  >  > Dear Utpal,>  > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great.>  > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. >  > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked.>  > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). >  > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. >  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu wrote:> > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM> > >  > > > > Namaste Rajarshi,> > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.> > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > -Kishore> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Laxmi Narayan,>  >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.>  >  > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.>  > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and> one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked> my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. >  > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.>  > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep.>  > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the> level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.>  > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country.>  > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc.>  > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him.>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote:> > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)> > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >  > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times> over, who is omnivorous.> > Hello Rajarshi,>                      I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??> > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.> > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.> > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.> > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???> > Kind Regards> LaxmiNarayan> > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Dear Utpal, I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on women. The actual poem is like this: || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes good sense atleast to me. I am no one to comment on an accepted saint like Sri Tulasidasji's spiritual level, but that sentence definitely looks like he clubbed "pashu" and "naari" in same category, not pashu-nari. The highlighting is done by you, not in the actual text. If he ment pashu-nari he should have used some basic grammer to remove confusion. He did not. At the level of text, it is indefensible. Also, if I go by your explanation, why only Naari who are pashu, why not Naras who are like pashus? There are more Naaras of Pashu nature than Naaris in the world. This explanation that you found looks more like a back engineering job to bail out. Regarding Rama self realization, I think I was unable to express the ideas of my friend clearly. Let me try again. He is not really saying that Sri Rama was not a self realized man. Infact he quite agrees that Sri Rama was an Avatar of God. What he says is that, (his opinion) God did not descend as Sri Rama in order to be worshipped. He descended in order to lead by example. That is why the text is called Rama+ayana. A path that an ordinary man can and should follow. One of principles. Compare this to the name of the other great epic, Mahabharata, which was not named "Krishna+ayana". One cannot follow Krishna's path. Whenever, according to him, we attribute Godhood to Sri Rama, our subcsious mind will create a blockage, a divide between the worshipper and the worshipped and thus make it impossible to lead a life like Rama did. BUt if we try to look at it like the story of a great king, a nobel man, a devoted husband etc, we have a better chance of following such a life. An ordinary man cannot lead the life of a God but he can follow the life of a great man. Similarly, even today lot of people advise that one should try to become like Vivekananda, or that this country needs its youth to be like Vivekanadas in teh future. It does not mean Vivekanada was not a self realized saint of highest calibre, but his life's image is like one who lived like a lion among sheep of ordinary men, fearless and uncompromising and principled. If every person would constantly think that Vivekanada was a saint who worked by the pwoer of a deity or due to his extreme spirituality or the blessing of a great guru, no one will ever make an attempt to be inspired by him or emulate his way of living.Vivekanada was a spiritual giant, but the image he projected was one of a tireless, fearless KarmaYogi. THAT can inspire people. On the other hand you will never hear anyone advising that one should try to lead a life like Ramarkishna. That is impossible. He was God incarnate leading a charmed life. Similar is the case with the Avatar called Sri Ramachandra incomparison to Sri Krishna. One can become Rama in actions but one can never become Krishna. Therefore, my friend believes, one should not consider Rama as a God to be worshipped, but as a model to be followed. Like Vivekanada. Hope I have put forth his idea clear. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Tue, 15/12/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) Date: Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 8:29 PM Dear Rajarshi, I some how did not read your point no.2. >Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or >something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text >because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on women. The actual poem is like this: || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes good sense atleast to me. About Lust in Tulasi das: It is well known that Tulasi Das was extremely attached to his wife so much that he won't allow her to go even at her parental home for a day. However he left the sansaara in a Flash. in a moment for ever. That is a great vairaagya. almost like Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of a village Man to define the true vairaagya. my 2 quick cent! Best Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Kishore and Utpal,>  > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/ theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. >  > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public.>  > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji.>  > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no". >  > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama.>  > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.>  > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. >  >  > Dear Utpal,>  > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great.>  > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. >  > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked.>  > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). >  > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. >  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu wrote:> > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > Date: Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM> > >  > > > > Namaste Rajarshi,> > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.> > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > -Kishore> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Laxmi Narayan,>  >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.>  >  > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.>  > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and> one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked> my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. >  > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.>  > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep.>  > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the> level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.>  > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country.>  > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc.>  > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him.>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote:> > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)> > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >  > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times> over, who is omnivorous.> > Hello Rajarshi,>                      I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??> > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.> > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.> > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.> > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???> > Kind Regards> LaxmiNarayan> > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Namaste Rajarshi,> Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.How about Vishnu the root of dasavatars? You rightly pointed out that there isn't much value in this theoretical debate. So, I'll stop here on this. -KishoreOn Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 3:19 AM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: Dear Kishore and Utpal, I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna? Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being. They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public. Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji. 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is " no " . 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama. 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks. The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. Dear Utpal, One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great. I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked. I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapu wrote: Kishore Chitrapu <chitrapuRe: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) Date: Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM Namaste Rajarshi,Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna? -Kishore On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Laxmi Narayan, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him. Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well. Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote " Hindu " . Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga. One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep. Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more. Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country. He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc. I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him. -Regards Rajarshi PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information. The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote: Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view) Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who seesKrishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many timesover, who is omnivorous.Hello Rajarshi, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him. In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals. Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly. This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness??? Kind RegardsLaxmiNarayan--- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi All, Just a thought of mine: To me, Lord Hanuman is the greatest Bhakta who attained whatever he has by devotion towards Rama as a God. Likewise there are somany like Bhakta Ramadas, Tulsi das and so many who have attained the spiritual heights in devotion of Rama as a God. I do not know the reasons why your frieds views are different, but to me it doesn't seems to be appropriate. Thanks KK --- On Wed, 12/16/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) Date: Wednesday, December 16, 2009, 12:37 AM Dear Utpal, I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on women. The actual poem is like this: || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes good sense atleast to me. I am no one to comment on an accepted saint like Sri Tulasidasji' s spiritual level, but that sentence definitely looks like he clubbed "pashu" and "naari" in same category, not pashu-nari. The highlighting is done by you, not in the actual text. If he ment pashu-nari he should have used some basic grammer to remove confusion. He did not. At the level of text, it is indefensible. Also, if I go by your explanation, why only Naari who are pashu, why not Naras who are like pashus? There are more Naaras of Pashu nature than Naaris in the world. This explanation that you found looks more like a back engineering job to bail out. Regarding Rama self realization, I think I was unable to express the ideas of my friend clearly. Let me try again. He is not really saying that Sri Rama was not a self realized man. Infact he quite agrees that Sri Rama was an Avatar of God. What he says is that, (his opinion) God did not descend as Sri Rama in order to be worshipped. He descended in order to lead by example. That is why the text is called Rama+ayana. A path that an ordinary man can and should follow. One of principles. Compare this to the name of the other great epic, Mahabharata, which was not named "Krishna+ayana" . One cannot follow Krishna's path. Whenever, according to him, we attribute Godhood to Sri Rama, our subcsious mind will create a blockage, a divide between the worshipper and the worshipped and thus make it impossible to lead a life like Rama did. BUt if we try to look at it like the story of a great king, a nobel man, a devoted husband etc, we have a better chance of following such a life. An ordinary man cannot lead the life of a God but he can follow the life of a great man. Similarly, even today lot of people advise that one should try to become like Vivekananda, or that this country needs its youth to be like Vivekanadas in teh future. It does not mean Vivekanada was not a self realized saint of highest calibre, but his life's image is like one who lived like a lion among sheep of ordinary men, fearless and uncompromising and principled. If every person would constantly think that Vivekanada was a saint who worked by the pwoer of a deity or due to his extreme spirituality or the blessing of a great guru, no one will ever make an attempt to be inspired by him or emulate his way of living.Vivekanada was a spiritual giant, but the image he projected was one of a tireless, fearless KarmaYogi. THAT can inspire people. On the other hand you will never hear anyone advising that one should try to lead a life like Ramarkishna. That is impossible. He was God incarnate leading a charmed life. Similar is the case with the Avatar called Sri Ramachandra incomparison to Sri Krishna. One can become Rama in actions but one can never become Krishna. Therefore, my friend believes, one should not consider Rama as a God to be worshipped, but as a model to be followed. Like Vivekanada. Hope I have put forth his idea clear. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Tue, 15/12/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@ > wrote: vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@ > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 8:29 PM Dear Rajarshi, I some how did not read your point no.2. >Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or >something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text >because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. I do not think that Saint like 'Tulasi Das' would ever be so hard on women. The actual poem is like this: || Dhol Ganwaar Shudra Pashu Naari, Yah sab Taadan ke adhikari || Some years back, i read an explanation that Tulasi Das ji meant "Pashu Naari" and NOT pashu and Naari. It means He feels appropriate to punish a Naari who is like pashu in her characteristics. That really makes good sense atleast to me. About Lust in Tulasi das: It is well known that Tulasi Das was extremely attached to his wife so much that he won't allow her to go even at her parental home for a day. However he left the sansaara in a Flash. in a moment for ever. That is a great vairaagya. almost like Sri Ramakrishna used to give the example of a village Man to define the true vairaagya. my 2 quick cent! Best Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@. ..> wrote:>> Dear Kishore and Utpal,>  > I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > Some months back I had a very lengthy, verbose and charged/heated debate with him on whether Sri Rama is God or not. Mind you, these are all theoritical/ theological debates - nothing to do with actual spirituality. Finally he stopped the debate because I was getting agitated and it would have affected our friendship. >  > Whenever his opinion is asked on anything, he will only mention that what he can support using logic. Therefore he never generally discusses spirituality with anyone per se. He will discuss and debate scriptures using exact quotations etc, (theology) but not about mysticism or sadhana or anything which needs a belief system. That is why most people know him only as a very rational, massively knowledgeable and uncorruptable human being.  They have no clue about his meditations or anything. He never projects himself as spiritual and generally would not discuss God in public.>  > Therefore our discussion was also on those aspects which can be proved or disproved theologically - 1) Is Rama a God as per Valmiki Ramayana 2) Is it wrong if people consider him as God .. 3) The merits of the Ramcharit Manas of Tulasidasji.>  > 1) To the first question, he believes the answer is "no". >  > 2) To the second question he says it cannot be debated from a spiritual point if it is right or wrong - but his personal opinion is that one should try to follow the way of life shown by Sri Rama rather than worshipping him. He said, Sri Rama had mastery of all divine weapons. He could have destroyed Ravana and his whole army in a blink of an eye, right from the place where he was located when he first heard the news of Sita's abduction, but Rama did not do so and instead chose the hard way of destroying Ravana - the human way. So as per my friend, it is more important to emulate Rama's ideas than to worship Rama.>  > 3) He considers the Ramcharit Manas, from a literary angle, a hodgepodge of langauges and styles ranging from Awadhi to BrajBhasa. An author's paradise (since many rules of composition has been flouted) but a critics nightmare. Also, there is a line in there which equates women with animals or something similar. He believes that was introduces in the text because Tulasidas had a problem controlling his own lust. Therefore, he ended up composing a sentence derogatory to women. Further, he argues that if Sri Rama is worshipped as God, then the purpose of his Avatarhood goes waste. Sri Rama was there to explain idea way of life. Krishna was there to be worshipped because Krishna was maximum ability of God on this plane. Nothing can be more God than Krishna was on this plane, so he thinks.>  > The above are merely his opinions, feel free to disagree. >  >  > Dear Utpal,>  > One request, if you can speak to him about his thought on Food habits, it'll be great.>  > I have been out of touch with him since August, been busy myself. But will ask him. However I don't know whether he will respond. Because as I explained above, he rarely discusses/debates anything from a purely spiritual angle. >  > It was only by chance that I found out one day about his meditations etc and then he confirmed them when asked.>  > I have seen him debating with Vegans - purely from a scientific point of view - about why there is no harm in having regulated amounts of meat (not red meat). >  > But I say, as Narasimha said, this person should not be taken as an ideal regarding food habits. Sachin can bat and score century even with a sore back, we will not be able to do it. His strength is his control of mind and his dedication to truth. >  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Tue, 15/12/09, Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu wrote:> > > Kishore Chitrapu chitrapu Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend)> > Date: Tuesday, 15 December, 2009, 3:54 AM> > >  > > > > Namaste Rajarshi,> > Thanks for painting such an portrait of this great person with your words.> > Spending 72 hours in meditation is act of no ordinary person. His other characteristics and experiences assert that he is a great person. I am troubled by one thing just like you are. It is understandable if he says Rama is an ideal man but hard to believe that such a great person claims Rama is not God. Tempted to ask him what really is the definition of God which differentiates Rama from Krishna?> > -Kishore> > > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 4:02 PM, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Laxmi Narayan,>  >  I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.>  >  > Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well.>  > Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and> one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked> my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. >  > So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga.>  > One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep.>  > Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the> level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more.>  > Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country.>  > He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc.>  > I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him.>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi> > > PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information.> > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk> wrote:> > > Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari@ .co. uk>> Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view)> > Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM> > >  > > > > > > I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees> Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times> over, who is omnivorous.> > Hello Rajarshi,>                      I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.> > In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??> > My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.> > Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? > > When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.> > This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.> > Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???> > Kind Regards> LaxmiNarayan> > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Dear Rajarshi, Thank you so much for writing such a detailed and prompt reply. You wrote it about 2-30 in the morning Indian time. That is the time to remain in bed and dream. Reading it I felt joy and then sadness and disappointment. Then the word Yog-brasht strongly came in to my mind. My own life is totally dominated by Tulsidas and his Eashtdevji and His Grace.I also turnoff when people start to say wrong things about Guru. Which sphere of Human relations are pain and trouble free?? .Parents, siblings, husband, wife, teachers, doctors, friends and so on. So if some so called spiritual guru cheats us, so what? It is like a accident. We try to avoid it but it happened. I was in a forum where a famous Indian man who teaches Surya yog started to say that you do not need a spiritual guru. I immediately left.I have a feeling that when his controllers will think that time is right, they will flick a switch and he will change. After all he was so vehemently atheist and when they needed him to change, he changed..Anyway it was very good to hear from you. and I just saw what your own guru said on telephone. Grace is flowing.Kind RegardsLaxmiNarayan--- On Mon, 14/12/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14Re: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (About my friend) Date: Monday, 14 December, 2009, 21:02 Dear Laxmi Narayan, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him. Yes he is a friend of mine. I can only tell you very little about his spiritual life, because he hardly ever shares it with anyone. He is married, lives in Delhi and has a son as well. Before I tell you anything more about his spiritual life that I know, let me say line or two about the nature of this friend of mine. I met him about two years back. What first attracted me to towards him was his impeccable honestly. I mean, he is a maniac when it comes to honestly. If someone were to put a gun to his head and ask him to just say a simple, harmless lie, like sun rises in the west, he would not say it. Therefore he never jokes with anyone too! He has actually never ever spoken even a single lie in his whole life, big or small. When he was in his school, once his teacher told him that Indian languages are richer than English, he believed his teacher. Later someone else told him English is more comprehensive language and the world cannot do with it. He got confused. Since that day, he bought himself two thick fat dictionaries, one English, one Hindi and for ten years every day he spend one hour reading the English dictionary and one hour reading the Hindi dictionary apart from reading up volumes of Hindi and English literature. When I asked him why, he just said it is because he wanted to be equally adept at both the languages so that one day he can take a really detached view to judge the truth about which is more comprehensive language! As I said, he has an uncompromising attitude when it comes to finding out the truth about anything. By education, he is a Phd is mathematics. He has worked in different fields, from banking to education to journalism. He did not last for long in most places. He speaks and writes fluently, English, Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, French. Now he is learning Tamil. He composes poetry in all the above languages. When he was in college, he considered himself an atheist. While applying for a job he had kept the place makered for religion as blank. When the clerk who was supposed to take the forms saw that blank space, he asked my friend's name. Hearing a Hindu name, the clerk wrote "Hindu". Seeing this, my friend snatched the form from the clerk and tore it up right there. Because, he considered himself an atheist and writing Hindu in the form would have been a lie. So this gives a basic idea of the man I am speaking of. All his friends, whoever knows him, calls him Rama of Kaliyuga. One day, long back, he was going to office for some urgent meeting. His way to office passed by a Krishna temple. As he was passing by in his scooter, suddenly he felt a strange urge to go into the temple. He says he still does not know why he went inside the temple, but he did. That was at 9 o clock in the morning. Next when he sees his watch it is 4:30 in the evening! And he has no knowledge of how the time went. When he asked the priest, the priest said that he went into the temple sat down and just stayed as he was for the whole time without any movement. The priest somehow felt scared to disturb him. But my friend had no idea why this happened. He remembered nothing, as if he was in deep sleep. Then he started meditating at home, and it was there that he got visions etc of Krishna. He does not say much about these, infact most people who know him also do not know these things. But once he was in samadhi for 72 hours, not moving from his meditation seat, in the exact same place and same position for 3 days continuously. Only his wife and close relatives know about this incident. I believe nowadays when ever he sits for meditation he often enters the state of Samadhi. When someone asked him how he felt during samadhi, he just said it feels as if the whole universe orginates from me. I am the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, the animals, men, women, children, the wind, the water, the space, smaller than the atom and bigger than everything. It cannot be accurately desribed. He considers Sri Krishna to be God and Lord Rama to be the ideal man.That is why he does not like the Ramacharit Manas because he thinks it elevated Sri Rama to the level of a God whereas the aim of the orginal Valmiki Ramayana was to show Sri Rama as an ideal man, not a God.The difference he says is that, an ideal man is someone who can be emulated, an ordinary man can and should aim to become like the ideal. But a God cannot be emulated by ordinary men. One cannot become Krishna, but one can try to lead his life like Rama. I have argued with him over this, but I am merely stating his idea. Also he does not have a Guru - a human guru at least, and advises people to not trust most Gurus these days. Needless to say, he is not an atheist any more. Later he had once mentioned he knew the relation he had with all the people around him in his past lives. His mother he says, was his daughter in his past life etc. Nowadays he spends a lot of time on different internet forums interacting with people, specially with those in the age group of 18 to 30, discussing anything and everything with them, from Indian politics to Indian history, religion, etc etc. His idea is to impart right knowledge to young people who will be the future of this country. He is am omnivorous person. Like any other Bengali, eats fish, meat etc. I shall refrain from mentioning his name because I had not asked his permission before mentioning him. -Regards Rajarshi PS: I would not like this mail to be considered as a part of the debate. This mail is just because Laxmi Narayan asked for information. The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Mon, 14/12/09, Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihari wrote: Laxmi Narayan <shrijishrihariRe: Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a vegetarian's point of view) Date: Monday, 14 December, 2009, 10:34 PM I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who seesKrishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many timesover, who is omnivorous.Hello Rajarshi, I was intrigued by above line in your mail and want to know more about this devotee. Do you know him as a friend and is he a Indian? What sort of path/sadhana is he following?? Is he a sannyasin or a householder ?Did specific changes happened in his life after he had these samadhi and visions.Any other special things about him.In the Gita Lord is saying whatever you do/eat offer it to me first. So he is offering all these non-veg to Lord with devotion, Right?? Then prasdam all around??My curious questions are not against your acceptance of his exexperienceut to learn more.After all he is part of hidden violence. Somebody is inflicting gruesome pain and misery on animals and birds on his behalf and he is consuming them and yet he is experiencing all these exotic visions, But no feeling of kindness towards birds and animals.Where did I go wrong? Simple dal/roti and do not even touch onion/garlic/ pepper but no such samadhi? When we get burnt, we need to be careful.Many years ago I saw in a book/article about Dayamata who succeded Paramhansa Yoganand. Once she went to India and told a Spiritual Master that her progress has stopped. Master said, you are eating eggs which she admitted that she was doing secretly.This is very complex world. No outright solutions for so many difficult questions. Followers of 3 faiths which all originated in middle east are fighting each other all the time. Sometimes I think, from which part of Spiritual Sky these energies are coming,Are they also enemies there?? Their Gods said in their holy books that animals are their food. So they cannot even think about souls in animals or their pain and emotions.Then I have read stories about several people, who follow these faiths and are non-veg and how they exexperience spiritual highs and other such phenomena. It is so difficult to comprehend. Would they remain in the cycle of b/d till they learn about kindness???Kind RegardsLaxmiNarayan--- On Sat, 12/12/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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