On the Vegetarianism Thread - How about Pt Gopi Krishna

December 14, 2009

Dear Narasimhaji,

In some cases, especially on the Kundalini-yoga path, it has been suggested that

eating meat is actually required to sustain the body at its current level of

spiritual development. The specific person I have in mind is Pandit Gopi Krishna

(http://www.om-guru.com/html/saints/gopi.html), the most well known person in

modern times to have raised his Kundalini, and documented it. In his book, it is

clearly indicated that at one point, he was virtually at the point of death and

was saved when he ate (probably several times - maybe even consistently after

that) some Kashmiri meat dish. I dont have the book in front of me, but he had

indicated that at that stage of development, he could barely eat a few spoonfuls

of rice and some milk (in the entire day), after which he was immediately

enveloped in some sort of searing pain related to Kundalini. But upon eating the

Kashmiri meat dish, the pain subsided, his appetite increased, and he was

quickly on the road to recovery. You might dismiss his level of spiritual

development, but if you simply read the link about his experiences, it might

make you think twice about that conclusion..

Separately, I have heard from some " enlightened " Buddhist types, who didnt know

anything about Gopi Krishna, also say the same thing.

I'm only throwing in this information into the mix - I havent formed a strong

opinion myself..

Regards,

Sundeep

, " pvr108 " <pvr108 wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I have been extremely busy at work for a while now and will continue to be,

working long hours everyday. I just saw a few mails from the vegetarianism

thread. Just a few quick points.

>

> * * *

>

> Self-identification of human beings and animals with body and body parts is

much much stronger and denser than that of plants and trees. Self-identification

of plants and trees is very subtle. When a leaf or flower or fruit is plucked or

cut off from a plant or tree, the emotion experienced by it is very subtle. On

the other hand, if a body part is cut off in an animal or a human being, the

emotion experienced is much stronger. Even after death, an animal may identify

with the body and think of it as " I " .

>

> The kaarmik debt formed by eating the flesh of an animal, which the animal's

mind considers as a part of " I " and is highly attached to, is much bigger than

the kaarmik debt formed by eating leaves, vegetables or fruits of a plant or a

tree or killing bacteria.

>

> As long as we live in a physical body, creation of new kaarmik debts is

inevitable. But we strive to minimize the debts we create newly.

>

> * * *

>

> You are what you eat. Our body and various chemicals and hormones in it are

formed based on what we eat.

>

> Meat is highly taamasik. Eating meat increases tamas in one. It increases ego

and identification with body and makes spiritual progress more difficult. After

all, if one is eating flesh of an animal that was highly attached to its body,

the quality of body attachment will become denser in one. This is not conducive

to spiritual progress.

>

> * * *

>

> It is possible that a spiritual giant from past ate meat and yet remained

fully saattwik. However, it is not easy to emulate such a person. One wanting to

overcome identification with the body and make spiritual progress, is better off

eating saattwik food (simple vegetables, fruits, greens, grains etc with mild

spices).

>

> If a meat-eating person stops eating meat and eats cooked vegetables, greens

and lentils/dals (for protein) for several months, while trying to read

spiritual literature and trying to make spiritual progress, one will see that it

makes a big difference.

>

> * * *

>

> Someone mentioned that Vyasa liked fish, Radha cooked deer for Krishna etc. In

matters like this, there is a lot of misguided propaganda in modern India.

Assertions not backed by specific quotes from classics or scriptures that can be

verified by scholars are best ignored.

>

> Swami Vivekananda and Aurobindo may have given a clarion call to Indians to be

more pro-active and energetic. But that does not require eating meat. It is

wrong to attribute to them support of meat eating.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

December 14, 2009

Namaste Sundeep, I can believe what Gopi Krishna experienced. When Kundalini awakens in someone who is not fully evolved, such things are possible during the evolution. I described one person's experience in the following mail as a reference: On Kundalini (Re: Re: Urdhwa-Retas)/message/1476 After the experience described in that article, that person experienced a lot of instability with his physical body. His hunger went away and he could not eat more than a few bites. He would feel full after a little milk or a few bites of rice. Jatharaagni became too low. He lost a lot of weight. Though he did not feel pain like Gopi Krishna did, he experienced the same symptom of low Jatharaagni. Eating meat, especially some kinds of meat, is supposed to stimulate

agni. However, is that necessary to sustain body and progress further? * * * Basically, when Kundalini awakens and rises, one's awareness of self is getting modified and refined. That can destabilize the equilibrium of the physical body until the self-awareness becomes perfectly purified. One is normally aware of the body as self. When one is suddenly exposed to true Self fully or partially and then brought back to normal body awareness, then one is in a tough situation. One is aware of the Truth (more deeply than what is possible through bookish knowledge) and yet stuck in illusion to a degree. One has to slowly negotiate layers of the illusion, overcome body awareness *fully* and realize true Self. That process can be tricky and it was, in the case of Gopi Krishna. Unfortunately, Gopi Krishna was probably not actively

guided by a good guru. The person in the above example was guided by a capable guru. He could have worried about the body and taken measures to increase jatharaagni. But he did not. He accepted that body is temporary and not worth thinking much about. He ate the few bites that the body could accept and then did not worry about how to increase appetite. He continued a busy modern lifestyle despite the very small food intake. Whenever he ate a little more by accident or by weakness, he suffered for a few days with digestive troubles, but he did not worry about it. Whenever body demanded attention, he ignored and tried to focus the mind on god and on his dharma. With that approach, he made a lot of progress very quickly. * * * Take the person of the example

in: /message/3143 All these problems like loss of appetite, lack of sleep etc are similar, in that they distract the mind from its path and force it to think about the body and do something about it. As one's self-awareness expands, these are tests that try to restrict it and see if one can realize Self fast or needs to slow down. ANY notion that "I am the body" or "I am doing this" or "I need to do this" acts as a seed and results in a tree with many branches, leaves, flowers and fruits, in no time. A single binding notion is enough to bind one in millions of chains in a split second. A yogi wanting to realize Self should not give scope to even a single binding notion. Self-realization is to realize god as the doer of All things, overcome those notions fully and engage in actions spontaneously without those notions. As one makes spiritual progress, one may be

placed in more and more difficult situations that provoke such notions in one. One can either remain steadfast in one's journey towards Self-realization or one can take small diversions and come back later. Different people pick different approaches and progress at different speeds and reach different points of realization. There is no single path. But each path takes its own time and may take to a slightly different place. I disagree that eating meat is necessary at certain stages of spiritual evolution. That was simply the path taken by some. There were many whose Kundalini reached Sahasrara without that. * * * If you are learning batting in cricket, it is a good idea to learn how to strike the ball with a straight bat. If you start playing cross-batted from the beginning, it is likely that you will not do well. Of

course, there may be someone like Virender Sehwag who hits cross-batted and yet accumulates centuries and double centuries. But he is a risky role model. One taking Tendulkar or Dravid as a role model is more likely to develop better technique and progress faster. If you need a score a six to win a match and a cross-batted shot is the only way, perhaps you can consider it. But do not plan cross-batted shots as your staple. More importantly, do not claim that one cannot score big runs without cross-batted shots. Best regards,Narasimha- Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,"Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a

difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings- --- On Mon, 12/14/09, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent Re: On the Vegetarianism Thread - How about Pt Gopi Krishna Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:53 PM

Dear Narasimhaji,

In some cases, especially on the Kundalini-yoga path, it has been suggested that eating meat is actually required to sustain the body at its current level of spiritual development. The specific person I have in mind is Pandit Gopi Krishna (http://www.om- guru.com/ html/saints/ gopi.html), the most well known person in modern times to have raised his Kundalini, and documented it. In his book, it is clearly indicated that at one point, he was virtually at the point of death and was saved when he ate (probably several times - maybe even consistently after that) some Kashmiri meat dish. I dont have the book in front of me, but he had indicated that at that stage of development, he could barely eat a few spoonfuls of rice and some milk (in the entire day), after which he was immediately enveloped in some sort of searing pain related to Kundalini. But upon eating the

Kashmiri meat dish, the pain subsided, his appetite increased, and he was quickly on the road to recovery. You might dismiss his level of spiritual development, but if you simply read the link about his experiences, it might make you think twice about that conclusion..

Separately, I have heard from some "enlightened" Buddhist types, who didnt know anything about Gopi Krishna, also say the same thing.

I'm only throwing in this information into the mix - I havent formed a strong opinion myself..

Regards,

Sundeep

, "pvr108" <pvr108 wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I have been extremely busy at work for a while now and will continue to be, working long hours everyday. I just saw a few mails from the vegetarianism thread. Just a few quick points.

>

> * * *

>

> Self-identification of human beings and animals with body and body parts is much much stronger and denser than that of plants and trees. Self-identification of plants and trees is very subtle. When a leaf or flower or fruit is plucked or cut off from a plant or tree, the emotion experienced by it is very subtle. On the other hand, if a body part is cut off in an animal or a human being, the emotion experienced is much stronger. Even after death, an animal may identify with the body and think of it as "I".

>

> The kaarmik debt formed by eating the flesh of an animal, which the animal's mind considers as a part of "I" and is highly attached to, is much bigger than the kaarmik debt formed by eating leaves, vegetables or fruits of a plant or a tree or killing bacteria.

>

> As long as we live in a physical body, creation of new kaarmik debts is inevitable. But we strive to minimize the debts we create newly.

>

> * * *

>

> You are what you eat. Our body and various chemicals and hormones in it are formed based on what we eat.

>

> Meat is highly taamasik. Eating meat increases tamas in one. It increases ego and identification with body and makes spiritual progress more difficult. After all, if one is eating flesh of an animal that was highly attached to its body, the quality of body attachment will become denser in one. This is not conducive to spiritual progress.

>

> * * *

>

> It is possible that a spiritual giant from past ate meat and yet remained fully saattwik. However, it is not easy to emulate such a person. One wanting to overcome identification with the body and make spiritual progress, is better off eating saattwik food (simple vegetables, fruits, greens, grains etc with mild spices).

>

> If a meat-eating person stops eating meat and eats cooked vegetables, greens and lentils/dals (for protein) for several months, while trying to read spiritual literature and trying to make spiritual progress, one will see that it makes a big difference.

>

> * * *

>

> Someone mentioned that Vyasa liked fish, Radha cooked deer for Krishna etc. In matters like this, there is a lot of misguided propaganda in modern India. Assertions not backed by specific quotes from classics or scriptures that can be verified by scholars are best ignored.

>

> Swami Vivekananda and Aurobindo may have given a clarion call to Indians to be more pro-active and energetic. But that does not require eating meat. It is wrong to attribute to them support of meat eating.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha