Guest guest Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Mahatma Gandhi was vegetarian and Sardar Vallabhbhai Zaverbhai Patel in particular was also vegetarian who was a Terror for Adversaries of India. We require 'Will Power' much much more than the power of physical muscles and by the way Veg. food does not make one weak and Tamasik rgds Utpal , Se Am <mahalaxmyey wrote: > > swami vivekanada found indians weak and not able to struggle against muslims and british > they were vegeterian and eating frugally > then indians were weak and full of tamas > so he induced them to eat meat and get some rajas > > > > > ________________________________ > vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak > > Sat, December 12, 2009 12:19:46 AM > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a non-vegetarian's point of view) > > > Dear Rajarshi, > Do not think that I'll be offended or misunderstand you to be a cruel hearted etc... > In this message, i am giving only what i feel right as per me and how i think about the whole issue myself. so pl. take that in consideration. > But to say that it is immoral or that one does not reach God if one consumes non-vegetarian food, is illogical, incorrect and pure bunkum. > In my previous message, i've clarified some points. i put it again below: > Please do not consider my point for Veg/Nonveg with perspective of > Spiritual/Material, Good/Bad, Saatwik/Taamsik etc... My only point in > Vegterianism is related to Compession against cruelty. Dharma (Non Violence) > against Adharama (Killing Innocent creatures). > *** > Anyway, my point is, I understand that it is good to eat totally vegetarian food when you engage in sadhana, specially things like havans, or else it conflicts with your system badly. > In my opinion, Saadhana or No Saadhana, if something is not correct will remain Incorrect. killing for filling stomach is if Not right then for me it'll remain *Not right in all conditions*. it is a different matter, if in future i succumb to challanging conditions and start eating meat but even then it'll not justify and make it proper thing. > *** > Dear Rajarshi, Now i hope you don't get offended by my message. i apologise in advance for my bluntness. > your second Para and some writings in your earlier message gives me impression that you are heavily philosophising. Karama, Desh/kaal etc... does not appeal me. to be very honest. > In my opinon, if one can justify eating popular meat of chicken, etc.. then anything under the Sun is eatable. with that logic, those people who choose to eat Crab, Snakes, insects, cocroaches are perfectly alright. even people who have started eating human flesh are also acceptable and not doing anything wrong as per the 'their' thinking. > To talk about Karma, Conditioning, Culture etc..., and try to make quality judgements by the logic of 'Direct killing' and 'eating meat of already dead' does not go well with me. it is just a philosophy to cover up. > Poeple born in Those cultures have become Vegetarian becuase they hate killing invloved. I gave an example of one such person and there are few more i know. howvever they are very very very rare. > *** > The above arguments are incorrect. I know some non-vegetarian people who provide such arguements, but these arguments are nonsensical and childish. Almost Zakir Naik style of arguments. > I agree completely. it is childish, Laughable and cruel jokes. Thats how i also take it when such people talk such nonsense. > *** > Lastly, i'll add a philospohical thought. If so much of killing every hourly basis, mostly for the sole purpose of *Craving* goes on in the world, and the prime mover is Human society, then how we hope to have a peacefull world without blood shed and massacare. unfailing law of Karma (Cause & effect) will find many ways to give it back to (in)Human societies. > Om Shaanti Shaanti Shaanti: > Warm Regards, > Utpal > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ..> wrote: > > > > Dear Utpal, > >  > > I hope you or others won't get offended by my mails. Please take them in the right vein. I am merely discussing. Now some points: > >  > >  > > But I have often feel that they are themselves are not convinced when they argue. they are 'hollow' arguments. However , I'll honestly say that i have no answers for 'life in a Plant'. > > > > When I used to eat non-vegetarian food many of my friends who were vegetarian people would give me a similar logic, as you mentioned in your first writing. My point is, as a non-vegetarian I am not claiming that I have any special sensitivity to plants, over animals. No. All I am saying is that, this logic that many vegetarian people provide to convince average non-veg people to quit eating non-veg, does not hold good. > >  > > I personally can not look at butchery shops where one finds hanging goats. its pathetic site. People in their excitements stand in queue to see the cutting of throat of a chicken and then take away that as parcel. The flash of so cruelly butchered Chicken or a Goat or a cow or pig, is so tasty for the humans that they just overlook the voice of their inner self. a fish which comes out of water is such a disturbing site. Panting for water (i don't have proper English word to describe the condition of a fish out of water). and then the dead fish thus is so tasty. > >  > >  > > I understand and appreciate you feelings, but I personally do not share them. Call me cruel hearted. > >  > > When the question of sensitivity comes in, there is no universal standard for such. It is moslty a case of conditioning. What one feels disgusted or pained about may not affect another. Same rule cannot be used to judge everyone. > >  > > Some of my non-vegetarian friends were watching discovery channel where they showed that people in some parts of the world eat insects. My friends seemed disgusted. I asked them, " Why? " . If you can eat a chicken or a fish, what is wrong if someone eats an insect. Just because one is born in a certain area in a certain culture in a certain set of value, one gets the believe that what one is not accustomed to must be incorrect. I told them if in a future life time they were to be born in that place, they would gladly keep eating insects without the slightest doubt in their mind. We humans are incorrigible product of our own conditions which in my opinion is all right. BUT the problem happens when we think our conditions are the only possible conditioning in the world, and therefore we wonder why don't others share similar ideas. That is incorrect. Nature has created the world diverse, and so it is. Everything is desh-kaal-patra. A person who is a > > vegetarian in this life, if he gets born in a place/culture/ family in a later lifetime which eats non-vegetarian food, he would not even bat an eye lid while eating the same. I know people who faint at the sight of blood, but there are doctors who do multiple operations daily. So my point is, personal sensitivity can be a very good reason for an individual, but it cannot be a universal logic applicable to all. > >  > > A far better angle of tackling this is the idea of karma. Even then, if someone can make sure he is not directly killing an animal, not selecting a live animal to be killed, but rather buys dead meat/fish/egg, the karma generated can be handled easily. Further, if someone (a non-vegetarian) does not want to deal in the raw flesh, he can buy some cooked non-vegetarian food. The amount of karma that you would get for it is quite acceptble IMO. It can be easily handled. It is similar to the one you would get for buying some simple daal which has come to the market through the hands of a middle man who has cheated the farmer, or God knows what else. There is karmic repurcussions in all food we eat in this age. It is unavoidable. There are some eggs - broiler eggs - which never hatch into eggs. They are designed to be eaten because they never grow into an animal. Alsmot like dead from birth. What karma does one get for consuming that? God knows. > >  > > An average non-vegetarian, at least in India, to be precise is actually an omnivorous. His staple diet consists of 80 percent vegetables/pulses etc and 20 percent non-veg. From a scientific point of view, this is a good combination. People who feed on more than 60 percent non-veg food in their staple diet, are prone to serious heath issues at a younger age. But this 80-20 veg/non-veg, is biologically good. > >  > >  > >  If we don't eat fish then sea will be full of fishes:), Earth will be full of chickens:0, Veg food will become unaffordable if everybody will become vegetarian :Etc...are more often than not, put up such arguments to defend however as i said earlier they are themselves not convinced. > > > > > > The above arguments are incorrect. I know some non-vegetarian people who provide such arguements, but these arguments are nonsensical and childish. Almost Zakir Naik style of arguments. > >  > > Anyway, my point is, I understand that it is good to eat totally vegetarian food when you engage in sadhana, specially things like havans, or else it conflicts with your system badly. > >  > > But to say that it is immoral or that one does not reach God if one consumes non-vegetarian food, is illogical, incorrect and pure bunkum.I know a devotee of Krishna - not just a devotee but one who sees Krishna during his meditations and have experienced samadhi many times over, who is omnivorous. For any average person, not engaging himself/herself in specific sadhanas, I see no harm in having an omnivorous diet with a 80/20 vegetarian/non- vegetarian combination. > >  > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Fri, 11/12/09, vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@ ... wrote: > > > > > > vedic_pathak vedic_pathak@ ... > > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg (From a non-vegetarian' s point of view) > > > > Friday, 11 December, 2009, 10:29 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Rajarshi, > > > > As you have said, Most of these are sure shot arguments from the people who eat Meat/fish. But I have often feel that they are themselves are not convinced when they argue. they are 'hollow' arguments. However , I'll honestly say that i have no answers for 'life in a Plant'. > > > > The people who argue such as': Most eat meat in the world, Egg is vegetarian, Plant also has life, One will not get required nourishments only with vegetarian food, If we don't eat fish then sea will be full of fishes:), Earth will be full of chickens:0, Veg food will become unaffordable if everybody will become vegetarian :Etc...are more often than not, put up such arguments to defend however as i said earlier they are themselves not convinced. > > > > Vegeterian people have their own arguments but all these are mere arguments. I personally can not look at butchery shops where one finds hanging goats. its pathetic site. People in their excitements stand in queue to see the cutting of throat of a chicken and then take away that as parcel. The flash of so cruelly butchered Chicken or a Goat or a cow or pig, is so tasty for the humans that they just overlook the voice of their inner self. a fish which comes out of water is such a disturbing site. Panting for water (i don't have proper English word to describe the condition of a fish out of water). and then the dead fish thus is so tasty. > > > > The bottom line is that " They cannot overcome " the cravings for the meat, fish and eggs. This is a naked reality. > > > > Dear Rajarshi, However i try, i am not convinced with arguments in favour of Nonveg food. Only at the cold places and deserts where survival was the main consideration, i can slightly agree but that too during ancient days. not now...Now everywhere Veg food is easily available. > > > > *** > > Few months back, a young girl from Germany came to work in my office for 6 months. once i casually asked her as to what she eats during lunch. what she said was not at all expected. she said that she is pure vegetarian and eats only Veg food since 3 years now and wants to continue that way whole life. As expected, i was very happy and i further asked the reason. The answer she gave so much happiness. She said that She does not want to kill to eat. Vow! I salute her from my heart. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Utpal > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Utpal, > > >  > > > I slightly disagree with your below mail. Without offence, let me state a few counter point for the sake of a discussion from a non-vegetarian' s point of view. You said: > > >  > > > ¡§I don¡¦t wish to stuff my stomach with the body parts of killed > > > creature. Would never think of troubling any leaving creature when > > > mother-nature has provided enough alternate food. > > >  > > > Even plants are living. The air we breath is living (organisms). Death is part and parcel of natural law. One cannot avoid it however much one tries. The Abrahamic religions are heavy on non-veg food. The areas where they grew, arid, desert land, you need to have (at least during those days) animal flesh to survive specially considreing irrigation options were so scanty. If you live in the Artic region, you need to have fish oil to survive the cold. The point is, death is a part of life. One does not survive without death. That is how the world has been designed by the grand designer. > > >  > > > What right I have, to snatch away even a single life in > > > the universe for my selfish reasons. I consider that as very very > > > cruel and that is the personal thinking why I am a vegetarian and not > > > strictly due to any religious or cultural reason¡¨ > > >  > > > What harm have plants done? Why not the same kind of feeling when it comes to plant life? They too are living beings, just like anything else! > > >  > > > What you consider selfish maybe a law of nature. > > >  > > > Please understand I am not advocating non-vegetarianism. But if someone is to do serious sadhana, no doubt vegetarian food is best. Otherwise, I am not sure if it makes in any difference at all. > > >  > > > -Regards > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/12/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@ ...> > > > Re: Veg Vs. Non-Veg > > > > > > Friday, 11 December, 2009, 7:36 PM > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namasrte SriRam, > > > Long back, i had posted the below message on this list. > > > I've put my argument in the message in which i firmly belive. > > > Its possible this may change the mind of your friend. > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 411 > > > The exact Argument is given again as under which is the extract from the above message: > > > [ > > > I couldn¡¦t hold back myself and honestly explained my > > > conclusive view point on the whole subject as follow > > > ¡§I don¡¦t wish to stuff my stomach with the body parts of killed > > > creature. Would never think of troubling any leaving creature when > > > mother-nature has provided enough alternate food. Just for the sake > > > of filling my stomach or satisfying cravings of my tongue, I won¡¦t be > > > responsible for killing innocent birds, animals, fishes directly or > > > indirectly. What right I have, to snatch away even a single life in > > > the universe for my selfish reasons. I consider that as very very > > > cruel and that is the personal thinking why I am a vegetarian and not > > > strictly due to any religious or cultural reason¡¨ > > > ] > > > Even if Shri Krishna has not mentioned a direct wording of Non-vegetarian food in Geeta, it is not right to take that excuse for slottering creatures. > > > I ask any body to think for him/her self in the light of what is right and what is not... > > > Best Regards, > > > Utpal > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > > > >  > > > > > > , Astro Seeker <astro.seeker@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a firm believer of Veg being satwik food and consider non-veg as hurdle to spiritual growth. But, a friend of mine who otherwise is trying to make some spiritual progress, is a non-vegetatian. In our arguments over non-veg food, he has put a counter argument. He says that if I can find him a single shloka on this in Bhagwat Geeta, he would give up. > > > > So, if anybody on this group can help me find the quote, it would be great. He considers Geeta as the absolute reference and believes if Lord Krishna has not spoken about it in Geeta, it is actually not worth discussing whether or not you take non-veg. If anyone finds it, le me know so that 1 guy on this earth can become vegetarian. > > > > He also quotes Sai Baba, Jesus and Mohammed Prophet adhering to non-veg. If any of you know the counter argument, please help. > > > > Best Regards,Sriram > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in.. com/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.