Seamless blend - To Narasimha, Siva and others !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Siva,

 

Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so this

is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

 

I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

 

***

Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and half

back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that person

on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used a word

'Veda' which interested me to go through.

 

I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations are

getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

 

***

As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never loose a

chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only 'respect'

the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of hearts that

every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people of other

religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a person who

wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right and don't

get in to such theatrics.

 

I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion are

there "

***

About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader. i've

some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i wish

to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

 

Siva wrote:

[

Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and doing

Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of some

miscreants.

]

 

I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3 days.

BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of Sanatan

Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

 

***

Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the World

religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect or

criticizing on their faiths.

 

I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian faith

who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty and

free from *converting attitudes*.

***

This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

 

I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i thought in

my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were arguing. i was

pained by their brain wash.

Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

 

will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE lord

but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is that of

Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the other one

is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

***

I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't judge

others and i will not feel bad .

***

 

I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

 

Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

 

Regards,

Utpal

 

 

 

, " schinnas " <schinnas wrote:

>

> Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at my

mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

>

> For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away from

the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

>

> Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something like: If

Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation in itself!

An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and more complete

victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the original to get

his exact words.. I read it long ago.

>

> Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

>

> Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

>

> Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and doing

sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several threats

from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or disrupting it

in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that sized

gathering.

>

> The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

>

> Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of some

miscreants.

>

> Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future head of

state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen. Sometimes he

attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his disciples such as

the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened Master living in

Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They operate from a

plane of consciousness that is much higher.

>

> As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding, we

can maintain a respectable silence about it.

>

> I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have said

everything I had to say.

>

> In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

>

> I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what do

say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

>

> Best regards,

> -Siva.

>

> , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Siva,

> >

> > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> >

> > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the debate?

> >

> > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in

> > > anything else.

> >

> > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> >

> > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> >

> > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> >

> > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > discussion.

> >

> > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without even

taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> >

> > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> >

> >

> > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > >

> > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth! To

him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to Realization

of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything else. He

answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner. Otherwise

he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were answered elaborately

by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year ago!

> > >

> > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > >

> > > ************

> > >

> > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > >

> > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and knowledge

later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of thousands

of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some simple

jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed for

those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > >

> > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence of a

living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if we

listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > >

> > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > >

> > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > Siva.

> > >

> > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > Â

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > Â

> > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage, he

does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > Â

> > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I have

stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for anyone

who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > Â

> > > > -Regards

> > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > >

> > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and

Gnana Yogas

> > > >

> > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Siva,

> > > >

> > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this to

the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters in

future!

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > >

> > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana Yogas

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > >

> > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > >

> > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti yoga,

Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing Sudarshan

Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and Sudarshan Kriya

are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing for meditation and

doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for rest of the day wit

the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya removes / breaks old

patterns and

> > > > >

> > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma Sadhana

sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya Namaskar)

taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > >

> > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan Kriya,

mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance courses,

Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing of

Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat Gita.

Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the above. His

commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly available

commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides daily study

of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is mandatory

for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > >

> > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to Guru

parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL satsangs.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder about

lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri Ravishankar

is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He is capable

of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without having to

be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I myself had

that experience twice), some in person and several via various other ways.

However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > >

> > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's largest

volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > >

> > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going without

any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in North East,

Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but love and

Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses seem to

follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no deserving

person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As a

volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand many

cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn inwards

and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As long as one

follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are happy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > Siva.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Siva,

 

These are my personal views and they maybe wrong and egoistic so i appeal of

forgiveness before:

 

If you think your GURU to be GOD know that for sure that HE IS GOD

and let not the view of the world shake your faith.

One more thing friend spirituality is not a subject of debate or discussion but

OF REALISATION as i feel.

You have taken your GURU or i think we take our GURU as a ladder to reach GOD'S

house.When you are climbing never look down to what others are saying.If you

want to hear and see from someone let that be ONLY and ONLY your GURU.Either you

will reach hell or you will reach heaven.But you will reach somewhere and will

not be stranded with those persons shouting below.

Wishing all the luck in your spiritual journey and may Lord Shiva guide you

through.

 

, " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote:

>

> Dear Siva,

>

> Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so

this is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

>

> I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

>

> ***

> Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and half

back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that person

on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used a word

'Veda' which interested me to go through.

>

> I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

> after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

> The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations

are getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

>

> ***

> As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never loose

a chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only

'respect' the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of

hearts that every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people

of other religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a

person who wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right

and don't get in to such theatrics.

>

> I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion are

there "

> ***

> About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader. i've

some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i wish

to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

>

> Siva wrote:

> [

> Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of some

miscreants.

> ]

>

> I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3 days.

BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of Sanatan

Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

>

> ***

> Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the World

religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect or

criticizing on their faiths.

>

> I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian

faith who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty

and free from *converting attitudes*.

> ***

> This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

>

> I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i thought

in my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were arguing. i

was pained by their brain wash.

> Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

>

> will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE

lord but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is

that of Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the

other one is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

> ***

> I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't

judge others and i will not feel bad .

> ***

>

> I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

>

> Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

>

> Regards,

> Utpal

>

>

>

> , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> > I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at

my mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

> >

> > For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away

from the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

> >

> > Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something like:

If Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation in

itself! An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and more

complete victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the

original to get his exact words.. I read it long ago.

> >

> > Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

> >

> > Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

> >

> > Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> >

> > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> >

> > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> >

> > Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future head

of state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen. Sometimes

he attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his disciples such

as the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened Master living in

Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They operate from a

plane of consciousness that is much higher.

> >

> > As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding, we

can maintain a respectable silence about it.

> >

> > I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have said

everything I had to say.

> >

> > In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

> >

> > I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what do

say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > -Siva.

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Siva,

> > >

> > > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> > >

> > > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the

debate?

> > >

> > > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in

> > > > anything else.

> > >

> > > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> > >

> > > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> > >

> > > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> > >

> > > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > > discussion.

> > >

> > > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without even

taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> > >

> > > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > >

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > > >

> > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth! To

him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to Realization

of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything else. He

answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner. Otherwise

he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were answered elaborately

by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year ago!

> > > >

> > > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > > >

> > > > ************

> > > >

> > > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > > >

> > > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and knowledge

later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of thousands

of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some simple

jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed for

those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > > >

> > > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence of

a living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if we

listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > > >

> > > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > Siva.

> > > >

> > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage, he

does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > > Â

> > > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I have

stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for anyone

who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > -Regards

> > > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and

Gnana Yogas

> > > > >

> > > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > >

> > > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this to

the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters in

future!

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > >

> > > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana Yogas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti yoga,

Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing Sudarshan

Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and Sudarshan Kriya

are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing for meditation and

doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for rest of the day wit

the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya removes / breaks old

patterns and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma Sadhana

sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya Namaskar)

taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan Kriya,

mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance courses,

Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing of

Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat Gita.

Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the above. His

commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly available

commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides daily study

of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is mandatory

for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to Guru

parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL satsangs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder about

lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri Ravishankar

is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He is capable

of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without having to

be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I myself had

that experience twice), some in person and several via various other ways.

However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's largest

volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going

without any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in

North East, Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but

love and Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses seem

to follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no

deserving person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As

a volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand

many cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn inwards

and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As long as one

follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are happy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > > Siva.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishnendu,

 

I beg pardon for my reply to your message addressed to Siva.

 

> One more thing friend spirituality is not a subject of debate or >discussion

but OF REALISATION as i feel.

 

It is not inappropriate to debate and discuss even in the matter of Spirituality

occasionally. Realization may be the final thing but on the way, the journey is

invariably subjected to many such things like intellectual debate, discussions,

various sadhanaas etc... Adi Shankaracharya and Swami Vivekananda, for instance,

debated a lot on the subject.

 

>If you want to hear and see from someone let that be ONLY and ONLY >your GURU.

 

That unshakable and blind faith without complete understanding of GURU's motives

or anybody or any book or anything is NO FAITH really but source of the mass

production of Fanatics. The real faith also needs to be earned after a lot of

struggle.

 

Swami Vivekananda has said in one of his works which means that in every sect,

immature Bhaktas are the real recruit which can be easily molded in to the

fanaticism.

 

I know one such Fanatic. He said that so and so person was saved in the Mumbai

Train Blast even when he was in the same train because he was a devotee of Art

of Living. The others died......

 

I know another fanatic who says that Krishna is the only supreme God and if

somebody is praying to Shiva, he is ignorant and fool. He must pray directly to

the supreme God and not the lesser Gods.....

 

Another class of Fanatics believes in total that all the others who don't

believe in Islam will go to hell....and same class in another faith believes

that Jesus is the ONLY savior.

 

And the Joke is that they are all so called Faithful (Actually it's an abuse to

the real meaning of Faith).

 

Best Regards,

 

Utpal

 

 

 

 

, " chaudhuri.krishnendu "

<krishnenduchdhr wrote:

>

> Dear Siva,

>

> These are my personal views and they maybe wrong and egoistic so i appeal of

forgiveness before:

>

> If you think your GURU to be GOD know that for sure that HE IS GOD

> and let not the view of the world shake your faith.

> One more thing friend spirituality is not a subject of debate or discussion

but OF REALISATION as i feel.

> You have taken your GURU or i think we take our GURU as a ladder to reach

GOD'S house.When you are climbing never look down to what others are saying.If

you want to hear and see from someone let that be ONLY and ONLY your GURU.Either

you will reach hell or you will reach heaven.But you will reach somewhere and

will not be stranded with those persons shouting below.

> Wishing all the luck in your spiritual journey and may Lord Shiva guide you

through.

>

> , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Siva,

> >

> > Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so

this is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

> >

> > I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

> >

> > ***

> > Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and

half back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that

person on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used

a word 'Veda' which interested me to go through.

> >

> > I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

> > after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

> > The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations

are getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

> >

> > ***

> > As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never

loose a chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only

'respect' the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of

hearts that every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people

of other religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a

person who wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right

and don't get in to such theatrics.

> >

> > I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion

are there "

> > ***

> > About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader.

i've some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i

wish to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

> >

> > Siva wrote:

> > [

> > Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > ]

> >

> > I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3

days. BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of

Sanatan Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

> >

> > ***

> > Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the

World religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect

or criticizing on their faiths.

> >

> > I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian

faith who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty

and free from *converting attitudes*.

> > ***

> > This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

> >

> > I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i

thought in my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were

arguing. i was pained by their brain wash.

> > Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

> >

> > will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE

lord but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is

that of Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the

other one is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

> > ***

> > I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't

judge others and i will not feel bad .

> > ***

> >

> > I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

> >

> > Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Utpal

> >

> >

> >

> > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> > > I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at

my mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

> > >

> > > For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away

from the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something

like: If Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation

in itself! An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and

more complete victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the

original to get his exact words.. I read it long ago.

> > >

> > > Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

> > >

> > > Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

> > >

> > > Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > >

> > > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > >

> > > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > >

> > > Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future

head of state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen.

Sometimes he attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his

disciples such as the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened

Master living in Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They

operate from a plane of consciousness that is much higher.

> > >

> > > As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding,

we can maintain a respectable silence about it.

> > >

> > > I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have

said everything I had to say.

> > >

> > > In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

> > >

> > > I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what

do say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > -Siva.

> > >

> > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Siva,

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> > > >

> > > > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the

debate?

> > > >

> > > > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested

in

> > > > > anything else.

> > > >

> > > > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> > > >

> > > > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> > > >

> > > > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> > > >

> > > > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > > > discussion.

> > > >

> > > > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without

even taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> > > >

> > > > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to

Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything

else. He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner.

Otherwise he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the

occasion may be. Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were

answered elaborately by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year

ago!

> > > > >

> > > > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > > > >

> > > > > ************

> > > > >

> > > > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and

knowledge later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of

thousands of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some

simple jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed

for those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence

of a living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if

we listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > > > >

> > > > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > Siva.

> > > > >

> > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage,

he does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I

have stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for

anyone who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > -Regards

> > > > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti

and Gnana Yogas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this

to the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters

in future!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana

Yogas

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti

yoga, Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing

Sudarshan Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and

Sudarshan Kriya are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing

for meditation and doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for

rest of the day wit the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya

removes / breaks old patterns and

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma

Sadhana sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya

Namaskar) taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan

Kriya, mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance

courses, Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing

of Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat

Gita. Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the

above. His commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly

available commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides

daily study of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is

mandatory for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to

Guru parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL

satsangs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder

about lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri

Ravishankar is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He

is capable of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without

having to be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I

myself had that experience twice), some in person and several via various other

ways. However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's

largest volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going

without any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in

North East, Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but

love and Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses

seem to follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no

deserving person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As

a volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand

many cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn

inwards and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As

long as one follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are

happy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > > > Siva.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri. Utpal,

I have said everything I got to say in my reply to Narasimha. I am one of

hundres of thousands of sadhaks in AOL. I do not have the means to contact him

personally and so cannot pass on your questions. I have had only very brief

moments of personal time with him.

 

If you _really_ want to know the answer to these questions you need to know him.

Then you will intuitively know the answers and the questions will disappear.

 

love,

-Siva.

 

, " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote:

>

> Dear Siva,

>

> Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so

this is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

>

> I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

>

> ***

> Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and half

back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that person

on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used a word

'Veda' which interested me to go through.

>

> I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

> after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

> The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations

are getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

>

> ***

> As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never loose

a chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only

'respect' the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of

hearts that every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people

of other religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a

person who wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right

and don't get in to such theatrics.

>

> I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion are

there "

> ***

> About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader. i've

some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i wish

to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

>

> Siva wrote:

> [

> Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of some

miscreants.

> ]

>

> I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3 days.

BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of Sanatan

Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

>

> ***

> Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the World

religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect or

criticizing on their faiths.

>

> I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian

faith who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty

and free from *converting attitudes*.

> ***

> This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

>

> I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i thought

in my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were arguing. i

was pained by their brain wash.

> Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

>

> will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE

lord but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is

that of Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the

other one is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

> ***

> I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't

judge others and i will not feel bad .

> ***

>

> I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

>

> Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

>

> Regards,

> Utpal

>

>

>

> , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> > I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at

my mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

> >

> > For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away

from the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

> >

> > Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something like:

If Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation in

itself! An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and more

complete victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the

original to get his exact words.. I read it long ago.

> >

> > Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

> >

> > Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

> >

> > Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> >

> > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> >

> > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> >

> > Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future head

of state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen. Sometimes

he attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his disciples such

as the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened Master living in

Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They operate from a

plane of consciousness that is much higher.

> >

> > As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding, we

can maintain a respectable silence about it.

> >

> > I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have said

everything I had to say.

> >

> > In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

> >

> > I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what do

say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > -Siva.

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Siva,

> > >

> > > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> > >

> > > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the

debate?

> > >

> > > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in

> > > > anything else.

> > >

> > > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> > >

> > > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> > >

> > > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> > >

> > > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > > discussion.

> > >

> > > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without even

taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> > >

> > > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > >

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > > >

> > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth! To

him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to Realization

of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything else. He

answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner. Otherwise

he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were answered elaborately

by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year ago!

> > > >

> > > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > > >

> > > > ************

> > > >

> > > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > > >

> > > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and knowledge

later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of thousands

of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some simple

jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed for

those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > > >

> > > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence of

a living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if we

listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > > >

> > > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > Siva.

> > > >

> > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage, he

does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > > Â

> > > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I have

stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for anyone

who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > > Â

> > > > > -Regards

> > > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and

Gnana Yogas

> > > > >

> > > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Â

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > >

> > > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this to

the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters in

future!

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > >

> > > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana Yogas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti yoga,

Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing Sudarshan

Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and Sudarshan Kriya

are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing for meditation and

doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for rest of the day wit

the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya removes / breaks old

patterns and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma Sadhana

sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya Namaskar)

taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan Kriya,

mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance courses,

Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing of

Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat Gita.

Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the above. His

commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly available

commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides daily study

of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is mandatory

for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to Guru

parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL satsangs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder about

lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri Ravishankar

is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He is capable

of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without having to

be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I myself had

that experience twice), some in person and several via various other ways.

However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's largest

volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going

without any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in

North East, Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but

love and Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses seem

to follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no

deserving person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As

a volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand

many cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn inwards

and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As long as one

follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are happy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > > Siva.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

I am grateful for your concern. My faith in Sri Sri is both blind and based

on my personal experiences. I am grateful to have an discussion with a sincere

sadhak and scholar like Shri Narasimha and other sadhaks on this thread.

 

The more I think about anything related to Sri Sri, the more chance I get to

contemplate on Guru and his tattva. For that I am grateful.

 

Love,

-Siva.

 

, " chaudhuri.krishnendu "

<krishnenduchdhr wrote:

>

> Dear Siva,

>

> These are my personal views and they maybe wrong and egoistic so i appeal of

forgiveness before:

>

> If you think your GURU to be GOD know that for sure that HE IS GOD

> and let not the view of the world shake your faith.

> One more thing friend spirituality is not a subject of debate or discussion

but OF REALISATION as i feel.

> You have taken your GURU or i think we take our GURU as a ladder to reach

GOD'S house.When you are climbing never look down to what others are saying.If

you want to hear and see from someone let that be ONLY and ONLY your GURU.Either

you will reach hell or you will reach heaven.But you will reach somewhere and

will not be stranded with those persons shouting below.

> Wishing all the luck in your spiritual journey and may Lord Shiva guide you

through.

>

> , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Siva,

> >

> > Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so

this is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

> >

> > I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

> >

> > ***

> > Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and

half back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that

person on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used

a word 'Veda' which interested me to go through.

> >

> > I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

> > after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

> > The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations

are getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

> >

> > ***

> > As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never

loose a chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only

'respect' the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of

hearts that every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people

of other religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a

person who wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right

and don't get in to such theatrics.

> >

> > I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion

are there "

> > ***

> > About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader.

i've some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i

wish to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

> >

> > Siva wrote:

> > [

> > Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > ]

> >

> > I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3

days. BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of

Sanatan Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

> >

> > ***

> > Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the

World religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect

or criticizing on their faiths.

> >

> > I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian

faith who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty

and free from *converting attitudes*.

> > ***

> > This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

> >

> > I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i

thought in my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were

arguing. i was pained by their brain wash.

> > Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

> >

> > will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE

lord but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is

that of Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the

other one is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

> > ***

> > I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't

judge others and i will not feel bad .

> > ***

> >

> > I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

> >

> > Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Utpal

> >

> >

> >

> > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> > > I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at

my mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

> > >

> > > For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away

from the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something

like: If Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation

in itself! An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and

more complete victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the

original to get his exact words.. I read it long ago.

> > >

> > > Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

> > >

> > > Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

> > >

> > > Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > >

> > > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > >

> > > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > >

> > > Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future

head of state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen.

Sometimes he attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his

disciples such as the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened

Master living in Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They

operate from a plane of consciousness that is much higher.

> > >

> > > As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding,

we can maintain a respectable silence about it.

> > >

> > > I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have

said everything I had to say.

> > >

> > > In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

> > >

> > > I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what

do say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > -Siva.

> > >

> > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Siva,

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> > > >

> > > > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the

debate?

> > > >

> > > > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested

in

> > > > > anything else.

> > > >

> > > > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> > > >

> > > > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> > > >

> > > > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> > > >

> > > > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > > > discussion.

> > > >

> > > > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without

even taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> > > >

> > > > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to

Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything

else. He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner.

Otherwise he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the

occasion may be. Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were

answered elaborately by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year

ago!

> > > > >

> > > > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > > > >

> > > > > ************

> > > > >

> > > > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and

knowledge later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of

thousands of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some

simple jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed

for those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence

of a living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if

we listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > > > >

> > > > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > Siva.

> > > > >

> > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage,

he does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I

have stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for

anyone who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > -Regards

> > > > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti

and Gnana Yogas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this

to the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters

in future!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana

Yogas

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti

yoga, Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing

Sudarshan Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and

Sudarshan Kriya are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing

for meditation and doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for

rest of the day wit the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya

removes / breaks old patterns and

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma

Sadhana sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya

Namaskar) taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan

Kriya, mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance

courses, Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing

of Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat

Gita. Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the

above. His commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly

available commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides

daily study of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is

mandatory for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to

Guru parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL

satsangs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder

about lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri

Ravishankar is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He

is capable of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without

having to be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I

myself had that experience twice), some in person and several via various other

ways. However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's

largest volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going

without any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in

North East, Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but

love and Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses

seem to follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no

deserving person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As

a volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand

many cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn

inwards and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As

long as one follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are

happy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > > > Siva.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Siva,

 

Regret if i've hurt you in any ways.

 

I was a person who was connected to AOL very actively during 2005-2006. and also

met sri sri in Bangalore during Advance course. My wife considers Sri Sri as her

Guru and i was a nimitta for that.

 

but you see...My Guru in this life was not to be Sainbaba or Sri Sri and i feel

that destiny did not allow me to stick to AOL. I never felt strongly to join

Ramakrishna Mission or Infact any mission. I've now started realizing little

after My Guru has entered in my life. slowly things are falling in place.

 

I wish you and every body else on this list, a very best luck on your spiritual

journey on this auspiscious moment when Magshirsha Purnima is just about to

start.

 

Warm Regards,

 

Utpal

 

 

 

 

 

, " schinnas " <schinnas wrote:

>

> Dear Shri. Utpal,

> I have said everything I got to say in my reply to Narasimha. I am one of

hundres of thousands of sadhaks in AOL. I do not have the means to contact him

personally and so cannot pass on your questions. I have had only very brief

moments of personal time with him.

>

> If you _really_ want to know the answer to these questions you need to know

him. Then you will intuitively know the answers and the questions will

disappear.

>

> love,

> -Siva.

>

> , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Siva,

> >

> > Narasimha's views are to Fight/debate/disagree/question without PASSION. so

this is an apt thread to do some progress in that attitude.

> >

> > I am sorry if you feel sad or insulting when Sri Sri is criticized but

understand that So many millions of Hindus would have felt the same feeling in

that debate. I personally admire Shivaji, Maharana Pratap and Sardar Patel and

have placed them to the highest of my ideals. Sardar Patel is the one for whom i

have same love and respect as Thakur Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda or

Narasimha. Why? Because all the 3 were the ideal statesman who did us proud not

only by effectively countering religious fanaticism but also BECAUSE THEY

OPERATED IN THE SPIRIT OF 'SARVA DHARMA SAMABHAVA'. BIGOTRY CAN NEVER BE

ATTACHED TO THEM. And for me this is fantastic and fitting to the ideals of

Sanatan Dharma.

> >

> > ***

> > Regarding Dr. Zakir Naik: I did not know about him initially. a year and

half back, i visited Oman and there once i switched on TV where in i saw that

person on 'Peace' Channel. He was lecturing in front of a gathering and he used

a word 'Veda' which interested me to go through.

> >

> > I don't remember the topic but i felt so much saddened by his lecture. The

reason was that he kept on attacking Veda/Hinduism and Christianity for proving

his points. Immediately in my mind came channels like 'Sanskaar' and 'Ashta'

where a lot of religious pundits (most of them are Hindus) come for discourses.

and i do not remember any instance where in they have attacked any religious

sentiments of other faiths to uphold values of Sanatan Dharma. there is such an

obvious contrast.

> > after that first lecture, i watched Zakir's other lectures and was convinced

that this person is not a true spiritual leader but a polished intellectual who

essentially is a fanatic and then never stopped to see him further. I remember

having a debate at the same site (at Oman) with a Young person of Islamic faith.

we debated on the issue and i frankly asked him to send Mr. Naik, an email,

asking him that does he really believe that other religions and faith are also

true. I must say that, i found that young Muslim engineer had much more

tolerance and understanding than Dr Zakir Naik.

> > The unfortunate part is that the broad minded people of today's generations

are getting corrupted by such fanatic leaders.

> >

> > ***

> > As i have many Muslim, Chrisitan Friends (Really good friends), i never

loose a chance to advocate my views - " The time has come when we must not only

'respect' the other religious faiths but also we must belive in our heart of

hearts that every faith/religion is true and we must never try to convert people

of other religion to our religion but on the contrary we must discourage a

person who wants to formally convert by telling him/her that yours is also right

and don't get in to such theatrics.

> >

> > I absolutely echo Thakur Ramakrsihna- : " as many are paths, as many opinion

are there "

> > ***

> > About Sri Sri, i must say that i believe him as a great spiritual leader.

i've some past experiences which makes me believe that. Now that is the reason i

wish to know his views on this particular debate episode. I know he has a great

knowledge and he also is a scholar but then why he did not counter Dr. Zakir?.

> >

> > Siva wrote:

> > [

> > Some clues - AOL silver jubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing Sudarshan Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > ]

> >

> > I was present in the Silver jubilee gathering in Bangalore for all the 3

days. BUT the logic of countering threat by loosing in debate on behalf of

Sanatan Dharma is very strange and Sri Sri must tell us what went wrong.

> >

> > ***

> > Why we admire Swami Vivekananda and feel proud whenever we remember the

World religious conference? He swept all and sundry without showing disrespect

or criticizing on their faiths.

> >

> > I sincerely wish to see such a Religious leader from Islamic and Christian

faith who stops to see the weaknesses in own faith and then debates with honesty

and free from *converting attitudes*.

> > ***

> > This is the reason; i have my reservations for ISCON's propagations. I had a

recent debate with few of the ISCON devotees and i ended up hurting them and

ironically we all had just finished " Damodar Pujan " on Tulasi vivaha day. Jay

Shri Krishna...

> >

> > I dont wish to give their views here. It sounded really foolish and i

thought in my mind that what rubbish and what passion with which they were

arguing. i was pained by their brain wash.

> > Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum...Is is my opinion that many people from Sanatana

dharma who *love* Krishna would have kept themselves far from this organization.

> >

> > will Lord krishna be angry with me? i dont care because i don't FEAR THE

lord but i love him. Infact one of the best pictures in my mind about lord is

that of Krishna (sky blue complexion) directing Arjuna on the Chariot and the

other one is of that Krishna washing the feet of his friend Sudama.

> > ***

> > I am sure my Guru will say that you concentrate on your saadhana and don't

judge others and i will not feel bad .

> > ***

> >

> > I wanted to write something and ended up writing many more things which was

probably not relevant to the thread.

> >

> > Sorry for this long and if you feel it was all rubbish, please forgive and

forget!!!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Utpal

> >

> >

> >

> > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri. Narasimha,

> > > I was giving an explanation from my understanding, but it was still at

my mental level. The actions of an englightened master established in Sahaja

Samadhi does not need to satisfy our mental concepts of how things should be.

> > >

> > > For example, when Sri Krishna - an Avatar of the highest order, ran away

from the battlefield when Jarasandh attacked Mathura instead of fighting and

defeating Jarasandh. Sri Krishna himself years later would advice Arjuna against

dropping arms in a fight. Can we give a satisfying intellectual answer to it if

people raise questions?

> > >

> > > Sri Aurobindo gave a beautiful explanation about it. It was something

like: If Krishna were constrained to win all times, that would be a limitation

in itself! An Avatar chooses even defeat if it is necessary for a larger and

more complete victory in the scheme of the lela. You ofcourse have to read the

original to get his exact words.. I read it long ago.

> > >

> > > Another instance that comes to mind - Some thieves came and beat up Ramana

Maharishi and made a big nuisance in his Ashram. Ramana Maharishi bore it with

equanimity. Sri Ramana was the Spiritual head of the Ashram and one can

intellectually argue that it was his dharma to protect the ashram and inmates

from the thieves.

> > >

> > > Besides, there were certain things that I did not want to put in an public

email.

> > >

> > > Some clues - AOL silverjubilee with over 2 million people meditating and

doing sudarhsn Kriya together happened around Feb 16, 2006. There were several

threats from certain militants from one community about planting bombs or

disrupting it in other ways police security provided was not sufficient for that

sized gathering.

> > >

> > > The concerned debate where lot of SIMI members were among the participants

happened few weeks earlier on Jan 21, 2006.

> > >

> > > Some people believe Sri Sri's presence in the event changed the heart of

some miscreants.

> > >

> > > Many does not know that Sri Sri had cancelled meetings with the future

head of state of a superpower few minutes before the meeting was to happen.

Sometimes he attends some events which cannot be explained logically by his

disciples such as the debate with Zakir Naik. The beauty about an enlightened

Master living in Sahaja Samadhi is that we cannot contain them in our mind. They

operate from a plane of consciousness that is much higher.

> > >

> > > As the Mother would say if something is beyond our mental understanding,

we can maintain a respectable silence about it.

> > >

> > > I do not expect my answers to satisfy all the questions. I feel I have

said everything I had to say.

> > >

> > > In hind sight, I realize that I should not have ventured to give an

intellectual explanation for something that I myself have not yet intellectually

understood.

> > >

> > > I did want to object to some statements saying Sri Sri did not know what

do say or was confused. It was a judgement of those without any knowledge or

understanding of Sri Sri, just as someone who does not understand Sri Krishna

might judge him differently for several of His acts which could not be

intellectually explained. Having observed him in person with questions several

times tricker than what Zakir Naik said, I can confidently say that it was not

true.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > -Siva.

> > >

> > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Siva,

> > > >

> > > > Respectfully, I want to offer a different perspective.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

> > > >

> > > > If he " never debates on Truth " , why did he agree to take part in the

debate?

> > > >

> > > > > To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way

> > > > > to Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested

in

> > > > > anything else.

> > > >

> > > > One can " show the way to Realization of Truth to those that are ready "

without accepting to take part in a debate like that!

> > > >

> > > > > He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart

> > > > > of the questioner. Otherwise he would say some polite words and

> > > > > let it pass, however big the occasion may be.

> > > >

> > > > If one answers only when there is " sincerity in the heart of the

questioner " , why would one then agree to debate a ruthless debater who is known

to not have " sincerity in the heart " and who only wants to ruthlessly destroy

the views of opponents? After all, opponent in a debate is different from a

" questioner " or a disciple seeking spiritual direction.

> > > >

> > > > > The topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in

> > > > > Hinduism and Islam " . IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING "

> > > > > an embodiment of the very thing that was supposedly the topic of

> > > > > discussion.

> > > >

> > > > If a yogi has such stature, one can do " justice to the topic " without

even taking part in the debate and just by being oneself.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > When people of little or no understanding were debating Truth/God and

misleading the world, great teachers in the past stepped in and directed the

debate in the right direction, whether it is rishis or recently Aadi

Shankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda. They had the knack of steering the debate

in a direction that they wanted - a direction that would help establish sanatana

dharma. They did not tolerate adharma and ignorance with " polite words " . They

destroyed adharma and ignorance with the sword of detached, and yet firm,

actions.

> > > >

> > > > Fighting with hatred or anger or agitation in the heart is bad. But,

fighting with a calm and equanimous mind is completely saattwik.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > >

> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > > Very good question. In fact, this is a question that was raised by

disciples of Sri Sri than those that dont know him. In fact, if one looks into

it, one will be dumbfounded! How is it that somebody like Sri Sri, who has

commented exhaustively on several scriptures, who is an authority on vedanta

both by his inner Realization and learning, who recited the Bhagavad Gita when

he was 4 years old without anybody teaching him, and who gives impromptu

discourses in various forums across the world on all topics under the sun shy

away from explaining some simple questions that are about his home turf?

> > > > >

> > > > > The answer is that Sri Sri did not debate. He never debates on Truth!

To him Truth / God is not an article of debate. He can show the way to

Realization of Truth to those that are ready. He is not interested in anything

else. He answers only when there is sincerity in the heart of the questioner.

Otherwise he would say some polite words and let it pass, however big the

occasion may be. Most of the questions that were raised in that meeting were

answered elaborately by Sri Sri in his various commentaries & discourses year

ago!

> > > > >

> > > > > One may ask why then did he go to this meeting or whatever it was? The

topic of the meeting was something like " Concept of God in Hinduism and Islam " .

IMHO, Sri Sri did justice to the topic by " BEING " an embodiment of the very

thing that was supposedly the topic of discussion. Those that were ready to

benefit from it from the audience would have benefited.

> > > > >

> > > > > ************

> > > > >

> > > > > The below part is not for Rajarshi but may be of interest to everyone,

especially those among us that are intellectually curious about spirituality

than practicing it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sri Sri always practices " experience first and explanation and

knowledge later " principle. Sometimes in AOL, there will be big congregation of

thousands of people and Sri Sri will only say very simple things or share some

simple jokes and laughs, but his presence would convey what needs to be conveyed

for those that are receptive. A Master may not be interested in getting 100,000

people trading one mental concept for another, but prefers one sincere person

opening up to Truth in silence. A Masters mere presence is enough for that to

happen. Words are secondary and optional. In spiritual discussions, the point

of words is to create inner silence or illumination and if that is not created,

there is no point in talking!

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a great privilege and an immense blessing to be in the presence

of a living Master whether it is Sri Sri or someone else. We gain immensely if

we listen to them from our Being instead of our mind. In Sri Ramakrishna's life,

there are innumerable examples of very simple people benefiting from his mere

looks & presence while big intellectuals would debate with him and miss the

opportunity of a lifetime. Sometimes when he countered insincere queries, Sri

Ramakrishna would feign ignorance and say what would I know - I am an

illiterate! What a disaster it would have been for a seeker if he were to label

Sri Ramakrishna as an illiterate and ignoramus!

> > > > >

> > > > > Without an accompanying experience (at least a small glimpse or even a

fragment of an experience) accumulating knowledge can be very dangerous as it

will become yet another mental concept and will actually be a hindrance to the

Sadhak. Some of the most subtle and dangerous hindrances for a sadhak are

created by none other than the sadhak's empty concepts of spirituality and God!

Things like lust, greed, anger, etc., stand out conspicuously and are in that

way less dangerous.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > Siva.

> > > > >

> > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nice mail. However I have one issue with Sri Ravishankar. Why did he

accept to debate the infamous Zakir Naik on Hinduism? Sri Sri Ravishankar maybe

an enlightened master but he just cannot debate. If you see the vedios of that

debate that happened a couple of years back, you will find Sri Ravishanker

utterly clueless on stage, not knowing what and how to counter the polemical

queries of the Zakir Naik.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > Now when Sri Sri choses to accept an offer to debate Naik on stage,

he does not go there merely in his own capacity but as a representative of the

religion - Hinduism. And when he fails miserably on stage, it becomes shameful

to watch for hindus. I mean, if you are not good with debating why did you even

take it up?Â

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > I am sorry if this mail sounds a little strong, but everything I

have stated here is a fact. The vedios are available for free on youtube, for

anyone who wants to see how that debate went.

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > > -Regards

> > > > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti

and Gnana Yogas

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Cc: schinnas@

> > > > > > Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 5:12 AM

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Â

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Siva,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You sent this mail to me instead of the list. I am forwarding this

to the list. Please feel free to write directly to the list on spiritual matters

in future!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:24 -0000

> > > > > > > " schinnas " <schinnas (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > > > - owner@ s.com

> > > > > > > AOL: Seamless blend of Raja, Karma, Bhakti and Gnana

Yogas

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > Namaskarams. I occasionally visit this forum. I happened to see

several emails about AOL and the below email from Shri. Narasimha.

> > > > > > > As a follower of AOL's spiritual practices and as a disciple and

devotee of Sri Sri Ravishankar, I want to clarify a few things to the extent of

my understanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There are several paths each leading to the destination of

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Some are ritualistic, some use austerities, some use devotion,

etc. AOL is a path, where the path to Bliss is also blissful. That does not make

it in any way inferior to paths of austerities. As Sri Aurobindo would call it,

it is a " Sunlit path " . In this path one does not suddenly emerge into

SatChitAnanda. The personality of the sadhak is transformed slowly and the

sadhak radiates more and more as they progress more and more.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In my experience, AOL is a seamless blend of Raja yoga, Bhakti

yoga, Karma yoga and Gnana yoga. Spritual practice in AOL is not just doing

Sudarshan Kriya everyday as it is commonly (mis)understood. Pranayams and

Sudarshan Kriya are done for cleansing and settling of the mind and preparing

for meditation and doing other spiritual practices of contemplation, Seva for

rest of the day wit the right attitude. Regular practice of Sudarshan Kriya

removes / breaks old patterns and

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > AOL includes some yoga asanas to prepare the body (the Padma

Sadhana sequence of asanas taught in DSN course and Sun Salutations (Surya

Namaskar) taught in Part II or advance courses fall under this category.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The raja yoga practices include all the pranayams, Sudarshan

Kriya, mudras, bandhas, meditations taught in Art of Living course, advance

courses, Sahaj samadhi meditation course, etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Knowledge part includes deep contemplative study and imbibing

of Narada Bhakti Sutras, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Ashtavakra Gita and Bhagavat

Gita. Sri Sri Ravishankar has given very elaborate commentary on all of the

above. His commentary on Bhakti Sutras runs to 30 or so tapes and the publicly

available commentary on Ashtavakra gita runs to over 33 DVD episodes! Besides

daily study of Yoga Vashishtam is highly

> > > > > > > recommended. Learning and contemplation of this Wisdom is

mandatory for those that strive to become Art of Living teachers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The path of AOL emphasises on Surrender and Seva. Guru puja to

Guru parampara, nama sankeertan and bhajans are a standard feature of AOL

satsangs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some wonder why AOL charges for these courses and some wonder

about lack of a Sadhguru at every stage.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Let me clarify from my personal experiences that Sri Sri

Ravishankar is a fully Enlightened Master living in Sahaj Samadhi all times. He

is capable of guiding millions of devotees in every step of the sadhana without

having to be near them in person. Several get necessary guidance in dreams (I

myself had that experience twice), some in person and several via various other

ways. However, to get these guidance, an inner connection with the Master is

essential. Until that stage, the various AOL courses, Sri Sri's elaborate and

in-depth commentaries on various Knowledge are more than enough to guide

disciples to a stage where conscious inner communion with Guru can be

established.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Several of the senior AOL teachers (mostly Swamis and Rishis) are

yogis of a very high order capable of reaching SatChitAnanda consciousness at

will during meditation. They may be not fully established in it like Sri Sri,

but act as channels of the SatGuru and can appropriate guide a Sadhak as and

when needed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is very easy to accept those that left their body as having

achieved highest realization such as Sri Aurobindo or Sri Ramakrishna or Ramana

Maharishi. However it is a human tendency to doubt them when they are in

physical form.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding AOL charging money for its courses: AOL is world's

largest volunteer run organization. Neither AOL teachers nor its founder Sri Sri

Ravishankar make monitory profits. All the proceeds go to the charitable

activities again run by volunteers. Many of the full time teachers have given up

veyr lucrative careers and millions worth in property to become teachers and

teach for free. Sri Sri Ravishankar neither needs all the money. All senior AOL

teachers including Sri Sri have went through very bad and sometimes even

dangerous conditions to bring the Knowledge to the masses. This is a time when

the highest Knowledge needs to be revealed to maximum number of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Senior AOL teachers have faced danger to their lives by going

without any help or guidance to areas infested with naxalites, terrorists in

North East, Kashmir, Iraq, Palestine, Pakitan, Sri Lanka, etc. with nothing but

love and Divine Grace as their aid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as I know, money is charged in AOL courses for two reasons.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Past experience showed that those that paid for the courses

seem to follow the practices more diligently. It is Sri Sri's guidance that no

deserving person should be denied a course because they cannot afford to pay. As

a volunteer, I was part of organizing several AOL courses and know first hand

many cases where people took courses for free and were also provided free

accommodation, etc. Whenever natural disaster strikes, AOL teachers go there

paying from their own pocket or by AOL and teach courses for free and provide

healing to the victims. AOL does not advertise it or make a show of it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) This is my understanding and not AOl position. It removes the

Karmic debt to the AOL teachers and volunteers who still may have some doership

in them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Finally, Sri Sri is only interested in getting everyone turn

inwards and express the love, joy and compassion that is inside everyone. As

long as one follows a path, any path and surrenders to any Sat Guru, we are

happy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jai Gurudev!

> > > > > > > Siva.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>