Guest guest Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Utpal, Namaste. A kind request - please avoid addressing me with " ji " . I am young in age and experience to be addressed with a ji. First let me correct myself. On a second look, my words were not accurate. Supramental transformation is not purely a spiritual state to be attained. It is an _integral_ state of being where matter / physical reality is transformed to be undistorted expression of the highest consciousness. In that sense, it is not a higher spiritual attainment, but a higher _integral_ attainment, where the constantly changing relative reality of matter and material existence is transformed and the divide between matter and spirit abolished. Spiritually, one can argue that there is no higher spiritual attainment than attaining / merging with Sat-Chit-Ananda consciousness which is accomplished in Nirvikalpa / Sahaja samadhis. To go further into this topic, we have to touch upon the reality of evolution (not just the bodily evolution) but evolution of consciousness in matter into more and more conscious forms. While all Avatara purushas come down from the same source (in a manner of speaking) and the Force behind them is the same, each one comes down for a specific Mission appropriate for that age and collective consciousness of earth. For supramental transformation to be accomplished by human beings their various parts of the being such as mind, intellect, nervous system, etc, had to evolve to a certain stage and collective human consciousness had to take a giant leap. All the work of past Avatars were towards achieving some of this in some way or other. There is no comparison between Avatars. When we talk about an event yet to happen, we say it is not yet realized on earth. That does not invalidate all the Giants of the past. I am sure my explanation has many holes. If you are really interested in this topic, you need to go to the source and read all the masterpieces of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. His masterpiece, Life Divine is an excellent scripture to understand this. (Yes, I used the word scripture to describe it, not at all in a casual manner though). Jai Gurudev! -Siva. , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote: > > Jai Guudev Siva ji, > > >Sri Aurobindo and the Mother maintained that while not yet achieved >on earth, it is still possible to reach a stage beyond even Sahaja >Samadhi.. > > This is extremely perplexing. > > *THERE is a stage in spiritual realm which is not yet achieved on Earth. It means that Rama, Krishna, Ramakrishna, Mahavatara Babaji, Raman Maharashi, vivekananda, Gnyaneshwar, Adi Shankaracharya... also could not achieve THAT state. > > *Stage beyond sahaj samadhi... > > would you please elaborate on the above when you find time. i am really eager to know of this. > > Best Regards, > > Utpal > > , " schinnas " <schinnas@> wrote: > > > > Very well said. > > > > Those that are in Sahaja Samadhi are embodiment of God in human form and are Avatara purushas. They can be worshiped directly as we worship God. > > > > Below link is what Ramana Maharishi (one who was established in Sahaja Samadhi himself) had to say about this. > > > > http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Enlightenment/Ramana_Samadhi.htm > > > > Sri Aurobindo and the Mother maintained that while not yet achieved on earth, it is still possible to reach a stage beyond even Sahaja Samadhi. That is maintained as Supramental transformation, where not just the consciousness is established at once in both the Absolute and the relative but all other grosser levels of existences including the body " transform " and become direct manifestation of the absolute without any distortions as is currently the case. People took some of his words on physical transformation or bodily immortality out of context and misrepresented this as Sri Aurobindo wanting physical immortality in the ordinary sense of the term, etc. > > > > Anyways, all of this is mental concepts to me right now, and I will sign off this thread. > > > > Regards, > > -Siva. > > > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Hari, > > > > > > Samaadhi is sam+aa+dhi. It is a state of intense mental concentration on something. > > > > > > Kalpa means create or perceive (the word kalpana is from the same root). Vikalpa means existence of variety. Savikalpa means " with vikalpa " . Savikalpa samadhi is a state of intense concentration of the mind, while creational variety or objectification still exists in the mind. One perceives that there is an " I " and there are " other " objects (e.g. deities, demons, people etc). But one is able to focus the mind intensely on one object (e.g. a deity) and able to achieve oneness with that object. Even reaching savikalpa samadhi is a tremendous thing and many great yogis also cannot go beyond savikalpa samadhi. > > > > > > In nirvikalpa samadhi, the creational variety and objectification ceases (nirvikalpa=nir+vikalpa, nir=devoid of). Mind reaches a state where there is no perception of I and " other " objects. One's consciousness is absorbed in supreme consciousness (Brahman or Aatman), without any perception of a variety of objects. This state is reached by very very few yogis. > > > > > > Sahaja samadhi is a state where the mind is *simultaneously* perceiving a variety of objects *and* absorbed in the supreme consciousness! > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > When one is normally perceiving a variety objects, one's mind is absorbed in an *individualized* consciousness that is colored with the conditioning of that individual's experiences over various lives. When one sees a beautiful person, one's mind may get certain thoughts (depending on the experiences, values and desires accumulated from many lives). When somebody is praising one, one's mind may get certain thoughts. When somebody is criticizing one, one's mind may get certain thoughts. And so on. One's mind has likes, dislikes, attractions, repulsions etc, based on the accumulated experiences, values and desires of that individualized consciousness. > > > > > > In sahaja samadhi, one has no individualized consciousness and one's mind is absorbed in the infinite supreme consciousness that is not colored by the experiences and conditioning of a single individual. One is actively living in the material world; one's mind is perceiving various objects of various attributes through jnanendriyas; and, one's mind is engaging in various actions in the material world though karmendriyas. Yet, one has no individualized conditioning or I-ness. > > > > > > Very very very few beings, mostly re-incarnations of rishis and gods, can reach that state. For most others, that state is not really a possibility. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > I gave an analogy earlier to explain various aspects of consciousness, using parts of a computer. > > > > > > ahamkaara (I-ness) - CPU > > > chitta (conditioning) - DRAM > > > buddhi - ALU or logic coprocessor > > > manas - I/O controller > > > jnanendriyas - input channels > > > karmendriyas - output channels > > > praanas - on-board power supply > > > deha (body) - mechanical parts, chassis etc > > > > > > Normally, CPU is running a complex program where a lot of input channels and output channels are active. DRAM has a lot of stored data and CPU is refreshing it frequently. ALU is running several algorithms based on stored data and a lot of I/O data gets stored/retrieved from DRAM all the time. This is analogous to a person's normal state. > > > > > > Nirvikalpa samadhi is like a state where the computer is in a power standby. On-board power supply is hardly supplying any power, all input and output channels are turned off, I/O controller is turned off and ALU is not running any algorithms. If a computer goes into power standy and exits it quickly, it will resume what it was doing before. Similarly, a person reaching nirvikalpa samadhi and leaving it quickly will resume previous activities. If a computer stays in the power standby for too long, it will be turned off and its state may be lost, i.e. it cannot resume. If one stays in nirvikalpa samadhi for too long, one will simply merge in Brahman and cannot resume previous activities. > > > > > > Sahaja samadhi is akin to a computer running a bare minimum program that accesses a program running on a central super computer on a network. CPU, ALU, memory etc are running on a central super computer and our individual computer's CPU simply has a small routine that accesses the results of the algorithm running on the super computer and controls the local I/O controller accordingly. There isn't much data stored locally and there is no algorithm running locally. One's praanas are supplying power, one's jnanendriyas are getting inputs and one's karmendriyas are engaging in actions, one's manas is controlling this Input/Ouput activity and ahamkara (CPU) is controlling all this by running a small program that accesses a super computer that is monitoring all the computers of the world and deciding what this computer should do. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > As I said, very very very few beings can reach sahaja samadhi and it is beyond the reach of even the greatest yogis. As I said, most yogis cannot even reach nirvikalpa samadhi. Some reach nirvikalpa samadhi, come back to regular consciousness after a while and start to accumulate conditioning again (chitta, i.e. DRAM). The CPU is running some program or the other, however small, and accumulating more data in DRAM and building up an algorithm in ALU. Minimization of I-ness is possible, but elimination of I-ness while embodied is very difficult! If any limited I-ness is left and any conditioning (I am this, I need this, I like this etc) is left, then it is NOT sahaja samadhi. Sahaja samadhi is a lack of limited individual I-ness and connecting the supreme universal I-ness directly to one's mind and body. > > > > > > I cannot make judgments on individual claims, as it is none of my business. I will take on individuals only when they interfere with my dharma and my sense of dharma dictates that I should take them on. > > > > > > But the bottomline is that sahaja samadhi state is no joke and only yogis of an absolutely tremendous caliber reach it. Those who reach this state are like the god - supreme cosmic being - himself. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Let me give another analogy. This life is like a long dream. Saviklapa samadhi is like wakig up *within* the dream. Nirvikalpa samadhi is like waking up from the dream. Sahaja samadhi is like being in the dream and yet being awake. > > > > > > This may confuse people, but this analogy shows how complex and difficult sahaja samadhi is. The previous computer analogy highlights how things work in a sahaja samadhi, but does not show why and how difficult it is. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > > Spirituality: > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, namaste and pranaams > > > > > > > > What is sahaja samadhi and how is it different from nirvikalpa samadhi? > > > > > > > > best regards > > > > Hari > > > > > > > > > Sri Sri Ravishankar is a fully Enlightened Master living in > > > > > Sahaj Samadhi all times. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 This life is like a long dream. Saviklapa samadhi is like waking up *within* the dream. Nirvikalpa samadhi is like waking up from the dream. Sahaja samadhi is like being in the dream and yet being awake.Hello, These states seem to be due to Nirgun Brahman. Personally I believe there are other states of similar nature due to Sagun Brahman. And there is Deep Grace and Love and Beauty and Fragrance to name a few, are involved here. It is difficult for me to give them any name so I will describe them in brief.When Divine Father appears in a normal waking state and physical eyes perceive Him, one goes in to a mindless bewilderment of astonishment and deep happiness.When Divine Mother appears and the Light from Her Aura has penetrated ones head /skull, senses become totally numb. Yet one is fully awake with physical. eyes open. If She would allow more Light, one would faint but She stops it before it happens.And these states can not be easily describe in words although there are subject and object. Nirverkalpa cannot be described. I do not know how savikalpa or sahaja feels like, so I cannot compare them.Is it sill a dream?? Yes, because one is somehow going about his daily business as usual. Pain and arguments and other tension of life.Is it still a dream?? No, because certain things have changed completely. DivineBeloveds and their Bliss are EverPresent.Some lucky person from this group went to several Temples in Assam and Calcutta recently. Notice the bliss and joy flowing from her letter. How much happy she felt at Temples when she was in presence of Divine Mother.This blissful state is nothing less than a samadhi.Afterall Divine Mother is Sagun Brahman.I do not know her.Otherwise I could have sent her a cheque for some money for purchase of fresh Dhoop and asked her to light them at temples which she visited for this group. Most of people here are walking consciousely on spiritual path. As the fragrance would have reached Mother , Her shimmering grace could have filled us with Her Love. Thanks,LaxmiNarayan--- On Fri, 6/11/09, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:Narasimha PVR Rao <pvrRe: On Sahaja Samadhi (Re: AOL: Seamless blend...) Cc: "Kishore Chitrapu" <chitrapuFriday, 6 November, 2009, 18:40<*> To change settings online go to: /join ( ID required)<*> To change settings via email: -digest -fullfeatured <*> To from this group, send an email to: - <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Utpal, Even Vasishtha says there is a state beyond sahaja samadhi in Yoga Vaasishtham, but does not describe it. However, he does not say that it cannot be achieved on earth. Bhava samadhi, savikalpa samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi etc can be intellectually understood and appreciated even without experiencing them. But other samadhis cannot be understood intellectually. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak Saturday, November 07, 2009 12:59 AM On Sahaja Samadhi (Re: AOL: Seamless blend...) > Jai Guudev Siva ji, > >>Sri Aurobindo and the Mother maintained that while not yet achieved >on >>earth, it is still possible to reach a stage beyond even Sahaja >Samadhi.. > > This is extremely perplexing. > > *THERE is a stage in spiritual realm which is not yet achieved on Earth. > It means that Rama, Krishna, Ramakrishna, Mahavatara Babaji, Raman > Maharashi, vivekananda, Gnyaneshwar, Adi Shankaracharya... also could not > achieve THAT state. > > *Stage beyond sahaj samadhi... > > would you please elaborate on the above when you find time. i am really > eager to know of this. > > Best Regards, > > Utpal > > , " schinnas " <schinnas wrote: >> >> Very well said. >> >> Those that are in Sahaja Samadhi are embodiment of God in human form and >> are Avatara purushas. They can be worshiped directly as we worship God. >> >> Below link is what Ramana Maharishi (one who was established in Sahaja >> Samadhi himself) had to say about this. >> >> http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Enlightenment/Ramana_Samadhi.htm >> >> Sri Aurobindo and the Mother maintained that while not yet achieved on >> earth, it is still possible to reach a stage beyond even Sahaja Samadhi. >> That is maintained as Supramental transformation, where not just the >> consciousness is established at once in both the Absolute and the >> relative but all other grosser levels of existences including the body >> " transform " and become direct manifestation of the absolute without any >> distortions as is currently the case. People took some of his words on >> physical transformation or bodily immortality out of context and >> misrepresented this as Sri Aurobindo wanting physical immortality in the >> ordinary sense of the term, etc. >> >> Anyways, all of this is mental concepts to me right now, and I will sign >> off this thread. >> >> Regards, >> -Siva. >> >> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: >> > >> > Namaste Hari, >> > >> > Samaadhi is sam+aa+dhi. It is a state of intense mental concentration >> > on something. >> > >> > Kalpa means create or perceive (the word kalpana is from the same >> > root). Vikalpa means existence of variety. Savikalpa means " with >> > vikalpa " . Savikalpa samadhi is a state of intense concentration of the >> > mind, while creational variety or objectification still exists in the >> > mind. One perceives that there is an " I " and there are " other " objects >> > (e.g. deities, demons, people etc). But one is able to focus the mind >> > intensely on one object (e.g. a deity) and able to achieve oneness with >> > that object. Even reaching savikalpa samadhi is a tremendous thing and >> > many great yogis also cannot go beyond savikalpa samadhi. >> > >> > In nirvikalpa samadhi, the creational variety and objectification >> > ceases (nirvikalpa=nir+vikalpa, nir=devoid of). Mind reaches a state >> > where there is no perception of I and " other " objects. One's >> > consciousness is absorbed in supreme consciousness (Brahman or Aatman), >> > without any perception of a variety of objects. This state is reached >> > by very very few yogis. >> > >> > Sahaja samadhi is a state where the mind is *simultaneously* perceiving >> > a variety of objects *and* absorbed in the supreme consciousness! >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > When one is normally perceiving a variety objects, one's mind is >> > absorbed in an *individualized* consciousness that is colored with the >> > conditioning of that individual's experiences over various lives. When >> > one sees a beautiful person, one's mind may get certain thoughts >> > (depending on the experiences, values and desires accumulated from many >> > lives). When somebody is praising one, one's mind may get certain >> > thoughts. When somebody is criticizing one, one's mind may get certain >> > thoughts. And so on. One's mind has likes, dislikes, attractions, >> > repulsions etc, based on the accumulated experiences, values and >> > desires of that individualized consciousness. >> > >> > In sahaja samadhi, one has no individualized consciousness and one's >> > mind is absorbed in the infinite supreme consciousness that is not >> > colored by the experiences and conditioning of a single individual. One >> > is actively living in the material world; one's mind is perceiving >> > various objects of various attributes through jnanendriyas; and, one's >> > mind is engaging in various actions in the material world though >> > karmendriyas. Yet, one has no individualized conditioning or I-ness. >> > >> > Very very very few beings, mostly re-incarnations of rishis and gods, >> > can reach that state. For most others, that state is not really a >> > possibility. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > I gave an analogy earlier to explain various aspects of consciousness, >> > using parts of a computer. >> > >> > ahamkaara (I-ness) - CPU >> > chitta (conditioning) - DRAM >> > buddhi - ALU or logic coprocessor >> > manas - I/O controller >> > jnanendriyas - input channels >> > karmendriyas - output channels >> > praanas - on-board power supply >> > deha (body) - mechanical parts, chassis etc >> > >> > Normally, CPU is running a complex program where a lot of input >> > channels and output channels are active. DRAM has a lot of stored data >> > and CPU is refreshing it frequently. ALU is running several algorithms >> > based on stored data and a lot of I/O data gets stored/retrieved from >> > DRAM all the time. This is analogous to a person's normal state. >> > >> > Nirvikalpa samadhi is like a state where the computer is in a power >> > standby. On-board power supply is hardly supplying any power, all input >> > and output channels are turned off, I/O controller is turned off and >> > ALU is not running any algorithms. If a computer goes into power standy >> > and exits it quickly, it will resume what it was doing before. >> > Similarly, a person reaching nirvikalpa samadhi and leaving it quickly >> > will resume previous activities. If a computer stays in the power >> > standby for too long, it will be turned off and its state may be lost, >> > i.e. it cannot resume. If one stays in nirvikalpa samadhi for too long, >> > one will simply merge in Brahman and cannot resume previous activities. >> > >> > Sahaja samadhi is akin to a computer running a bare minimum program >> > that accesses a program running on a central super computer on a >> > network. CPU, ALU, memory etc are running on a central super computer >> > and our individual computer's CPU simply has a small routine that >> > accesses the results of the algorithm running on the super computer and >> > controls the local I/O controller accordingly. There isn't much data >> > stored locally and there is no algorithm running locally. One's praanas >> > are supplying power, one's jnanendriyas are getting inputs and one's >> > karmendriyas are engaging in actions, one's manas is controlling this >> > Input/Ouput activity and ahamkara (CPU) is controlling all this by >> > running a small program that accesses a super computer that is >> > monitoring all the computers of the world and deciding what this >> > computer should do. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > As I said, very very very few beings can reach sahaja samadhi and it is >> > beyond the reach of even the greatest yogis. As I said, most yogis >> > cannot even reach nirvikalpa samadhi. Some reach nirvikalpa samadhi, >> > come back to regular consciousness after a while and start to >> > accumulate conditioning again (chitta, i.e. DRAM). The CPU is running >> > some program or the other, however small, and accumulating more data in >> > DRAM and building up an algorithm in ALU. Minimization of I-ness is >> > possible, but elimination of I-ness while embodied is very difficult! >> > If any limited I-ness is left and any conditioning (I am this, I need >> > this, I like this etc) is left, then it is NOT sahaja samadhi. Sahaja >> > samadhi is a lack of limited individual I-ness and connecting the >> > supreme universal I-ness directly to one's mind and body. >> > >> > I cannot make judgments on individual claims, as it is none of my >> > business. I will take on individuals only when they interfere with my >> > dharma and my sense of dharma dictates that I should take them on. >> > >> > But the bottomline is that sahaja samadhi state is no joke and only >> > yogis of an absolutely tremendous caliber reach it. Those who reach >> > this state are like the god - supreme cosmic being - himself. >> > >> > * * * >> > >> > Let me give another analogy. This life is like a long dream. Saviklapa >> > samadhi is like wakig up *within* the dream. Nirvikalpa samadhi is like >> > waking up from the dream. Sahaja samadhi is like being in the dream and >> > yet being awake. >> > >> > This may confuse people, but this analogy shows how complex and >> > difficult sahaja samadhi is. The previous computer analogy highlights >> > how things work in a sahaja samadhi, but does not show why and how >> > difficult it is. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > Narasimha >> > >> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam >> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana >> > Spirituality: >> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net >> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org >> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings >> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org >> > >> > >> > > Dear Narasimha, namaste and pranaams >> > > >> > > What is sahaja samadhi and how is it different from nirvikalpa >> > > samadhi? >> > > >> > > best regards >> > > Hari >> > > >> > > > Sri Sri Ravishankar is a fully Enlightened Master living in >> > > > Sahaj Samadhi all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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