Moksha vs Kundalini at Sahasrara (Order of Creation...)

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Utpal reminded me that I did not answer his question in

 

/message/2741

 

1) Yes.

 

2) Nirvikalpa means without creational variety. Nirvikalpa samadhi is a state

where one does not perceive multitude of objects and creational variety. Chitta

may still have some accumulated conditioning left. If that is small enough,

ahamkara may have been allowed to merge in supreme consciousness. But, like a

compressed spring expanding, vanished ahamkara (individualized I-ness) may come

back in a little time.

 

When conditioning is small enough, one can be in nirvikalpa samadhi for long

enough. If that happens, that wipes out the little conditioning left in chitta.

One will then merge in Brahman for ever. As Ramakrishna said, some special souls

may come back to duality after conditioning is completely wiped out.

 

Normally, it is thought that one staying in nirvikalpa samadhi for a few days is

unlikely to come back. However, Ramakrishna was in that state for 6 months and

came back.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

, " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote:

>

> Narasimha Garu,

>

> Thank you for the elaborate message. i am contemplating on the message and not

yet very clear about some ideas.

>

> A couple of clarifications required whenever you have time and urge.

>

> 1) Kundalini reaching Sahasraar for the first time and every time is called

Nirvikalpa Samadhi?

>

> 2) you wrote: >if one stays in nirvikalpa samadhi long enough, all >the

conditioning in chitta is erased. Then one becomes free. If one >stayed in

nirvikalpa samadhi for a little time, it makes chitta >lighter but not empty.

>

> Nirvikapla means The one without Alternative. now if we literally go by name,

then what does it mean by *staying Shorter or longer time* in Nirvikalpa

Samadhi. Nirvikalpa should mean nirvikalpa - reaching that one does not come

back. Thakur have also repeatedly said that a normal soul when goes in to

Nirvikalpa samadhi, merges in to brahman and does not return back (Salt doll

example) and the body drops off in 21 days. only special souls who have to

fulfill some important mission can only come back to the world of duality.

>

> Warm regards,

>

> Utpal

>

>

> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Utpal,

> >

> > Kundalini reaching sahasraara and remaining there for a limited time is not

moksha. Kundalini remaining in sahasraara forever is moksha.

> >

> > The four internal instruments (antahkaranas) are manas, buddhi, ahamkaara

and chitta.

> >

> > Manas (sensory-motor mind) lies in manomaya kosha (the mental sheath) and

buddhi (intellectual/discriminating mind) lies in the vijnaanamaya kosha (the

knowledge sheath). These two sheaths, along with the praanamaya kosha (the

vitality sheath) form the so-called sookshma sareera (subtle body). Now, apart

from the gross physical body and subtle body, there is a causal body (kaarana

sareera). This contains the fifth sheath called aanandamaya kosha (the bliss

sheath).

> >

> > The antahkaranas that lie in this layer are chitta and ahamkaara. Chitta

(conditioned/remembering mind) stores all previous observations of manas and

judgments of buddhi and retrieves them when needed. What is stored to/retrieved

from chitta is based on I-ness or ahamkaara.

> >

> > Please note that ahamkaara and chitta influence each other. While one's

I-ness influences which experiences are added to the layer of conditioning in

chitta, also the mental conditioning represented by chitta influences what

entity one can identify with. If there is too much heavy conditioning, one's

ahamkaara cannot rise above the five elements and one cannot identify with a

deity for example.

> >

> > Normally ahamkaara or I-ness binds itself to an entity that has several

dense properties. If chitta becomes lighter and one can make ahamkaara bind to

something with lighter and lighter properties and if one finally succeeds in

making ahamkaara not bind itself to anything, i.e. one has no I-ness, then one

is established in Brahman without a sense of " this is I " , " this is something

else " etc. This is nirvikalpa samadhi. However, at that stage, the other

properties of the previously individualized consciousness still remain, e.g. 5

jnaanendriyas, 5 karmendriyas, 5 praanas, manas, buddhi and chitta. However,

ahamkaara is not identifying with *anything*, not even with a manifested deity

or some energy, and hence one is established in Brahman.

> >

> > Some conditioning may still be left in chitta when one's Kundalini reaches

sahasraara. It may have been subtle enough to let ahamkaara become silent and

not identify with any entity for a while. But it may not be empty yet and

suddenly it may spring into action and not let ahamkaara remain silent anymore.

So some thought may be retrived from the conditioned mind and that may provoke

the silenced ahamkaara into returning to action. One may come out of samadhi and

regain individualization.

> >

> > DRAM (dynamic random access memory) used in computers needs to be refreshed

now and then. Otherwise, data in it is erased. If the CPU is accessing DRAM now

and then and refreshing it, the data stays there. If CPU does not access the

data for too long, then the data is erased. Similarly, if one stays in

nirvikalpa samadhi long enough, all the conditioning in chitta is erased. Then

one becomes free. If one stayed in nirvikalpa samadhi for a little time, it

makes chitta lighter but not empty.

> >

> > To give a simple analogy, imagine ahamkaara to be the CPU of a computer.

Imagine chitta to be the DRAM (memory). Imagine buddhi to be the ALU (arithmetic

and logical unit) of the CPU. Imagine manas to be the I/O (input/output)

interface unit. Though imperfect, this analogy will help you understand the

basics well.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> >

> > ---- vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@> wrote:

> > > Namaste Rajarshi,

> > >

> > > I don't have the book at the moment but it is my impression that the

chapter indicated that the souls in the suvarna lokas have earlier reached the

state of what we call " Kundalini rised to Sahsraar Chakra " .

> > >

> > > i haven't given a correct idea in my earlier message when i wrote " ...the

souls who depart from Sahsraar... " .

> > >

> > > So i again repeat my query - Kundalini reaching and established in

Sahasraar chakra is *Final Realisation - complete moksha from all bonds* or

still there needs to pass through some still higher realm (say for instance

Suvarna loka) to workout Karan Shareer/Aanandamaya Kosha.

> > >

> > > Best Regards,

> > >

> > > Utpal

> > >

> > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Utpalji,

> > > > Â

> > > > Nice query.

> > > > Â

> > > > Logically speaking, it maybe that " soul leaving the body " has does not

mean mearging once self awareness into the Brahman.

> > > > Â

> > > > -Regards

> > > > Â Rajarshi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > >

> > > > --- On Thu, 1/10/09, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@>

> > > > Re: Order of Creation, Physics & Reality

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, 1 October, 2009, 10:47 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Pranaams,

> > > >

> > > > >In Sahasrara chakra lies undifferentiated consciousness (Brahman or

>Aatman),where there are no I-ness or any objectification.

> > > >

> > > > Does it mean that when consciousness reaches Sahasraar Chakra, one

merges in to Brahman and that is the same state which is named varyingly as

Realisation/ Jeevan Mukta/Nirvikalpa Samaadhi/Merging in to brahaman etc...?

> > > >

> > > > Why i asked you this question is because, i am little confused here. if

i remember correctly, in " Auto Biography of a Yogi " , it is mentioned that only

the souls who depart from Sahsraar are eligible to enter to Suvarnaa loka and

then there they have to still work out the bondage of their Karana Shareera...

> > > > Is it not true that Chetana reaching Sahsraar means *practically* end of

journey.?

> > > >

> > > > How to reconcile with the above to seemingly different informations?

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Utpal

> > > >

> > > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am only addressing the five elements mentioned in upanishads.

> > > > >

> > > > > In Sahasrara chakra lies undifferentiated consciousness (Brahman or

Aatman), where there are no I-ness or any objectification. Just below it, there

are several lokas that people do not mention normally. In Aajnaa chakra lies the

primordial state of the universe where there is just space and time, but no five

elements. From visuddhi chakra to moolaadhaara chakra lie the elements of ether,

air, fire, water and earth as I mentioned. I only focused on the last five

stages.

> > > > >

> > > > > What happens between Sahasrara and Aajnaa is known only to greatest of

seers. It is true that several yogis can be established in Sahasrara, where

there is no ego and no objectification. However, very very very few can

understand what happens in the chakras just below Sahasrara and above Aajnaa,

where there is still I-ness and objectification, but at a very very high level

that is beyond the play of elements.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is a lot more happening between Sahasrara and Aajnaa than

elsewhere, but we are not well-equipped to understand it...

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > >

> > > > > ---- yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > > > > You mentioned 5 tattwas, while there are 6 tattwas - that are

associated with the 6 cerebro-spinal chakras - a result of all possible

combination of 3 gunas of nature.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Gunas Tattwa Chakras

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Satvic Tamas - SuperEther - Medulla

> > > > > > Satvic Satva - Ether (Aakash tattwa) - Throat

> > > > > > Satvic Rajas - Air (Vayu tattwa) - Heart

> > > > > > Rajasic Rajas - Fire (Agni tattwa) - Navel

> > > > > > Rajasic Tamas - Water (Jala tattwa) - Sacral

> > > > > > Tamasic Tamas - Earth (Prithvi tattwa) - Coccygeal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SuperEther

> > > > > > 1. All pervading Prana from which Aakash tattwa is created - refer

RajaYoga of Vivekananda.

> > > > > > 2. Background of Aakash tattwa - Refer Gita Commentary of Yogananda

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is the starting point if one begins to discuss about Creation in

any sense...

> > > > > > Your comments.

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Sundeep and Rajarshi,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, Pt Rath's astrology book " Brihat Nakshatra " gives a different

order of creation starting with water and ending with the pair of ether and

earth. It seems to be his extrapolation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What you quoted from Taittariya Upanishad is the traditional view

that I am familiar with. Other scriptures refer to the same order of creation,

including " Yoga Vaasishtham " , where Maharshi Vasishtha teaches creation,

destruction and liberation to Lord Rama.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This Upanishadic understanding is also consistent with chakra

based understanding of Tantra. The five chakras downwards from Visuddhi chakra

to Moolaadhaara chakra represent ether, air, fire, water and earth. When

Kundalini leaves Moolaadhaara, earth element within one is surrendered, i.e. all

traces of earth element are effaced in one's self-awareness. When Kundalini

leaves Swaadhishthaana, water element within one is surrendered, i.e. all traces

of water element are effaced in one's self-awareness. And so on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > By earth and water etc, don't just think of physical earth and

physical water etc. Earth element shows a solid state of existence. Water

element shows a flexible and fluid state of existence. For example, an idea that

one " owns " a particular thing (e.g. a car, a house, spouse, some knowledge etc)

is of solid state and made of earth element. An idea that one " needs " a

particular thing (e.g. a car, a house, spouse, some knowledge etc) is of the

nature of water element. Thus, different mental concepts and ideas can be mapped

to the five elements.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When one thinks of " I " , one perhaps thinks of a body that looks

and feels in a particular way physically. Apart from the physical aspect, one

may think of " I " as someone who has certain qualities, certain needs, certain

belongings etc. All those concepts one has about who one is, form one's

self-awareness and Kundalini represents that self-awareness. Kundalini cannot

leave Moolaadhaara chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* in nature within one's

cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. Kundalini cannot leave

Swaadhishthaana chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* or *fluid* in nature

within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. And so on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Many people who talk about experiences of Kundalini in higher

chakras are often talking merely about some amount of vaayus flowing in those

chakras (which may still be a nice experience) and have *not* experienced

Kundalini actually being there. IF Kundalini really leaves Moolaadhaara, one

will not perceive a solid body, one will not have notions of owning anything.

Similarly, as Kundalini moves up each chakra, each element is effaced in one's

cumulative idea of who one is, at the physical as well as the subtle level of

existence! To completely efface even one element (earth) from one's notion of

self ( " I " ), even for a short duration of time, is not at all easy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The order in which elements are effaced as one progresses towards

samadhi is - earth, water, fire, air and ether. If Kundalini again comes down,

effaced elements return to work in the reverse order - ether, air, fire, water

and earth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regarding physics and spiritual realities:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Does physics describe reality?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Physics tries to describe/model reality at the gross physical

level, as perceived by the external senses. However, one's mind can " perceive "

things without the external senses playing a role.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As a simple example, one may be asleep and get a dream, in which

one's mind may " see " some people and " hear " a conversation between them. In

another example, a yogi may be meditating with a mantra with intense focus and

" see " some scenes and/or " hear " some things. These things cannot be perceived by

the external senses and hence cannot be studied by modern science.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is reasonable to define reality as something that can be

perceived by the external senses, because different people can experience the

same reality using their senses individually and verify the observation.

However, some experiences of the mind that cannot be perceived by senses are

sometimes very powerful and have a huge, life-altering and sometimes liberating

influence on people. Inability to study and model them is a big drawback of

modern science.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > One may categorize dreams and internal yogic experiences as

imaginations or hallucinations, because there is no independent validation, and

call them unworthy of a study. But there are cases that make one wonder. For

example, see the following messages from the archives.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mystical experiences of mind and mantras (message 951)

> > > > > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 951

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the above message, one person had a specific yogic experience

that was described in detail and another person seemed to know about it and

supplied one tangible detail relating to the experience, suggesting that he too

" observed " the experience of the first person, though it was beyond the external

senses of either person!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Re: Guru (message 391)

> > > > > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 391

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the above message also, one person had a specific yogic

experience that was described in detail and another person seemed to know about

it and supplied a couple of tangible details relating to the experience,

suggesting that he too " observed " the experience of the first person, though it

was beyond the external senses of either person!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Internal god and external god (message 2498)

> > > > > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 2498

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In the above message, one person had a specific yogic experience

involving a deity and another person perceived with his external senses a vision

involving the same deity, though others in the room could not perceive anything

with their external senses, suggesting that the second person " observed " the

experience of the first person through a specific prism.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Such examples cannot prove much, but they do suggest that perhaps

*some* experiences that cannot be measured or perceived by the external senses

are observable by others, though not everyone may be able to observe. Then, one

cannot rule out the possibility of *some* experiences that cannot be measured or

perceived by the external senses being a part of the " reality " that mind can

access.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, how can modern science study it?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because the only thing that can be studied and measured is the

reality involving the gross body and its senses, one may suggest that

experiences of the subtle body may be studied by observing various parts of the

gross physical body. For example, one can look at the nervous signals flowing

through various parts of the brain and try to correlate them with the

experiences of the subtle body.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On the surface, it sounds like a great idea. But, it assumes that

subtle body and causal body are redundant. Though there is some correspondence

between what happens in the causal, subtle and gross bodies, it is a

many-to-many mapping and NOT a one-to-one mapping, in which case the concept of

causal and subtle bodies would be redundant, i.e. whatever they model can be

moderled using just the gross body!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you drive through a neighborhood and observe the houses from

the road, you can have *some* idea of what is going on. A particular house with

a lot of lights and sound and many cars parked outside may be having a party.

People in one particular house with no lights are probably out of town. But you

can never be sure what is going on in the house, how many people are inside,

what exactly they are doing etc, by merely looking at the house from outside.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Similarly, by looking at the nervous signals in various points of

the brain, you may be able to see some basic things, but not much. The

experiences of the subtle mind are beyond your reach and study, if your tools

are limited to the gross physical domain.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Unfortunately, modern science cannot study that part of the

reality which is beyond the scope of external senses, unless scientists become

yogis and develop mastery of the internal world.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While rishis of ancient times had mastery of the internal world

(which is the microcosm of the entire universe) and could observe any space-time

point, even the greatest yogis of today cannot control their state completely.

When Kundalini rises, it may go somewhere and one may experience some part of

the Infinite Reality. But one cannot control exactly where Kundalini goes and

exactly which part of the Infinite Reality one observes. Rishis seemed to have a

perfect control.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/

tarpana

> > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ---- rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > > Sorry the previous mail went off incomplete.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Let me mention some stuff from the diaries of Sri Shamacharun

Lahiri (a self realized Yogi of the highest order) - it maybe of some help to

you. He did mention in details about the process of creation as he saw it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As per him, at the beginning was the point of ultimate chaos.

Then from there came the " vidhyut " of Akash. As this " Vidyut " interacted with

the chaos, it produced some universal energies which are more commonly known as

the universal deities like Shiva, Vishnu etc etc. Then came the " Vidyut " of vayu

( none of these are the actual physical elements as we see it, but more the

essence of the element, hence his use of the word " vidyut " and " taranga " ) whose

interaction with the chaos resulted in some more energy states. Thus, in this

way came, Agni, Apa and Prithwi, each one resulting from the previous and each

one resulting in some energy states, which in the end resulted in 33 crore

possible states of energy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There is some lesson in there (at least for me), and I want to

get at it.. I feel there may be some correlation between that and the

11-dimensional physics of super string theory too, but I get ahead of myself..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > This is a nice idea and I would like to know more about it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As much as I could fathom (I am no physicist, neither do I have

the ability to penetrate the mathematics of the M-Theory), as it stands now, it

is quite half formed. There being multiple theories of the String variety,

adhered to by multiple physicists, the M-Theory (11 dimensional one) is one of

the many which 'claim to explain' in parts some aspects of the physical world.

Finding a correlation between this and the idea of the five elements, in my

humble opinion, is still far fetched. I can understand some correlation between

basic Quantum Mechanics, (at least the Copenhegan Interpretation) , non-locality

etc, and the ideas of Indian mysticism, but a link between M-theory of

panch-mahabhuta? !..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Well, with the kind permission of Narasimha, I would like to

know more about how exactly you can link these two, because I myself with my

limited understand fail to see any viable correlation at all as of now,

specially, since the M-theory is yet in a very nascent stage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The other thing one must think about is the basic nature of

theoritical physics. Does physics describe reality? Or does it provide a model

of reality? These two are different. Mathematics provides a tool/model to gauge

reality. It need not be exactly as reality is.

> > > > > > > > Which is why Richard Feynman once famously quoted that everyone

knows that Quatum Mechanics works, but no one know what it really is!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The idea of the pach mahabhuta and creation is almost the

essence of everything. The day physics gets THAT deep, there would be really

nothing more left to do. Physics is still quite far away from that stage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -Regards

> > > > > > > > Rajarshi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 29/9/09, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@ >

wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Rajarshi,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not sure if I get the thrust of your point. Yes, sadhana is the

only way to know this for sure. And so also for everything else that is below

the reach of the senses (e.g. Atma, sookshma sarira etc). But we do read about

them (all these things e.g Atma etc), and about the significance of the vedic

gods anyway, dont we? They do offer a mild complement to sadhana, dont they?

They do help make the mind more receptive toward the benefits of sadhana..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also wanted to assure you that I really want to know the answer

to the question. I am not interested in a he-said/she- said type game (if

perhaps that is what you were hinting at?). I am extremely curious as to why

there is an order and not a parallelism, for e.g. why are the mahabhutas not

simultaneously formed. There is some lesson in there (at least for me), and I

want to get at it.. I feel there may be some correlation between that and the

11-dimensional physics of super string theory too, but I get ahead of myself..

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sundeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > , rajarshi nandy

<rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > With all due respect to your query, I wanted to ask, how does

it matter? Can anyone here really know for sure which came after which? We can

only speculate and guess and retrofit logic and quote one scripture vs another

scripture.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Only practical way to really find out the truth is sadhana.

That too if we are destined to find out we will, or else no.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -Regards

> > > > > > > > > Rajarshi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 29/9/09, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@

....> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@ ...>

> > > > > > > > > Order of Creation (of

mahabhuta/tattwa) ?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tuesday, 29 September, 2009, 1:12 AM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimhaji and others,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In Taittiriya Upanishad (http://www.sacred- texts.com/

hin/sbe15/ sbe15034. htm), the following is the order of creation (Max Mueller

interpretation) :

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > " From that Self 2 (Brahman) sprang ether

(Ã?Æ'Ã?¢kÃ?Æ'Ã?¢sa, that through which we

hear); from ether air (that through which we hear and feel); from air fire (that

through which we hear, feel, and see); from fire water (that through which we

hear, feel, see, and taste); from water earth (that through which we hear, feel,

see, taste, and smell) "

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This sounds logical to me in that I expected Akasa to be first

and earth to be last. I have heard differing opinions though, perhaps in Sanjay

Rathji's Brhat Nakshtra but since I dont have the book in front of me, I cant

confirm. Do you agree with the interpretation above, if not what is your belief,

source and justification?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thank you,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sundeep