Koshas and Chakras (Order of Creation, Physics & Reality)

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sundeep,

 

Though you asked a very good question, we got sidetracked with other discussions

at that time and I did not get a chance to respond to you.

 

* * *

 

A computer has different parts. The mother board supporting the crux of

computing, any daughter cards for specific algorithms, I/O controllers and I/O

cables, power supply circuitry and finally the mechanical parts (e.g. chassis,

hard disk, USB ports etc).

 

The koshas are analogous to this. Aanandamaya kosha is like a motherboard

containing CPU, memory etc, vijnaanamaya kosha is like a daughtercard for

algorithms, manomaya kosha is like I/O cntrollers and I/O cables, praanamaya

kosha is like power supply circuitry and annamaya kosha is like the mechanical

parts.

 

Now, a computer may be operating in many modes. It may be running full blast

reading a huge video file from the network, storing to an external USB drive and

also showing video on the screen. Or it may be running in modes with several

levels of power saving, with some activities limited based on the power saving

level. Or it may be in a power standby. Depending on the power saving mode, the

functionality and workload of each of the above layers may change. But, a

computer in a power save mode may still be checking the network or USB drive or

key board or mouse and using the power supply circuitry.

 

Similarly, all the koshas are performing various functions normally. They are

all busy with a lot of activity. As Kundalini rises through chakras, the

activity may come down. But various koshas continue to function, albeit at a

lower (or atleast altered) level of activity.

 

* * *

 

Koshas are a breakdown of individualized consciousness based on functionality.

Different parts of individualized consciousness play different roles to keep the

individualization going.

 

Chakras are realms of awareness that consciousness can be in. As consciousness

rises from one realm of awareness to another, activities of various koshas

within the respective functionality areas comes down. The koshas are layers that

work together. You cannot stop one layer and then stop another. You have to slow

down all layers together, but the exact mechanism and impact of slowdown changes

from layer to layer. So you keep slowing them down together, in steps.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

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, " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent

wrote:

>

> Dear Narasimhaji,

>

> What is your opinion on this: Clearly Adi Sankara's Vivekacudamani does two

broad levels of classification (a) the material level of classification, in

which he quantifies materiality in its various levels of manifestation - karana

sarira (gunas), linga sarira (tattwas) and sthoola sarira (mahabhutas) (b) the

realization level of classification - annamayakosa, pranamayakosa, manomayakosa,

vijnanamayakosa, and anandamayakosa. There has to be a reason why he defined the

realization levels of classification into 5, right? Consequently, the " rising of

kundalini " must also give at some level of classification the same set of

realizations, no? It would seem at least superficially to fit on the 5 lower

chakras. From that point of view, the 6th chakra would be after the

anandamayakosa. Clearly the anandamayakosa would be the final level of egoity,

since by being released from it would leave one out of the linga sarira, but yet

possibly still in the karana sarira (gunas level). It would seem that any

realization levels after getting into the karana sarira would be ahamkara free

(and of course tattwa free), yet guna bound. Final releas from gunas of course

would lead to pure awakening of Brahman.

>

> The point above is - if the mayakosas are not related to the kundalini

chakras, what are they? They must be experienced at some level of realization,

no?

>

> Regards,

>

> Sundeep

>

> , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > I am only addressing the five elements mentioned in upanishads.

> >

> > In Sahasrara chakra lies undifferentiated consciousness (Brahman or Aatman),

where there are no I-ness or any objectification. Just below it, there are

several lokas that people do not mention normally. In Aajnaa chakra lies the

primordial state of the universe where there is just space and time, but no five

elements. From visuddhi chakra to moolaadhaara chakra lie the elements of ether,

air, fire, water and earth as I mentioned. I only focused on the last five

stages.

> >

> > What happens between Sahasrara and Aajnaa is known only to greatest of

seers. It is true that several yogis can be established in Sahasrara, where

there is no ego and no objectification. However, very very very few can

understand what happens in the chakras just below Sahasrara and above Aajnaa,

where there is still I-ness and objectification, but at a very very high level

that is beyond the play of elements.

> >

> > There is a lot more happening between Sahasrara and Aajnaa than elsewhere,

but we are not well-equipped to understand it...

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >

> >

> > ---- yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@> wrote:

> > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > Dear Narasimha,

> > > You mentioned 5 tattwas, while there are 6 tattwas - that are associated

with the 6 cerebro-spinal chakras - a result of all possible combination of 3

gunas of nature.

> > >

> > > Gunas Tattwa Chakras

> > >

> > > Satvic Tamas - SuperEther - Medulla

> > > Satvic Satva - Ether (Aakash tattwa) - Throat

> > > Satvic Rajas - Air (Vayu tattwa) - Heart

> > > Rajasic Rajas - Fire (Agni tattwa) - Navel

> > > Rajasic Tamas - Water (Jala tattwa) - Sacral

> > > Tamasic Tamas - Earth (Prithvi tattwa) - Coccygeal

> > >

> > > SuperEther

> > > 1. All pervading Prana from which Aakash tattwa is created - refer

RajaYoga of Vivekananda.

> > > 2. Background of Aakash tattwa - Refer Gita Commentary of Yogananda

> > >

> > > It is the starting point if one begins to discuss about Creation in any

sense...

> > > Your comments.

> > > Regards,

> > > Nitish

> > >

> > > , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Sundeep and Rajarshi,

> > > >

> > > > Yes, Pt Rath's astrology book " Brihat Nakshatra " gives a different order

of creation starting with water and ending with the pair of ether and earth. It

seems to be his extrapolation.

> > > >

> > > > What you quoted from Taittariya Upanishad is the traditional view that I

am familiar with. Other scriptures refer to the same order of creation,

including " Yoga Vaasishtham " , where Maharshi Vasishtha teaches creation,

destruction and liberation to Lord Rama.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > This Upanishadic understanding is also consistent with chakra based

understanding of Tantra. The five chakras downwards from Visuddhi chakra to

Moolaadhaara chakra represent ether, air, fire, water and earth. When Kundalini

leaves Moolaadhaara, earth element within one is surrendered, i.e. all traces of

earth element are effaced in one's self-awareness. When Kundalini leaves

Swaadhishthaana, water element within one is surrendered, i.e. all traces of

water element are effaced in one's self-awareness. And so on.

> > > >

> > > > By earth and water etc, don't just think of physical earth and physical

water etc. Earth element shows a solid state of existence. Water element shows a

flexible and fluid state of existence. For example, an idea that one " owns " a

particular thing (e.g. a car, a house, spouse, some knowledge etc) is of solid

state and made of earth element. An idea that one " needs " a particular thing

(e.g. a car, a house, spouse, some knowledge etc) is of the nature of water

element. Thus, different mental concepts and ideas can be mapped to the five

elements.

> > > >

> > > > When one thinks of " I " , one perhaps thinks of a body that looks and

feels in a particular way physically. Apart from the physical aspect, one may

think of " I " as someone who has certain qualities, certain needs, certain

belongings etc. All those concepts one has about who one is, form one's

self-awareness and Kundalini represents that self-awareness. Kundalini cannot

leave Moolaadhaara chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* in nature within one's

cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. Kundalini cannot leave

Swaadhishthaana chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* or *fluid* in nature

within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. And so on.

> > > >

> > > > Many people who talk about experiences of Kundalini in higher chakras

are often talking merely about some amount of vaayus flowing in those chakras

(which may still be a nice experience) and have *not* experienced Kundalini

actually being there. IF Kundalini really leaves Moolaadhaara, one will not

perceive a solid body, one will not have notions of owning anything. Similarly,

as Kundalini moves up each chakra, each element is effaced in one's cumulative

idea of who one is, at the physical as well as the subtle level of existence! To

completely efface even one element (earth) from one's notion of self ( " I " ), even

for a short duration of time, is not at all easy.

> > > >

> > > > The order in which elements are effaced as one progresses towards

samadhi is - earth, water, fire, air and ether. If Kundalini again comes down,

effaced elements return to work in the reverse order - ether, air, fire, water

and earth.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > Regarding physics and spiritual realities:

> > > >

> > > > > Does physics describe reality?

> > > >

> > > > Physics tries to describe/model reality at the gross physical level, as

perceived by the external senses. However, one's mind can " perceive " things

without the external senses playing a role.

> > > >

> > > > As a simple example, one may be asleep and get a dream, in which one's

mind may " see " some people and " hear " a conversation between them. In another

example, a yogi may be meditating with a mantra with intense focus and " see "

some scenes and/or " hear " some things. These things cannot be perceived by the

external senses and hence cannot be studied by modern science.

> > > >

> > > > It is reasonable to define reality as something that can be perceived by

the external senses, because different people can experience the same reality

using their senses individually and verify the observation. However, some

experiences of the mind that cannot be perceived by senses are sometimes very

powerful and have a huge, life-altering and sometimes liberating influence on

people. Inability to study and model them is a big drawback of modern science.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > One may categorize dreams and internal yogic experiences as imaginations

or hallucinations, because there is no independent validation, and call them

unworthy of a study. But there are cases that make one wonder. For example, see

the following messages from the archives.

> > > >

> > > > Mystical experiences of mind and mantras (message 951)

> > > > /message/951

> > > >

> > > > In the above message, one person had a specific yogic experience that

was described in detail and another person seemed to know about it and supplied

one tangible detail relating to the experience, suggesting that he too

" observed " the experience of the first person, though it was beyond the external

senses of either person!

> > > >

> > > > Re: Guru (message 391)

> > > > /message/391

> > > >

> > > > In the above message also, one person had a specific yogic experience

that was described in detail and another person seemed to know about it and

supplied a couple of tangible details relating to the experience, suggesting

that he too " observed " the experience of the first person, though it was beyond

the external senses of either person!

> > > >

> > > > Internal god and external god (message 2498)

> > > > /message/2498

> > > >

> > > > In the above message, one person had a specific yogic experience

involving a deity and another person perceived with his external senses a vision

involving the same deity, though others in the room could not perceive anything

with their external senses, suggesting that the second person " observed " the

experience of the first person through a specific prism.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > Such examples cannot prove much, but they do suggest that perhaps *some*

experiences that cannot be measured or perceived by the external senses are

observable by others, though not everyone may be able to observe. Then, one

cannot rule out the possibility of *some* experiences that cannot be measured or

perceived by the external senses being a part of the " reality " that mind can

access.

> > > >

> > > > But, how can modern science study it?

> > > >

> > > > Because the only thing that can be studied and measured is the reality

involving the gross body and its senses, one may suggest that experiences of the

subtle body may be studied by observing various parts of the gross physical

body. For example, one can look at the nervous signals flowing through various

parts of the brain and try to correlate them with the experiences of the subtle

body.

> > > >

> > > > On the surface, it sounds like a great idea. But, it assumes that subtle

body and causal body are redundant. Though there is some correspondence between

what happens in the causal, subtle and gross bodies, it is a many-to-many

mapping and NOT a one-to-one mapping, in which case the concept of causal and

subtle bodies would be redundant, i.e. whatever they model can be moderled using

just the gross body!

> > > >

> > > > If you drive through a neighborhood and observe the houses from the

road, you can have *some* idea of what is going on. A particular house with a

lot of lights and sound and many cars parked outside may be having a party.

People in one particular house with no lights are probably out of town. But you

can never be sure what is going on in the house, how many people are inside,

what exactly they are doing etc, by merely looking at the house from outside.

> > > >

> > > > Similarly, by looking at the nervous signals in various points of the

brain, you may be able to see some basic things, but not much. The experiences

of the subtle mind are beyond your reach and study, if your tools are limited to

the gross physical domain.

> > > >

> > > > * * *

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately, modern science cannot study that part of the reality

which is beyond the scope of external senses, unless scientists become yogis and

develop mastery of the internal world.

> > > >

> > > > While rishis of ancient times had mastery of the internal world (which

is the microcosm of the entire universe) and could observe any space-time point,

even the greatest yogis of today cannot control their state completely. When

Kundalini rises, it may go somewhere and one may experience some part of the

Infinite Reality. But one cannot control exactly where Kundalini goes and

exactly which part of the Infinite Reality one observes. Rishis seemed to have a

perfect control.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha