Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Namaste VemparlaRamKishore ji, i am sorry to deviate from the Subject > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed >came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little >dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated >much from the original messages. I agree completely to your opinion. it is opinion of mine as well. IM not really humbleO, The west and the middle east was probably so much in dark period (spiritually) that there required some person(S) who can lead them to some dharma in their daily routine. However i try, i can not agree to the notion that *ours is the only right path and others will go to hell*. So either the books available are not the same versions given by prophets like Jesus and Mohammed OR it may have been the need of the time which was to be eventually a great threat in the future. In the same breath, i have reservation about ISCON as well. I see fanaticism there as well. Their marketing really puts question mark and repel people. Some of the forcible teachings such as Krishna is the supreme God and others are demi gods (Gods which hold lesser portfolios). It is very amusing at times ....They show in their Yearly calendar that Vishnu and other Incarnations are actually of Krishna and not of Vishnu. The same goes for different branches within Hinduism and their fight of supremacy over each other such as Vaishnavites and Shaivites, Advaitins and Dvaitins etc… etc… Apologizing in advance if written something harsh but truth is sometimes better told as it is. Best Regards, Utpal , " vemparlaramkishore " <vemparlaramkishore wrote: > > Rajarishi Ji > > Please treat these as just my thoughts.I am very much junior in both wisdom and scripturual knowledge. > > " To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? " > > The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation. In reality the underlying truth is there is a lot of contradiction ...but then the face of christianity you know today might not even be what it was originally. > > 1.The version of Christianity you know today is the one obtained after Ceasar forcibly burnt all the gnostic bibles and differing versions of truth .... > > 2.All upcomign historical evidence points to the fact that Christ had a wife by name Mary Magdalene.... > > Now Christianity condemns the very concept of sex as cardinal sin and assumes every human being is born in Sin. > > 3.In Kashmir there is still a place where they worship the padukas of christ when he visited Kashmir... > > History and Religion are written by the victors. > > Same is the case with Islam...If you open any authentic version of the holy book you will be surprised by some of the inconsistent verses which often smack of hate...of a world filled with Kafirs and Non beleivers and Explicit prohibition of Idol worship etc. > > > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. > > Hinduism also has deviated from the spirit of the vedas with corruptions entering into the practise of caste etc...but still is much better in preservation of the original meaning. > > > Yogananda, Sivananda , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various saints including Srila Prabhupada when they entered the west in the early 1960's had the unenviable task of explaining some of the concepts in terms which the westerner could understand. The parallel imagery is what comes from that... > > > If somebody could separate the chaff from the grain and read the books they will definetly reach salvation in those paths, if not it is much better to stick to Hinduism. > > I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. > > Regards > VemparlaRamKishore > > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > >  > > To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? > >  > > I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol. > >  > > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/creative/destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront? > >  > >  > > I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming > > joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience. > >  > > Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess.  He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. > >  > > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there?  Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all? > >  > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > > > >  > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote: > > > > > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> > > Re: Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > >  > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> > > Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM > > > > > >  > > > >  > > Namaste, > >  > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. > >  > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. > >  > > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. > >  > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. > >  > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left > > in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. > >  > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. > >  > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. > >  > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: > >  > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. > >  > > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. > >  > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > - > > Astro Seeker > > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM > > Holy Places > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Sriram > >  > > > > > > Try the new India Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail./connectmore > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 tirumantram in tamil is a agama . tirumoolar wrote the follow 1558 tantra which made the shiva worshiping shaivaites angry and they classified tirumantirum as the 10th important book as tirumoolar equates all religion as equal.tirumoolar has written books on astrology in tamil also. he has wrote about karma,gnana,bakthi,yoga, tantra, sex and medicine. in one tantra he tells his book is equivalent to veda and if you read his book it is equal to veda. he tells how being in samadhi for 11 years a yogi gets the gods power and many more interesting yoga points..look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirumandhiramand look at http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/tirumantiram/TantraFive.htmltandra number 1558 says1558: All Faiths Lead but to Lordfor one city there are six paththose who say this is good that is badare like dog barking at a hillstone***********************anyway a unrealised sadhak must try to practise thiseven when i believe the tirumular who refers six subsets of hinduism sun,sakthi,ganesha,muruga,shiva and vishnunow it may be expanded to hinduism, muslim christianity etcstill i find hard to control myself against quran which advocates female genital mutilationbut i can not improve my spirituality without following this song. i have to train myselfvedic_pathak <vedic_pathak Sent: Fri, October 9, 2009 11:01:02 AM fanaticism Namaste VemparlaRamKishore ji, i am sorry to deviate from the Subject > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed >came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little >dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated >much from the original messages. I agree completely to your opinion. it is opinion of mine as well. IM not really humbleO, The west and the middle east was probably so much in dark period (spiritually) that there required some person(S) who can lead them to some dharma in their daily routine. However i try, i can not agree to the notion that *ours is the only right path and others will go to hell*. So either the books available are not the same versions given by prophets like Jesus and Mohammed OR it may have been the need of the time which was to be eventually a great threat in the future. In the same breath, i have reservation about ISCON as well. I see fanaticism there as well. Their marketing really puts question mark and repel people. Some of the forcible teachings such as Krishna is the supreme God and others are demi gods (Gods which hold lesser portfolios). It is very amusing at times ....They show in their Yearly calendar that Vishnu and other Incarnations are actually of Krishna and not of Vishnu. The same goes for different branches within Hinduism and their fight of supremacy over each other such as Vaishnavites and Shaivites, Advaitins and Dvaitins etc… etc… Apologizing in advance if written something harsh but truth is sometimes better told as it is. Best Regards, Utpal @ .. com, "vemparlaramkishore " <vemparlaramkishore wrote: > > Rajarishi Ji > > Please treat these as just my thoughts.I am very much junior in both wisdom and scripturual knowledge. > > "To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? " > > The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation. In reality the underlying truth is there is a lot of contradiction ...but then the face of christianity you know today might not even be what it was originally. > > 1.The version of Christianity you know today is the one obtained after Ceasar forcibly burnt all the gnostic bibles and differing versions of truth .... > > 2.All upcomign historical evidence points to the fact that Christ had a wife by name Mary Magdalene... . > > Now Christianity condemns the very concept of sex as cardinal sin and assumes every human being is born in Sin. > > 3.In Kashmir there is still a place where they worship the padukas of christ when he visited Kashmir... > > History and Religion are written by the victors. > > Same is the case with Islam....If you open any authentic version of the holy book you will be surprised by some of the inconsistent verses which often smack of hate...of a world filled with Kafirs and Non beleivers and Explicit prohibition of Idol worship etc. > > > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. > > Hinduism also has deviated from the spirit of the vedas with corruptions entering into the practise of caste etc...but still is much better in preservation of the original meaning. > > > Yogananda, Sivananda , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various saints including Srila Prabhupada when they entered the west in the early 1960's had the unenviable task of explaining some of the concepts in terms which the westerner could understand. The parallel imagery is what comes from that... > > > If somebody could separate the chaff from the grain and read the books they will definetly reach salvation in those paths, if not it is much better to stick to Hinduism. > > I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. > > Regards > VemparlaRamKishore > > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ > wrote: > > > > Namaste, > >  > > To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? > >  > > I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol. > >  > > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/ creative/ destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront? > >  > >  > > I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming > > joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience. > >  > > Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess.  He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. > >  > > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there?  Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all? > >  > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > > > >  > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ > wrote: > > > > > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ > > > Re: Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > >  > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> > > Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM > > > > > >  > > > >  > > Namaste, > >  > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. > >  > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. > >  > > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. > >  > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. > >  > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left > > in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. > >  > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. > >  > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. > >  > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: > >  > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. > >  > > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. > >  > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > - > > Astro Seeker > > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM > > Holy Places > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Sriram > >  > > > > > > Try the new India Homepage. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.