Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Respected Narsimhaji,I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this.Best Regards,Sriram Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009  Namaste, If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols * * * It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well-known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. * * * Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgJyotish writings: JyotishWritingsSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Astro Seeker Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM Holy Places Respected Narsimhaji, I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. Best Regards, Sriram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Namaste Narsimhaji,Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did "locals" who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the period of time.I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain "Amavasya". After taking bath, they started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their "Custom". Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it.In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. As they are highly filled with Tamas now.Best Regards,Sriram--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Holy Places Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 2:41 AM  Namaste, If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols * * * It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. * * * Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgJyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tingsSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Astro Seeker Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM Holy Places Respected Narsimhaji, I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. Best Regards, Sriram Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Namaste, In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Holy Places Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM  Namaste, If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols * * * It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. * * * Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgJyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tingsSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Astro Seeker Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM Holy Places Respected Narsimhaji, I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. Best Regards, Sriram Try the new India Homepage. 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Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Namaste, Holy places - i am thinking about how to decide if a certain place has good spiritual vibrations or not? Whenever i see writings from Narasimha or from others which talks about spiritual vibrations, i wonder! If it's a feel good factor within or without? If we go to the famous temples of India today, it is almost sure that one will find lot of crowd and resultant noise, gossips, business, cheating, discrimination etc... etc... can that be criteria for judging the spiritual energy of the place? my two distinct experiences (external): 1) i went to Jagannath Puri in year year 95. when i entered to take Darshan of all the 3 famous idols, i was shocked by the dogmatic behavior of the Pandas standing there near the Idols. they almost commanded me to put some money in front of the Idol. one can imagine my condition. Instead of focusing on the lord, i was angry at them and refused to oblige. 2) Once we (group of friends) went to 'Mota Ambaji' (in Gujarat near Mount Abu). one shopkeeper (who sales pujan saamagri) just at the entrance of the famous temple, gave us all the puja material in a plate. We made a mistake by not asking him price. After we came back from the temple, he asked us to pay around 1500 Rs per plate. can anybody imagine such price?. we have to bargain so much with him that after that i hardly buy such puja saamgri whenever i go to any temple. for instance if i go to MahaLakshmi Temple of Mumbai, i'll take 3 lotuses to offer Mahakaali-Mahalakshmi-MahaSaraswati and that is all. However I must say that the above two bad experiences did not discourage me. Such things as well as few other things like General atmosphere, crowd, noise, beggars, dirt, etc… are external things IMHO. There is also spiritual energy generated by many many pure hearted visitors. Warm regards, Utpal , Astro Seeker <astro.seeker wrote: > > Namaste Narsimhaji, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did " locals " who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the period of time. > > I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain " Amavasya " . After taking bath, they started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their " Custom " . Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it. > > In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. As they are highly filled with Tamas now. > > Best Regards, > Sriram > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr > Re: Holy Places > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 2:41 AM  > > > > > >  > > > Namaste, >  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in > a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick > completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes > to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was > burnt. >  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, > the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the > saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger > there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. >  > In many famous temples these days, priests have > become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed > every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       > *       * >  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do > not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At > the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine > presence. >  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple > in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and > Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a > tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples > where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did > not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in > Calcutta. >  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was > taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu > before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that > temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of > the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not > understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes > and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a > vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt > that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess > likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I > was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the > name of the temple and goddess. >  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a > powerful divine presence across India. >  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one > of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at > Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the > underground chamber there. >  > *       > *       * >  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better > for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with > rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of > sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my > view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are > really good. >  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing > spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: >  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east > India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and > Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, > Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan > and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in > central India. >  > There are many other good places, but the above > come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for > several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual > sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. >  > Best > regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do > a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do > Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free > Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free > Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Jyotish > writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > - > > Astro > Seeker > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 > AM > Holy Places > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples > etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi > Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is > concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > Best Regards, > Sriram >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in./trynew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 http://www.vekkaliammantemple.org/index.htm , Jyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddi wrote: > > Dear Narasimha, pranaams > > " There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest > who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the > Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before > and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine > Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. > I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started > meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of > a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that > there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the > goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a > hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably > knows the name of the temple and goddess. " > > The temple that you refer to is in Tiruchirappalli and is known as > Vek-Kali-Amman temple. By a coincidence, I was talking to my wife yesterday > about this temple where the sanctum sanctorum is without a roof. > > best regards > Hari > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvrwrote: > > > > > > >  Namaste, > > > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there > > will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. > > However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear > > depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. > > > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be > > filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that > > place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it > > becomes weak and disappears. > > > > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do > > not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to > > re-energize the idols > > > > * * * > > > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine > > presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, > > some not-so-well-known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. > > > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office > > is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai > > (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy > > in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically > > alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the > > Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at > > the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. > > > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest > > who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the > > Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before > > and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine > > Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. > > I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started > > meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of > > a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that > > there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the > > goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a > > hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably > > knows the name of the temple and goddess. > > > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence > > across India. > > > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences > > when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am > > sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber > > there. > > > > * * * > > > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a > > temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. > > There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. > > Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is > > that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really > > good. > > > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a > > temple, I suggest the following: > > > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, > > Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in > > south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in > > west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam > > and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. > > > > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a > > temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while > > maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or > > japam) there is quite another. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > . > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Namaste, A tasty almond may be surrounded by a hard shell. A sweet mango may have a bitter peel covering it. To enjoy the almond or mango, you have to remove the shell or peel and throw it away. Similarly, the external signs may be unpleasant, but they may just be hiding some pleasant energy. *Some* holy places where you can see rampant commercialism (e.g. priests harrassing people for money and not focusing attention on the pooja) or ignorant adherence to the letter of the customs while breaking the spirit (e.g. forceful feeding of cows like you mentioned) may still be filled with excellent spiritual energy that you can tap into if you do some spiritual sadhana there! > So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have > the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did " locals " who > have always been here, are getting corrupted. In some temples, the energy has indeed been dissipated already and there isn't much left. The daily rituals and periodic re-energization rituals are not working well because people doing them are not upto it. There are many temples like that. However, there are also temples where there is powerful energy left still. It does not of course mean that everyone near that temple must be saattwik or spiritually elevated. To a blind-folded person, there is no difference between day and night. Even when Sun is shining brightly, he cannot see anything. Similarly, a person whose vision is blind-folded by the dark cloth of tamas cannot see the divine light near him. * * * As you correctly pointed out, good people sometimes ignorantly adhere to the letter of a custom while breaking its spirit blatantly. An old astrologer once mentioned to me a griha pravesha (housewarming) ceremony he went to. It is believed that getting a cow inside a new house is an auspicious sign. So they rented a cow and got it inside the house. However, there were a few stairs to climb in order to get in and the cow was afraid to go up. They kept beating it agressively to force it to go up the stairs. That made this old astrologer very upset. Without any concern for propriety or diplomacy, he yelled at them for this unwise act, which was adharma in his view, and simply went out. Of course, they still persisted with their strategy and succeeded in finally getting the cow inside the house, thus following the recommendations of scriptures! Unfortunately, well-meaning people engage in wrong actions thinking them to be the right actions, as they do not understand the spirit of customs and blindly follow the letter of customs. Some religious activities of some people are based on fear, insecurity, greed etc, which are taamasik qualities, rather than love, compassion and surrender. That is the root of the problem. * * * BTW, Hari is correct. The temple I was thinking of is Vekkaali Amman temple near Tiruchirapally. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ---- Astro Seeker <astro.seeker wrote: > Namaste Narsimhaji, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did " locals " who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the period of time. > > I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain " Amavasya " . After taking bath, they started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their " Custom " . Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it. > > In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. As they are highly filled with Tamas now. > > Best Regards, > Sriram > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: > Namaste, > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in > a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick > completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes > to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was > burnt. > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, > the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the > saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger > there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. > > In many famous temples these days, priests have > become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed > every few years to re-energize the idols > > * > * * > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do > not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At > the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine > presence. > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple > in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and > Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a > tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples > where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did > not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in > Calcutta. > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was > taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu > before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that > temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of > the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not > understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes > and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a > vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt > that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess > likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I > was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the > name of the temple and goddess. > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a > powerful divine presence across India. > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one > of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at > Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the > underground chamber there. > > * > * * > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better > for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with > rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of > sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my > view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are > really good. > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing > spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east > India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and > Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, > Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan > and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in > central India. > > There are many other good places, but the above > come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for > several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual > sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. > > Best > regards, > Narasimha > > - > > Astro > Seeker > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 > AM > Holy Places > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples > etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi > Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is > concerned. Please share your views on this. > > Best Regards, > Sriram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Namaste, To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol. But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/creative/destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront? I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience. Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess. He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there? Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14Re: Re: Holy Places Date: Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM Namaste, In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Holy PlacesThursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM  Namaste, If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols * * * It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. * * * Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgJyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tingsSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Astro Seeker Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM Holy Places Respected Narsimhaji, I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. Best Regards, Sriram Try the new India Homepage. Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Rajarishi Ji Please treat these as just my thoughts.I am very much junior in both wisdom and scripturual knowledge. " To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? " The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation. In reality the underlying truth is there is a lot of contradiction ...but then the face of christianity you know today might not even be what it was originally. 1.The version of Christianity you know today is the one obtained after Ceasar forcibly burnt all the gnostic bibles and differing versions of truth .... 2.All upcomign historical evidence points to the fact that Christ had a wife by name Mary Magdalene.... Now Christianity condemns the very concept of sex as cardinal sin and assumes every human being is born in Sin. 3.In Kashmir there is still a place where they worship the padukas of christ when he visited Kashmir... History and Religion are written by the victors. Same is the case with Islam...If you open any authentic version of the holy book you will be surprised by some of the inconsistent verses which often smack of hate...of a world filled with Kafirs and Non beleivers and Explicit prohibition of Idol worship etc. It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. Hinduism also has deviated from the spirit of the vedas with corruptions entering into the practise of caste etc...but still is much better in preservation of the original meaning. Yogananda, Sivananda , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various saints including Srila Prabhupada when they entered the west in the early 1960's had the unenviable task of explaining some of the concepts in terms which the westerner could understand. The parallel imagery is what comes from that... If somebody could separate the chaff from the grain and read the books they will definetly reach salvation in those paths, if not it is much better to stick to Hinduism. I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. Regards VemparlaRamKishore , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > Namaste, >  > To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? >  > I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol. >  > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/creative/destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront? >  >  > I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming > joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience. >  > Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess.  He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. >  > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there?  Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all? >  >  > -Regards >  Rajarshi >  >  > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 > Re: Re: Holy Places > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM > > >  > > > Namaste, >  > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? >  > -Regards >  Rajarshi >  >  >  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> > Re: Holy Places > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM > > >  > >  > Namaste, >  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. >  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. >  > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       *       * >  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. >  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. >  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left > in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. >  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. >  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. >  > *       *       * >  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. >  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: >  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. >  > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. >  > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > - > Astro Seeker > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM > Holy Places > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > Best Regards, > Sriram >  > > > Try the new India Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail./connectmore > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Namaste Rajarshi, Your question reminds me of something the Mother (Sri Aurobindo) said on this subject during one of her talks with aspirants - I cannot remember where exactly but will try to find it later. Mother said that many temples today are filled with the negative energy of asuric beings from the lower planes, many of which are capable of causing harm to people. The reason, she said, is that many people today visit temples seeking fulfilment of short-term, material desires (wealth, health, marriage, children etc). They perform rituals and make offerings while harbouring such desires. Such tamasic and rajasic sentiments attract ill-intentioned beings from the vital plane to the place of worship. Therefore she said that one should be cautious about which temples one visits, especially if one is weak and susceptible to negative energies. And when one does visit, one should try one's hardest to do so with the spirit of complete surrender to *whatever* Divine presence is there (and without seeking to fulfil petty desires). So it may be that there is a risk. Best regards, Samir On 08/10/2009 17:54, rajarshi nandy wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it > possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does > Man create God, or God creates man? > > -Regards > Rajarshi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Dear Samir, You are very correct. Infact it was from one writing of Sri Aurobindo that I first got an idea that even a wrong pressence can come into an idol, though I am yet to recoincile it to the understanding I have about methods of worship. He goes to mention that many of the Kali idols often have a presence created by the worshipper which is Kali without being divine at all, a grotesque formation out of fear and other negative emotions of the worshipper. Such a being is of no help, and should not be worshipped. The actualy Mahakali, Aurobindo says, is splendid golden in color as he saw it. He said it is also becuase of wrong pranpratistha and priests who do not know how to do it etc. I find this information difficult to understand yet. I mean, if I am calling to Kali or any deity, is it not going to Kali - the divine one? What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am using the name Kali to address my prayers. There is only one who is Kali, and when I pray with Her name, I feel it should always go to that One. How can it reach any other being at all? Now imagine someone gets an image of Kali and prays to it with fear, insecurities etc and other negative emotional qualities, I can understand that these emotions - which are eventually an energy - may get lodged into the idol. But what power does that mass of emotion have? In my view nothing. Neither good not bad. Now say another person comes infornt of the idol and bows down and says a prayer to Kali, where is that going to reach? I believe - logically - it should reach the real Kali wherever She maybe and idol will, even though it has negative emtions lodged in it, will only play the part of symbol that makes one remember Kaali. This is how I look at it logically. If I am wrong, I would like to get corrected. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Fri, 9/10/09, Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: Samir Shah <solaris.smokeRe: Re: Holy Places Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 10:09 AM Namaste Rajarshi,Your question reminds me of something the Mother (Sri Aurobindo) said onthis subject during one of her talks with aspirants - I cannot rememberwhere exactly but will try to find it later.Mother said that many temples today are filled with the negative energyof asuric beings from the lower planes, many of which are capable ofcausing harm to people.The reason, she said, is that many people today visit temples seekingfulfilment of short-term, material desires (wealth, health, marriage,children etc). They perform rituals and make offerings while harbouringsuch desires. Such tamasic and rajasic sentiments attractill-intentioned beings from the vital plane to the place of worship.Therefore she said that one should be cautious about which temples onevisits, especially if one is weak and susceptible to negative energies.And when one does visit, one should try one's hardest to do so with thespirit of complete surrender to *whatever* Divine presence is there (andwithout seeking to fulfil petty desires).So it may be that there is a risk.Best regards,SamirOn 08/10/2009 17:54, rajarshi nandy wrote:> > > > Namaste,> > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it> possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does> Man create God, or God creates man?> > -Regards> Rajarshi> Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Dear Vemparlaramkishore Generally I agree with the spirit of your mail, though my personal opinion about different religions is more drastic than yours. For exmaple you mentioned: It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. In my analysis Muhammed, was not an avatar by any stretch of imagination. I consider him to a historical leader, like an Alexander or a Napoleon, and like all leaders he had the ability to go out there among the masses and get the job done. This is where leaders differ from arm-chair philosophers. But I am quite skeptical about Muhammed the "spiritual leader". In my analysis - and I have spend substantial time studying the Koran, aHadiths, various Tafsirs as well as the history of Islam - I found more politics than spirituality, right at the heart. However, this is not the right forum to go into a detailed discussion on this topic, so I stop here. The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation I find the ten commandment of Moses - the crux of Abrahamic religions - to be a supreme source of controversy and infact the very seed of fanaticsm is sown right inside there. I find studying the life of DÄrayavahuÅ¡ (Darius I of ancient Persia) to be of more value than the ten commandments. Not only as an emperor of one of the greatest empires in the world, but as a man of extreme sagacity and wisdom. Darius believed in Ahura Mazda. He said "Ahura Mazda is truth" and explained and understood this sentence of mean that anything which is true is Ahura Mazda. Instead, if he had made a statement that " Ahura Mazda is the ONLY truth" - he would have bred fanaticism. That is why he had no religio-philosophical conflicts in helping the Jews to built their second temple as well as the Egyptians to build a temple of Ra. His army contained Arabs, Hindus, Persians, Jews etc and all lived in perfect harmony - each with his own religious interpretations. That is why he is the only non-Jew who has been accorded a special status among the prophets of Jews in the Old Testament.He infact made it compulsory that every individual in his kingdom would undergo a training for few years on three things before he would be free and productive in society - horse riding, shooting arrows and telling the truth! As I see it, Darius did what Moses could not and he understood what Moses never could. I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. My suggestion would be, don't worry abt ruffling feathers. For too long we have chosen artificial ideas of political correctness and misconstrued secularism inplace of the truth. Maybe it is time to follow the truth as we see it, whereever it may lead us. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Fri, 9/10/09, vemparlaramkishore <vemparlaramkishore wrote: vemparlaramkishore <vemparlaramkishore Re: Holy Places Date: Friday, 9 October, 2009, 6:49 AM Rajarishi JiPlease treat these as just my thoughts.I am very much junior in both wisdom and scripturual knowledge."To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? "The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation. In reality the underlying truth is there is a lot of contradiction ...but then the face of christianity you know today might not even be what it was originally.1.The version of Christianity you know today is the one obtained after Ceasar forcibly burnt all the gnostic bibles and differing versions of truth ....2.All upcomign historical evidence points to the fact that Christ had a wife by name Mary Magdalene... .Now Christianity condemns the very concept of sex as cardinal sin and assumes every human being is born in Sin.3.In Kashmir there is still a place where they worship the padukas of christ when he visited Kashmir...History and Religion are written by the victors.Same is the case with Islam...If you open any authentic version of the holy book you will be surprised by some of the inconsistent verses which often smack of hate...of a world filled with Kafirs and Non beleivers and Explicit prohibition of Idol worship etc.It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages.Hinduism also has deviated from the spirit of the vedas with corruptions entering into the practise of caste etc...but still is much better in preservation of the original meaning.Yogananda, Sivananda , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various saints including Srila Prabhupada when they entered the west in the early 1960's had the unenviable task of explaining some of the concepts in terms which the westerner could understand. The parallel imagery is what comes from that...If somebody could separate the chaff from the grain and read the books they will definetly reach salvation in those paths, if not it is much better to stick to Hinduism.I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled.RegardsVemparlaRamKishore , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Namaste,>  > To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? >  > I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol.>  > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/ creative/ destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront?>  >  > I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming> joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience.>  > Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess.  He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple.>  > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there?  Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all?>  >  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:> > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...>> Re: Re: Holy Places> > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > > Namaste,>  > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man?>  > -Regards>  Rajarshi>  >  >  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:> > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>> Re: Holy Places> > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM> > >  > >  > Namaste,>  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt.>  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears.>  > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       *       *>  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence.>  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta.>  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left> in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess.>  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India.>  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there.>  > *       *       *>  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good.>  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following:>  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India.>  > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another.>  > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > - > Astro Seeker > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM> Holy Places> > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this.> > > Best Regards,> Sriram>  > > > Try the new India Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore> Try the new India Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Dear Rajarshi, >though my personal opinion about different religions is more >drastic than yours. >don't worry abt ruffling feathers. For too long we have chosen >artificial ideas of political correctness and misconstrued >secularism inplace of the truth Very well said. If feathers are ruffled, so be it!!! but it is a time to come out of the so called *Secular attitude* which is nothing but beating around the bush. by the way, you must have read Naren's opinion on Mohammed's spiritual level in his great work - 'Rajayoga'. Warm Regards, Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > Dear Vemparlaramkishore >  > Generally I agree with the spirit of your mail, though my personal opinion about different religions is more drastic than yours. >  > For exmaple you mentioned: >  >  > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. >  > In my analysis Muhammed, was not an avatar by any stretch of imagination. I consider him to a historical leader, like an Alexander or a Napoleon, and like all leaders he had the ability to go out there among the masses and get the job done. This is where leaders differ from arm-chair philosophers. But I am quite skeptical about Muhammed the " spiritual leader " .  In my analysis - and I have spend substantial time studying the Koran, aHadiths, various Tafsirs as well as the history of Islam - I found more politics than spirituality, right at the heart. However, this is not the right forum to go into a detailed discussion on this topic, so I stop here. >  >  > The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation >  >  > I find the ten commandment of Moses - the crux of Abrahamic religions - to be a supreme source of controversy and infact the very seed of fanaticsm is sown right inside there. >  > I find studying the life of DÄrayavahuÅ¡ (Darius I of ancient Persia) to be of more value than the ten commandments. Not only as an emperor of one of the greatest empires in the world, but as a man of extreme sagacity and wisdom. Darius believed in Ahura Mazda. He said " Ahura Mazda is truth " and explained and understood this sentence of mean that anything which is true is Ahura Mazda. Instead, if he had made a statement that " Ahura Mazda is the ONLY truth " - he would have bred fanaticism. That is why he had no religio-philosophical conflicts in helping the Jews to built their second temple as well as the Egyptians to build a temple of Ra. His army contained Arabs, Hindus, Persians, Jews etc and all lived in perfect harmony - each with his own religious interpretations. That is why he is the only non-Jew who has been accorded a special status among the prophets of Jews in the Old Testament.He infact made it compulsory that every individual in his > kingdom would undergo a training for few years on three things before he would be free and productive in society - horse riding, shooting arrows and telling the truth! >  >  As I see it, Darius did what Moses could not and he understood what Moses never could. >  >  > I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. >  > My suggestion would be, don't worry abt ruffling feathers. For too long we have chosen artificial ideas of political correctness and misconstrued secularism inplace of the truth. Maybe it is time to follow the truth as we see it, whereever it may lead us. >  > -Regards >  Rajarshi > > > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Fri, 9/10/09, vemparlaramkishore <vemparlaramkishore wrote: > > > vemparlaramkishore <vemparlaramkishore > Re: Holy Places > > Friday, 9 October, 2009, 6:49 AM > > >  > > > > Rajarishi Ji > > Please treat these as just my thoughts.I am very much junior in both wisdom and scripturual knowledge. > > " To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? " > > The Abrahamic faiths also do not beleive in Reincarnation. In reality the underlying truth is there is a lot of contradiction ...but then the face of christianity you know today might not even be what it was originally. > > 1.The version of Christianity you know today is the one obtained after Ceasar forcibly burnt all the gnostic bibles and differing versions of truth .... > > 2.All upcomign historical evidence points to the fact that Christ had a wife by name Mary Magdalene... . > > Now Christianity condemns the very concept of sex as cardinal sin and assumes every human being is born in Sin. > > 3.In Kashmir there is still a place where they worship the padukas of christ when he visited Kashmir... > > History and Religion are written by the victors. > > Same is the case with Islam...If you open any authentic version of the holy book you will be surprised by some of the inconsistent verses which often smack of hate...of a world filled with Kafirs and Non beleivers and Explicit prohibition of Idol worship etc. > > It is my humble opinion that the Avatars of Christ and Mohammed came to atleast steer the western continent towards a little dharma. The modern day versions of both these faiths have deviated much from the original messages. > > Hinduism also has deviated from the spirit of the vedas with corruptions entering into the practise of caste etc...but still is much better in preservation of the original meaning. > > Yogananda, Sivananda , Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various saints including Srila Prabhupada when they entered the west in the early 1960's had the unenviable task of explaining some of the concepts in terms which the westerner could understand. The parallel imagery is what comes from that... > > If somebody could separate the chaff from the grain and read the books they will definetly reach salvation in those paths, if not it is much better to stick to Hinduism. > > I apologize beforehand if any feathers are ruffled. > > Regards > VemparlaRamKishore > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > >  > > To add to my query, a good number of religions explicitly prohibit idol worship. If the underlying truth is one, how can it be so contradictory? > >  > > I can understand that a Idol may contain a presence created by human imagination which maynot have a divine link. Not everybody is a Ramakrishna who can actually call Mahakali into an Idol. > >  > > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/ creative/ destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is reaching God, is it not enough? After all God is finally tax collecter of prayers. Does not all prayer finally reach God, irrespective of whether a divine presence is there or not there infront? > >  > >  > > I would like to mention a small incident here about someone I know well. There was a certain individual, who whenever he would go to Calcutta. he would take time out to go and meditate in the hall infornt of the idol at the Kaalighat temple. Once he reached the temple around 8 pm and sat there trying to mediate for about 2 hours. His mind suddenly became very focused, he *thought* he saw some deep blue lights (probably just his imagination) - but there was a distinct feeling of great joy in him. His mind become without thoughts as if there was no worry in the whole world, everything was perfect. Also a strong, sanguine feeling came into him that he needed to worship the Goddess. As he came out he found that his shoes were missing, so he walked more than a kilometer distance bare feet though an extremely dirty road but all he felt was a deep joy. Nothing was actually registering > in his mind that night, except for an overwhelming > > joy, as he said later on. Bottomline: a nice spiritual experience. > >  > > Some months later he ended up meeting a very spiritual person who instructed him about worshipping the Goddess.  He strongly believes that night at the temple and his meeting with the person was related. Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. > >  > > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there?  Does it mean that finally it is only the devotion of the devotee which counts for spiritual energy inside a temple, irrespective of whether the idol has any energy at all? > >  > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > > > >  > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> > > Re: Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:24 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > >  > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? > >  > > -Regards > >  Rajarshi > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: > > > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> > > Re: Holy Places > > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM > > > > > >  > > > >  > > Namaste, > >  > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. > >  > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. > >  > > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. > >  > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. > >  > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and > left > > in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. > >  > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. > >  > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. > >  > > *       *       * > >  > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. > >  > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: > >  > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. > >  > > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. > >  > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > - > > Astro Seeker > > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM > > Holy Places > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > Sriram > >  > > > > > > Try the new India Homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cricket scores to your friends. Try the India Homepage! http://in./trynew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Dear Rajarshi and Sameer, I am not able to digest what Maharshi Aurobindo has said about Kali. It is contradicting Thakur's views about the Kali and my own thinking. >What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am >using the name Kali to address my prayers Yes. I have always carried words of Thakur in my heart. one of the greatest words which were spoken to M during his second meeting with him. extending that spirit, If Kali is sincerely prayed, will she not know? SHE is every where. isn't it. so in one sense, Idol becomes redundant however it has a purpose that it reminds one of Kali in a more effective way. what do you say? Sameer also said nice thing. If going to Holy places, do not pray for worldly desire. try hard to refrain from them and then what negative energies can do? sorry to butt in. Warm Regards Utpal , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > Dear Samir, > > You are very correct. Infact it was from one writing of Sri Aurobindo that I first got an idea that even a wrong pressence can come into an idol, though I am yet to recoincile it to the understanding I have about methods of worship. He goes to mention that many of the Kali idols often have a presence created by the worshipper which is Kali without being divine at all, a grotesque formation out of fear and other negative emotions of the worshipper. Such a being is of no help, and should not be worshipped. The actualy Mahakali, Aurobindo says, is splendid golden in color as he saw it. He said it is also becuase of wrong pranpratistha and priests who do not know how to do it etc. > > > I find this information difficult to understand yet. I mean, if I am calling to Kali or any deity, is it not going to Kali - the divine one? What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am using the name Kali to address my prayers. There is only one who is Kali, and when I pray with Her name, I feel it should always go to that One. How can it reach any other being at all? > > Now imagine someone gets an image of Kali and prays to it with fear, insecurities etc and other negative emotional qualities, I can understand that these emotions - which are eventually an energy - may get lodged into the idol. But what power does that mass of emotion have? In my view nothing. Neither good not bad. Now say another person comes infornt of the idol and bows down and says a prayer to Kali, where is that going to reach? I believe - logically - it should reach the real Kali wherever She maybe and idol will, even though it has negative emtions lodged in it, will only play the part of symbol that makes one remember Kaali. > > This is how I look at it logically. If I am wrong, I would like to get corrected. > > -Regards > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Fri, 9/10/09, Samir Shah <solaris.smoke wrote: > > > Samir Shah <solaris.smoke > Re: Re: Holy Places > > Friday, 9 October, 2009, 10:09 AM > > > > > > > Namaste Rajarshi, > > Your question reminds me of something the Mother (Sri Aurobindo) said on > this subject during one of her talks with aspirants - I cannot remember > where exactly but will try to find it later. > > Mother said that many temples today are filled with the negative energy > of asuric beings from the lower planes, many of which are capable of > causing harm to people. > > The reason, she said, is that many people today visit temples seeking > fulfilment of short-term, material desires (wealth, health, marriage, > children etc). They perform rituals and make offerings while harbouring > such desires. Such tamasic and rajasic sentiments attract > ill-intentioned beings from the vital plane to the place of worship. > > Therefore she said that one should be cautious about which temples one > visits, especially if one is weak and susceptible to negative energies. > And when one does visit, one should try one's hardest to do so with the > spirit of complete surrender to *whatever* Divine presence is there (and > without seeking to fulfil petty desires). > > So it may be that there is a risk. > > Best regards, > > Samir > > On 08/10/2009 17:54, rajarshi nandy wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it > > possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does > > Man create God, or God creates man? > > > > -Regards > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, send attachments up to 25MB with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail./photos > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Namaste Utpal, With reference to Kali, here is what Sri Aurobindo wrote (taken from Letters on Yoga): > Mahakali and Kali are not the same. Kali is a lesser form. Mahakali > in the higher planes appears usually with the golden colour. On Kali, he says with such eloquence (from Essays on the Gita): > It is only a few religions which have had the courage to say without > any reserve, like the Indian, that this enigmatic World-Power is one > Deity, one Trinity, to lift up the image of the Force that acts in > the world in the figure not only of the beneficent Durga, but of the > terrible Kali in her blood-stained dance of destruction and to say, > " This too is the Mother; this also know to be God; this too, if thou > hast the strength, adore. " And it is significant that the religion > which has had this unflinching honesty and tremendous courage, has > succeeded in creating a profound and wide-spread spirituality such as > no other can parallel. For truth is the foundation of real > spirituality and courage is its soul. /Tasyai satyam Ayatanam/. So I think there need not be a contradiction with the teachings of Ramakrishna. Best regards, Samir On 09/10/2009 13:18, vedic_pathak wrote: > Dear Rajarshi and Sameer, > > I am not able to digest what Maharshi Aurobindo has said about Kali. > It is contradicting Thakur's views about the Kali and my own > thinking. > >> What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am >> >using the name Kali to address my prayers > > Yes. I have always carried words of Thakur in my heart. one of the > greatest words which were spoken to M during his second meeting with > him. extending that spirit, If Kali is sincerely prayed, will she not > know? SHE is every where. isn't it. so in one sense, Idol becomes > redundant however it has a purpose that it reminds one of Kali in a > more effective way. > > what do you say? > > Sameer also said nice thing. If going to Holy places, do not pray for > worldly desire. try hard to refrain from them and then what negative > energies can do? > > sorry to butt in. > > Warm Regards > > Utpal > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Respected UtpaljiWhatever you say is absolutely correct and have experienced the same .As i live in kolkata i am very much acquainted with Kalighat and Dakshineswar temples.There too the pandas or priests are terribleif not all the majority of them. I think u can feel the spirituality in a way that i have found very effective.The method is after your performance of all regular rituals and offerings are completed just unblinkingly gaze the face of the idol then slowly focus at the eyes i am sure you can feel something.You can do your gazing even from far off but give time i mean it can happen in 1 min or it can take 5 or maybe 10 mins.I am definite u will feel the vibrations.While focusing try to look for the expression in the face(i mean all smiles are not happy smiles).U will come to know whether the puja is going in a good way i mean a way in which the deity wants or not(HE or SHE is satisfied or not). The same technique applies to the deities in your home too you start watching them daily u will fell their facial expression changes.Some day you find something not good in their face think about the puja you had done or ur own daily activities on that day u will get the answer frnd. I dont know whether i can make u understand what i want to mean but i have tried myself hard to express myself in words. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:01 PM, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: Namaste, Holy places - i am thinking about how to decide if a certain place has good spiritual vibrations or not? Whenever i see writings from Narasimha or from others which talks about spiritual vibrations, i wonder! If it's a feel good factor within or without? If we go to the famous temples of India today, it is almost sure that one will find lot of crowd and resultant noise, gossips, business, cheating, discrimination etc... etc... can that be criteria for judging the spiritual energy of the place? my two distinct experiences (external): 1) i went to Jagannath Puri in year year 95. when i entered to take Darshan of all the 3 famous idols, i was shocked by the dogmatic behavior of the Pandas standing there near the Idols. they almost commanded me to put some money in front of the Idol. one can imagine my condition. Instead of focusing on the lord, i was angry at them and refused to oblige. 2) Once we (group of friends) went to 'Mota Ambaji' (in Gujarat near Mount Abu). one shopkeeper (who sales pujan saamagri) just at the entrance of the famous temple, gave us all the puja material in a plate. We made a mistake by not asking him price. After we came back from the temple, he asked us to pay around 1500 Rs per plate. can anybody imagine such price?. we have to bargain so much with him that after that i hardly buy such puja saamgri whenever i go to any temple. for instance if i go to MahaLakshmi Temple of Mumbai, i'll take 3 lotuses to offer Mahakaali-Mahalakshmi-MahaSaraswati and that is all. However I must say that the above two bad experiences did not discourage me. Such things as well as few other things like General atmosphere, crowd, noise, beggars, dirt, etc… are external things IMHO. There is also spiritual energy generated by many many pure hearted visitors. Warm regards, Utpal , Astro Seeker <astro.seeker wrote: > > Namaste Narsimhaji, > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did " locals " who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the period of time. > > I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain " Amavasya " . After taking bath, they started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their " Custom " . Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it. > > In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. As they are highly filled with Tamas now. > > Best Regards, > Sriram > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr > Re: Holy Places > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 2:41 AM > > > > > > >  > > > > > >  > > > Namaste, >  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in > a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick > completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes > to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was > burnt. >  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, > the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the > saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger > there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. >  > In many famous temples these days, priests have > become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed > every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       > *       * >  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do > not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At > the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine > presence. >  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple > in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and > Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a > tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples > where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did > not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in > Calcutta. >  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was > taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu > before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that > temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of > the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not > understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes > and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a > vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt > that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess > likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I > was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the > name of the temple and goddess. >  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a > powerful divine presence across India. >  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one > of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at > Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the > underground chamber there. >  > *       > *       * >  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better > for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with > rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of > sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my > view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are > really good. >  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing > spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: >  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east > India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and > Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, > Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan > and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in > central India. >  > There are many other good places, but the above > come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for > several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual > sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. >  > Best > regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do > a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do > Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free > Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free > Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Jyotish > writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > - > > Astro > Seeker > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 > AM > Holy Places > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples > etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi > Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is > concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > Best Regards, > Sriram >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in./trynew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Namaste Rajarshi, >> Does Man create God, or God creates man? Man *can* create God only because God created himself as Man (infact as the entire Existence itself) :-) , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > > Namaste, >  > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does Man create God, or God creates man? >  > -Regards >  Rajarshi >  >  >  >  >  >  > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr > Re: Holy Places > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 8:11 AM > > >  > > > >  > Namaste, >  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt. >  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. >  > In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       *       * >  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence. >  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta. >  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left > in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess. >  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India. >  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there. >  > *       *       * >  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good. >  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: >  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India. >  > There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. >  > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > - > Astro Seeker > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM > Holy Places > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > Best Regards, > Sriram >  > > > > > > > > > Add whatever you love to the India homepage. Try now! http://in./trynew > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Rajarishi Ji and Uptal Ji Many thanks for sharing your views. I absolutely agree , just did not want to put it strongly.But you guys have given me confidence to speak without fear. Also the Concept of Asura which you recently mentioned is one of the topics of research by a few historians on the connections between the Fire worshippers of Iran and Atharvans of India ...the imagery gets reversed , the asuras are the gods and daievas according to them take the place of the daityas. Soma becomes Hauma.... In general S gets replaced with H and so on and so forth. ( I do not beleive in the false Aryan Invasion theory which finally died its death by Genetic Proof of Stephen Oppenheimer of a million subcontinent gene samples proving a route out of africa to South India and then migration out ) Now as far as the discussion on Wrong Presense coming into a Idol and Original MahaKali being Golden Splendour in colour.I think Aurobindo is saying the truth. The below link by Yoga of Sri Chinmoy Glimpses From The Vedas And The Upanishads http://www.yogaofsrichinmoy.com/yoga/vedasupanishads Agni, fire, expresses itself in seven forms and it has seven significant inner names: Kali the black; Karali the terrible, Manojava, thought-swift; Sulohita blood-red; Sudhumravarna, smoke-hued; Sphulingini, scattering sparks; Visvaruci, the all-beautiful. Kali, the black, is not actually black. Kali is the divine force or fire within us which fights against undivine hostile forces. Mother Kali fights against demons in the battlefield of life. In the vital plane we see Her as a dark, tenebrous Goddess but, in the highest plane of consciousness, She is golden. Regards RamKishore , " vedic_pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote: > > Dear Rajarshi and Sameer, > > I am not able to digest what Maharshi Aurobindo has said about Kali. > It is contradicting Thakur's views about the Kali and my own thinking. > > >What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am >using the name Kali to address my prayers > > Yes. I have always carried words of Thakur in my heart. one of the greatest words which were spoken to M during his second meeting with him. extending that spirit, If Kali is sincerely prayed, will she not know? SHE is every where. isn't it. so in one sense, Idol becomes redundant however it has a purpose that it reminds one of Kali in a more effective way. > > what do you say? > > Sameer also said nice thing. If going to Holy places, do not pray for worldly desire. try hard to refrain from them and then what negative energies can do? > > sorry to butt in. > > Warm Regards > > Utpal > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> wrote: > > > > Dear Samir, > > > > You are very correct. Infact it was from one writing of Sri Aurobindo that I first got an idea that even a wrong pressence can come into an idol, though I am yet to recoincile it to the understanding I have about methods of worship. He goes to mention that many of the Kali idols often have a presence created by the worshipper which is Kali without being divine at all, a grotesque formation out of fear and other negative emotions of the worshipper. Such a being is of no help, and should not be worshipped. The actualy Mahakali, Aurobindo says, is splendid golden in color as he saw it. He said it is also becuase of wrong pranpratistha and priests who do not know how to do it etc. > > > > > > I find this information difficult to understand yet. I mean, if I am calling to Kali or any deity, is it not going to Kali - the divine one? What does it matter how the pranpratistha has been done, if I am using the name Kali to address my prayers. There is only one who is Kali, and when I pray with Her name, I feel it should always go to that One. How can it reach any other being at all? > > > > Now imagine someone gets an image of Kali and prays to it with fear, insecurities etc and other negative emotional qualities, I can understand that these emotions - which are eventually an energy - may get lodged into the idol. But what power does that mass of emotion have? In my view nothing. Neither good not bad. Now say another person comes infornt of the idol and bows down and says a prayer to Kali, where is that going to reach? I believe - logically - it should reach the real Kali wherever She maybe and idol will, even though it has negative emtions lodged in it, will only play the part of symbol that makes one remember Kaali. > > > > This is how I look at it logically. If I am wrong, I would like to get corrected. > > > > -Regards > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Fri, 9/10/09, Samir Shah <solaris.smoke@> wrote: > > > > > > Samir Shah <solaris.smoke@> > > Re: Re: Holy Places > > > > Friday, 9 October, 2009, 10:09 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Rajarshi, > > > > Your question reminds me of something the Mother (Sri Aurobindo) said on > > this subject during one of her talks with aspirants - I cannot remember > > where exactly but will try to find it later. > > > > Mother said that many temples today are filled with the negative energy > > of asuric beings from the lower planes, many of which are capable of > > causing harm to people. > > > > The reason, she said, is that many people today visit temples seeking > > fulfilment of short-term, material desires (wealth, health, marriage, > > children etc). They perform rituals and make offerings while harbouring > > such desires. Such tamasic and rajasic sentiments attract > > ill-intentioned beings from the vital plane to the place of worship. > > > > Therefore she said that one should be cautious about which temples one > > visits, especially if one is weak and susceptible to negative energies. > > And when one does visit, one should try one's hardest to do so with the > > spirit of complete surrender to *whatever* Divine presence is there (and > > without seeking to fulfil petty desires). > > > > So it may be that there is a risk. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Samir > > > > On 08/10/2009 17:54, rajarshi nandy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > In this context of divine pressence, is Idol worship risky? Is it > > > possible for an incorrect manifestation to be present in the idol? Does > > > Man create God, or God creates man? > > > > > > -Regards > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, send attachments up to 25MB with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail./photos > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Namaste Krish Bhai, >I dont know whether i can make u understand what i want to mean but >i have tried myself hard to express myself in words. No need to worry about expressions. i mention Narasimha's inspiring words for the benefit of all. [Don't worry about mundane things like respect, disrespect, silliness, smartness, eloquence, disorganized writings etc. We are not here to impress anyone, including our gurus or sishyas. We are here to do sadhana, become pure, realize our mission, finish the mission and then give up the body.] the above words says it all. I understood completely what you said in your message. That also may be one way to get the feel if one has developed the faith that Idol is not mere lifeless structure but a real god. a personalnote: you stay in Kolkata and i wish to visit that place again, atleast one more time. i stayed in Rorkela for 2 years during 95 & 96. i visited Kolkata a couple of times during those 2 years but at that time i had no idea of dakshineshwar. i sometime regret that i wasn't aware of Thakur's abode or else i would have had visited that place so many times. now there lies a wish to visit an only holy place and that is Dakshineshwar. i wish to see and feel the entire area where Tahkur and his disciples played a divine drama. best Regards, Utpal , krish chaudhuri <krishnenduchdhr wrote: > > Respected Utpalji > Whatever you say is absolutely correct and have experienced the same .As i > live in kolkata i am very much acquainted with Kalighat and Dakshineswar > temples.There too the pandas or priests are terribleif not all the majority > of them. > I think u can feel the spirituality in a way that i have found very > effective.The method is after your performance of all regular rituals and > offerings are completed just unblinkingly gaze the face of the idol then > slowly focus at the eyes i am sure you can feel something.You can do your > gazing even from far off but give time i mean it can happen in 1 min or it > can take 5 or maybe 10 mins.I am definite u will feel the vibrations.While > focusing try to look for the expression in the face(i mean all smiles are > not happy smiles).U will come to know whether the puja is going in a good > way i mean a way in which the deity wants or not(HE or SHE is satisfied or > not). > The same technique applies to the deities in your home too you start > watching them daily u will fell their facial expression changes.Some day you > find something not good in their face think about the puja you had done or > ur own daily activities on that day u will get the answer frnd. > I dont know whether i can make u understand what i want to mean but i have > tried myself hard to express myself in words. > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:01 PM, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathakwrote: > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > Holy places - i am thinking about how to decide if a certain place has good > > spiritual vibrations or not? Whenever i see writings from Narasimha or from > > others which talks about spiritual vibrations, i wonder! If it's a feel good > > factor within or without? > > > > If we go to the famous temples of India today, it is almost sure that one > > will find lot of crowd and resultant noise, gossips, business, cheating, > > discrimination etc... etc... > > can that be criteria for judging the spiritual energy of the place? > > > > my two distinct experiences (external): > > 1) i went to Jagannath Puri in year year 95. when i entered to take Darshan > > of all the 3 famous idols, i was shocked by the dogmatic behavior of the > > Pandas standing there near the Idols. they almost commanded me to put some > > money in front of the Idol. one can imagine my condition. Instead of > > focusing on the lord, i was angry at them and refused to oblige. > > > > 2) Once we (group of friends) went to 'Mota Ambaji' (in Gujarat near Mount > > Abu). one shopkeeper (who sales pujan saamagri) just at the entrance of the > > famous temple, gave us all the puja material in a plate. We made a mistake > > by not asking him price. After we came back from the temple, he asked us to > > pay around 1500 Rs per plate. can anybody imagine such price?. we have to > > bargain so much with him that after that i hardly buy such puja saamgri > > whenever i go to any temple. for instance if i go to MahaLakshmi Temple of > > Mumbai, i'll take 3 lotuses to offer Mahakaali-Mahalakshmi-MahaSaraswati and > > that is all. > > > > However I must say that the above two bad experiences did not discourage > > me. > > > > Such things as well as few other things like General atmosphere, crowd, > > noise, beggars, dirt, etc… are external things IMHO. There is also spiritual > > energy generated by many many pure hearted visitors. > > > > Warm regards, > > > > Utpal > > > > > > <%40>, > > Astro Seeker <astro.seeker@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Narsimhaji, > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. > > Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 > > from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I > > could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there > > including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to > > find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main > > building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places > > would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these > > famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, > > then why did " locals " who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, > > then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have > > overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the > > period of time. > > > > > > I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was > > in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain " Amavasya " . After taking bath, they > > started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or > > unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. > > But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And > > per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their > > " Custom " . Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already > > had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food > > poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, > > but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it. > > > > > > In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it > > spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen > > to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep > > whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. > > As they are highly filled with Tamas now. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Sriram > > > > > > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@> > > > Re: Holy Places > > > <%40> > > > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 2:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > >  > > > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in > > > a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the > > stick > > > completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it > > takes > > > to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was > > > burnt. > > >  > > > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, > > > the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even > > after the > > > saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will > > linger > > > there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears. > > >  > > > In many famous temples these days, priests have > > > become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals > > performed > > > every few years to re-energize the idols > > >  > > > *       > > > *       * > > >  > > > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do > > > not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any > > names. At > > > the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful > > divine > > > presence. > > >  > > > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple > > > in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and > > > Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a > > > > > tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several > > temples > > > where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . > > I did > > > not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also > > in > > > Calcutta. > > >  > > > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was > > > taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil > > Nadu > > > before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of > > that > > > temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of > > > > > the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not > > > understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my > > eyes > > > and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled > > by a > > > vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I > > felt > > > that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not > > remember the > > > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over > > the > > > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the > > roof > > > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the > > goddess > > > likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a > > hurry, I > > > was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows > > the > > > name of the temple and goddess. > > >  > > > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a > > > powerful divine presence across India. > > >  > > > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one > > > of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple > > at > > > Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating > > in the > > > underground chamber there. > > >  > > > *       > > > *       * > > >  > > > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better > > > for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so > > filled with > > > rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount > > of > > > sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, > > but my > > > view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples > > are > > > really good. > > >  > > > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing > > > spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following: > > >  > > > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east > > > India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and > > > Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, > > > Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, > > Vrindavan > > > and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain > > in > > > central India. > > >  > > > There are many other good places, but the above > > > come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there > > for > > > several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual > > > > > sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another. > > >  > > > > > Best > > > regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Do > > > a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > Do > > > Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > Spirituality: > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Free > > > Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > Free > > > Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Jyotish > > > writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > Sri > > > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Astro > > > Seeker > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 > > > AM > > > Holy Places > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji, > > > > > > > > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples > > > etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi > > > Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is > > > concerned. Please share your views on this. > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Sriram > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek > > http://in./trynew > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Utpal Bhai and others Namaskar I have often had the same feeling when I visit temples and fail to find any 'stirrings of heart/mind'. Some places where I have often found less people and were less 'prasiddha' I have found that serenity and joy. Some exceptions for me were the temple for Rahu among the famous Navagraha temples around Kumbakonam and the Lakshmi Narasimha Temple in Namakkal near the Namakkal Anjaneyar. The Mahalakshmi here is called the Namagiri Lakshmi and the deity, Lakshmi Narasimhar is so vibrant that I could feel strong vibrations and energy fields whenever I visited the temple ( almost once in a year while I was in India) The palms of Swami are also red tinged from the blood of Hiranyakasipu as per sthala purana. The Rahu temple I always can smell strong flower especially Mogali (or tazhampoo as it is called in Tamil) scents when I visited the temple at night. The Girikuchambal sannidhi depicts 'sachaamara ramaavanee sevitha' form of Mother. There is also a sannidhi of Piriyani nayaki where I recollect that on Ashtami day the rays of chandra fall exactly into her sannidhi, I think at her feet. I have forgotten the details. The whole temple for me has very strong vibrations and I could feel them and though sometimes I have been late to other Navagraha temples around the Kumbakonam, I have always reached here just as there is either the afternoon or the night puja before closing. I do not know but I have a strange affinity to this temple, Namakkal Lakshmi Narasimha Swamy temple and Mantralayam. I also do not know why any aspect of Her is to be feared??? Even at her most fierce she is the most benevolent Mother who would never harm Her child. I have always felt even the 'destructive' aspect full of love and can never imagine My Mother harm or frighten me. But there have been instances when people have experienced 'negative energies' in homes and places of worship. We have in our teens lived in a house (our own) which had many pictures of Gods and Goddesses, infact a separate room for puja and my mother has always been a very spiritual person. I have experienced negative vibrations in that house for years and it was with great difficulty that we sold that house . I still cannot fathom how in a house where there is regular pooja, homams and prayers that negative energy could still exist. It is still not very clear to me after decades. Apologies as I have digressed a little.. Kind regards Nalini krish chaudhuri <krishnenduchdhr Sent: Sat, October 10, 2009 1:00:18 AMRe: Re: Holy Places Respected Utpalji Whatever you say is absolutely correct and have experienced the same .As i live in kolkata i am very much acquainted with Kalighat and Dakshineswar temples.There too the pandas or priests are terribleif not all the majority of them. I think u can feel the spirituality in a way that i have found very effective.The method is after your performance of all regular rituals and offerings are completed just unblinkingly gaze the face of the idol then slowly focus at the eyes i am sure you can feel something.You can do your gazing even from far off but give time i mean it can happen in 1 min or it can take 5 or maybe 10 mins.I am definite u will feel the vibrations.While focusing try to look for the expression in the face(i mean all smiles are not happy smiles).U will come to know whether the puja is going in a good way i mean a way in which the deity wants or not(HE or SHE is satisfied or not). The same technique applies to the deities in your home too you start watching them daily u will fell their facial expression changes.Some day you find something not good in their face think about the puja you had done or ur own daily activities on that day u will get the answer frnd. I dont know whether i can make u understand what i want to mean but i have tried myself hard to express myself in words. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:01 PM, vedic_pathak <vedic_pathak@ > wrote: Namaste,Holy places - i am thinking about how to decide if a certain place has good spiritual vibrations or not? Whenever i see writings from Narasimha or from others which talks about spiritual vibrations, i wonder! If it's a feel good factor within or without?If we go to the famous temples of India today, it is almost sure that one will find lot of crowd and resultant noise, gossips, business, cheating, discrimination etc... etc...can that be criteria for judging the spiritual energy of the place?my two distinct experiences (external):1) i went to Jagannath Puri in year year 95. when i entered to take Darshan of all the 3 famous idols, i was shocked by the dogmatic behavior of the Pandas standing there near the Idols. they almost commanded me to put some money in front of the Idol. one can imagine my condition. Instead of focusing on the lord, i was angry at them and refused to oblige.2) Once we (group of friends) went to 'Mota Ambaji' (in Gujarat near Mount Abu). one shopkeeper (who sales pujan saamagri) just at the entrance of the famous temple, gave us all the puja material in a plate. We made a mistake by not asking him price. After we came back from the temple, he asked us to pay around 1500 Rs per plate. can anybody imagine such price?. we have to bargain so much with him that after that i hardly buy such puja saamgri whenever i go to any temple. for instance if i go to MahaLakshmi Temple of Mumbai, i'll take 3 lotuses to offer Mahakaali-Mahalaksh mi-MahaSaraswati and that is all.However I must say that the above two bad experiences did not discourage me.Such things as well as few other things like General atmosphere, crowd, noise, beggars, dirt, etc… are external things IMHO. There is also spiritual energy generated by many many pure hearted visitors.Warm regards,Utpal , Astro Seeker <astro.seeker@ ...> wrote:>> Namaste Narsimhaji,> > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They have helped me a lot on the query. Actually, I recently visited few (not to name any but also including 1 or 2 from your list) places with my parents. But, my experience was really bad. I could see lot of commercialism and greed invloved amongst everyone there including those in position over there. And spiritualism was difficult to find. I could feel spiritual vibes more outside (slightly away from the main building and crows) the temples than inside. And to my believe, these places would not have been like this always. So, I kept wondering, that if these famous and energised idols have the power to raise the spiritual energies, then why did "locals" who have always been here, are getting corrupted. But, then probably the tamas energies of people coming day in and out have overpowered or as you say visitors have made the incense disappear over the period of time.> > I have one experience to share, which is somewhat on similar lines. I was in Hardiwar with my parents on a certain "Amavasya". After taking bath, they started looking for a cow to feed as per the custom. Fortunately or unfortunately, we could found a few (around 10) sitting at a certain place. But, they were surrounded by some 1000 odd people trying to feed them. And per my estimate a 10000 people would have already fed them per their "Custom". Now, does it really make sense to forcibly feed a cow who already had her quota of 3-4 days, probably leading her to have digestion or food poisoning problems. I tried to convince my parents not to try to feed the, but could not succeed. And the whole day felt bad about it.> > In general, whatever holy place I have visited, I have hardly found it spiritual enough and have mostly felt disappointed. Rather, I always happen to see plentiful cases of useless greed which make me feel that to keep whatever goodness is left in one, he or she should never visit these places. As they are highly filled with Tamas now.> > Best Regards,> Sriram> > --- On Thu, 8/10/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:> > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr > Re: Holy Places> > Thursday, 8 October, 2009, 2:41 AM> > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > Namaste,>  > If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in > a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick > completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes > to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was > burnt.>  > Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, > the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the > saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger > there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears.>  > In many famous temples these days, priests have > become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed > every few years to re-energize the idols >  > *       > *       *>  > It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do > not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At > the same time, some not-so-well- known temples seem to have a powerful divine > presence.>  > I was very impressed with the Krishna temple > in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and > Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a > tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples > where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is "alive". I did > not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in > Calcutta.>  > There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was > taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu > before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that > temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of > the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not > understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes > and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a > vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt > that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the > name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the > goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof > came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess > likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I > was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the > name of the temple and goddess.>  > Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a > powerful divine presence across India.>  > Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one > of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at > Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the > underground chamber there.>  > *       > *       *>  > Even the middle of a busy road in India is better > for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with > rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of > sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my > view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are > really good.>  > If one has a chance to spend a few months doing > spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following:>  > Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east > India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and > Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, > Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan > and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in > central India.>  > There are many other good places, but the above > come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for > several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual > sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another.>  > Best > regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Do > a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do > Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free > Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free > Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Jyotish > writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings> Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > - > > Astro > Seeker > > > Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 > AM> Holy Places> > > > > > Respected Narsimhaji,> > > I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples > etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi > Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is > concerned. Please share your views on this.> > > Best Regards,> Sriram>  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in.. com/trynew> Need mail bonding? Bring all your contacts to Xtra with TrueSwitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009  Dear Rajarshi, Before I answer your main question, I want to address the following: > Interestingly, even that spiritual person told him that there is probably > no divine presence inside the idol at Kaalighat temple. > > Now my question is, if the idol at the Kaalighat temple did not have a divine > presence why did this person suddenly have such a nice meditation there? Two points: (1) One can have a nice meditation session anywhere. While different places and times have some difference in the nature and degree of spiritual energy, one can experience anything anywhere anytime, if the internal factors are conducive. (2) What I said about Dakshineshwar vs Kalighat is purely my observation. Please bear in mind that any observation is fallible! It is possible that Kalighat has similar or higher spiritual energy compared to Dakshineshwar and I simply failed to perceive it. What we are able to perceive and observe is also based on our own mental conditioning and our own karmik debts. The Mother is capable of deluding *anyone*. > But then, what ever the idol may contain, postive/negative/creative/ > destruction, if someone prays to it with devotion, assuming that it is > reaching God, is it not enough? The purpose of an idol is to evoke certain imagery or thought in you. If a spiritual person imagines a particular energy or form of god in a particular object on a continuous basis, slowly that form gets "established" in that idol. As time goes on, his mind can be focused on that specific form faster and easier by simply looking at the idol. Though we think that our minds are separate entities, they are all connected feebly and all of us are able to perceive in some vague form other people's strong thoughts that are present in the ether. Thus, if an idol is working as a repository of several spiritual thoughts of a person trying to focus on a form of god, seeing that idol can evoke some similar thoughts in another person too. However, there is some translation involved when thoughts of one mind are vaguely perceived and interpreted by another mind. This translation is dependent on one's mental conditioning. Thus, what we perceive at the end is conformant to our own mental conditioning! Suppose a foolish person thought while praying to an idol everyday of a fierce goddess who kills all of one's enemies, brings people under one's control and makes one successful. Suppose you focus on that idol. Then you are susceptible to that kind of thoughts. However, if you see her as someone who helps you overcome your weaknesses and become dispassionate, nothing bad is going to happen to you. But the fact that someone used that idol as a repository of negative thoughts becomes a minor obstruction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Namasthe Friends  Speaking of Narayanavanam, please see this link for a saint whos soul is probably still there.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorakaya_Swami  Srinivasa On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:   Namaste,  If an incense stick with intense smell was burnt in a place, the air there will be filled with that smell long after the stick completely burns. However, eventually the smell will be gone! How long it takes to disappear depends on how strong the smell was when the stick was burnt.  Similarly, when a great saint meditates in a place, the air there will be filled with that saint's spiritual energy. Even after the saint leaves that place or leaves earth altogether, that energy will linger there. Slowly it becomes weak and disappears.  In many famous temples these days, priests have become commercial and do not have the devotion needed. The rituals performed every few years to re-energize the idols  *       *       *  It is my humble opinion that some famous temples do not have much divine presence today, though I do not want to name any names. At the same time, some not-so-well-known temples seem to have a powerful divine presence.  I was very impressed with the Krishna temple in Mayapur (ISKCON head office is there), Girnar hills in Gujarat and Arunachalam hills in Tiruvannamalai (Ramana Maharshi's place). There is a tremendous amount of spiritual energy in those places. There are several temples where the idol is practically alive. For example, even 123 years after Ramakrishna Paramahamsa left, the Kaali idol at Dakshineshwar is " alive " . I did not get the same impression at the famous Kalighat temple which is also in Calcutta.  There was one small temple in Tamil Nadu that I was taken to by a priest who took me to visit about 30 temples all over Tamil Nadu before we did the Shata Chandi homam in Chennai in 2006. I never heard of that temple before and it seemed like a small temple. The name of the form of the divine Mother present there was a Tamil language name and I did not understand it. I do not even remember the name now. But, when I closed my eyes and started meditating with my mantra in front of the idol, I was dazzled by a vision of a very fierce goddess whose face was emiting rays like Sun. I felt that there was a powerful presence there. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of the place or the goddess, but it is a temple without roof over the goddess. They tried to put a roof over the goddess a few times, but the roof came down in a fire accident each time and they finally decided that the goddess likes open air and no roof. Though we spent only 5 min and left in a hurry, I was very pleased with that temple. Someone from Tamil Nadu probably knows the name of the temple and goddess.  Like this, I am sure there are many temples with a powerful divine presence across India.  Apart from the Kaali temple at Dakshineshwar, one of my best experiences when meditating was at the Krishna/Vitthal temple at Aalandi near Pune. I am sure that Jnaneshwar Maharaj is still meditating in the underground chamber there.  *       *       *  Even the middle of a busy road in India is better for meditating than a temple in USA. These western countries are so filled with rajas and tamas. There is rajas in India too, but there is a good amount of sattwa there. Thus, any temple in India will be a good place to meditate, but my view is that there is not much left at *some* temples. But some temples are really good.  If one has a chance to spend a few months doing spiritual sadhana near a temple, I suggest the following:  Mayapur, Dakshineshwar, Puri and Kamakhya in east India, Kurtaalam, Tiruvannamalai (Arunachalam hills) and Narayana vanam (near Tirupati) in south India, Shirdi, Aalandi, Dwaraka and Girnar mountains (Junagadh) in west India, Varanasi, Vrindavan and Hrishikesh in north India and Srisailam and Mantralayam and Ujjain in central India.  There are many other good places, but the above come to my mind. Visiting a temple once is one thing and staying there for several months while maintaining a simple lifestyle and doing a spiritual sadhana (like homam or japam) there is quite another.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Jyotish writings: JyotishWritingsSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Astro Seeker Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:11 AM Holy Places Respected Narsimhaji, I would like to know your opinion on holy places (famous temples etc) in today's time. Say, for example, how do you see going to Shirdi Temple and Shree Tirupati temple, as far as spiritual sadhana is concerned. Please share your views on this. Best Regards, Sriram  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Namaste Friends, By Gods grace we had a great trip and have returned home full of beautiful memories and contentment. We visited Kamakhya Ma temple first.It was not very crowded so we had a nice darshan.Inside the mandir,the pujariji asked us to drink some of the water from a little that was flowing there.I had some and then my heart started beating very fast.I don't know whether it was because i drank a nice palmful of water or because one had to bend quite a bit to reach the water. Then we visited-kaziranga,shillong.gangtok,darjeeling,kalimpong.All such beautiful places. And finally we reached kolkatta.First thing we did was to visit Ma at Kalighat.Some friends had prearranged a panda,so we did not have much problem.Again we had a beautiful darshan.The panda seemed to have some influence,he stopped the other people, and we had Ma to ourselves for 5 mins. or so.I was only trying to see and absorb the murat of Ma.She was so different from what i had always imagined.So beautiful....'Madhuram' was the only word that came to mind. Same was the case at Dakshineshwar.Ma looked so beautiful and loving.I kept going again and again--from the side,twice from front---i would go and join the queue again so i could have just one more look. And due to all this we could not visit Belur Math.But i dont mind.I'll go back,again and again. The best darshan we had was of Adya Ma. The bhog aarti had just begun when we reached.We stayed there for the whole aarti.There were bhajans and strotras from chandi path being sung.It was a great atmosphere.It felt great. And finaly,we went to Gangasagar.It was shani pradosh of kartik that day,though i dont know if it has any importance!. I felt nice.Last year, i had seen the udgam of Gangaji at Gaumukh ,and here i was, at the final resting point of Ganga. A cycle complete. I feel very nice and content.Whole and complete.even when writing this.I wish to stay with this feeling for sometime,so i will stop here. Thankyou once again for your advice and wishes, Sunita. , Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx wrote: > > Dear Members, > > I would agree to Rajarshiji about the Kaalighat priest / pandas. > > About Dakshineshwar, I would like to add a few more words based on my experience. I have been visiting this temple since the age of 10 and I have seen how things have changed around the temple but fortunately the peace inside the temple still prevails and I do get a lot of positive energy. Incidently, my Istha devata is Maa Kaali and I could feel her divine grace much more than Kaalighat ( my personal opinion). > > Over the period of years the temple has gained importance nationally / globally due to Sri Ramkrishna, Sharda Maa and Swami Vivekanda's ashram. Hence the pilgrims & tourist inflow has increased by many folds but still the authorities are trying to maintain a clean atmosphere / surroundings as compared to Kaalighat. > > Here too the priest are commercial minded but not as much obvious as in Kaalighat. The devotees do not get much time to have the darshan of Maa due to the long crowd as well as your feet will burn if the sun is shining bright. But what I suggest is that just opposite to the temple is a open hall from where Maa Kaali can be seen clearly as Maa's idol is much elevated (please note that you will have to take about 20 steps to have her darshan). I sit in this hall and try to get a place where I can see her clearly and then meditate once my system has absorbed her full Rupa - a pleasant feeling. Forget the crowd around you and you can have a good dialouge with Maa. > > After Maa's darshan walk down to the abode of Shri Ramkrishna , your mind will be so peaceful after the meditation - so much of positive energy around there. The next hop would be a pleasant boat ride ( I prefer that as it make me close to mother nature - car ride is also possible) visit the Swami Vivekananda Ashram .. Well I bet the day is well spent and you will feel better. > > (this is my personal experience and it might differ from others, but a place worth visiting) > > > Warm Regards, > > Debabrato Sarkar > > > --- On Mon, 10/12/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote: > > > rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 > Re: Re: Holy Places > > Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:20 AM > > > > > Dear Sunita, > > If you are going to the Kaalighat temple, you need to be careful of the local priests/pandas. They can be very nasty and extremely money minded. Dakshineshwar is more peaceful. Near the Dakshineshwar ma Kaali idol, closeby is the room where Sri Ramakrishna used to live. People can go and sit inside the room and meditate. > > Wish you and your family a very holy and fullfilling trip. > > > -Regards > Rajarshi > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > --- On Mon, 12/10/09, sunita_vt <sunita_vt > wrote: > > > sunita_vt <sunita_vt > > Re: Holy Places > > Monday, 12 October, 2009, 12:09 PM > > > > > Namaste friends, > God-willing, next week, 19 oct. onwards my family and a few relatives are leaving for a trip to Guahati, sikkim, and kolkata.We plan to visit Kamakhya temple and the two Kali temples along with a few monasteries in Sikkim.And so i have been following this thread with interest.And am looking forward to going there and finding out how/what i will feel there. > If there is something i should keep in mind, friends please advice. > > Thankyou. > Sunita. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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