Guest guest Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 || OM TAT SAT || Dear Narasimha, > Apart from Upanishads, Vasishtha clearly mentions in Yoga Vaasishtham that > creation order is ether, air, fire, water and earth and dissolution order is > the reverse. When earth, water, fire, air and finally ether are dissolved, > Vasishtha says that cosmic space remains. This is the same thing that Nitish > was quoting as " super ether " , but it is not considered as an " element " by > Vasishtha. When that too is dissolved, one merges in Brahman. From Brahman > comes the cosmic space and from it come the five elements. Since Tattva is a " universal conception for creation to happen " , it doesn't matter whether we use Sankhya, Jyotish or Vedanta - we will find its description and usage in all the shastras ? Now, You say that Vasistha doesn't consider Cosmic space as a Tattva. What is the basis of your statement within the scope of Jyotish shastra ? Does it deny or approve the existence of the 6th tattwa viz SuperEther ? Can you bring forth a relevant dictum from BPHS or elsewhere to prove your point or you are just giving out an opinion on behalf of Vasistha, which may or may not be true ? What is the tattva associated with each of the 12 sun-signs ? Regards, Nitish , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > Dear Sundeep, > > Heavens no, I wasn't suggesting meditating on any chakra at all. It is > neither necessary not sufficient to focus on ANY chakra for Kundalini to > rise. For example, a true Kundalini awakening experience was described in > the following mail. That person was not meditating/focusing on ANY chakra > and he actually never thinks in terms of chakras. He just meditated with a > Veda mantra and focused the mind on the mantra and a deity that he is > attached to. > > On Kundalini (Re: Re: Urdhwa-Retas) - message 1476 > /message/1476 > > Irrespective of what one is focusing on, Kundalini goes from Moolaadhaara to > Swaadhishthaana to Manipoora to Anaahata and so on. That order if fixed. > Kundalini will leave a chakra and go to the next chakra if and only if one's > notion of " I " is free from certain things at that time. Leaving each chakra > has different requirements and has do with the corresponding element and > limitations represented by it. As long as your self-awareness is > characterized by the qualities represented by Moolaadhaara , Kundalini > cannot advance from Moolaadhaara. > > Intense focus on something (e.g. a mantra or a deity) may free one > temporarily from the limitations represented by a chakra, enabling Kundalini > to leave the chakra. If Kundalini left Moolaadhaara chakra, it does not mean > the person was (or should be) meditating on Moolaadhaara chakra or > Swaadhishthaana chakra. THAT is irrelevant. What is relevant instead is > whether the person overcame the limitations represented by Moolaadhaara > chakra. Same with other chakras. > > * * * > > Let us go back to the order of elements: > > Apart from Upanishads, Vasishtha clearly mentions in Yoga Vaasishtham that > creation order is ether, air, fire, water and earth and dissolution order is > the reverse. When earth, water, fire, air and finally ether are dissolved, > Vasishtha says that cosmic space remains. This is the same thing that Nitish > was quoting as " super ether " , but it is not considered as an " element " by > Vasishtha. When that too is dissolved, one merges in Brahman. From Brahman > comes the cosmic space and from it come the five elements. > > Sahasrara chakra represents Brahman. Here there is no ego principle (I-ness > or ahamkara) and no objectification. Aajnaa chakra represents the cosmic > space which is accompanied by the concept of Time. The ego principle > (I-ness) is active here and there is a sense of I, but it is very subtle and > has not yet expanded. When this ego principle expands, element of ether is > created from it and later air, fire, water and earth are created. Chakras > from Visuddhi to Moolaadhaara represent ether to earth. > > The creation of five elements from the cosmic space is explained by > shastras, but how Brahman gave rise to cosmic space and Time (where there is > objectification and I-ness) is mysterious. Cosmic space and Time represent > the early stages of the field of duality, while Brahman represents > non-duality. The transition between the two involves several stages that are > mysterious. > > Correspondingly, there are several secretive chakras in between Sahasraara > chakra and Aajnaa chakra. They are at the top of the forehead and at the top > of the head. > > Whether it makes sense to you or not, some great yogis consider some of > those chakras to be better than Sahasraara. In Sahasraara, there is no > I-ness, no objects and no experience. In the secretive chakras just under > it, there is a very subtle I-ness, there are objects and very subtle > experiences. There is some " rasa " (juice/experience) to be had by I-ness > here. > > * * * > > I cannot recommend any text on Kundalini as definitive. " The Serpent Power: > Shat chakra Nirupana " by Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodruff - sp?) is > considered a good text, but I honestly did not find it valuable. It is just > theoretical. Manish values Vimalananda very highly and asked me to buy > " Kundalini " by Robert Svoboda. He told me, " though not perfect, this is the > best book you can find these days on the subject. Whether you read it or > not, buy it so that you can later compare notes with what you experience. " > Whatever I have learnt experientially so far is quite consistent with the > simple and lucid ideas represented in that book. > > Of course, various upanishads and works of Shankaracharya will give you a > clearer perspective on some issues and enhance your internal understanding. > > * * * > > Shankaracharya said in " bhaja govindam " composition: " O fool, pray to > Govinda tirelessly. When your time's up, all this knowledge and these > technicalities aren't going to save you. " Moreover, different people > sometimes think in different terms and misunderstand others. It is like a > Pascal language programmer reading C language software, guessing what it > means and reporting bugs based on wrong understanding of the language. > > It is with a sense of discomfort and amusement that I write about these > technical matters these days. I suppose I have to deal with these > technicalities because some important people that I care about are > interested in these technicalities at this point of time. > > If people just do homam or japam or whatever sadhana they chose and focus > all of their mental energy on their chosen deity, it will be more useful... > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > - > " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent > > Friday, October 02, 2009 2:24 PM > Re: Order of Creation, Physics & Reality > > > > Dear Narasimhaji, > > > > What exactly is your proof that effacing of tattwas/chakras must be > > pursued in serial order? The well known Pt. Gopi Krishna, who only > > meditated on Sahasrara (crown of his head) had the experience appended > > below, please read if you havent seen it earlier. Also what is your proof > > that meditating on a chakra effaces it - this is not obvious - why might > > it not intensify it while purifying it? Is there any definitive text on > > Kundalini (Sat cakra nirupana is just too broad and symbolic for me).. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sundeep > > > > Gopi Krishna: > > " Over a period of years, he developed the ability to sit for a period of > > hours in concentration without any discomfort. The following account which > > took place in 1937 describes his first Kundalini experience which occurred > > while he was visualizing " an imaginary Lotus in full bloom, radiating > > light " at the crown of his head. > > > > Suddenly, with a roar like that of a waterfall, I felt a stream of > > liquid light entering my brain through the spinal cord. > > > > Entirely unprepared for such a development, I was completely taken by > > surprise; but regaining my self-control, keeping my mind on the point of > > concentration. The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring > > louder, I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping > > out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light. It is impossible to > > describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that > > was myself growing wider surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and > > wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of > > its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became > > entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness without any > > outline, without any idea of corporeal appendage, without any feeling or > > sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light > > simultaneously conscious and aware at every point, spread out, as it were, > > in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction. I was no > > longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a > > small point of awareness confined to a body, but instead was a vast circle > > of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in > > a state of exultation and happiness impossible to describe. > > Krishna, Pandit Gopi, Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness (New > > Delhi: Orient Paperbacks, 1992), pps. 6-7 " > > > > > >> > >> When one thinks of " I " , one perhaps thinks of a body that looks and feels > >> in a particular way physically. Apart from the physical aspect, one may > >> think of " I " as someone who has certain qualities, certain needs, certain > >> belongings etc. All those concepts one has about who one is, form one's > >> self-awareness and Kundalini represents that self-awareness. Kundalini > >> cannot leave Moolaadhaara chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* in nature > >> within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. Kundalini > >> cannot leave Swaadhishthaana chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* or > >> *fluid* in nature within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still > >> remaining. And so on. > >> > >> Many people who talk about experiences of Kundalini in higher chakras are > >> often talking merely about some amount of vaayus flowing in those chakras > >> (which may still be a nice experience) and have *not* experienced > >> Kundalini actually being there. IF Kundalini really leaves Moolaadhaara, > >> one will not perceive a solid body, one will not have notions of owning > >> anything. Similarly, as Kundalini moves up each chakra, each element is > >> effaced in one's cumulative idea of who one is, at the physical as well > >> as the subtle level of existence! To completely efface even one element > >> (earth) from one's notion of self ( " I " ), even for a short duration of > >> time, is not at all easy. > >> > >> The order in which elements are effaced as one progresses towards samadhi > >> is - earth, water, fire, air and ether. If Kundalini again comes down, > >> effaced elements return to work in the reverse order - ether, air, fire, > >> water and earth. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.