Guest guest Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Namaste Narasimha, >Sahasrara chakra represents Brahman. Here there is no ego principle >(I-ness or ahamkara) and no objectification.......... I am thankful for this perticular message. you may ignore my previous question. i am writing down my understandings as under. 1. Mulaadhaar Chakra - Earth element, Swaadhishthaan - Water, Manipur - Fire, Anaahat - Air, Vishudhdhi - Ether, Agna - Super Ether (Cosmic space & time) and Sahasraar - Brahman (Non Dual, undifferentiated Brahman). Chakras have peculiar characteristics associated which regulates some qualities/emotions. some are binding and some are liberating to next chakra. 2. In between each chakra, there are some more chakras which may represents mysterious principle of evolvement from one element to the other. Like There are chakras between Sahsraar and Agna which hold the mystry which can explain how Undifferentiated brahman projected Cosmic space and time stage by stage. Same way, Chakraas between say Swaadhishthaan and Mulaadhaar hold the principle and explain evolution of Earth element from water element and so on and so forth. 3. Kundalini rise experience does not depend upon which chakra one is mediatating (actually it does not require that one should meditate on those imaginery chakras). whatever chakra one is meditating on, the order of kundalini travel will always be from Muladhaar to Sahsraar. Kundalini rise is relevent only to the *concentration of mind*. focus of mind on ANY one perticular object/thought/action. 4. Self awarness (Popularly known as Kundalini Shakti) reaching Sahasraar ONCE means the soul is practically free from all the bondages. The soul may need to then only wait for the present body to drop away. The soul may merge in to Brahman or may remain one step below participate in natures play for helping other souls. 5. All these mapping of Brahman, Cosmic space, Ehter, Air, Fire, water, Earth to the imaginery chakraas in body is though wonderful to know, does not help a person to actaully experience anything higher. That is it. as you know i am not much intrested in technicalities but it is good if that is also properly understood in a simpler way. why i say simpler way because different authors have used different terminologies to discribe the same framework (As nitish has written) but that has created bias and resultant debates, misunderstandings and confusions. finally as you mentioned, after all his superhuman knowledge, Shankara gives the message of " Bhaj Govindam.....nahi nahi rakshati Dukrung Karane " !!! let's engage in Homam/Japa/Dhyaan/Bhajan/Service/vichaara/... - one/more/all of them and findout ourselves if that is the desire. Best Regards, Utpal , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > Dear Sundeep, > > Heavens no, I wasn't suggesting meditating on any chakra at all. It is > neither necessary not sufficient to focus on ANY chakra for Kundalini to > rise. For example, a true Kundalini awakening experience was described in > the following mail. That person was not meditating/focusing on ANY chakra > and he actually never thinks in terms of chakras. He just meditated with a > Veda mantra and focused the mind on the mantra and a deity that he is > attached to. > > On Kundalini (Re: Re: Urdhwa-Retas) - message 1476 > /message/1476 > > Irrespective of what one is focusing on, Kundalini goes from Moolaadhaara to > Swaadhishthaana to Manipoora to Anaahata and so on. That order if fixed. > Kundalini will leave a chakra and go to the next chakra if and only if one's > notion of " I " is free from certain things at that time. Leaving each chakra > has different requirements and has do with the corresponding element and > limitations represented by it. As long as your self-awareness is > characterized by the qualities represented by Moolaadhaara , Kundalini > cannot advance from Moolaadhaara. > > Intense focus on something (e.g. a mantra or a deity) may free one > temporarily from the limitations represented by a chakra, enabling Kundalini > to leave the chakra. If Kundalini left Moolaadhaara chakra, it does not mean > the person was (or should be) meditating on Moolaadhaara chakra or > Swaadhishthaana chakra. THAT is irrelevant. What is relevant instead is > whether the person overcame the limitations represented by Moolaadhaara > chakra. Same with other chakras. > > * * * > > Let us go back to the order of elements: > > Apart from Upanishads, Vasishtha clearly mentions in Yoga Vaasishtham that > creation order is ether, air, fire, water and earth and dissolution order is > the reverse. When earth, water, fire, air and finally ether are dissolved, > Vasishtha says that cosmic space remains. This is the same thing that Nitish > was quoting as " super ether " , but it is not considered as an " element " by > Vasishtha. When that too is dissolved, one merges in Brahman. From Brahman > comes the cosmic space and from it come the five elements. > > Sahasrara chakra represents Brahman. Here there is no ego principle (I-ness > or ahamkara) and no objectification. Aajnaa chakra represents the cosmic > space which is accompanied by the concept of Time. The ego principle > (I-ness) is active here and there is a sense of I, but it is very subtle and > has not yet expanded. When this ego principle expands, element of ether is > created from it and later air, fire, water and earth are created. Chakras > from Visuddhi to Moolaadhaara represent ether to earth. > > The creation of five elements from the cosmic space is explained by > shastras, but how Brahman gave rise to cosmic space and Time (where there is > objectification and I-ness) is mysterious. Cosmic space and Time represent > the early stages of the field of duality, while Brahman represents > non-duality. The transition between the two involves several stages that are > mysterious. > > Correspondingly, there are several secretive chakras in between Sahasraara > chakra and Aajnaa chakra. They are at the top of the forehead and at the top > of the head. > > Whether it makes sense to you or not, some great yogis consider some of > those chakras to be better than Sahasraara. In Sahasraara, there is no > I-ness, no objects and no experience. In the secretive chakras just under > it, there is a very subtle I-ness, there are objects and very subtle > experiences. There is some " rasa " (juice/experience) to be had by I-ness > here. > > * * * > > I cannot recommend any text on Kundalini as definitive. " The Serpent Power: > Shat chakra Nirupana " by Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodruff - sp?) is > considered a good text, but I honestly did not find it valuable. It is just > theoretical. Manish values Vimalananda very highly and asked me to buy > " Kundalini " by Robert Svoboda. He told me, " though not perfect, this is the > best book you can find these days on the subject. Whether you read it or > not, buy it so that you can later compare notes with what you experience. " > Whatever I have learnt experientially so far is quite consistent with the > simple and lucid ideas represented in that book. > > Of course, various upanishads and works of Shankaracharya will give you a > clearer perspective on some issues and enhance your internal understanding. > > * * * > > Shankaracharya said in " bhaja govindam " composition: " O fool, pray to > Govinda tirelessly. When your time's up, all this knowledge and these > technicalities aren't going to save you. " Moreover, different people > sometimes think in different terms and misunderstand others. It is like a > Pascal language programmer reading C language software, guessing what it > means and reporting bugs based on wrong understanding of the language. > > It is with a sense of discomfort and amusement that I write about these > technical matters these days. I suppose I have to deal with these > technicalities because some important people that I care about are > interested in these technicalities at this point of time. > > If people just do homam or japam or whatever sadhana they chose and focus > all of their mental energy on their chosen deity, it will be more useful... > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > - > " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent > > Friday, October 02, 2009 2:24 PM > Re: Order of Creation, Physics & Reality > > > > Dear Narasimhaji, > > > > What exactly is your proof that effacing of tattwas/chakras must be > > pursued in serial order? The well known Pt. Gopi Krishna, who only > > meditated on Sahasrara (crown of his head) had the experience appended > > below, please read if you havent seen it earlier. Also what is your proof > > that meditating on a chakra effaces it - this is not obvious - why might > > it not intensify it while purifying it? Is there any definitive text on > > Kundalini (Sat cakra nirupana is just too broad and symbolic for me).. > > > > Regards, > > > > Sundeep > > > > Gopi Krishna: > > " Over a period of years, he developed the ability to sit for a period of > > hours in concentration without any discomfort. The following account which > > took place in 1937 describes his first Kundalini experience which occurred > > while he was visualizing " an imaginary Lotus in full bloom, radiating > > light " at the crown of his head. > > > > Suddenly, with a roar like that of a waterfall, I felt a stream of > > liquid light entering my brain through the spinal cord. > > > > Entirely unprepared for such a development, I was completely taken by > > surprise; but regaining my self-control, keeping my mind on the point of > > concentration. The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring > > louder, I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping > > out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light. It is impossible to > > describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that > > was myself growing wider surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and > > wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of > > its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became > > entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness without any > > outline, without any idea of corporeal appendage, without any feeling or > > sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light > > simultaneously conscious and aware at every point, spread out, as it were, > > in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction. I was no > > longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a > > small point of awareness confined to a body, but instead was a vast circle > > of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in > > a state of exultation and happiness impossible to describe. > > Krishna, Pandit Gopi, Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness (New > > Delhi: Orient Paperbacks, 1992), pps. 6-7 " > > > > > >> > >> When one thinks of " I " , one perhaps thinks of a body that looks and feels > >> in a particular way physically. Apart from the physical aspect, one may > >> think of " I " as someone who has certain qualities, certain needs, certain > >> belongings etc. All those concepts one has about who one is, form one's > >> self-awareness and Kundalini represents that self-awareness. Kundalini > >> cannot leave Moolaadhaara chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* in nature > >> within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still remaining. Kundalini > >> cannot leave Swaadhishthaana chakra, if *anything* that is *solid* or > >> *fluid* in nature within one's cumulative idea of who one is is still > >> remaining. And so on. > >> > >> Many people who talk about experiences of Kundalini in higher chakras are > >> often talking merely about some amount of vaayus flowing in those chakras > >> (which may still be a nice experience) and have *not* experienced > >> Kundalini actually being there. IF Kundalini really leaves Moolaadhaara, > >> one will not perceive a solid body, one will not have notions of owning > >> anything. Similarly, as Kundalini moves up each chakra, each element is > >> effaced in one's cumulative idea of who one is, at the physical as well > >> as the subtle level of existence! To completely efface even one element > >> (earth) from one's notion of self ( " I " ), even for a short duration of > >> time, is not at all easy. > >> > >> The order in which elements are effaced as one progresses towards samadhi > >> is - earth, water, fire, air and ether. If Kundalini again comes down, > >> effaced elements return to work in the reverse order - ether, air, fire, > >> water and earth. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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