{viprasamhitha} learning from mistakes

[Guest guest]

Respected K.V. Sarma,For the benefit of laymen like me , can you kindly elaborate your statements? Particularly, I would like to know about Dharma of different jivas like Brahmins, Ladies etc. etc. in Kaliyuga via-a-vis the applicable Dharma enjoined in various Smrtis? Can you also state in which respects the smrti injunctions are/were at variance with the corresponding provisions of Srti? Does Srti talk of all that is said in Smritis? How could the Rshis who wrote the Smrtis afford to write something contrary

to the Srti? Who wrote the Dharma for Kaliyuga?. From the Puranas we know the prophesies /attributes of Kaliyuga and we see it now. But what is the Dharma for Kaliyuga? Is that Dharma available as a book? Is chanting the name of the Lord the only remedy for Kaliyuga? Pl. clarify.G.BalasubramanianSarma KV <sarmakvTo:

viprasamhitha (AT) googl (DOT) comSent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:52:16 AM{viprasamhitha} Re: learning from mistakes

(With specific reference to Sri GB's mail on yuga and validity of smRti-s. I think 'I know' at least one 'member from various other groups' who is claiming un-sanatana-ness of smRti-s and batting for more yuga-specific smRti-s. To the extent that 'he' accepts the sanatana-ness of SRti-s, I thank God.)

 

smRti-s are yuga dharma-s, no doubt.

To "correct" the smRti to the yuga (and dESa as the case may be), there should be a "correction factor." If the correction factor (or method to find it) is not given, it is not a good "scientific system."

Fortunately for us, we have the correction factors for smRti-s!!

The simplest and most basic (thumb rule ?) correction factor is:smRti (the yuga-specific "interpretation") should be subservient to "SRti."

Thus, whichever are smRti-s (specifically those of today) that are "in line" with the SRti-s, are to be followed; others should be avoided like plague.

namaama vEda maataram-Syam

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Umashankar V <urshankar wrote:

Dear Dr.Praveen,

Very correct. "If we sit back thinking,it is my karma to die and nobody can help,that translates to doing no karma.Instead,if i do everything possible humanly and leave to God to decide the fruits of the work, that is acceptable."

 

Yes. Once when I had a doubt and was running a risk of slipping into tamas (inaction) my Guru told me ALL dharmas here refers to "doing and not doing"

 

Which means, having ANY preference (egoistic due to likes/dislikes) means the surrender is not yet done fully. Any effort whatsoever will still result in bondage (either as papam or punyam) Punyam is same as papam when it comes to the bondage that it brings along with it.

 

I am sorry if my post sounded like criticising scientists. There are very soulful people who are there in all walks of life.

 

A conscious surrender does make a difference. It is this which has been given as choice to the humans. A spiritual possibility. Science has denied that for a long time (not the scientists!) when the time-spirit allows, science, as you rightly said shall give way to the Spirit!

 

With Grace and Blessings, ANYTHING can help. Without that NOTHING can. That was my take..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 3:51 PM, dr.praveen kumar <drpraveenks wrote:

Umashankarji,

The presumed statement that science always goes against Spiritual world/God would be wrong.

If any act done with the right purpose even by an atheist goes within the realms of Spiritual world.

If a scientist passionately works and invents a medicine with an intention that it will cure a suffering

of an ailing person,that is good karma.if somebody invents a bomb to kill people that mounts to

acting against the God.

More over you have to appreciate that Krishna has never said people to stop working.Karma has to be done

by all including himself(BG).If we sit back thinking,it is my karma to die and nobody can help,that translates

to doing no karma.Instead,if i do everything possible humanly and leave to God to decide the fruits of the work,that

is acceptable.

In my view science and spiritual world has to meet at some point,probably science has to give in to larger spiritual world

praveen

2009/8/29 Umashankar V <urshankar

 

 

 

Dear G.Balasubramanian ji,

You have indeed raised a wonderful point. Our Sanatana Dharma prescribes Yuga Dharma. Every Yuga has its Manu. In this era of many false swamijis, how to spot Manu!? How to know what to do and what not to do? Whats right and whats wrong? Sanatana dharma encompasses Yuga dharma too. While Sanatana Dharma has dharma prescribed for every varna, why not for every yuga? Does it make the dharma non-sanatana? The context of Sanatana dharma needs to be understood right. I will give what my understanding is. WHat I express in words here is subject to my imperfections in communication and limitation of verbal communication.

 

Now, its becomes very difficult for human mind to comprehend all of these and follow everything picture perfect. The present day science is an offshoot of a much stronger Indian version of Sankhya and (Tantra/Kriya )Yoga. There have been many great people who had tried to achieve many things including realization by their self-effort, by mastering and winning over the nature and its laws. Prakriti is rich with such laws. So what is the way out? The Lord is all merciful. It is precisely this that Bhagavan Ramana has countered in his Upadesa Sara "Kartrur agnaya Prapyate Phalam, Karma Kim Param, Karma thajjadam". Its a big blow to all the ones who believe in cause-and-effect reslationships in the context of realization. It is precisely this that Lord Sri krishna countered and asked Arjuna to surrender ALL of his dharma unto himself - "Sarva dharman parityajya".

 

Self-Realization alone is the one and only solution. So only a realized person can be right and perfect? - Yes! But, as humans, unrealized yet, our perfection lies in simple, humble and total surrender that The Lord describes in The Gita. Namasamkirtanam, Bhakti and Surrender are sure ways of getting protection. By this we do not fight the laws or win them trusting our effort or mind's power. But leave the result to Lord and faithfully execute the dharma to the extent to which it is possible in a contaminated world of Kali today.

 

The difference between science and our Indian scriptures including Charuvaka (as I have heard), were works which were done by invoking and surrendering to The Lord. Science is NOT. Science does not know God and refuses to recognise it. That is why science is science and has its limitation. Sanatana dharma , as I understand, never let anything out, it comprehended ALL forms of sciences, philosophies etc etc.. In that sense it was holistic and tied it to The ONE who IS!

 

The Thalidomide 'aushada' of today is a product of human mind's scientific pursuit. Science's falsified basis can produce many chemicals which reacts in desirable or non-desriable ways to the extent to which humans have reach (complex lab instruments, experiments, guinea pig experiments to testing on humans). Ayurveda, for instance, a Rshi proktam proclaims the Truth. ANY disease is due to the imbalance of the Vata-Pitta-Kapha. This cannot be contested. Science needs minimum 100 years to comprehend the three. Science (sense based bahirmukha approach in pursuit of Truth) is an arrogant little child who by the virtue of Kali has got some importance today. Can Ayurveda solve the problem? Yes, if and only if it is understood in the right manner. Can any other methods offered by our Rshis can solve the problem? Yes, if and only if it is recieved and practised in exact same manner as they described it.

 

So how to do it? - Its one's own Prarabda that decides. So what can help?? - Grace of The Lord alone can help! nothing else. Thalidomide may produce adverse reaction in person A (unfortunate ones) but not in B. Why? Science needs more time to answer.

 

The answer is Prarabda and Grace. Grace can effect anything. Science can never comprehend Divine Grace. Can one measure the love and yearning of a child in a remote boarding school missing her mother? Can science quantify human love? Leave alone bhakti and Grace!! At the maximum science can define the child's yearning as "a mental and emotional phenomenon by which a human goes through and exhibits emotional states due to absence of company of comforting nature" This is like a blind man saying the elephant is like a long rope (touching its tail) and another blind man saying that an elephant is a big boulder (touching its belly).. Science or technology cannot 'solve' the problems. It has indeed made the problems more complicated, in an attempt to solve them.

 

I suppose my attempt to clarify has helped clarify your query. Do let me know if I have not.

 

Dhanyosmi,

Umashankar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:23 PM, G Balasubramanian <gbsub wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Umashankar, I share your concerns. But I could not understand the connection between Sanatana Dharma and the report on 'Thalidomide' as brought out by Dr. Praveen. Can you kindly make it more explicit?

Incidentally, some members in various other Groups are making statements to the effect that Smruties written by Rishis are not Sanatana (eternal) as the Vedas are. They say that the Smruties were having limited validity. According to them, these are not applicable to Kaliyuga. They hold that the Yuga Dharma overrides the Smruties. For them the Dharma of Kaliyuga is not the same as that of other yugas and hence the smruties written in

other yugas are not applicable now. What are your views in this regard?

G.Balasubramanian

 

 

 

Umashankar V <urshankarviprasamhitha (AT) googl (DOT) com

Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:27:54 AM{viprasamhitha} Re: learning from mistakes

 

 

Dear Dr.Praveen,

You have brought up a topic which was quite a significant one that helped me in a big way.

 

I would like to share my thoughts as I read through the post:

 

Science - its strength (humility to stand corrected as many times as necessary) and its weakness (its very basis which is non holistic and its validity limited to ONLY to verifiable extent)

 

I admire the strength, which essentially is the humility of its surrender to laws of nature , discovering them and meticulously studying and putting them down.

 

The weakness is totally a grave one, given that the 'science' is now ruling everything, right from medicine, entertainment, profession, way of life, food, health etc etc..

 

Whats true today need not be true tomorrow when another theory or evidence over-rides it. (Due lack of any other alternatives) world helplessly clings to science.

 

Moderation is the right way to go in utilizing anything, Science is no exception. Unfortunately no leadership to call a spade a spade. The atheist rules in the name of science today. In short period it might have seen success. But what is surfacing is the blunders committed in the name of promoting science. Humanity is in a grave danger. Environment being destroyed, arms race growing, every day every person has to learn new stuff to keep him upgraded. A well learned(so-called) man in modern times soon gets outdated as science gets 'updated'. Is it not true that when no of people who need to upgrade themselves have increased? Which only means there are a lot more people 'ignorant' and level of ignorance , in the name of science, technology and knowledge , keeps increasing.

 

If emails are order of the day, some futuristic multimedia, pda based virtual world networking could be the order of tomorrow. May be in next year or two. No cyber laws. But lots of cyber crime!! Seems that there is only more chaos than order.

 

I am neither cynical, nor would like to be. I also use emails and network in forums. WHat I have seen and observed is what I have shared.

 

I would now like to share something that struck me to be very profound.

 

Vedas, Shastras, Ayurveda and any Rshi proktam is the Truth. Unchanging with time, age, person and place. No revisions. No version 1.0 or 2.0. Because Rshi proktam is The Truth. Rshi is a Drshta a 'seer' who see the Truth as is. Can there be a better scientist? Today's scientist needs a most complex lab with lost of instruments to measure accurately and follow laws, formulae etc. Any error is very costly. Governments will apologise and easily get away by giving drugs which cause side-effects. Rshis have no take away from this world. They are unattached and are manifestation of Love and Truth. Realized and Divine. What they give is for benefit of humanity and is purely selfless.

 

When I realized the above fact, that's when it dawned on me as to how many people are blindly wooed by the attractive science in a short term and pledge their souls to science, technology, fame and money.

 

DO we have enough time in one lifetime to go with ever-evolving science and technology to gather the right 'knowledge' ? Or trust the ever valid Sanatana Dharma and align our puny tiny little life with much more powerful everlasting Truth of the Dharma and move towards realizationthe ultimate goal as outlined by our scriptures!..

 

My thoughts.. as I read through the post.

 

Sri Gurucharana Kamalebhyo Namaha!

 

 

 

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 AM, dr.praveen kumar <drpraveenks wrote:

Viprabhandhava,

Every individual or society learns from mistakes.So is the world of medicine

40 years ago,pregnant women who had terrible morning sickness were given

a drug called Thalidomide,many of you might be knowing.It was one of the biggest

disaster as the babies were born with lot of abnormalities and the govts across the globe

had to withdraw the drug and apologise for the tragedy caused

 

Now the same drug and it's derivative has been (still under active investigation) to treat certain types

of Blood cancer which cant be treated by any other drugs available.In some,it has been found to have

beneficial effect.In some people,for some mysterious reasons parts of the chromosome(the genetic make up of us)

goes missing.This causes the blood cancer.We do not have solution how to cure those unfortunate ones.

Currently,the hospital I am attached to is doing larger studies towards this direction and we have some of the Indian

patients also who are getting this drug.Only time will tell if we can find a solution to bad Blood cancers

 

Efforts like these might perhaps in the future find some cure for the unfortunate ones.-- Praveen Kaudlay-- Regards,Umashankar.V

 

 

 

-- Regards,Umashankar.V-- Praveen Kaudlay

 

 

 

-- Regards,Umashankar.V

 

 

 

-- नगà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤°à¤§à¤¿à¤•à¤‚ नगà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤°à¤§à¤¿à¤•à¤‚ नगà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤°à¤§à¤¿à¤•à¤‚ नगà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤°à¤§à¤¿à¤•à¤®à¥à¥¤à¤¶à¤¿à¤µà¤¶à¤¾à¤¸à¤¨à¤¤à¤¶à¥à¤¶à¤¿à¤µà¤¶à¤¾à¤¸à¤¨à¤¤à¤ƒ शिवशासनतशà¥à¤¶à¤¿à¤µà¤¶à¤¾à¤¸à¤¨à¤¤à¤ƒ ।।Best Regards,Syam

 

 

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

|| Nahi Jnanena Sadhrsham Pavitram Iha Vidyate ||

To post to this group, send email to viprasamhitha (AT) googl (DOT) com