Guest guest Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Namaste, Intresting ! after reading you email, a thought cam to me along the same line. Duality (Maya) is mainly Play of Light (Refer to Autobiography of yogi) so if one overcomes the speed of light, one crosses the duality...vow Gnyaani se gnyaani mile hui Gnaan ki baat !!! thanks for the idea and warm regards, Utpal , " vinita kumar " <vinitakuma wrote: > > > Namaste Rajarshri ji, > > Something moving at an extremely fast pace does not observe space-time > as you or I do. > > There are a set of particles called Tachyons which move at speeds > greater than that of light and whole of cause and effect gets reversed > for them. > > So this idea of linear cause followed by effect makes sense only here, > and this cannot be superimposed on other frames of reference, where the > question itself may breakdown. > > Wow, this is such a lovely mail. > > Now carrying this forward in some kind of a fantasy world (of which one > has no direct " real " experience)...is it that the grosser (impure) we > are, the slower we move in respect to light (god?)? ...the more lighter > (pure) we become, the more closer we could move in respect of > light?...and then we can perhaps " jump " the space-time duality....the > way the young boy jumped it while looking into the fire during homam? > > karma / destiny applies only in a dualistic framework, isn't it?...or > the time-space dimension that we presently live in? > > As for free will ... is'nt there some relationship between this and > quantum mechanics where if the position of the particle is " pinned down " > the speed of the particle cannot be determined and vice versa??? So > everything may not be fully determined / determinable?...and that is > where free will kicks in??? > > > > , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Utpalji > > > > Now if ONE BEING knows everything including EXACT action and EXACT > REACTION, then would it be really called free will ULTIMATELY? i know > that it can be argued that HE ONLY KNOWS but DOES NOT INTERFEAR and > hence Free will exist but then what is the meaning of the verses in the > context of the topic... > > > > Years ago I had read an awesome book called " Mr Thompkins in > Wonderland " by George Gamow (he had won the Nobel Prize in physics). > > > > There, using a fictional character named Thompkins, George Gamow > explains how our " common sense " and basic understanding of things would > go for a toss if there is even a slight change in the nth decimal place > of any of the standard universal constants, like the charge of an > electron. What is the common sense understanding, but one gained from > observation of life uptill the age of say 18! > > > > Something moving at an extremely fast pace does not observe space-time > as you or I do. Inside an atom there is not a well defined path for a > electron to revolve around. but merely clouds of probability ! Which > means what someone can say at best is the probability of finding an > electron at a certain distance from the nucleus, only a probability. > > > > And all these have been derived from hardcore mathematical process. > Not just speculations. > > > > After reading Narasimhaji's mail I realized the problem arises because > of the structure of our commonsense at this reference frame. That is why > when we are here, this theoritical problem arises, but say you become > the supreme being, the problem itself does not exist. > > > > There are a set of particles called Tachyons which move at speeds > greater than that of light and whole of cause and effect gets reversed > for them. That is, the effect precedes the cause in a universe where the > things happen faster than the speed of light. In such a place one would > probably get the results of an exam even before one appears for the > exam! > > > > So this idea of linear cause followed by effect makes sense only here, > and this cannot be superimposed on other frames of reference, where the > question itself may breakdown.Thus the idea of God having fixed > everything may not make any sense to God, but creates a lot of > theoritical confusion for us. > > > > I am not sure if I have been able to convey what I was trying, I just > made an attempt. > > > > -Regards > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > --- On Thu, 2/7/09, utpal pathak vedic_pathak@ wrote: > > > > > > utpal pathak vedic_pathak@ > > Re: Freewill. > > > > Thursday, 2 July, 2009, 11:49 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Narasimha garu, > > > > There are few things from your message which i am trying to link for > clearly understanding this puzzel of free/fix will. > > > > 1) >there is nothing that is unknown to Him. Past, present and future; > >here, there and everywhere; I, you and others, this possibility, >that > possibility and yet another possibility - all are accessible >and fully > " known " to His self-awareness. > > > > 2)> Bottomline: At the level at which we exist, there is certainly > >something called " freewill " . Within the limits imposed by the > >reactions given by nature to your own previous actions, you do have >a > scope for engaging in different actions at this time. > > > > The above are main two points if understood and linked can give > clarity. > > > > you have brought to me a very FRESH Knowledge that most of Yogi's can > find out one or two possibilities of future depending upon the > space-time cycle zone in which their consciouness can access. a really > advance yogi can see more possibilities of future events due to their > access of more time cycles. BUT please explain to me about the supreme > cosmic being who is a sole link between Dual and Non-dual self. now as > you have mentioned (pl. refer to no.1 above) he is all knower so every > possibility is known to him and not only every possibility but even > every action going to be taken in a perticular Space-time zone and what > the eventual result. we call him by Naraayana/Shiva/ Bhagavati/ > GOD/Allah/ Ganapati (As per Atharvashirsh) and many such names depending > on our faiths. > > > > The point no.1 indicates that HE is all knower and point no.2 > indicates that Free will is certainly there at our Spac-time level. Now > if ONE BEING knows everything including EXACT action and EXACT REACTION, > then would it be really called free will ULTIMATELY? i know that it can > be argued that HE ONLY KNOWS but DOES NOT INTERFEAR and hence Free will > exist but then what is the meaning of the verses in the context of the > topic... > > " Mohyante Mohitaashchaiv Mohameshyanti chaapare... " > > " Mamatvagartetimaha andhakaare Vibhraamayatyetadat iv Vishvam " > > " Tannatra vismay kaaryo yoganidra jagatpate > > Mahaamaayaa Hareshchaishaa tayaa sammohyate jagat " > > > > " ....Mrigtrushna bhramayati " of Gita > > > > please forgive me for wiritng all these things but it is very > difficult for me to really reconcile and i think you are the only help > for me. > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Utpal > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " pvr@ > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > But my question is because I cannot reconcile this with freewill. > > > > Both cannot be correct. It is either this or that. > > > > > > Both are correct, but at different levels. I will elaborate. > However, this is philosophically complex and those who do not follow > what I say should not worry at all. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Non-dual self has no division of self into various objects or space > or time. There is no concept of time or space or space-time continuum > within non-dual self. A yogi absorbed in non-dual self has no sense of > space or time or objectification. > > > > > > Supreme cosmic being is the link between duality and non-duality. > Supreme cosmic being arising in this non-dual self captures the entire > field of duality within Him. All beings, entire space and all space-time > continua within the field of duality exist within Him. From the > perspective of supreme cosmic being, all beings of the dual world are > His parts and all their individual wills are parts of His cosmic will. > As all space-time continua are within Him, there is nothing that is > unknown to Him. Past, present and future; here, there and everywhere; I, > you and others, this possibility, that possibility and yet another > possibility - all are accessible and fully " known " to His > self-awareness. > > > > > > Now, let us come lower and into the field of duality. The field of > duality consists of infinite divisions of space, time and space-time > continua. There are infinite possibilities within this field. > > > > > > Normally, people stuck deeply within duality have a linear sense of > time and perceive just a part of one space-time continuum. However, > field of duality also contains planes of consciousness where different > senses of time and different space-time continua (that may intersect at > various points) exist. A yogi who experiences such a space-time > continuum in such a plane of consciousness may experience a point of > time that maps to a future time in a regular space-time continuum being > experienced by you. Also, what is 1 minute in one space-time continuum > may be 1 year in another space-time continuum. Time is not as > straight-forward an entity as one may think. Basically, the field of > duality contains infinite space-time continua and what one experiences > depends on the plane of consciousness that one's self-awareness > (Kundalini) is in. But, most of us experience part of a specific > space-time continuum and hence think that that is the only reality. But > relaity > > consists of infinite space-time continua that intersect each other. > These are all different possibilities and you chart out your course > based on your actions and Nature's reactions to your actions. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > From the perspective of a yogi who is in a different space-time > continuum, your state may be known at a time that is in " future " as per > the space-time continuum in which you exist. But, from the perspective > of the space-time continuum that you are in, your state at that future > time is not yet known and depends on your current action. > > > > > > If a yogi in a different space-time continuum has seen your state in > future, his observation is merely an observation and from his reference > frame. It has no causal relationship to your current action or your > future state. He is merely an observer and he does not cause anything to > happen. His observation is specific to some space-time pairs and does > not cover all the space-time pairs that you will traverse as you travel > to reach the space-time pair where he observed you (if at all you do!). > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Let us go further. Is there only one future possible for you? Or, > does the path traversed by you in space-time continuum not fixed but > variable based on your actions? Can your actions at important > cross-roads alter the course you traverse? > > > > > > If so, what is the meaning of a yogi observing you at a space-time > pair? Is his observation only a possibility or a certainty? One may say > " how can one observe a possibility? Anything we observe must be a > certainty. " But is that correct? Aren't the field of duality and the > infinite space-time continua contained in it merely a set of infinite > possibilities? > > > > > > Some great rishis can see not just a space-time pair, but many > space-time continua at the same time, i.e. they can see various > possibilities based on various possible actions. However, visions seen > by most yogis about " future " are just one possibility. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Bottomline: At the level at which we exist, there is certainly > something called " freewill " . Within the limits imposed by the reactions > given by nature to your own previous actions, you do have a scope for > engaging in different actions at this time. Depending on which action > you engage in, the future can be slightly different. Some actions can > even make the future significantly different. A rishi may be able to > chart out a significant portion of the field of possibilities for future > (e.g. like a brilliant chess player figuring out most possibilities upto > 20 moves from now). An advanced yogi may be able to see a few > possibilities for future (e.g. like a good chess player figuring out a > few moves or guessing a future position). But the supreme cosmic being > knows the entire field of possibilities, as they all exist within Him. > > > > > > However, your actions are what bring to fruition (w.r.t. the > reference frame of your consciousness! ) some of those possibilities. > One may know all the possibilities quite deeply and even guess the > possibility that will come to fruition, but it is your actions that > actually make some of those possibilities a reality. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > - > > > rajarshi nandy > > > > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:22 AM > > > Re: Freewill. > > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji > > > > > > No doubt a wonderful and inspiring mail for all of us, however, I > could not help it that an inevitable question popped up in my mind. One > of the oft discussed and eternal questions. > > > > > > If events have already been created like in a movie and later as > time unfolds, they happen in our plane of existence, then all talk of > freewill must be humbug? Like a placebo that makes us " happy " but in > reality does not exist! > > > > > > I am not questioning that what you wrote in the mail about events > having already happened, because same has been said by other great > spiritual people in the world. > > > > > > But my question is because I cannot reconcile this with a freewill. > Both cannot be correct. It is either this or that. > > > > > > Theoritically speaking, say tomorrow suddenly majority of the world > reforms itself, does a self correction exercise and brings in peace, > harmony etc etc, then why should the Kalki Avatar still incarnate? But > then if the Kalki Avatar has to incarnate - as our texts say - then such > a self correcting option is already negated out. > > > > > > Well, theoritically, in a very large viewpoint no one has any choice > in the sense that finally everyone will end up merging with the divine. > > > > > > So I guess freewill is not really as free as we love to think. > > > > > > -Regards > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra > > > > > > --- On Tue, 30/6/09, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote: > > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > > > Miscellany: Future, bestest homam, purity > and overcoming ego > > > > > > Tuesday, 30 June, 2009, 6:01 AM > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I mentioned an episode of a small boy who did a very short Chandi > homam and saw Vishnu's ten incarnations above the fire in the following > mail: > > > > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 761 > > > > > > This boy was born and brought up in US and is not proficient in his > knowledge of Hinduism. He did not know much about some of the ten > incarnations. He described what he saw and I told him who was who and a > little about them. One of the forms he saw was a radiant man with white > clothes riding a white horse on a dusty road. I told him he was Kalki > and he hadn't come yet. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > This boy is usually playful, easy-going and smiling. But, when I was > with him one morning, I saw him lost in some serious thought. This was > abou a week after the episode mentioned in the above mail. > > > > > > I asked what he was thinking. He said, " it is not that the future > that is to come has not already happened. It has already happened in > reality, but it will happen later when the time comes. You know what I > mean? " I guessed what he was getting at, but pretended not to know. I > said, " no. What do you mean? " > > > > > > He said, " I don't know how to say what I am thinking. " This boy is > not known to be overly intelligent or articulate. His main > characteristic is that he is usually cheerful, playful, sweet, kind, > contented and relaxed. However, he was onto something today. But he > could not express himself. > > > > > > I helped him, " do you mean to say that future has already happened > at some level, but will reveal itself to people later? Kind of like a > movie. A movie may have been shot and become ready in a studio. Some > people may have already seen it. But people seeing it on the screen > later will think it is happening in front of them. Are you saying > something like that? " > > > > > > He exclaimed, " exactly. That is what I am saying. If something is > going to happen in future, it will happen when future comes. But > somebody may be able to see it before future comes, because it has > already happened. " > > > > > > Though he did not mention it, I knew why he was thinking along these > lines. When I told him the man riding the horse in his vision over the > fire was Kalki and he was yet to come, he was probably confused. Given > his age and ability to think and understand things, this probably seemed > like an oddity to him that he should see somebody who had not yet come. > So he was trying to think how it was possible and came to some important > conclusions about " time " in his own way. > > > > > > Time seems linear at the level of regular consciousness. However, in > many planes of conssciousness, the concept of time becomes changed. It > even loses its meaning when one is established in non-dual Aatman or > Brahman or Self. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > The same boy once performed a very short Kaali homam with a small > naama mantra of Dakshina Kaali with beejaakshara added before name. When > we were meditating after poornaahuti, I felt a very intense and powerful > energy. It was quite different from the energy I feel normally. This > intense energy made my mind feel satisfied and blissful and a feeling > that can be loosely expressed in words as " I am done here. I have > nothing more left to do. Time to leave " filled my entire consciousnss. > > > > > > I had experienced the same kind of intense energy twice before that. > Once I experienced the same energy when I was meditating sitting next to > my guru Manish who was doing a Chandi homam in India. Second time was > when I had an unexpected opportunity to meditate inside the garbhaalaya > of a famous temple, standing within 3 feet from the main Kaali idol > there, which was sanctified and worshipped by a great saint in the past. > The energy I felt was the same on all the three occasions. At no other > time did I feel that intense shakti. > > > > > > Interestingly, after we finished meditation and opened eyes, that > boy remarked, " out of all the different homas I did so far, this is the > bestest homam. " I asked him why. He said, " I don't know how to say it, > but it just felt awesome and different. " > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > This boy performed a really simple and short procedure, shorter than > what I give in manuals. But it seemed like he was successful in making a > powerful energy manifest there. The bottomline is that internal purity > is the most important thing. > > > > > > Rituals help purify one and purity helps one do a ritual better and > get more out of it. It is an egg and chicken problem and one has to keep > doing it until one breaks through. > > > > > > Keep performing your chosen spiritual practices, but do pay > attention to internal purity as you engage in external practices. The > only worthwhile measure of spiritual progress and purity is how smaller > your ego becomes. As ego becomes smaller, you can resist attraction to > external things better and you can resist internal enemies like lust, > anger, jealosy etc better. You can do your dharma better. Ego - thinking > that this is " I " and this is " mine " - is the root cause of all problems. > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > Overcoming ego using jnaana yoga is relatively challenging, but > bhakti yoga is easier. Think that all that is around you - including > your house, money, cars, spouse, children and your own body - is god's > property and that you are a temporary caretaker of all of these > properties of god. Do the best job you can, but without entertaining the > notion " this is mine " . A faithful servant takes very good care of his > master's properties, but without thinking of all those things as his or > her belongings. > > > > > > Realize that thinking of things as " mine " is not necessary for > taking good care of them. A servant who loves one's master takes the > best care of things entrusted to one. When a thing is taken away, a > servant does not waste time worrying and crying. A servant will accept > that is master's property and can be taken away anytime. This enables > one to do the best job with what one possesses and not worry about what > one does not possess or what is out of one's control. > > > > > > Developing the attitude of a servant who takes care of master's > properties will help one wade the ocean of worldly life without getting > caught and overcome ego. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet > Explorer 8. http://downloads./in/internetexplorer/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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