Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009  Namaste, (a) Correct. It is fine to work hard like a honeybee, be engrossed in material life and feel many happinesses and sadnesses of life. The only thing missed out is self-realization and moksha. (b) Not exactly. Spiritual progress does not mean shunning material things. Some people leave wife, children, house, car etc and live in forest, in an attempt to get control over the mind and remove the attachment to and dependency on those things. However, it is not necessary. One can remove the dependency on all things that surround one, even as one remains in their middle! Staying away from something is neither necessary nor sufficient to overcome attachment. What things and people are around you and what actions you engage in are not the problem that blocks you from moksha. It is how you look at them and with what frame of mind you engage in the actions that are the blockages. So the problem is not the material world around you, but your own mind that is the problem. Detachment does not mean not loving or not engaging in actions. Detachment means loving but without expectations and engaging in actions but without expectations. If you give love and do not expect anything in return, if you put in your best effort towards what you see as your dharma for people around you and do not worry about things that go wrong, if you focus on the present and engage in the best possible actions without too much of worry or anxiety about past or future, can there be anything more effective or efficient than that? If one is like a drop of water on a lotus leaf and engages in actions without attachment, one is not necessarily a failure materially. Such a person will do everything a person with deep attachments does, but only better! I say better, because a detached person does not waste time worrying about things out of one's hand or things that went wrong. A detached person always focuses on the best action to engage in right now and does it. Let me put this in one sentence: Attachment does not make you more effective or efficient. In fact, if anything, attachment makes you less effective and efficient. If you are detached, you will give unconditionally and engage in actions without any energy being dispersed on worrying over things out of your control. Normal people waste a lot of their time, energy and emotional space, worrying about things they cannot control. A detached person does what is in one's control perfectly and accepts the result whole-heartedly. © If you are a jeevanmukta, you will do everything you see as your dharma, but only better. You will not feel happy or sad or jealous and angry etc. Your mind will be in a stable, peaceful and blissful state always. It is worth it. You are not getting out of anything, but putting in the best effort. (e) Yes, do not think of emancipation or liberation. Think one small step at a time. Think of getting some physical and mental discipline. Think of some minor control over mind. Thinking overcoming minor weaknesses. Start slowly. (f) There are many ways. The specific way using which many people will benefit in the next few centuries and the specific way which I am here to teach is "homam" or fire ritual. When you are with a person, the physical vibrations made by the person's lips can be heard physically by your ears. Similarly, the vibrations made by his subtle body and mind can be "heard" by your subtle body and mind. That is why we feel pleasant when we are with great saints and uneasy in some companies. The vibrations produced by the subtle and causal bodies of people around us do have an impact on us. Fire is one powerful object which has very pleasant, powerful and cleansing vibrations at the subtle and causal levels. Being next to fire of a reasonable size is like being with a great yogi. If one does a 20-40 min Mahaganapathi homam everyday for 2-3 years, things will automatically start to fall in place. The problem you are seeking is your mind. The solution is also in your mind. You use your mind to train mind to let go of its weaknesses and attachments one by one. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:17 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Dear Narasimha, Very good article/discussion..Thanks for sharing it. If I can, Let me also ask some basic questions. (I am very new to all this. Search for some answers has brought me to this forum.) a) Why Madhukaitam is so bad/evil? Is it not that the world is being sustained by people keeping their head down and doing the routine work? Do we not please the God by keeping our head down and playing the role assigned to us ? An obvious answer comes to mind is that it will keep us away from emancipation and/self-actualization. Correct/Incorrect? b) So, Is spirituality and materialism two poles apart (and twain shall never meet..). Say I wd like to reach the heights of professional success in my career, Am I doomed not to become a good spiritualist (???)? or, If I want to become self-actualized by 2025, does it mean I should stop planning to climb the professional ladder? I do understand about "Limited Bandwidth" issue - but, then I also read about King Janak. Can I combine these two - if yes, how? c) Getting even more confused now, Why do we say that emancipation is our spiritual goal. If GOD created us, and put us on this stage - should our goal not be to play the role dutifully, which God wants us to play. By seeking for emancipation, are we trying to get off the stage and trying to escape the role assigned to us. Are we not contradicting the God's scheme of things by trying to get out of the scheme? d) Or, Is it part of God's scheme to put us in this "maya" first and then ask us to get out of the "maya"? Why will he do so? I am sure he will not be playing "rats in the maze" game. Then, why?? e) Sometimes, I also think that all these above questions are meaningless. I look at my pre-school kid and the way she has put her faith in her teacher. She is not worrying about her profession or phd thesis right now. Similarly, probably, Emancipation/Merger in Cosmic soul etc are problems that we should not be thinking at the begining of our spiritual journey - just look to learn/experience more till we are ready (for what?) f) Then, what do we mean by spiritual journey? where/how do we start? I thought about doing homam/reciting mantra - but is that the right way? or there is another way. Probably, there are many ways - then how do I choose my way? An "user guide" or " spirituality for dummies" book would have been useful. Do we have one? I will appreciate if you can take some time out to guide me here. In fact, probably, I donot even have the right question right now - forget about articulating them well and seeking the answer (I am seeking the problem ) Regards Sanjay On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Namaste Rajarshi, The non-dual Aatman or Brahman is the original source of everything. But the world of duality is a lot more tricky. Please see the "many faced diamond" analogy for god at the end of /message/1 to get clarity on why different people give different hierarchies and consider different beings as supreme. As per Narayana sooktam, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Narayana. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Suryopanishat, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Surya. And so on. The duality is so vast and yet non-duality is the underlying supreme reality in duality. Thus, the hierarchy within hierarchy will have to start at the connection with non-duality and it is not one. In other words, any hierarchy given by anyone is with respect to one perspective. I will not be too keen on finalizing one hierarchy, because that cannot be done really. If you haven't before, do read the analogy in the last part of the mail mentioned above. It is an analogy worth getting into your thinking system. * * * > I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions > or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish > to come true? Which one came first? There is no causal relationship between the two. Actions of rishis and the will of the supreme cosmic being are in sync. They just happen together. Neither causes the other. Rishis are the most perfected beings without a trace of ego and yet performing actions of great consequence, with zero attachment. They operate right on the border of duality and non-duality. * * * > As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I > pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that > Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity > therefore not as supreme as is made out to be? Our ego does not leave us even in sadhana. Sometimes, one's belief that one's guru is the best guru or the god one prays to is the supreme one is rooted in one'e ego and one's need to be the best and be associated with the best. Just contemplate if that is the case and if it is, try to root out such thinking. Having said that, do look at the god you pray to as the supreme and try to reach the supreme through him/her by surrendering to him/her. If you take a low level manifestation of that deity, then rishis may indeed be beyond him/her as Vimalananda said. But, if you take the highest manifestation of the deity, as the supreme cosmic being, then rishis are his playmates and neither above nor below. * * * If you take a company, there may be a chairman who may be the highest authority. But, it may be a ceremonial role and some may consider CEO to be higher while some may consider the chairman to be higher. Why bother about who is higher? In a company does well, they both work with understanding. The hierarchy is irrelevant to one who is a clerk at the company. Just follow the order of your boss (guru) instead of wondering whether chairman calls the shots or CEO. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajarshi nandy Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:56 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Namaste Narasmihaji I have a question. Though it will probably sound stupid to a learned man like you, but I just could not get a convincing answer to it, so thought of putting this question in this forum. You mentioned that a senior Maharishi is doing this. In the books of Vimalananda he says Naths, Munis and Rishis are higher beings, even higher than deities. What confuses me is that, what can be higher than a deity? For example Goddes Durga is the supreme mother of all worlds, then how can a Rishi or any being be higher than Her? Or lord Shiva or Narayana? I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish to come true? Which one came first? It gets confusing-. As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity therefore not as supreme as is made out to be? Sorry if these questions seem childish, but I really get confused thinking about this. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 9:32 AM  Namaste, Aurobindo need not be talking about a single "savior" the way people may imagine. Also, he need not be talking about somebody "connected to" his ashram. Moreover, when it comes to great lineages, there are connections between all. For example, Aurobindo used to visit the house of Sister Nivedita, the foremost disciple of Swami Vivekananda and knew her well when he still lived in Calcutta. He had a vision in his prison cell of Swami Vivekananda, just a few years after his death, in which he imparted Aurobindo some key knowledge. Paramahamsa Yogananda grew up in Calcutta and learnt Sanskrit from M, who was a sishya of Ramakrishna and wrote the gospel of Ramakrishna. Trilinga Swami sent a tantra teacher to Ramakrishna to expand his knowledge. Trilinga Swami knew Lahiri mahashaya and admired him. And so on. Coming back to the main point, the supermind established in the field of earth that was referred to by Aurobindo can simply be a maharshi paying some attention to matters on earth. A maharshi absorbed in the divine in one of the higher planes of consciousness can accomplish huge changes on earth by the mere power of his thought. If there is a divine play to make some positive changes on earth and a maharshi takes part in the play, he may focus a small part of his supermind on the affairs of earth and direct a few important souls to do some key work. Some important souls (deities, rishis or yogis etc) may send their amshas (partial essence) to be born on earth to fulfil different parts of a divine play. You may then see several (not just one) elevated beings, enlightened beings and realized beings born on earth to bring clarity in different aspects of spiritual knowledge. Each of them will get specific internal/external guidance from the divine, based on what their part in the play is. * * * The "Asura of Falsehood" that Aurobindo alluded to is all around us. At the subtlest level, he manifests as false ego in pretty much everybody. At the grossest level, he manifests as blatant lies, wrong propaganda etc. One should not tolerate this Asura (demon) and fight hard. However, one should not hate this Asura or those afflicted by him. When we encounter lies, we should fight and stand for truth but not hate the liar at the same time. There is nothing that needs to be hated in this world. One should learn to do the job assigned to one by Nature without attraction or repulsion to anything or anybody and with unconditional love (i.e. no expectations of a return) to all. > This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji > says about changes coming in the world. I know very little. But I was told that an age that is somewhat like the bygone ages will be established on earth for a few hundred years in the coming decades. The reason the Divine Mother appeared before Manish and asked him to spread simple homam procedures in the world was to prepare the grounds for that. Manish also told me that all this is the play of a senior maharshi. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Laxmi Narayan Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:50 PM Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Hi, Some time back I saw similar article and was intrigued by it. Who might be coming down to earth to help Human Beings? Personally, I believe it was pointing towards Mother Meera. She is a Enlightened person and has helped thousands who go to her by removing some of their karmic cords. Although she now lives in Germany but in her younger days she was connected to Aurobindo;s ashram. Regards,LaxmiNarayan --- On Fri, 19/6/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> Descent of the Supramenal ConscinousnessFriday, 19 June, 2009, 9:31 PM Namaste I found an interesting article based on Sri Aurobindo's writing. I am posting it here for anyone interested. Near the beginning of the 20th century the great Indian freedom fighter and yogi-sage, Sri Aurobindo, began to express a truth which had not been expressed before. In his high states of divine union he saw that the time had come for a new stage in the evolution of mankind. He saw that the divine was to manifest right here on Earth and that the time for this divine emergence into Earth life was now. He spoke of heaven descending to Earth, even as Earth experienced a breakdown due to the intrinsic resistance held within her material body towards this �descent.��Sri Aurobindo was joined in Pondicherry, India, by a French mystic, Mirra Alfassa, who later became known as the Mother. Together they embarked on a journey of intensive cellular transformation that is very relevant to the colossal uncertainties we face today.�Sri Aurobindo saw that the divine force permeates all matter, and that all matter therefore has a force of consciousness. The process of the divine spirit descending down into matter is called involution. The process by which the divine ascends back upwards out of matter is called evolution. According to Sri Aurobindo, humanity has reached a stage where these two events are occurring simultaneously, and in his inner visions, he foresaw that we would soon be experiencing a descent of what he called �supramental (or monadic) consciousness� that would entirely change everything on Earth.�Man�s greatness is not in what he is, says Sri Aurobindo, but in what he makes possible. An immortal soul is somewhere within him, even if seldom active in most people, while an eternal spirit overshadows him, even if obstructed from descent by the hard lid of his constructed personality. There is a great divine plan in motion, even if the evidence of the outer senses seems to contradict it. Sri Aurobindo recognized that humankind is going through an evolutionary crisis. A stage has been reached in which the human mind has made tremendous strides on the one hand, but is left hopelessly inadequate to prevent its own extinction as a species. Meanwhile, as the Mother testified before her death in 1973, a consciousness higher than the human rational mind, what may be termed the Supermind, has recently been established in the fields of the Earth, and is active there. Our task now is to bring it down into cellular consciousness. Evolution took a great leap forward with the origins of Life, and later with the emergence of Mind. We are now at the threshold of another leap forward, even more momentous, as we prepare for the emergence of the Supermind. Sri Aurobindo speaks about four stages of human evolution, which we will soon be starting to experience concurrently upon Earth. The first is �animal human,� our current species, a rational being possessing an individualized soul, but largely obstructed from contacting and merging with it.�Next is the �human human,� a species that is spontaneous- ly coming to birth under the influence of an ever-expanding supramental field, a being that is largely able to merge and live from soul-consciousness rather than mind-consciousness. Thirdly is the �Overman,� who will still inhabit a dense physical body, but will be in possession of the Mind of Light, which is supramental consciousness that has begun to merge with cellular consciousness. Finally, our ultimate goal as a species is the �Supramental Being,� divinity incarnated fully within the subtle realms of matter. This will be a race of what we could call �Descended Masters.� In this species, the unity of matter and spirit would be fully realized upon Earth. The great work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother was in bringing supramental consciousness down into the cellular consciousness of their own bodies. Since this is a unified consciousness, this meant that the supramental consciousness was simultaneously being brought into the consciousness fields of the Earth, awaiting the moment when it would flower into its full manifestation in collective matter.Whenever there is a �descent� there is corresponding resistance. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother speak of their experience with the four �Asuras,� essentially anti-divine forces, at work in the world today. There is the Asura of Darkness, the Asura of Suffering, The Asura of Falsehood, and the Asura of Death. These are the forces that are so outwardly apparent, and which seem to be in control of current global events. According to them the Asura of Darkness (Lucifer?) has gone through a transformation recently, and the Asura of Suffering has returned to Source, and so only the latter two still remain to wreak havoc on Earth. Interestingly, they spoke of the Asura of Falsehood �channeling� through Hitler during World War II, and of their own intensive inner work in countering his influence. It would not be difficult to see how this same Asura may be influencing other world leaders in the current political sphere. With the descent of this new vibratory consciousness all our old obsolete human structures will be demolished. However, Sri Aurobindo emphasized that although the changes will be enormous they would not be necessarily catastrophic. The power of Truth automatically erases Falsehood, and our world for the most part consists of Falsehood. Yet, the Supramental, he maintained, carried a power of harmonization which could overcome this resistance by means other than dramatic struggle and violence. The Asuras will eventually be absorbed into their original emanations of Light, Life, Beauty, and Truth. It may be interesting to speculate, with all the violence in the world today, the destruction we might have experienced if not for this power of harmonization! When does all this happen? Sri Aurobindo and the Mother believed that the world stage was set for this quantum descent, and that it was quite imminent. The Mother said in 1968 that the supramental transformation was a certainty now, and that it would come about with a minimum of destruction, �although this minimum is still considerable.� She said that the year 2000 would be a turning point. This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji says about changes coming in the world. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Dear Narasimhaji  Namaste,  Thanks for the detailed explanation. It really helps and I really appreciate your time & patience in explaining it so beautifully for a layman.  One followup question:  Regarding Homam - will it not depend on my chart? As per my chart (26/2/73, 17:07, 87E19,23N29, Leo Lagna) and my brief study of VRA/CoVA, My Isht devta will be Shiva(Sun), Palan devta is Samba siva (have not heard much about him) and Guru Devta is Skanada.  Further, As per inclination, I do feel great energy in SOME of shiva and ganesh temples(from last 3 years). It's a difficult to describe feeling - it's as if a spiritual energy/vibration is surrounding me. Recently, I went to a shani( w/Hanuman & Ganesha) temple, and it also seemed to have good vibration to me. How do I reconcile these facts on choosing the homam? Is it just the play of my mind to be ignored , or divine intervention to be interpreted. Or if Mahaganapathi Homam is THE starting point before we go ahead with any effort at reconciliation.  Thanks & Regards  Sanjay  On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Namaste,  (a) Correct. It is fine to work hard like a honeybee, be engrossed in material life and feel many happinesses and sadnesses of life. The only thing missed out is self-realization and moksha.  (b) Not exactly. Spiritual progress does not mean shunning material things. Some people leave wife, children, house, car etc and live in forest, in an attempt to get control over the mind and remove the attachment to and dependency on those things. However, it is not necessary. One can remove the dependency on all things that surround one, even as one remains in their middle! Staying away from something is neither necessary nor sufficient to overcome attachment. What things and people are around you and what actions you engage in are not the problem that blocks you from moksha. It is how you look at them and with what frame of mind you engage in the actions that are the blockages. So the problem is not the material world around you, but your own mind that is the problem. Detachment does not mean not loving or not engaging in actions. Detachment means loving but without expectations and engaging in actions but without expectations.  If you give love and do not expect anything in return, if you put in your best effort towards what you see as your dharma for people around you and do not worry about things that go wrong, if you focus on the present and engage in the best possible actions without too much of worry or anxiety about past or future, can there be anything more effective or efficient than that?  If one is like a drop of water on a lotus leaf and engages in actions without attachment, one is not necessarily a failure materially. Such a person will do everything a person with deep attachments does, but only better! I say better, because a detached person does not waste time worrying about things out of one's hand or things that went wrong. A detached person always focuses on the best action to engage in right now and does it.  Let me put this in one sentence: Attachment does not make you more effective or efficient. In fact, if anything, attachment makes you less effective and efficient. If you are detached, you will give unconditionally and engage in actions without any energy being dispersed on worrying over things out of your control. Normal people waste a lot of their time, energy and emotional space, worrying about things they cannot control. A detached person does what is in one's control perfectly and accepts the result whole-heartedly.  © If you are a jeevanmukta, you will do everything you see as your dharma, but only better. You will not feel happy or sad or jealous and angry etc. Your mind will be in a stable, peaceful and blissful state always. It is worth it. You are not getting out of anything, but putting in the best effort.  (e) Yes, do not think of emancipation or liberation. Think one small step at a time. Think of getting some physical and mental discipline. Think of some minor control over mind. Thinking overcoming minor weaknesses. Start slowly.  (f) There are many ways. The specific way using which many people will benefit in the next few centuries and the specific way which I am here to teach is " homam " or fire ritual. When you are with a person, the physical vibrations made by the person's lips can be heard physically by your ears. Similarly, the vibrations made by his subtle body and mind can be " heard " by your subtle body and mind. That is why we feel pleasant when we are with great saints and uneasy in some companies. The vibrations produced by the subtle and causal bodies of people around us do have an impact on us. Fire is one powerful object which has very pleasant, powerful and cleansing vibrations at the subtle and causal levels. Being next to fire of a reasonable size is like being with a great yogi.  If one does a 20-40 min Mahaganapathi homam everyday for 2-3 years, things will automatically start to fall in place.  The problem you are seeking is your mind. The solution is also in your mind. You use your mind to train mind to let go of its weaknesses and attachments one by one.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:17 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Dear Narasimha,  Very good article/discussion..Thanks for sharing it.  If I can, Let me also ask some basic questions. (I am very new to all this. Search for some answers has brought me to this forum.)  a) Why Madhukaitam is  so bad/evil? Is it not that the world is being sustained by people keeping their head down and doing the routine work? Do we not please the God by keeping our head down and playing the role assigned to us ? An obvious answer comes to mind is that it will keep us away from emancipation and/self-actualization. Correct/Incorrect?  b) So, Is spirituality and materialism two poles apart (and twain shall never meet..). Say I wd like to reach the heights of professional success in my career, Am I doomed not to become a good spiritualist (???)? or, If I want to become self-actualized by 2025, does it mean I should stop planning to climb the professional ladder? I do understand about " Limited Bandwidth " issue - but, then I also read about King Janak. Can I combine these two - if yes, how?  c) Getting even more confused now, Why do we say that emancipation is our spiritual goal. If GOD created us, and put us on this stage - should our goal not be to play the role dutifully, which God wants us to play. By seeking for emancipation, are we trying to get off the stage and trying to escape the role assigned to us. Are we not contradicting the God's scheme of things by trying to get out of the scheme?  d) Or, Is it part of God's scheme to put us in this " maya " first and then ask us to get out of the " maya " ? Why will he do so? I am sure he will not be playing " rats in the maze " game. Then, why??  e) Sometimes, I also think that all these above questions are meaningless. I look at my pre-school kid and the way she has put her faith in her teacher. She is not worrying about her profession or phd thesis right now. Similarly, probably, Emancipation/Merger in Cosmic soul etc are problems that we should not be thinking at the begining of our spiritual journey - just look to learn/experience more till we are ready (for what?)  f) Then, what do we mean by spiritual journey? where/how do we start? I thought about doing homam/reciting mantra - but is that the right way? or there is another way. Probably, there are many ways - then how do I choose my way? An " user guide " or " spirituality for dummies " book would have been useful. Do we have one?  I will appreciate if you can take some time out to guide me here. In fact, probably, I donot even have the right question right now - forget about articulating them well and seeking the answer (I am seeking the problem )  Regards  Sanjay  On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Namaste Rajarshi,  The non-dual Aatman or Brahman is the original source of everything. But the world of duality is a lot more tricky.  Please see the " many faced diamond " analogy for god at the end of /message/1 to get clarity on why different people give different hierarchies and consider different beings as supreme. As per Narayana sooktam, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Narayana. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Suryopanishat, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Surya. And so on.  The duality is so vast and yet non-duality is the underlying supreme reality in duality. Thus, the hierarchy within hierarchy will have to start at the connection with non-duality and it is not one. In other words, any hierarchy given by anyone is with respect to one perspective. I will not be too keen on finalizing one hierarchy, because that cannot be done really. If you haven't before, do read the analogy in the last part of the mail mentioned above. It is an analogy worth getting into your thinking system.  *       *       *  > I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions > or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish > to come true? Which one came first?  There is no causal relationship between the two. Actions of rishis and the will of the supreme cosmic being are in sync. They just happen together. Neither causes the other.  Rishis are the most perfected beings without a trace of ego and yet performing actions of great consequence, with zero attachment. They operate right on the border of duality and non-duality.  *       *       *  > As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I > pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that > Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity > therefore not as supreme as is made out to be?  Our ego does not leave us even in sadhana. Sometimes, one's belief that one's guru is the best guru or the god one prays to is the supreme one is rooted in one'e ego and one's need to be the best and be associated with the best. Just contemplate if that is the case and if it is, try to root out such thinking.  Having said that, do look at the god you pray to as the supreme and try to reach the supreme through him/her by surrendering to him/her. If you take a low level manifestation of that deity, then rishis may indeed be beyond him/her as Vimalananda said. But, if you take the highest manifestation of the deity, as the supreme cosmic being, then rishis are his playmates and neither above nor below.  *       *       *  If you take a company, there may be a chairman who may be the highest authority. But, it may be a ceremonial role and some may consider CEO to be higher while some may consider the chairman to be higher. Why bother about who is higher? In a company does well, they both work with understanding.  The hierarchy is irrelevant to one who is a clerk at the company. Just follow the order of your boss (guru) instead of wondering whether chairman calls the shots or CEO.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajarshi nandy Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:56 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Namaste Narasmihaji  I have a question. Though it will probably sound stupid to a learned man like you, but I just could not get a convincing answer to it, so thought of putting this question in this forum.  You mentioned that a senior Maharishi is doing this. In the books of Vimalananda he says Naths, Munis and Rishis are higher beings, even higher than deities.  What confuses me is that, what can be higher than a deity? For example Goddes Durga is the supreme mother of all worlds, then how can a Rishi or any being be higher than Her? Or lord Shiva or Narayana?  I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish to come true? Which one came first?  It gets confusing-.  As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity therefore not as supreme as is made out to be?  Sorry if these questions seem childish, but I really get confused thinking about this.  -Regards  Rajarshi  The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra --- On Mon, 22/6/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 9:32 AM  Namaste,  Aurobindo need not be talking about a single " savior " the way people may imagine. Also, he need not be talking about somebody " connected to " his ashram. Moreover, when it comes to great lineages, there are connections between all. For example, Aurobindo used to visit the house of Sister Nivedita, the foremost disciple of Swami Vivekananda and knew her well when he still lived in Calcutta. He had a vision in his prison cell of Swami Vivekananda, just a few years after his death, in which he imparted Aurobindo some key knowledge. Paramahamsa Yogananda grew up in Calcutta and learnt Sanskrit from M, who was a sishya of Ramakrishna and wrote the gospel of Ramakrishna. Trilinga Swami sent a tantra teacher to Ramakrishna to expand his knowledge. Trilinga Swami knew Lahiri mahashaya and admired him. And so on.  Coming back to the main point, the supermind established in the field of earth that was referred to by Aurobindo can simply be a maharshi paying some attention to matters on earth. A maharshi absorbed in the divine in one of the higher planes of consciousness can accomplish huge changes on earth by the mere power of his thought. If there is a divine play to make some positive changes on earth and a maharshi takes part in the play, he may focus a small part of his supermind on the affairs of earth and direct a few important souls to do some key work. Some important souls (deities, rishis or yogis etc) may send their amshas (partial essence) to be born on earth to fulfil different parts of a divine play.  You may then see several (not just one) elevated beings, enlightened beings and realized beings born on earth to bring clarity in different aspects of spiritual knowledge. Each of them will get specific internal/external guidance from the divine, based on what their part in the play is.  *       *       *  The " Asura of Falsehood " that Aurobindo alluded to is all around us. At the subtlest level, he manifests as false ego in pretty much everybody. At the grossest level, he manifests as blatant lies, wrong propaganda etc.  One should not tolerate this Asura (demon) and fight hard. However, one should not hate this Asura or those afflicted by him. When we encounter lies, we should fight and stand for truth but not hate the liar at the same time. There is nothing that needs to be hated in this world. One should learn to do the job assigned to one by Nature without attraction or repulsion to anything or anybody and with unconditional love (i.e. no expectations of a return) to all.  > This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji > says about changes coming in the world.  I know very little. But I was told that an age that is somewhat like the bygone ages will be established on earth for a few hundred years in the coming decades. The reason the Divine Mother appeared before Manish and asked him to spread simple homam procedures in the world was to prepare the grounds for that. Manish also told me that all this is the play of a senior maharshi.  Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Laxmi Narayan Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:50 PM Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness  Hi, Some time back I saw similar article and was intrigued by it. Who might be coming down to earth to help Human Beings?  Personally, I believe it was pointing towards Mother Meera. She is a Enlightened person and has helped thousands who go to her by removing some of their karmic cords. Although she now lives in Germany but in her younger days she was connected to Aurobindo;s ashram.  Regards,LaxmiNarayan --- On Fri, 19/6/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Friday, 19 June, 2009, 9:31 PM Namaste  I found an interesting article based on Sri Aurobindo's writing. I am posting it here for anyone interested.  Near the beginning of the 20th century the great Indian freedom fighter and yogi-sage, Sri Aurobindo, began to express a truth which had not been expressed before. In his high states of divine union he saw that the time had come for a new stage in the evolution of mankind. He saw that the divine was to manifest right here on Earth and that the time for this divine emergence into Earth life was now. He spoke of heaven descending to Earth, even as Earth experienced a breakdown due to the intrinsic resistance held within her material body towards this �descent.� �Sri Aurobindo was joined in Pondicherry, India, by a French mystic, Mirra Alfassa, who later became known as the Mother. Together they embarked on a journey of intensive cellular transformation that is very relevant to the colossal uncertainties we face today. �Sri Aurobindo saw that the divine force permeates all matter, and that all matter therefore has a force of consciousness. The process of the divine spirit descending down into matter is called involution. The process by which the divine ascends back upwards out of matter is called evolution. According to Sri Aurobindo, humanity has reached a stage where these two events are occurring simultaneously, and in his inner visions, he foresaw that we would soon be experiencing a descent of what he called �supramental (or monadic) consciousness� that would entirely change everything on Earth. �Man�s greatness is not in what he is, says Sri Aurobindo, but in what he makes possible. An immortal soul is somewhere within him, even if seldom active in most people, while an eternal spirit overshadows him, even if obstructed from descent by the hard lid of his constructed personality. There is a great divine plan in motion, even if the evidence of the outer senses seems to contradict it. Sri Aurobindo recognized that humankind is going through an evolutionary crisis. A stage has been reached in which the human mind has made tremendous strides on the one hand, but is left hopelessly inadequate to prevent its own extinction as a species. Meanwhile, as the Mother testified before her death in 1973, a consciousness higher than the human rational mind, what may be termed the Supermind, has recently been established in the fields of the Earth, and is active there. Our task now is to bring it down into cellular consciousness. Evolution took a great leap forward with the origins of Life, and later with the emergence of Mind. We are now at the threshold of another leap forward, even more momentous, as we prepare for the emergence of the Supermind. Sri Aurobindo speaks about four stages of human evolution, which we will soon be starting to experience concurrently upon Earth. The first is �animal human,� our current species, a rational being possessing an individualized soul, but largely obstructed from contacting and merging with it. �Next is the �human human,� a species that is spontaneous- ly coming to birth under the influence of an ever-expanding supramental field, a being that is largely able to merge and live from soul-consciousness rather than mind-consciousness.  Thirdly is the �Overman,� who will still inhabit a dense physical body, but will be in possession of the Mind of Light, which is supramental consciousness that has begun to merge with cellular consciousness.  Finally, our ultimate goal as a species is the �Supramental Being,� divinity incarnated fully within the subtle realms of matter. This will be a race of what we could call �Descended Masters.� In this species, the unity of matter and spirit would be fully realized upon Earth. The great work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother was in bringing supramental consciousness down into the cellular consciousness of their own bodies. Since this is a unified consciousness, this meant that the supramental consciousness was simultaneously being brought into the consciousness fields of the Earth, awaiting the moment when it would flower into its full manifestation in collective matter. Whenever there is a �descent� there is corresponding resistance. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother speak of their experience with the four �Asuras,� essentially anti-divine forces, at work in the world today. There is the Asura of Darkness, the Asura of Suffering, The Asura of Falsehood, and the Asura of Death. These are the forces that are so outwardly apparent, and which seem to be in control of current global events. According to them the Asura of Darkness (Lucifer?) has gone through a transformation recently, and the Asura of Suffering has returned to Source, and so only the latter two still remain to wreak havoc on Earth. Interestingly, they spoke of the Asura of Falsehood �channeling� through Hitler during World War II, and of their own intensive inner work in countering his influence. It would not be difficult to see how this same Asura may be influencing other world leaders in the current political sphere. With the descent of this new vibratory consciousness all our old obsolete human structures will be demolished. However, Sri Aurobindo emphasized that although the changes will be enormous they would not be necessarily catastrophic. The power of Truth automatically erases Falsehood, and our world for the most part consists of Falsehood. Yet, the Supramental, he maintained, carried a power of harmonization which could overcome this resistance by means other than dramatic struggle and violence. The Asuras will eventually be absorbed into their original emanations of Light, Life, Beauty, and Truth. It may be interesting to speculate, with all the violence in the world today, the destruction we might have experienced if not for this power of harmonization! When does all this happen? Sri Aurobindo and the Mother believed that the world stage was set for this quantum descent, and that it was quite imminent. The Mother said in 1968 that the supramental transformation was a certainty now, and that it would come about with a minimum of destruction, �although this minimum is still considerable.� She said that the year 2000 would be a turning point.  This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji says about changes coming in the world.  -Regards  Rajarshi  The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009  Dear Sanjay, Yes, the right deity who takes one far changes from from person to person. Horoscope can give clues, but our understanding may or may not be perfect always. For example, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's chart has Sun (Raama/Maatangi in general opinion) in 12th from Atma Karaka in navamsa and Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa) owns it. A highly learned astrologer once argued with me publicly that Lord Rama and Taaraa were Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's ishta devatas and not Kaali and tried to justify that. Well, if Ramakrishna Paramahamsa comes to you and the thumb rules you use do not show Kaali as ishta devata for him, the rules you are using have something missing. Thus, horoscopic thumb rules are not reliable. However, the vibrations you feel when chanting different mantras and visiting different temples can be useful clues. The word of a sadguru is the best way to know one's ishta devata. Second best is internal guidance. Horscope comes only after that. Irrespective of ishta devata, I will recommend Mahaganapathi homam for anybody for a while. After Ganapathi gives an initial clearance and push, the path will become clear by itself and clear guidance will come, from either inside our outside. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:35 AM Re: Sanjay's Spirituality Query Dear Narasimhaji Namaste, Thanks for the detailed explanation. It really helps and I really appreciate your time & patience in explaining it so beautifully for a layman. One followup question: Regarding Homam - will it not depend on my chart? As per my chart (26/2/73, 17:07, 87E19,23N29, Leo Lagna) and my brief study of VRA/CoVA, My Isht devta will be Shiva(Sun), Palan devta is Samba siva (have not heard much about him) and Guru Devta is Skanada. Further, As per inclination, I do feel great energy in SOME of shiva and ganesh temples(from last 3 years). It's a difficult to describe feeling - it's as if a spiritual energy/vibration is surrounding me. Recently, I went to a shani( w/Hanuman & Ganesha) temple, and it also seemed to have good vibration to me. How do I reconcile these facts on choosing the homam? Is it just the play of my mind to be ignored , or divine intervention to be interpreted. Or if Mahaganapathi Homam is THE starting point before we go ahead with any effort at reconciliation. Thanks & Regards Sanjay On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Namaste, (a) Correct. It is fine to work hard like a honeybee, be engrossed in material life and feel many happinesses and sadnesses of life. The only thing missed out is self-realization and moksha. (b) Not exactly. Spiritual progress does not mean shunning material things. Some people leave wife, children, house, car etc and live in forest, in an attempt to get control over the mind and remove the attachment to and dependency on those things. However, it is not necessary. One can remove the dependency on all things that surround one, even as one remains in their middle! Staying away from something is neither necessary nor sufficient to overcome attachment. What things and people are around you and what actions you engage in are not the problem that blocks you from moksha. It is how you look at them and with what frame of mind you engage in the actions that are the blockages. So the problem is not the material world around you, but your own mind that is the problem. Detachment does not mean not loving or not engaging in actions. Detachment means loving but without expectations and engaging in actions but without expectations. If you give love and do not expect anything in return, if you put in your best effort towards what you see as your dharma for people around you and do not worry about things that go wrong, if you focus on the present and engage in the best possible actions without too much of worry or anxiety about past or future, can there be anything more effective or efficient than that? If one is like a drop of water on a lotus leaf and engages in actions without attachment, one is not necessarily a failure materially. Such a person will do everything a person with deep attachments does, but only better! I say better, because a detached person does not waste time worrying about things out of one's hand or things that went wrong. A detached person always focuses on the best action to engage in right now and does it. Let me put this in one sentence: Attachment does not make you more effective or efficient. In fact, if anything, attachment makes you less effective and efficient. If you are detached, you will give unconditionally and engage in actions without any energy being dispersed on worrying over things out of your control. Normal people waste a lot of their time, energy and emotional space, worrying about things they cannot control. A detached person does what is in one's control perfectly and accepts the result whole-heartedly. © If you are a jeevanmukta, you will do everything you see as your dharma, but only better. You will not feel happy or sad or jealous and angry etc. Your mind will be in a stable, peaceful and blissful state always. It is worth it. You are not getting out of anything, but putting in the best effort. (e) Yes, do not think of emancipation or liberation. Think one small step at a time. Think of getting some physical and mental discipline. Think of some minor control over mind. Thinking overcoming minor weaknesses. Start slowly. (f) There are many ways. The specific way using which many people will benefit in the next few centuries and the specific way which I am here to teach is "homam" or fire ritual. When you are with a person, the physical vibrations made by the person's lips can be heard physically by your ears. Similarly, the vibrations made by his subtle body and mind can be "heard" by your subtle body and mind. That is why we feel pleasant when we are with great saints and uneasy in some companies. The vibrations produced by the subtle and causal bodies of people around us do have an impact on us. Fire is one powerful object which has very pleasant, powerful and cleansing vibrations at the subtle and causal levels. Being next to fire of a reasonable size is like being with a great yogi. If one does a 20-40 min Mahaganapathi homam everyday for 2-3 years, things will automatically start to fall in place. The problem you are seeking is your mind. The solution is also in your mind. You use your mind to train mind to let go of its weaknesses and attachments one by one. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:17 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Dear Narasimha, Very good article/discussion..Thanks for sharing it. If I can, Let me also ask some basic questions. (I am very new to all this. Search for some answers has brought me to this forum.) a) Why Madhukaitam is so bad/evil? Is it not that the world is being sustained by people keeping their head down and doing the routine work? Do we not please the God by keeping our head down and playing the role assigned to us ? An obvious answer comes to mind is that it will keep us away from emancipation and/self-actualization. Correct/Incorrect? b) So, Is spirituality and materialism two poles apart (and twain shall never meet..). Say I wd like to reach the heights of professional success in my career, Am I doomed not to become a good spiritualist (???)? or, If I want to become self-actualized by 2025, does it mean I should stop planning to climb the professional ladder? I do understand about "Limited Bandwidth" issue - but, then I also read about King Janak. Can I combine these two - if yes, how? c) Getting even more confused now, Why do we say that emancipation is our spiritual goal. If GOD created us, and put us on this stage - should our goal not be to play the role dutifully, which God wants us to play. By seeking for emancipation, are we trying to get off the stage and trying to escape the role assigned to us. Are we not contradicting the God's scheme of things by trying to get out of the scheme? d) Or, Is it part of God's scheme to put us in this "maya" first and then ask us to get out of the "maya"? Why will he do so? I am sure he will not be playing "rats in the maze" game. Then, why?? e) Sometimes, I also think that all these above questions are meaningless. I look at my pre-school kid and the way she has put her faith in her teacher. She is not worrying about her profession or phd thesis right now. Similarly, probably, Emancipation/Merger in Cosmic soul etc are problems that we should not be thinking at the begining of our spiritual journey - just look to learn/experience more till we are ready (for what?) f) Then, what do we mean by spiritual journey? where/how do we start? I thought about doing homam/reciting mantra - but is that the right way? or there is another way. Probably, there are many ways - then how do I choose my way? An "user guide" or " spirituality for dummies" book would have been useful. Do we have one? I will appreciate if you can take some time out to guide me here. In fact, probably, I donot even have the right question right now - forget about articulating them well and seeking the answer (I am seeking the problem ) Regards Sanjay On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Namaste Rajarshi, The non-dual Aatman or Brahman is the original source of everything. But the world of duality is a lot more tricky. Please see the "many faced diamond" analogy for god at the end of /message/1 to get clarity on why different people give different hierarchies and consider different beings as supreme. As per Narayana sooktam, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Narayana. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Suryopanishat, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Surya. And so on. The duality is so vast and yet non-duality is the underlying supreme reality in duality. Thus, the hierarchy within hierarchy will have to start at the connection with non-duality and it is not one. In other words, any hierarchy given by anyone is with respect to one perspective. I will not be too keen on finalizing one hierarchy, because that cannot be done really. If you haven't before, do read the analogy in the last part of the mail mentioned above. It is an analogy worth getting into your thinking system. * * * > I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions > or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish > to come true? Which one came first? There is no causal relationship between the two. Actions of rishis and the will of the supreme cosmic being are in sync. They just happen together. Neither causes the other. Rishis are the most perfected beings without a trace of ego and yet performing actions of great consequence, with zero attachment. They operate right on the border of duality and non-duality. * * * > As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I > pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that > Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity > therefore not as supreme as is made out to be? Our ego does not leave us even in sadhana. Sometimes, one's belief that one's guru is the best guru or the god one prays to is the supreme one is rooted in one'e ego and one's need to be the best and be associated with the best. Just contemplate if that is the case and if it is, try to root out such thinking. Having said that, do look at the god you pray to as the supreme and try to reach the supreme through him/her by surrendering to him/her. If you take a low level manifestation of that deity, then rishis may indeed be beyond him/her as Vimalananda said. But, if you take the highest manifestation of the deity, as the supreme cosmic being, then rishis are his playmates and neither above nor below. * * * If you take a company, there may be a chairman who may be the highest authority. But, it may be a ceremonial role and some may consider CEO to be higher while some may consider the chairman to be higher. Why bother about who is higher? In a company does well, they both work with understanding. The hierarchy is irrelevant to one who is a clerk at the company. Just follow the order of your boss (guru) instead of wondering whether chairman calls the shots or CEO. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajarshi nandy Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:56 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Namaste Narasmihaji I have a question. Though it will probably sound stupid to a learned man like you, but I just could not get a convincing answer to it, so thought of putting this question in this forum. You mentioned that a senior Maharishi is doing this. In the books of Vimalananda he says Naths, Munis and Rishis are higher beings, even higher than deities. What confuses me is that, what can be higher than a deity? For example Goddes Durga is the supreme mother of all worlds, then how can a Rishi or any being be higher than Her? Or lord Shiva or Narayana? I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish to come true? Which one came first? It gets confusing-. As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity therefore not as supreme as is made out to be? Sorry if these questions seem childish, but I really get confused thinking about this. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 9:32 AM  Namaste, Aurobindo need not be talking about a single "savior" the way people may imagine. Also, he need not be talking about somebody "connected to" his ashram. Moreover, when it comes to great lineages, there are connections between all. For example, Aurobindo used to visit the house of Sister Nivedita, the foremost disciple of Swami Vivekananda and knew her well when he still lived in Calcutta. He had a vision in his prison cell of Swami Vivekananda, just a few years after his death, in which he imparted Aurobindo some key knowledge. Paramahamsa Yogananda grew up in Calcutta and learnt Sanskrit from M, who was a sishya of Ramakrishna and wrote the gospel of Ramakrishna. Trilinga Swami sent a tantra teacher to Ramakrishna to expand his knowledge. Trilinga Swami knew Lahiri mahashaya and admired him. And so on. Coming back to the main point, the supermind established in the field of earth that was referred to by Aurobindo can simply be a maharshi paying some attention to matters on earth. A maharshi absorbed in the divine in one of the higher planes of consciousness can accomplish huge changes on earth by the mere power of his thought. If there is a divine play to make some positive changes on earth and a maharshi takes part in the play, he may focus a small part of his supermind on the affairs of earth and direct a few important souls to do some key work. Some important souls (deities, rishis or yogis etc) may send their amshas (partial essence) to be born on earth to fulfil different parts of a divine play. You may then see several (not just one) elevated beings, enlightened beings and realized beings born on earth to bring clarity in different aspects of spiritual knowledge. Each of them will get specific internal/external guidance from the divine, based on what their part in the play is. * * * The "Asura of Falsehood" that Aurobindo alluded to is all around us. At the subtlest level, he manifests as false ego in pretty much everybody. At the grossest level, he manifests as blatant lies, wrong propaganda etc. One should not tolerate this Asura (demon) and fight hard. However, one should not hate this Asura or those afflicted by him. When we encounter lies, we should fight and stand for truth but not hate the liar at the same time. There is nothing that needs to be hated in this world. One should learn to do the job assigned to one by Nature without attraction or repulsion to anything or anybody and with unconditional love (i.e. no expectations of a return) to all. > This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji > says about changes coming in the world. I know very little. But I was told that an age that is somewhat like the bygone ages will be established on earth for a few hundred years in the coming decades. The reason the Divine Mother appeared before Manish and asked him to spread simple homam procedures in the world was to prepare the grounds for that. Manish also told me that all this is the play of a senior maharshi. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Laxmi Narayan Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:50 PM Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Hi, Some time back I saw similar article and was intrigued by it. Who might be coming down to earth to help Human Beings? Personally, I believe it was pointing towards Mother Meera. She is a Enlightened person and has helped thousands who go to her by removing some of their karmic cords. Although she now lives in Germany but in her younger days she was connected to Aurobindo;s ashram. Regards,LaxmiNarayan --- On Fri, 19/6/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> Descent of the Supramenal ConscinousnessFriday, 19 June, 2009, 9:31 PM Namaste I found an interesting article based on Sri Aurobindo's writing. I am posting it here for anyone interested. Near the beginning of the 20th century the great Indian freedom fighter and yogi-sage, Sri Aurobindo, began to express a truth which had not been expressed before. In his high states of divine union he saw that the time had come for a new stage in the evolution of mankind. He saw that the divine was to manifest right here on Earth and that the time for this divine emergence into Earth life was now. He spoke of heaven descending to Earth, even as Earth experienced a breakdown due to the intrinsic resistance held within her material body towards this �descent.��Sri Aurobindo was joined in Pondicherry, India, by a French mystic, Mirra Alfassa, who later became known as the Mother. Together they embarked on a journey of intensive cellular transformation that is very relevant to the colossal uncertainties we face today.�Sri Aurobindo saw that the divine force permeates all matter, and that all matter therefore has a force of consciousness. The process of the divine spirit descending down into matter is called involution. The process by which the divine ascends back upwards out of matter is called evolution. According to Sri Aurobindo, humanity has reached a stage where these two events are occurring simultaneously, and in his inner visions, he foresaw that we would soon be experiencing a descent of what he called �supramental (or monadic) consciousness� that would entirely change everything on Earth.�Man�s greatness is not in what he is, says Sri Aurobindo, but in what he makes possible. An immortal soul is somewhere within him, even if seldom active in most people, while an eternal spirit overshadows him, even if obstructed from descent by the hard lid of his constructed personality. There is a great divine plan in motion, even if the evidence of the outer senses seems to contradict it. Sri Aurobindo recognized that humankind is going through an evolutionary crisis. A stage has been reached in which the human mind has made tremendous strides on the one hand, but is left hopelessly inadequate to prevent its own extinction as a species. Meanwhile, as the Mother testified before her death in 1973, a consciousness higher than the human rational mind, what may be termed the Supermind, has recently been established in the fields of the Earth, and is active there. Our task now is to bring it down into cellular consciousness. Evolution took a great leap forward with the origins of Life, and later with the emergence of Mind. We are now at the threshold of another leap forward, even more momentous, as we prepare for the emergence of the Supermind. Sri Aurobindo speaks about four stages of human evolution, which we will soon be starting to experience concurrently upon Earth. The first is �animal human,� our current species, a rational being possessing an individualized soul, but largely obstructed from contacting and merging with it.�Next is the �human human,� a species that is spontaneous- ly coming to birth under the influence of an ever-expanding supramental field, a being that is largely able to merge and live from soul-consciousness rather than mind-consciousness. Thirdly is the �Overman,� who will still inhabit a dense physical body, but will be in possession of the Mind of Light, which is supramental consciousness that has begun to merge with cellular consciousness. Finally, our ultimate goal as a species is the �Supramental Being,� divinity incarnated fully within the subtle realms of matter. This will be a race of what we could call �Descended Masters.� In this species, the unity of matter and spirit would be fully realized upon Earth. The great work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother was in bringing supramental consciousness down into the cellular consciousness of their own bodies. Since this is a unified consciousness, this meant that the supramental consciousness was simultaneously being brought into the consciousness fields of the Earth, awaiting the moment when it would flower into its full manifestation in collective matter.Whenever there is a �descent� there is corresponding resistance. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother speak of their experience with the four �Asuras,� essentially anti-divine forces, at work in the world today. There is the Asura of Darkness, the Asura of Suffering, The Asura of Falsehood, and the Asura of Death. These are the forces that are so outwardly apparent, and which seem to be in control of current global events. According to them the Asura of Darkness (Lucifer?) has gone through a transformation recently, and the Asura of Suffering has returned to Source, and so only the latter two still remain to wreak havoc on Earth. Interestingly, they spoke of the Asura of Falsehood �channeling� through Hitler during World War II, and of their own intensive inner work in countering his influence. It would not be difficult to see how this same Asura may be influencing other world leaders in the current political sphere. With the descent of this new vibratory consciousness all our old obsolete human structures will be demolished. However, Sri Aurobindo emphasized that although the changes will be enormous they would not be necessarily catastrophic. The power of Truth automatically erases Falsehood, and our world for the most part consists of Falsehood. Yet, the Supramental, he maintained, carried a power of harmonization which could overcome this resistance by means other than dramatic struggle and violence. The Asuras will eventually be absorbed into their original emanations of Light, Life, Beauty, and Truth. It may be interesting to speculate, with all the violence in the world today, the destruction we might have experienced if not for this power of harmonization! When does all this happen? Sri Aurobindo and the Mother believed that the world stage was set for this quantum descent, and that it was quite imminent. The Mother said in 1968 that the supramental transformation was a certainty now, and that it would come about with a minimum of destruction, �although this minimum is still considerable.� She said that the year 2000 would be a turning point. This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji says about changes coming in the world. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Thanks a ton...It helps a lot.  On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Dear Sanjay,  Yes, the right deity who takes one far changes from from person to person. Horoscope can give clues, but our understanding may or may not be perfect always. For example, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's chart has Sun (Raama/Maatangi in general opinion) in 12th from Atma Karaka in navamsa and Jupiter (Vaamana/Taaraa) owns it. A highly learned astrologer once argued with me publicly that Lord Rama and Taaraa were Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's ishta devatas and not Kaali and tried to justify that. Well, if Ramakrishna Paramahamsa comes to you and the thumb rules you use do not show Kaali as ishta devata for him, the rules you are using have something missing.  Thus, horoscopic thumb rules are not reliable. However, the vibrations you feel when chanting different mantras and visiting different temples can be useful clues. The word of a sadguru is the best way to know one's ishta devata. Second best is internal guidance. Horscope comes only after that.  Irrespective of ishta devata, I will recommend Mahaganapathi homam for anybody for a while. After Ganapathi gives an initial clearance and push, the path will become clear by itself and clear guidance will come, from either inside our outside.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:35 AM Re: Sanjay's Spirituality Query Dear Narasimhaji  Namaste,  Thanks for the detailed explanation. It really helps and I really appreciate your time & patience in explaining it so beautifully for a layman.  One followup question:  Regarding Homam - will it not depend on my chart? As per my chart (26/2/73, 17:07, 87E19,23N29, Leo Lagna) and my brief study of VRA/CoVA, My Isht devta will be Shiva(Sun), Palan devta is Samba siva (have not heard much about him) and Guru Devta is Skanada.  Further, As per inclination, I do feel great energy in SOME of shiva and ganesh temples(from last 3 years). It's a difficult to describe feeling - it's as if a spiritual energy/vibration is surrounding me. Recently, I went to a shani( w/Hanuman & Ganesha) temple, and it also seemed to have good vibration to me. How do I reconcile these facts on choosing the homam? Is it just the play of my mind to be ignored , or divine intervention to be interpreted. Or if Mahaganapathi Homam is THE starting point before we go ahead with any effort at reconciliation.  Thanks & Regards  Sanjay  On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Namaste,  (a) Correct. It is fine to work hard like a honeybee, be engrossed in material life and feel many happinesses and sadnesses of life. The only thing missed out is self-realization and moksha.  (b) Not exactly. Spiritual progress does not mean shunning material things. Some people leave wife, children, house, car etc and live in forest, in an attempt to get control over the mind and remove the attachment to and dependency on those things. However, it is not necessary. One can remove the dependency on all things that surround one, even as one remains in their middle! Staying away from something is neither necessary nor sufficient to overcome attachment. What things and people are around you and what actions you engage in are not the problem that blocks you from moksha. It is how you look at them and with what frame of mind you engage in the actions that are the blockages. So the problem is not the material world around you, but your own mind that is the problem. Detachment does not mean not loving or not engaging in actions. Detachment means loving but without expectations and engaging in actions but without expectations.  If you give love and do not expect anything in return, if you put in your best effort towards what you see as your dharma for people around you and do not worry about things that go wrong, if you focus on the present and engage in the best possible actions without too much of worry or anxiety about past or future, can there be anything more effective or efficient than that?  If one is like a drop of water on a lotus leaf and engages in actions without attachment, one is not necessarily a failure materially. Such a person will do everything a person with deep attachments does, but only better! I say better, because a detached person does not waste time worrying about things out of one's hand or things that went wrong. A detached person always focuses on the best action to engage in right now and does it.  Let me put this in one sentence: Attachment does not make you more effective or efficient. In fact, if anything, attachment makes you less effective and efficient. If you are detached, you will give unconditionally and engage in actions without any energy being dispersed on worrying over things out of your control. Normal people waste a lot of their time, energy and emotional space, worrying about things they cannot control. A detached person does what is in one's control perfectly and accepts the result whole-heartedly.  © If you are a jeevanmukta, you will do everything you see as your dharma, but only better. You will not feel happy or sad or jealous and angry etc. Your mind will be in a stable, peaceful and blissful state always. It is worth it. You are not getting out of anything, but putting in the best effort.  (e) Yes, do not think of emancipation or liberation. Think one small step at a time. Think of getting some physical and mental discipline. Think of some minor control over mind. Thinking overcoming minor weaknesses. Start slowly.  (f) There are many ways. The specific way using which many people will benefit in the next few centuries and the specific way which I am here to teach is " homam " or fire ritual. When you are with a person, the physical vibrations made by the person's lips can be heard physically by your ears. Similarly, the vibrations made by his subtle body and mind can be " heard " by your subtle body and mind. That is why we feel pleasant when we are with great saints and uneasy in some companies. The vibrations produced by the subtle and causal bodies of people around us do have an impact on us. Fire is one powerful object which has very pleasant, powerful and cleansing vibrations at the subtle and causal levels. Being next to fire of a reasonable size is like being with a great yogi.  If one does a 20-40 min Mahaganapathi homam everyday for 2-3 years, things will automatically start to fall in place.  The problem you are seeking is your mind. The solution is also in your mind. You use your mind to train mind to let go of its weaknesses and attachments one by one.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Sanjay Prasad Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:17 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Dear Narasimha,  Very good article/discussion..Thanks for sharing it.  If I can, Let me also ask some basic questions. (I am very new to all this. Search for some answers has brought me to this forum.)  a) Why Madhukaitam is  so bad/evil? Is it not that the world is being sustained by people keeping their head down and doing the routine work? Do we not please the God by keeping our head down and playing the role assigned to us ? An obvious answer comes to mind is that it will keep us away from emancipation and/self-actualization. Correct/Incorrect?  b) So, Is spirituality and materialism two poles apart (and twain shall never meet..). Say I wd like to reach the heights of professional success in my career, Am I doomed not to become a good spiritualist (???)? or, If I want to become self-actualized by 2025, does it mean I should stop planning to climb the professional ladder? I do understand about " Limited Bandwidth " issue - but, then I also read about King Janak. Can I combine these two - if yes, how?  c) Getting even more confused now, Why do we say that emancipation is our spiritual goal. If GOD created us, and put us on this stage - should our goal not be to play the role dutifully, which God wants us to play. By seeking for emancipation, are we trying to get off the stage and trying to escape the role assigned to us. Are we not contradicting the God's scheme of things by trying to get out of the scheme?  d) Or, Is it part of God's scheme to put us in this " maya " first and then ask us to get out of the " maya " ? Why will he do so? I am sure he will not be playing " rats in the maze " game. Then, why??  e) Sometimes, I also think that all these above questions are meaningless. I look at my pre-school kid and the way she has put her faith in her teacher. She is not worrying about her profession or phd thesis right now. Similarly, probably, Emancipation/Merger in Cosmic soul etc are problems that we should not be thinking at the begining of our spiritual journey - just look to learn/experience more till we are ready (for what?)  f) Then, what do we mean by spiritual journey? where/how do we start? I thought about doing homam/reciting mantra - but is that the right way? or there is another way. Probably, there are many ways - then how do I choose my way? An " user guide " or " spirituality for dummies " book would have been useful. Do we have one?  I will appreciate if you can take some time out to guide me here. In fact, probably, I donot even have the right question right now - forget about articulating them well and seeking the answer (I am seeking the problem )  Regards  Sanjay  On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:  Namaste Rajarshi,  The non-dual Aatman or Brahman is the original source of everything. But the world of duality is a lot more tricky.  Please see the " many faced diamond " analogy for god at the end of /message/1 to get clarity on why different people give different hierarchies and consider different beings as supreme. As per Narayana sooktam, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Narayana. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Ganapathi Atharva seersham, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Ganapathi. As per Suryopanishat, all gods (including Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Indra etc) came from Surya. And so on.  The duality is so vast and yet non-duality is the underlying supreme reality in duality. Thus, the hierarchy within hierarchy will have to start at the connection with non-duality and it is not one. In other words, any hierarchy given by anyone is with respect to one perspective. I will not be too keen on finalizing one hierarchy, because that cannot be done really. If you haven't before, do read the analogy in the last part of the mail mentioned above. It is an analogy worth getting into your thinking system.  *       *       *  > I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions > or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish > to come true? Which one came first?  There is no causal relationship between the two. Actions of rishis and the will of the supreme cosmic being are in sync. They just happen together. Neither causes the other.  Rishis are the most perfected beings without a trace of ego and yet performing actions of great consequence, with zero attachment. They operate right on the border of duality and non-duality.  *       *       *  > As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I > pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that > Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity > therefore not as supreme as is made out to be?  Our ego does not leave us even in sadhana. Sometimes, one's belief that one's guru is the best guru or the god one prays to is the supreme one is rooted in one'e ego and one's need to be the best and be associated with the best. Just contemplate if that is the case and if it is, try to root out such thinking.  Having said that, do look at the god you pray to as the supreme and try to reach the supreme through him/her by surrendering to him/her. If you take a low level manifestation of that deity, then rishis may indeed be beyond him/her as Vimalananda said. But, if you take the highest manifestation of the deity, as the supreme cosmic being, then rishis are his playmates and neither above nor below.  *       *       *  If you take a company, there may be a chairman who may be the highest authority. But, it may be a ceremonial role and some may consider CEO to be higher while some may consider the chairman to be higher. Why bother about who is higher? In a company does well, they both work with understanding.  The hierarchy is irrelevant to one who is a clerk at the company. Just follow the order of your boss (guru) instead of wondering whether chairman calls the shots or CEO.  Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajarshi nandy Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:56 AM Re: Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Namaste Narasmihaji  I have a question. Though it will probably sound stupid to a learned man like you, but I just could not get a convincing answer to it, so thought of putting this question in this forum.  You mentioned that a senior Maharishi is doing this. In the books of Vimalananda he says Naths, Munis and Rishis are higher beings, even higher than deities.  What confuses me is that, what can be higher than a deity? For example Goddes Durga is the supreme mother of all worlds, then how can a Rishi or any being be higher than Her? Or lord Shiva or Narayana?  I mean is it the Rishi who is acting our the Mother's instructions or is it She who is creating the environment for the Rishi's wish to come true? Which one came first?  It gets confusing-.  As a devotee it is natural and simple to believe that the God I pray to is the Ultimate Supreme authority, but when I hear that Rishis are even beyond this, then doubt creeps in, is the deity therefore not as supreme as is made out to be?  Sorry if these questions seem childish, but I really get confused thinking about this.  -Regards  Rajarshi  The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra --- On Mon, 22/6/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 9:32 AM  Namaste,  Aurobindo need not be talking about a single " savior " the way people may imagine. Also, he need not be talking about somebody " connected to " his ashram. Moreover, when it comes to great lineages, there are connections between all. For example, Aurobindo used to visit the house of Sister Nivedita, the foremost disciple of Swami Vivekananda and knew her well when he still lived in Calcutta. He had a vision in his prison cell of Swami Vivekananda, just a few years after his death, in which he imparted Aurobindo some key knowledge. Paramahamsa Yogananda grew up in Calcutta and learnt Sanskrit from M, who was a sishya of Ramakrishna and wrote the gospel of Ramakrishna. Trilinga Swami sent a tantra teacher to Ramakrishna to expand his knowledge. Trilinga Swami knew Lahiri mahashaya and admired him. And so on.  Coming back to the main point, the supermind established in the field of earth that was referred to by Aurobindo can simply be a maharshi paying some attention to matters on earth. A maharshi absorbed in the divine in one of the higher planes of consciousness can accomplish huge changes on earth by the mere power of his thought. If there is a divine play to make some positive changes on earth and a maharshi takes part in the play, he may focus a small part of his supermind on the affairs of earth and direct a few important souls to do some key work. Some important souls (deities, rishis or yogis etc) may send their amshas (partial essence) to be born on earth to fulfil different parts of a divine play.  You may then see several (not just one) elevated beings, enlightened beings and realized beings born on earth to bring clarity in different aspects of spiritual knowledge. Each of them will get specific internal/external guidance from the divine, based on what their part in the play is.  *       *       *  The " Asura of Falsehood " that Aurobindo alluded to is all around us. At the subtlest level, he manifests as false ego in pretty much everybody. At the grossest level, he manifests as blatant lies, wrong propaganda etc.  One should not tolerate this Asura (demon) and fight hard. However, one should not hate this Asura or those afflicted by him. When we encounter lies, we should fight and stand for truth but not hate the liar at the same time. There is nothing that needs to be hated in this world. One should learn to do the job assigned to one by Nature without attraction or repulsion to anything or anybody and with unconditional love (i.e. no expectations of a return) to all.  > This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji > says about changes coming in the world.  I know very little. But I was told that an age that is somewhat like the bygone ages will be established on earth for a few hundred years in the coming decades. The reason the Divine Mother appeared before Manish and asked him to spread simple homam procedures in the world was to prepare the grounds for that. Manish also told me that all this is the play of a senior maharshi.  Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Laxmi Narayan Sunday, June 21, 2009 6:50 PM Re: Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness  Hi, Some time back I saw similar article and was intrigued by it. Who might be coming down to earth to help Human Beings?  Personally, I believe it was pointing towards Mother Meera. She is a Enlightened person and has helped thousands who go to her by removing some of their karmic cords. Although she now lives in Germany but in her younger days she was connected to Aurobindo;s ashram.  Regards,LaxmiNarayan --- On Fri, 19/6/09, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in> Descent of the Supramenal Conscinousness Friday, 19 June, 2009, 9:31 PM Namaste  I found an interesting article based on Sri Aurobindo's writing. I am posting it here for anyone interested.  Near the beginning of the 20th century the great Indian freedom fighter and yogi-sage, Sri Aurobindo, began to express a truth which had not been expressed before. In his high states of divine union he saw that the time had come for a new stage in the evolution of mankind. He saw that the divine was to manifest right here on Earth and that the time for this divine emergence into Earth life was now. He spoke of heaven descending to Earth, even as Earth experienced a breakdown due to the intrinsic resistance held within her material body towards this �descent.� �Sri Aurobindo was joined in Pondicherry, India, by a French mystic, Mirra Alfassa, who later became known as the Mother. Together they embarked on a journey of intensive cellular transformation that is very relevant to the colossal uncertainties we face today. �Sri Aurobindo saw that the divine force permeates all matter, and that all matter therefore has a force of consciousness. The process of the divine spirit descending down into matter is called involution. The process by which the divine ascends back upwards out of matter is called evolution. According to Sri Aurobindo, humanity has reached a stage where these two events are occurring simultaneously, and in his inner visions, he foresaw that we would soon be experiencing a descent of what he called �supramental (or monadic) consciousness� that would entirely change everything on Earth. �Man�s greatness is not in what he is, says Sri Aurobindo, but in what he makes possible. An immortal soul is somewhere within him, even if seldom active in most people, while an eternal spirit overshadows him, even if obstructed from descent by the hard lid of his constructed personality. There is a great divine plan in motion, even if the evidence of the outer senses seems to contradict it. Sri Aurobindo recognized that humankind is going through an evolutionary crisis. A stage has been reached in which the human mind has made tremendous strides on the one hand, but is left hopelessly inadequate to prevent its own extinction as a species. Meanwhile, as the Mother testified before her death in 1973, a consciousness higher than the human rational mind, what may be termed the Supermind, has recently been established in the fields of the Earth, and is active there. Our task now is to bring it down into cellular consciousness. Evolution took a great leap forward with the origins of Life, and later with the emergence of Mind. We are now at the threshold of another leap forward, even more momentous, as we prepare for the emergence of the Supermind. Sri Aurobindo speaks about four stages of human evolution, which we will soon be starting to experience concurrently upon Earth. The first is �animal human,� our current species, a rational being possessing an individualized soul, but largely obstructed from contacting and merging with it. �Next is the �human human,� a species that is spontaneous- ly coming to birth under the influence of an ever-expanding supramental field, a being that is largely able to merge and live from soul-consciousness rather than mind-consciousness.  Thirdly is the �Overman,� who will still inhabit a dense physical body, but will be in possession of the Mind of Light, which is supramental consciousness that has begun to merge with cellular consciousness.  Finally, our ultimate goal as a species is the �Supramental Being,� divinity incarnated fully within the subtle realms of matter. This will be a race of what we could call �Descended Masters.� In this species, the unity of matter and spirit would be fully realized upon Earth. The great work of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother was in bringing supramental consciousness down into the cellular consciousness of their own bodies. Since this is a unified consciousness, this meant that the supramental consciousness was simultaneously being brought into the consciousness fields of the Earth, awaiting the moment when it would flower into its full manifestation in collective matter. Whenever there is a �descent� there is corresponding resistance. Sri Aurobindo and the Mother speak of their experience with the four �Asuras,� essentially anti-divine forces, at work in the world today. There is the Asura of Darkness, the Asura of Suffering, The Asura of Falsehood, and the Asura of Death. These are the forces that are so outwardly apparent, and which seem to be in control of current global events. According to them the Asura of Darkness (Lucifer?) has gone through a transformation recently, and the Asura of Suffering has returned to Source, and so only the latter two still remain to wreak havoc on Earth. Interestingly, they spoke of the Asura of Falsehood �channeling� through Hitler during World War II, and of their own intensive inner work in countering his influence. It would not be difficult to see how this same Asura may be influencing other world leaders in the current political sphere. With the descent of this new vibratory consciousness all our old obsolete human structures will be demolished. However, Sri Aurobindo emphasized that although the changes will be enormous they would not be necessarily catastrophic. The power of Truth automatically erases Falsehood, and our world for the most part consists of Falsehood. Yet, the Supramental, he maintained, carried a power of harmonization which could overcome this resistance by means other than dramatic struggle and violence. The Asuras will eventually be absorbed into their original emanations of Light, Life, Beauty, and Truth. It may be interesting to speculate, with all the violence in the world today, the destruction we might have experienced if not for this power of harmonization! When does all this happen? Sri Aurobindo and the Mother believed that the world stage was set for this quantum descent, and that it was quite imminent. The Mother said in 1968 that the supramental transformation was a certainty now, and that it would come about with a minimum of destruction, �although this minimum is still considerable.� She said that the year 2000 would be a turning point.  This was a very interesting read and matches what Narasimhaji says about changes coming in the world.  -Regards  Rajarshi  The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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