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Dear Narasimha,

 

In your spiritual studies have you ever come across the concept of Achintya Bheda Abheda?

 

Here are some quick links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achintya_Bheda_Abheda

 

http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/bmgs/caitanya/tattva.htm

 

 

For some years I have wanted to ask your thoughts on this...

 

Best wishes

 

Kasim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> > pvr Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:30:49 -0500> Power of Duality (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today)> > Namaste Dinesh,> > > One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> > reincarnation of someone else,> > Your skepticism is justified.> > The duality is infinite and impossible to master. Even great jnaanis are > occasionally deluded by Her power. One can understand unmanifested non-dual > Brahman, but one cannot hope to understand the dual world fully ever. She is > capable of deluding even the greatest sadhaka with a wrong idea as soon as > one ventures into duality. She can mislead *anyone* on *anything*. What She > does and why She does that is so difficult to fathom. The only way to deal > with Her is to surrender to Her power *fully*.> > > on the other hand we are all a part of Divinity> > BTW, though we are all part of the same Divinity, we are all not the same. > In the non-dual field, we are all the same. But, in the field of duality, we > have differences due to previous vasanas (conditioning), which decide what > and how much we can do within the dual world. When a being like Krishna is > born with 16 kalas, He can do *anything* with the objects of the dual world. > When a being like Sai Baba is born with 2 or 3 kalas, He can do a lot of > things in the dual world that are impossible for others.> > Realizing the non-dual Self is something that is possible for anyone, but > there are limits imposed on what things one can do in the dual world, based > on the force of previous conditioning. Thus, all are the same at one > (non-dual) level and all are different at another (dual) level.> > But it is tough to know for sure what one's caliber is. Thus, your basic > point holds. But I just wanted to point that all are not indeed the same. We > should be disinterested in knowing who is what, not because all are the > same, but because we have no surefire way to know who is what.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > - > "Dinesh Nambisan" <dinesh> > Monday, November 10, 2008 7:54 PM> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today> > > || Om Lokaah Samastaah Sukhino Bhavantuh ||> > Does it matter at all who is whose reincarnation? And anyway, how will> you distinguish when *those* very folks have gone beyond the meaning> of "I"? What you can only do (well, at least, IMHO) is consider> yourself blessed to read about or be part of their lives...> One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> reincarnation of someone else, on the other hand we are all a part of> Divinity, so why bother arguing over trivial things.> > What the Learned say is to pick one, and surrender yourself totally.> Me, I cant figure out who to pick to surrender to... :-) Just my> opinion, I could be wrong, and I say it with all due respect...> Best,> ./Dinesh> > , "m540i98" <m540i98 wrote:> >> > Namaste> >> > Both these are very credible saints. Sri Yogeshwar was a very highly> > realized saint. His book is very good. He does mention about his> > prevoius birth and also mentions that Saccha Baba had also confirmed> > the same thing. Saccha Baba was another very highly realized saint too.> >> > Sri Yogeshwar had many times visions of Sai Baba of shirdi and Naamdev> > and also many other saints too. The initiation he got on the bank of> > river Narmada awakened his kundalini and he has described very> > accurately the state and symptoms after awekaning of kunalini. He had> > very good command on all aspects of sprituality and was a fantastic> > orator. His followers have done a very good job of putting up the web> > site and sharing the information for free both audio and books.> >> > Chiti Leela or the play of Shakti or God is very complex, Ramakrishna> > may have taken birth as more than one person and in future may take> > more births.> >> > His comsic body (karan sharir) or whatever name others use pardon my> > lack of appropriate word, is also alive and manifest from time to time> > After reading this and other books, I feel that each one of us has a> > inner guru along with our atma and this inner guru in conjunction with> > our accumulated or sanchit sankaras give us visions of these mahatmas> > or help us attach or attract to a Saint or some aspects of the saint> > more than others. This inner guru is the same in all humam beings but> > manifests uniquely based on each person.> >> > I also believe that one needs to get initiated by a Guru who is> > present in physical form and seek guidance from him time to time.> > There are many instances of other forms of inititations like> > initiation in dream or inititation by cosmic forms, these forms of> > initiations though very important are very rare or uncommon.> >> >> > After reading Sri Yogeshwar's book I had some questions pop up in my> > mind about him.> >> > 1) What was the purpose of his birth? Yes he may have guided many> > spiritual aspirants, but there has to be something more unique.> > 2) Did he realize the ultimate? i.e. he keeps mentioning in the book> > about it in many places? Was he satisfied? How did he feel after that?> > 3) He did pass away abruptly in bombay while in the middle of giving> > spirtual talks? It seems unusual.> >> > I have also read somewhere that once a person reaches a spiritual> > state, he cannot remain in human body for more than few days, was this> > the case?> >> > May be others who have read this book can share more light.> > I do recommend to seekers of spirutuality to read this book if one has> > time, it is available for free to download as a pdf book on his web> site.> >> > Sri Ram Sharma also has done a lot of work for the betterment and> > upliftment, a lot of his information is wellknown. He spread the Devi> > Gayatri mantra/homa and other things in a big way all around india.> >> > I feel like I have not even begun my spiritual journey which is very> > very long too and many obstacles in the path.> >> >> > Best Regards> > Mitesh> >> > , "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.> > >> > > Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that> > > Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about> > > his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that> > > he was Thakur Ramkrishna in the previous birth.> > >> > > Yours,> > >> > > Utpal> > >> > > I know> > >> > >> > > , "Shiv" <theblisswithin@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Ashwinji> > > > This is a very good and inspiring thread.> > > > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting> > > insight.> > > > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his> > > > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and> > > Will,> > > > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting> > > for> > > > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru> > > > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives> > > and> > > > gave him the work for this life.> > > > He took him back as in a flash to the past. He realised that he had> > > > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru> > > of> > > > Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.> > > >> > > > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general site is> > > > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English> > > somewhere> > > > online. It's in the very first few chapters.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > > Shiv> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@>> > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devine experience> > > > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience that I> > > > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am writing> > > exactly> > > > as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of> > > 1973/74.> > > > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.> > > > > Â> > > > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near> > > Dwarka.> > > > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance> > > for> > > > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post> > > > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some> > > Telephone> > > > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr. Patel)> > > > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri> > > > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking> > > about> > > > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly> > > gathering at> > > > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created> > > by> > > > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna> > > > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly> > > meeting> > > > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30> > > > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after duty hours> > > > and were talking only about Thakur.> > > > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--> > > â?oRawalbhai,> > > > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My> > > son> > > > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to go nowâ?. -> > > -> > > > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.> > > > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane> > > crash> > > > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about> > > him.> > > > He could foresee the events. One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,> > > he> > > > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. Yet I> > > > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was> > > punctured> > > > on the way. This was surprising.> > > > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super> > > power> > > > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to> > > > shri Thakur. One day I thought, I should also be disciple of shri> > > > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered> > > myself> > > > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed> > > him> > > > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his> > > grace.> > > > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning> > > > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was> > > waking> > > > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have> > > > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and> > > she> > > > argued with me a lot. â?"â?oWhy should you take such a hasty> > > decision?> > > > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali at Calcutta. He> > > was a> > > > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,> > > give> > > > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya> > > > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?--.> > > > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not> > > know> > > > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken> > > > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --> > > > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur was telling> > > > their disciples to test him before accepting him. I also decided to> > > > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â?"â?oSee, Mr. Patel> > > has> > > > never come to our home. You have also not seen him. He has never> > > asked> > > > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house> > > within> > > > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakur is> > > > perfect?â?--> > > > > She laughed at meâ?"â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?-> > > -> > > > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my> > > > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence> > > even> > > > today.â?T> > > > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the> > > > morning with angry mood. What he told?> > > > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know what happened?> > > > Yesterday was my night duty and I had just come to my home at 05.30> > > > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. Suddenly Thakur> > > > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts> > > house. He> > > > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his> > > houseâ?> > > > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way> > > to> > > > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are> > > disturbing> > > > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T> > > > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that> > > > Morning.> > > > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.> > > There> > > > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur but I will> > > write> > > > it sometime.> > > > > Dear Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the> > > > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to> > > > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.> > > > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad> > > ---> > || Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||>

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There was a song by the same name, interesting -:)

 

"This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Kasim Khan <kasim_ch wrote:

Kasim Khan <kasim_ch Achintya Bheda Abheda , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr, pvr108, "Robert Koch" <rk, "Sanjay Rath" <gurujiTuesday, 11 November, 2008, 4:46 PM

 

 

Dear Narasimha, In your spiritual studies have you ever come across the concept of Achintya Bheda Abheda? Here are some quick links:http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Achintya_ Bheda_Abheda http://www.harekrsn a.com/philosophy /bmgs/caitanya/ tattva.htm For some years I have wanted to ask your thoughts on this... Best wishes Kasim > > pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:30:49 -0500> Power of Duality (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today)> > Namaste

Dinesh,> > > One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> > reincarnation of someone else,> > Your skepticism is justified.> > The duality is infinite and impossible to master. Even great jnaanis are > occasionally deluded by Her power. One can understand unmanifested non-dual > Brahman, but one cannot hope to understand the dual world fully ever. She is > capable of deluding even the greatest sadhaka with a wrong idea as soon as > one ventures into duality. She can mislead *anyone* on *anything*. What She > does and why She does that is so difficult to fathom. The only way to deal > with Her is to surrender to Her power *fully*.> > > on the other hand we are all a part of Divinity> > BTW, though we are all part of the same Divinity, we are all not the same. > In the non-dual field, we are all the same.

But, in the field of duality, we > have differences due to previous vasanas (conditioning) , which decide what > and how much we can do within the dual world. When a being like Krishna is > born with 16 kalas, He can do *anything* with the objects of the dual world. > When a being like Sai Baba is born with 2 or 3 kalas, He can do a lot of > things in the dual world that are impossible for others.> > Realizing the non-dual Self is something that is possible for anyone, but > there are limits imposed on what things one can do in the dual world, based > on the force of previous conditioning. Thus, all are the same at one > (non-dual) level and all are different at another (dual) level.> > But it is tough to know for sure what one's caliber is. Thus, your basic > point holds. But I just wanted to point that all are not indeed the same. We > should be

disinterested in knowing who is what, not because all are the > same, but because we have no surefire way to know who is what.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > - > "Dinesh Nambisan" <dinesh (AT) nambisan (DOT) net>> <>> Monday,

November 10, 2008 7:54 PM> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today> > > || Om Lokaah Samastaah Sukhino Bhavantuh ||> > Does it matter at all who is whose reincarnation? And anyway, how will> you distinguish when *those* very folks have gone beyond the meaning> of "I"? What you can only do (well, at least, IMHO) is consider> yourself blessed to read about or be part of their lives...> One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> reincarnation of someone else, on the other hand we are all a part of> Divinity, so why bother arguing over trivial things.> > What the Learned say is to pick one, and surrender yourself totally.> Me, I cant figure out who to pick to surrender to... :-) Just my> opinion, I could be wrong, and I say it with all due respect...> Best,> ./Dinesh> > --- In

, "m540i98" <m540i98 wrote:> >> > Namaste> >> > Both these are very credible saints. Sri Yogeshwar was a very highly> > realized saint. His book is very good. He does mention about his> > prevoius birth and also mentions that Saccha Baba had also confirmed> > the same thing. Saccha Baba was another very highly realized saint too.> >> > Sri Yogeshwar had many times visions of Sai Baba of shirdi and Naamdev> > and also many other saints too. The initiation he got on the bank of> > river Narmada awakened his kundalini and he has described very> > accurately the state and symptoms after awekaning of kunalini. He had> > very good command on all aspects of sprituality and was a fantastic> > orator. His followers have done a very good job of putting up the web> > site and

sharing the information for free both audio and books.> >> > Chiti Leela or the play of Shakti or God is very complex, Ramakrishna> > may have taken birth as more than one person and in future may take> > more births.> >> > His comsic body (karan sharir) or whatever name others use pardon my> > lack of appropriate word, is also alive and manifest from time to time> > After reading this and other books, I feel that each one of us has a> > inner guru along with our atma and this inner guru in conjunction with> > our accumulated or sanchit sankaras give us visions of these mahatmas> > or help us attach or attract to a Saint or some aspects of the saint> > more than others. This inner guru is the same in all humam beings but> > manifests uniquely based on each person.> >> > I also believe that one needs to get

initiated by a Guru who is> > present in physical form and seek guidance from him time to time.> > There are many instances of other forms of inititations like> > initiation in dream or inititation by cosmic forms, these forms of> > initiations though very important are very rare or uncommon.> >> >> > After reading Sri Yogeshwar's book I had some questions pop up in my> > mind about him.> >> > 1) What was the purpose of his birth? Yes he may have guided many> > spiritual aspirants, but there has to be something more unique.> > 2) Did he realize the ultimate? i.e. he keeps mentioning in the book> > about it in many places? Was he satisfied? How did he feel after that?> > 3) He did pass away abruptly in bombay while in the middle of giving> > spirtual talks? It seems unusual.> >> > I have

also read somewhere that once a person reaches a spiritual> > state, he cannot remain in human body for more than few days, was this> > the case?> >> > May be others who have read this book can share more light.> > I do recommend to seekers of spirutuality to read this book if one has> > time, it is available for free to download as a pdf book on his web> site.> >> > Sri Ram Sharma also has done a lot of work for the betterment and> > upliftment, a lot of his information is wellknown. He spread the Devi> > Gayatri mantra/homa and other things in a big way all around india.> >> > I feel like I have not even begun my spiritual journey which is very> > very long too and many obstacles in the path.> >> >> > Best Regards> > Mitesh> >> > @

. com, "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.> > >> > > Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that> > > Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about> > > his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that> > > he was Thakur Ramkrishna in the previous birth.> > >> > > Yours,> > >> > > Utpal> > >> > > I know> > >> > >> > > , "Shiv" <theblisswithin@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected

Ashwinji> > > > This is a very good and inspiring thread.> > > > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting> > > insight.> > > > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his> > > > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and> > > Will,> > > > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting> > > for> > > > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru> > > > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives> > > and> > > > gave him the work for this life.> > > > He took him back as in a flash to the past. He realised that he had> > > > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru> > > of> > > >

Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.> > > >> > > > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general site is> > > > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English> > > somewhere> > > > online. It's in the very first few chapters.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > > Shiv> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@>> > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devine experience> > > > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience that I> > > > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am

writing> > > exactly> > > > as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of> > > 1973/74.> > > > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.> > > > > Â> > > > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near> > > Dwarka.> > > > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance> > > for> > > > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post> > > > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some> > > Telephone> > > > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr. Patel)> > > > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri> > > > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking> > >

about> > > > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly> > > gathering at> > > > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created> > > by> > > > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna> > > > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly> > > meeting> > > > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30> > > > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after duty hours> > > > and were talking only about Thakur.> > > > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--> > > â?oRawalbhai,> > > > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My> > > son> > > > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to

go nowâ?�. -> > > -> > > > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.> > > > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane> > > crash> > > > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about> > > him.> > > > He could foresee the events. One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,> > > he> > > > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. Yet I> > > > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was> > > punctured> > > > on the way. This was surprising.> > > > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super> > > power> > > > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to> > > > shri Thakur. One day I

thought, I should also be disciple of shri> > > > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered> > > myself> > > > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed> > > him> > > > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his> > > grace.> > > > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning> > > > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was> > > waking> > > > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have> > > > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and> > > she> > > > argued with me a lot. â?"â?oWhy should you take such a hasty> > > decision?> > > > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali

at Calcutta. He> > > was a> > > > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,> > > give> > > > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya> > > > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?�--.> > > > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not> > > know> > > > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken> > > > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --> > > > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur was telling> > > > their disciples to test him before accepting him. I also decided to> > > > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â?"â?oSee, Mr. Patel> > > has> > > > never come to our home. You have

also not seen him. He has never> > > asked> > > > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house> > > within> > > > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakur is> > > > perfect?â?�--> > > > > She laughed at meâ?"â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?�-> > > -> > > > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my> > > > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence> > > even> > > > today.â?T> > > > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the> > > > morning with angry mood. What he told?> > > > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know what happened?> > > > Yesterday was my night duty and I had

just come to my home at 05.30> > > > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. Suddenly Thakur> > > > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts> > > house. He> > > > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his> > > houseâ?�> > > > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way> > > to> > > > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are> > > disturbing> > > > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T> > > > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that> > > > Morning.> > > > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.> > > There> > > > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur

but I will> > > write> > > > it sometime.> > > > > Dear Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the> > > > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to> > > > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.> > > > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > || Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||>

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Namaste Kasim,

 

Yes, I have read Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's achintya-bheda-abheda teachings, just as I have read the dwaita teachings of Madhvacharya, visishtaadwaita teachings of Ramanujacharya and adwaita teachings of Shankaracharya. *My* view on those teachings is captured well by Swami Turiyananda, an enlightened sishya of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, in a letter he wrote to Swami Sharvananda on 1919 April 18 at Varanasi:

 

"The ultimate Truth is one and nodual. It is called by various names: Brahman, Paramatman, Bhagavan [Lord], God, and so on. Whoever has realized that Truth has tried to express it according to his own temperament and understanding by giving it a particular name. But nobody has been able to express the whole truth. "What he is, he is" - that is the final conclusion of those who have realized him.

 

"From different standpoints, Gaudapada's doctrine of no creation, Shakara's doctrine of superimposition, Ramanuja's doctrine of transformation, and [sri Kantha's] doctrine of Shivadvaita - each one of these is true. Again, apart from all these doctrines, he is beyond all human expression and beyond cognition of mind. The founders of all these philosophical systems practised austerities, and having received God's grace, they preached the various doctrines at his command. God is the subject from which these doctrines evolved, but he himself is beyond them."

 

* * *

 

The nature of god and this creation are inexpressible in words and can only be experienced directly. Even one who experienced cannot express accurately, for it is inexpressible by definition. I see no point in engaging in arguments on various doctrines. I firmly believe that Chaitanya, Shankara, Madhva and Ramanuja were all perfected beings who experienced the highest Truth that is there to experience. Yet, they ended up expressing what they experienced in different words. Personally, I think that a discussion on who is more correct is useless, as nobody can accurately capture the nature and relationship between god and his creation in *words*. One should instead undertake individual spiritual sadhana to realize him by direct experience.

 

* * *

 

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to refer to a statement of Lord Hanuman. Hanuman said to Rama, "O Lord, while I identify myself with the body I am your servant. When I consider myself as an individual soul, I am a part of you. And when I look upon myself as the Atman, I am one with you - this is my firm conviction."

 

It is not useful to debate exactly which statement above is more correct. Most of us cannot relate to anything above. Most of us cannot drop individual self-identification to "look upon self as the Atman". Most of us cannot even identify with individual *soul*. Most of us cannot rise above the body and mind. Most of us are only able to identify ourselves with a mass of flesh and blood that perishes sooner or later. Most of us are only able to identify ourselves with a restless monkey called mind that tortures itself in the jaws of six relentless enemies called desire, anger, greed, delusion, wantonness and jealosy, which are all children of a monster called ego. Most of us are only able to identify ourselves with a name and an image that give pride oneday and shame another and happiness oneday and sadness another.

 

For such people, a comparison of the states experienced when one self-identifies with different entities is useless. It is like a poor person in India without a passport or a ration card wondering whether to go to US for vacation or to UK or to Italy. It is a theoretical discussion. One should first accumulate some money and get a passport. Similarly, one should do spiritual sadhana and reduce ego and refine one's self-identification.

 

* * *

 

I humbly suggest that one should follow the teachings of the Teacher one likes. More than what you believe is the final destination of your travel, the immediate steps you take are important in deciding the success of your spiritual journey.

 

If praise makes you happy and criticism makes you sad, if pleasures excite you and pains depress you, if beautiful things attract you and ugly things repel you, you have some progress to make in terms of control over mind, irrespective of the final destination of your spiritual journey. Whether the final destination is Delhi or Agra or Benares, one at Kanya Kumari will have to first start walking towards north. Follow your chosen path and purify your consciousness and self-identification. Reduce ego and increase surrender. THAT will keep you in good stead.

 

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

-

Kasim Khan

; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao ; pvr108 ; Robert Koch ; Sanjay Rath

Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:16 AM

Achintya Bheda Abheda

Dear Narasimha, In your spiritual studies have you ever come across the concept of Achintya Bheda Abheda? Here are some quick links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achintya_Bheda_Abheda http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/bmgs/caitanya/tattva.htm For some years I have wanted to ask your thoughts on this... Best wishes Kasim > > pvr Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:30:49 -0500> Power of Duality (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today)> > Namaste Dinesh,> > > One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> > reincarnation of someone else,> > Your skepticism is justified.> > The duality is infinite and impossible to master. Even great jnaanis are > occasionally deluded by Her power. One can understand unmanifested non-dual > Brahman, but one cannot hope to understand the dual world fully ever. She is > capable of deluding even the greatest sadhaka with a wrong idea as soon as > one ventures into duality. She can mislead *anyone* on *anything*. What She > does and why She does that is so difficult to fathom. The only way to deal > with Her is to surrender to Her power *fully*.> > > on the other hand we are all a part of Divinity> > BTW, though we are all part of the same Divinity, we are all not the same. > In the non-dual field, we are all the same. But, in the field of duality, we > have differences due to previous vasanas (conditioning), which decide what > and how much we can do within the dual world. When a being like Krishna is > born with 16 kalas, He can do *anything* with the objects of the dual world. > When a being like Sai Baba is born with 2 or 3 kalas, He can do a lot of > things in the dual world that are impossible for others.> > Realizing the non-dual Self is something that is possible for anyone, but > there are limits imposed on what things one can do in the dual world, based > on the force of previous conditioning. Thus, all are the same at one > (non-dual) level and all are different at another (dual) level.> > But it is tough to know for sure what one's caliber is. Thus, your basic > point holds. But I just wanted to point that all are not indeed the same. We > should be disinterested in knowing who is what, not because all are the > same, but because we have no surefire way to know who is what.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > - > "Dinesh Nambisan" <dinesh> > Monday, November 10, 2008 7:54 PM> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today> > > || Om Lokaah Samastaah Sukhino Bhavantuh ||> > Does it matter at all who is whose reincarnation? And anyway, how will> you distinguish when *those* very folks have gone beyond the meaning> of "I"? What you can only do (well, at least, IMHO) is consider> yourself blessed to read about or be part of their lives...> One part of me is skeptical whenever someone claims to be a> reincarnation of someone else, on the other hand we are all a part of> Divinity, so why bother arguing over trivial things.> > What the Learned say is to pick one, and surrender yourself totally.> Me, I cant figure out who to pick to surrender to... :-) Just my> opinion, I could be wrong, and I say it with all due respect...> Best,> ./Dinesh> > , "m540i98" <m540i98 wrote:> >> > Namaste> >> > Both these are very credible saints. Sri Yogeshwar was a very highly> > realized saint. His book is very good. He does mention about his> > prevoius birth and also mentions that Saccha Baba had also confirmed> > the same thing. Saccha Baba was another very highly realized saint too.> >> > Sri Yogeshwar had many times visions of Sai Baba of shirdi and Naamdev> > and also many other saints too. The initiation he got on the bank of> > river Narmada awakened his kundalini and he has described very> > accurately the state and symptoms after awekaning of kunalini. He had> > very good command on all aspects of sprituality and was a fantastic> > orator. His followers have done a very good job of putting up the web> > site and sharing the information for free both audio and books.> >> > Chiti Leela or the play of Shakti or God is very complex, Ramakrishna> > may have taken birth as more than one person and in future may take> > more births.> >> > His comsic body (karan sharir) or whatever name others use pardon my> > lack of appropriate word, is also alive and manifest from time to time> > After reading this and other books, I feel that each one of us has a> > inner guru along with our atma and this inner guru in conjunction with> > our accumulated or sanchit sankaras give us visions of these mahatmas> > or help us attach or attract to a Saint or some aspects of the saint> > more than others. This inner guru is the same in all humam beings but> > manifests uniquely based on each person.> >> > I also believe that one needs to get initiated by a Guru who is> > present in physical form and seek guidance from him time to time.> > There are many instances of other forms of inititations like> > initiation in dream or inititation by cosmic forms, these forms of> > initiations though very important are very rare or uncommon.> >> >> > After reading Sri Yogeshwar's book I had some questions pop up in my> > mind about him.> >> > 1) What was the purpose of his birth? Yes he may have guided many> > spiritual aspirants, but there has to be something more unique.> > 2) Did he realize the ultimate? i.e. he keeps mentioning in the book> > about it in many places? Was he satisfied? How did he feel after that?> > 3) He did pass away abruptly in bombay while in the middle of giving> > spirtual talks? It seems unusual.> >> > I have also read somewhere that once a person reaches a spiritual> > state, he cannot remain in human body for more than few days, was this> > the case?> >> > May be others who have read this book can share more light.> > I do recommend to seekers of spirutuality to read this book if one has> > time, it is available for free to download as a pdf book on his web> site.> >> > Sri Ram Sharma also has done a lot of work for the betterment and> > upliftment, a lot of his information is wellknown. He spread the Devi> > Gayatri mantra/homa and other things in a big way all around india.> >> > I feel like I have not even begun my spiritual journey which is very> > very long too and many obstacles in the path.> >> >> > Best Regards> > Mitesh> >> > , "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Namaste,> > >> > > one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.> > >> > > Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that> > > Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about> > > his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that> > > he was Thakur Ramkrishna in the previous birth.> > >> > > Yours,> > >> > > Utpal> > >> > > I know> > >> > >> > > , "Shiv" <theblisswithin@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Ashwinji> > > > This is a very good and inspiring thread.> > > > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting> > > insight.> > > > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his> > > > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and> > > Will,> > > > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting> > > for> > > > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru> > > > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives> > > and> > > > gave him the work for this life.> > > > He took him back as in a flash to the past. He realised that he had> > > > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru> > > of> > > > Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.> > > >> > > > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general site is> > > > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English> > > somewhere> > > > online. It's in the very first few chapters.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > > Shiv> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@>> > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devine experience> > > > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience that I> > > > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am writing> > > exactly> > > > as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of> > > 1973/74.> > > > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.> > > > > Â> > > > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near> > > Dwarka.> > > > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance> > > for> > > > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post> > > > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some> > > Telephone> > > > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr. Patel)> > > > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri> > > > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking> > > about> > > > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly> > > gathering at> > > > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created> > > by> > > > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna> > > > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly> > > meeting> > > > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30> > > > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after duty hours> > > > and were talking only about Thakur.> > > > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--> > > â?oRawalbhai,> > > > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My> > > son> > > > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to go nowâ?. -> > > -> > > > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.> > > > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane> > > crash> > > > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about> > > him.> > > > He could foresee the events. One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,> > > he> > > > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. Yet I> > > > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was> > > punctured> > > > on the way. This was surprising.> > > > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super> > > power> > > > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to> > > > shri Thakur. One day I thought, I should also be disciple of shri> > > > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered> > > myself> > > > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed> > > him> > > > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his> > > grace.> > > > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning> > > > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was> > > waking> > > > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have> > > > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and> > > she> > > > argued with me a lot. â?"â?oWhy should you take such a hasty> > > decision?> > > > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali at Calcutta. He> > > was a> > > > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,> > > give> > > > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma> > > Acharya> > > > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?--.> > > > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not> > > know> > > > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken> > > > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --> > > > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur was telling> > > > their disciples to test him before accepting him. I also decided to> > > > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â?"â?oSee, Mr. Patel> > > has> > > > never come to our home. You have also not seen him. He has never> > > asked> > > > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house> > > within> > > > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakur is> > > > perfect?â?--> > > > > She laughed at meâ?"â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?-> > > -> > > > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my> > > > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence> > > even> > > > today.â?T> > > > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the> > > > morning with angry mood. What he told?> > > > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know what happened?> > > > Yesterday was my night duty and I had just come to my home at 05.30> > > > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. Suddenly Thakur> > > > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts> > > house. He> > > > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his> > > houseâ?> > > > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way> > > to> > > > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are> > > disturbing> > > > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T> > > > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that> > > > Morning.> > > > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.> > > There> > > > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur but I will> > > write> > > > it sometime.> > > > > Dear Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the> > > > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to> > > > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.> > > > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad

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