Experiences (Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today)

[Guest guest]

Dear Utpal,

 

> what i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of not

> experiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still one

> is really making good progress?

 

One person may be seeing visions of deities, experiencing mystical things

and another person may not be experiencing any such " extraordinary " things.

Yet, the latter may realize Self first. It IS possible.

 

Believe me, all it takes for Her is a split second to turn a fool into a

self-realized person.

 

You will do yourself a big favor if you take the thoughts of " extraordinary

experiences " off your mind. These expectations are a big obstacle.

 

If you normally feel sad or angry or upset when someone criticizes you badly

and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a

" tangible " sign of progress? If you normally feel elated when someone

praises you to the sky and you are now able to feel normal in that

situation, isn't that a " tangible " sign of progress?

 

Instead of focusing your senses outward and looking for some miracle or an

" extraordinaty experience " , focus your senses inward, watch your thoughts

and instincts closely and refine them. Try to reach a state where criticism

and praise are the same for you.

 

That will put you in a good stead. THAT is real progress. If you make real

progress and do not bother about any " extraordinary experiences " , you may

indeed have an extraordinary experience oneday! Not the one that gets you

stuck with a sense of possessiveness or entitlement, but the one that frees

you.

 

> If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it is

> quite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along with

> some out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some times

> temporarily disappoints me.

 

One can get stuck in some expectations that are unknowingly formed in the

mind based on what one read or heard.

 

One can get stuck in possessiveness or a sense of entitlement over an

" extraordinary experience " that actually happened to him.

 

One can get stuck in many ways.

 

If you do not want to get stuck, have no expectations. Have no sense of

ownership over anything. Surrender to Her fully, not because it will give X

or Y or Z, but because everything is really Hers. Keep looking at yourself

and your own actions/thoughts and refine them to make the sense of surrender

fuller and fuller. And expect to get nothing from Her in return for that

surrender. That is a surefire way to succeed in one's spiritual pursuit.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

-

" utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak

 

Monday, November 10, 2008 11:59 AM

Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today

 

 

Namaste Garu,

 

>

> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit from

>them. Beings

 

>Our goal should be to eradicate

>personal ego through constant vigilance and total surrender.

 

I am inspired by many saints and Thakur being the most prominent of

them. Sri Sri Ravishankar is the one who i know to be a really great

spiritual teacher, however i found my guru in you.

 

I highly appreciate your clarity of thoughts and found many

simmilarity in our attitude and thoughts over years, however i know

for sure that there is a big gulf between our level of consciousness.

 

through some of your messages on list as well as personla mails, i am

completely convinced about one thing which is mentioned below

 

- Barometer of spiritual growth is the reduction of I ness (limited

ego) viz-a-viz increase of surrender. the feeling of being an

instrument in the hand of Mother/god/nature increases

 

what i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of not

experiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still one

is really making good progress?

 

If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it is

quite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along with

some out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some times

temporarily disappoints me.

 

i feel that i'll never be convinced unless i get the concrete proof

of the subtle world.

 

Yours,

 

utpal

 

 

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste Utpal,

>

> My best wishes to all on the occasion of Ksheeraabdhi Dwaadashi!

>

> One of the two saints could be Thakur. It is also possible that

neither is

> Thakur.

>

> Bottomline is that it does not really matter!

>

> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit from

them. Beings

> like Thakur are born out of free volition and out of compassion for

other

> beings. They are the playmates of the Mother and are reborn as a

part of Her

> plan. They are born to show the path to others. However, there are

many

> paths. In each life, they may take up a different mission and

demonstrate

> different paths to people through their teachings and deeds. If you

like the

> teachings of such a being in a specific birth, due to some rina

with the

> path taught in that birth, follow the teachings of that birth. Who

else the

> same being was in other births is not that relevant or useful.

>

> If you are attracted to the teachings of any saint - Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa

> or Shriram Sharma Acharya or Yogeshwar ji or Ramana Maharshi or

Aurobindo or

> Srila Prabhupada or Akkalkot Maharaj or Sai Baba or Kabir or

Samartha

> Ramadas or Jnaneshwar Maharaj or Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or

Ramanujacharya or

> Raghavedra Swami or Gautama Buddha or Jesus Christ or whoever,

follow the

> teachings of that saint and benefit from them. Other speculative

things

> about them may be interesting, but can turn out to be a mere

distraction.

>

> Find the teachings and path that attracts you the most. Read the

teachings.

> More importantly, try to *walk* the path. Imbibe the teachings in

your

> thinking and in your common sense. Your actions and thoughts should

reflect

> the teachings. Focus on the teachings of the saint, digest them

fully and

> base your thoughts and actions on them.

>

> * * *

>

> Regarding Ramakrishna, I want to say one thing. The extent to which

he

> imbibed the upanishadic philosophy in his thoughts and actions, the

depth of

> his sense of surrender to the Mother and the absolute lack of

personal ego

> in him are the real miracles to me. Other miracles are useful to

instill

> faith and confidence in some people. But they do not do justice to

his

> personality. In fact, Swami Vivekananda was very conscious of

possibly

> limiting Thakur's personality to a bunch of miracles and was

concerned if

> books on him would be able to do justice to his personality.

>

> If Ramakrishna Paramahamsa tranformed a bunch of youngsters into

spiritual

> giants who affected the spirituality of generations and if Srila

Prabhupada

> transformed many fallen souls into excellent saints who changed the

world,

> it was possible because of their *total* surrender to the Lord and

the

> zeroness of their personal ego. *That* is a true miracle.

>

> I do not want to downplay the discussion of other tangible

miracles. But I

> do not want people to lose track of the crux of the matter.

>

> Ramakrishna could do miracles because he had no ego and surrendered

fully to

> Her. *She* did everything for him.

>

> As I said earlier, a person with normal ego can do some things; a

person

> with very little personal ego can do tremendous things; and, a

person with

> *no* personal ego can do *any* thing. Our goal should be to

eradicate

> personal ego through constant vigilance and total surrender.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

>

> -

> " utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak

>

> Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:07 PM

> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today

>

>

> Namaste,

>

> one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma

> Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.

>

> Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that

> Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about

> his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that

> he was Thakur Ramkrishna in the previous birth.

>

> Yours,

>

> Utpal

>

> I know

>

>

> , " Shiv " <theblisswithin@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Ashwinji

> > This is a very good and inspiring thread.

> > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting

> insight.

> > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his

> > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and

> Will,

> > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting

> for

> > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru

> > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives

> and

> > gave him the work for this life.

> > He took him back as in a flash to the past. He realised that he

had

> > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru

> of

> > Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.

> >

> > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general site

is

> > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English

> somewhere

> > online. It's in the very first few chapters.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Shiv

> >

> > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devine

experience

> > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience that

I

> > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am writing

> exactly

> > as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of

> 1973/74.

> > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.

> > > Â

> > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near

> Dwarka.

> > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance

> for

> > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post

> > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some

> Telephone

> > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr.

Patel)

> > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri

> > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking

> about

> > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly

> gathering at

> > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created

> by

> > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna

> > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly

> meeting

> > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30

> > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after duty

hours

> > and were talking only about Thakur.

> > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--

> â?oRawalbhai,

> > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My

> son

> > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to go nowâ?

. -

> -

> > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.

> > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane

> crash

> > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about

> him.

> > He could foresee the events. One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,

> he

> > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. Yet

I

> > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was

> punctured

> > on the way. This was surprising.

> > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super

> power

> > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to

> > shri Thakur. One day I thought, I should also be disciple of shri

> > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered

> myself

> > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed

> him

> > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his

> grace.

> > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning

> > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was

> waking

> > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have

> > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and

> she

> > argued with me a lot. â? " â?oWhy should you take such a hasty

> decision?

> > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali at Calcutta. He

> was a

> > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,

> give

> > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma

> Acharya

> > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?--.

> > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not

> know

> > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken

> > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --

> > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur was

telling

> > their disciples to test him before accepting him. I also decided

to

> > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â? " â?oSee, Mr. Patel

> has

> > never come to our home. You have also not seen him. He has never

> asked

> > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house

> within

> > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakur

is

> > perfect?â?--

> > > She laughed at meâ? " â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?

-

> -

> > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my

> > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence

> even

> > today.â?T

> > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the

> > morning with angry mood. What he told?

> > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know what

happened?

> > Yesterday was my night duty and I had just come to my home at

05.30

> > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. Suddenly

Thakur

> > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts

> house. He

> > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his

> houseâ?

> > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way

> to

> > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are

> disturbing

> > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T

> > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that

> > Morning.

> > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.

> There

> > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur but I will

> write

> > it sometime.

> > > Dear Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the

> > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to

> > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.

> > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad

[Guest guest]

One person may be seeing visions of deities, experiencing mystical things and another person may not be experiencing any such "extraordinary" things. Yet, the latter may realize Self first. It IS possible.

 

Is it seriously possible? Or only a theoritical concept?

 

-Regards

Rajarshi

 

 

 

"This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Experiences (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today) Date: Tuesday, 11 November, 2008, 9:56 AM

 

 

Dear Utpal,> what i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of not> experiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still one> is really making good progress?One person may be seeing visions of deities, experiencing mystical things and another person may not be experiencing any such "extraordinary" things. Yet, the latter may realize Self first. It IS possible.Believe me, all it takes for Her is a split second to turn a fool into a self-realized person.You will do yourself a big favor if you take the thoughts of "extraordinary experiences" off your mind. These expectations are a big obstacle.If you normally feel sad or angry or upset when someone criticizes you badly and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress? If you normally feel elated when someone praises you to the sky and you are now

able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress?Instead of focusing your senses outward and looking for some miracle or an "extraordinaty experience", focus your senses inward, watch your thoughts and instincts closely and refine them. Try to reach a state where criticism and praise are the same for you.That will put you in a good stead. THAT is real progress. If you make real progress and do not bother about any "extraordinary experiences" , you may indeed have an extraordinary experience oneday! Not the one that gets you stuck with a sense of possessiveness or entitlement, but the one that frees you.> If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it is> quite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along with> some out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some times> temporarily disappoints me.One can

get stuck in some expectations that are unknowingly formed in the mind based on what one read or heard.One can get stuck in possessiveness or a sense of entitlement over an "extraordinary experience" that actually happened to him.One can get stuck in many ways.If you do not want to get stuck, have no expectations. Have no sense of ownership over anything. Surrender to Her fully, not because it will give X or Y or Z, but because everything is really Hers. Keep looking at yourself and your own actions/thoughts and refine them to make the sense of surrender fuller and fuller. And expect to get nothing from Her in return for that surrender. That is a surefire way to succeed in one's spiritual pursuit.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 10, 2008 11:59 AM Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive todayNamaste Garu,>> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit from>them. Beings>Our goal should be to eradicate>personal ego through constant vigilance and total surrender.I am inspired by many saints and Thakur being the most prominent ofthem. Sri Sri Ravishankar is the one who i know to be a really greatspiritual teacher, however i found my guru in you.I highly appreciate your clarity of thoughts and found manysimmilarity in our attitude and thoughts over years, however i knowfor sure that there is a big gulf between our level of consciousness.through some of

your messages on list as well as personla mails, i amcompletely convinced about one thing which is mentioned below- Barometer of spiritual growth is the reduction of I ness (limitedego) viz-a-viz increase of surrender. the feeling of being aninstrument in the hand of Mother/god/nature increaseswhat i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of notexperiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still oneis really making good progress?If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it isquite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along withsome out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some timestemporarily disappoints me.i feel that i'll never be convinced unless i get the concrete proofof the subtle world.Yours,utpal, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvrwrote:>> Namaste Utpal,>> My best wishes to all on the occasion of Ksheeraabdhi Dwaadashi!>> One of the two saints could be Thakur. It is also possible thatneither is> Thakur.>> Bottomline is that it does not really matter!>> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit fromthem. Beings> like Thakur are born out of free volition and out of compassion forother> beings. They are the playmates of the Mother and are reborn as apart of Her> plan. They are born to show the path to others. However, there aremany> paths. In each life, they may take up a different mission anddemonstrate> different paths to people through their teachings and deeds. If youlike the> teachings of such a being in a specific birth, due to

some rinawith the> path taught in that birth, follow the teachings of that birth. Whoelse the> same being was in other births is not that relevant or useful.>> If you are attracted to the teachings of any saint - RamakrishnaParamahamsa> or Shriram Sharma Acharya or Yogeshwar ji or Ramana Maharshi orAurobindo or> Srila Prabhupada or Akkalkot Maharaj or Sai Baba or Kabir orSamartha> Ramadas or Jnaneshwar Maharaj or Chaitanya Mahaprabhu orRamanujacharya or> Raghavedra Swami or Gautama Buddha or Jesus Christ or whoever,follow the> teachings of that saint and benefit from them. Other speculativethings> about them may be interesting, but can turn out to be a meredistraction.>> Find the teachings and path that attracts you the most. Read theteachings.> More importantly, try to *walk* the path. Imbibe the teachings

inyour> thinking and in your common sense. Your actions and thoughts shouldreflect> the teachings. Focus on the teachings of the saint, digest themfully and> base your thoughts and actions on them.>> * * *>> Regarding Ramakrishna, I want to say one thing. The extent to whichhe> imbibed the upanishadic philosophy in his thoughts and actions, thedepth of> his sense of surrender to the Mother and the absolute lack ofpersonal ego> in him are the real miracles to me. Other miracles are useful toinstill> faith and confidence in some people. But they do not do justice tohis> personality. In fact, Swami Vivekananda was very conscious ofpossibly> limiting Thakur's personality to a bunch of miracles and wasconcerned if> books on him would be able to do justice to his personality.>> If Ramakrishna Paramahamsa

tranformed a bunch of youngsters intospiritual> giants who affected the spirituality of generations and if SrilaPrabhupada> transformed many fallen souls into excellent saints who changed theworld,> it was possible because of their *total* surrender to the Lord andthe> zeroness of their personal ego. *That* is a true miracle.>> I do not want to downplay the discussion of other tangiblemiracles. But I> do not want people to lose track of the crux of the matter.>> Ramakrishna could do miracles because he had no ego and surrenderedfully to> Her. *She* did everything for him.>> As I said earlier, a person with normal ego can do some things; aperson> with very little personal ego can do tremendous things; and, aperson with> *no* personal ego can do *any* thing. Our goal should be toeradicate> personal ego through

constant vigilance and total surrender.>> Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> - > "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ...>> <>> Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:07 PM> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today>>> Namaste,>> one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma> Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.>> Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that> Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about> his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that> he was Thakur Ramkrishna

in the previous birth.>> Yours,>> Utpal>> I know>>> , "Shiv" <theblisswithin@ >> wrote:> >> > Respected Ashwinji> > This is a very good and inspiring thread.> > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting> insight.> > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his> > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and> Will,> > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting> for> > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru> > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives> and> > gave him the work for this life.> > He took him back as

in a flash to the past. He realised that hehad> > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru> of> > Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.> >> > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general siteis> > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English> somewhere> > online. It's in the very first few chapters.> >> > Thanks> > Shiv> >> > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@ >> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devineexperience> > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience thatI> > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am writing> exactly>

> as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of> 1973/74.> > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.> > > Â> > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near> Dwarka.> > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance> for> > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post> > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some> Telephone> > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr.Patel)> > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri> > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking> about> > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly> gathering at> > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created>

by> > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna> > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly> meeting> > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30> > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after dutyhours> > and were talking only about Thakur.> > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--> â?oRawalbhai,> > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My> son> > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to go nowâ?�. -> -> > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.> > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane> crash> > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about> him.> > He could foresee the events.

One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,> he> > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. YetI> > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was> punctured> > on the way. This was surprising.> > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super> power> > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to> > shri Thakur. One day I thought, I should also be disciple of shri> > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered> myself> > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed> him> > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his> grace.> > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning> > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was>

waking> > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have> > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and> she> > argued with me a lot. â?"â?oWhy should you take such a hasty> decision?> > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali at Calcutta. He> was a> > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,> give> > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma> Acharya> > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?�--.> > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not> know> > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken> > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --> > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur wastelling> > their disciples to test

him before accepting him. I also decidedto> > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â?"â?oSee, Mr. Patel> has> > never come to our home. You have also not seen him. He has never> asked> > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house> within> > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakuris> > perfect?â?�--> > > She laughed at meâ?"â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?�-> -> > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my> > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence> even> > today.â?T> > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the> > morning with angry mood. What he told?> > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know

whathappened?> > Yesterday was my night duty and I had just come to my home at05.30> > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. SuddenlyThakur> > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts> house. He> > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his> houseâ?�> > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way> to> > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are> disturbing> > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T> > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that> > Morning.> > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.> There> > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur but I will> write> > it sometime.> > > Dear

Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the> > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to> > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.> > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad

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Namaste,

 

> Is it seriously possible? Or only a theoritical concept?

 

Absolutely.

 

Once Ramakrishna Paramahamsa wanted to give some siddhis (mystical abilities) to Vivekananda. Vivekananda asked "will they help me realize Self". Ramakrishna said "no". Vivekananda said "then I do not want them. Let me first realize Self. Then we will see."

 

Things obtained before one is ready are detrimental to progress. Things like mystical experiences, mystical abilities etc are actually like a detour on the path of self-realization. When they happen to one still with an ego, they may fan the flame of ego rather than extinguish it. When a realized soul gets them, they do no harm. But when an unprepared person gets them, they can spoil one.

 

Accepting what nature gives us without our asking for is fine, but craving for things is not good, mystical experiences included.

 

Self-realization comes when ego is completely effaced. Mystical experiences are neither necessary nor sufficient for that. As I said before:

 

"If you normally feel sad or angry or upset when someone criticizes you badly and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress? If you normally feel elated when someone praises you to the sky and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress? Instead of focusing your senses outward and looking for some miracle or an "extraordinaty experience", focus your senses inward, watch your thoughts and instincts closely and refine them. Try to reach a state where criticism and praise are the same for you."

 

Control over the mind and senses and control over the six internal enemies (lust, anger, greed, delusion, wantonness and jealosy) are a far more accurate metric to judge the spiritual progress. If one watches one's own thoughts and instincts honestly, one should be able to know what is happening inside the mind.

 

I know someone who did not even have an awakened Kundalini and had no mystical experiences of any kind but had Kundalini reach sahasrara directly oneday, went into nirvikalpa samadhi, stayed in it for 7 days and returned after 7 days as a brahma jnaani to lead a different life. Of course, it was possible due to the purity generated for several years before that.

 

Instead of focusing on the *symptoms* and recreating the symptoms observed by some people when they made spiritual progress, it will be productive if one focuses on the root. Mind and its ego are the root of all bondage we experience. Reduction of the ego is the solution that frees one. Other things like mystical experiences, mystical abilities, visions, Kundalini rise etc are symptoms and not the root. If one is successful in recreating the symptoms without making much progress on the root, it is futile really.

 

Whatever path one follows, one will do well to cut down on all cravings - including those for mystical experiences - and be vigiliant in observing one's thoughts and instincts. There is no substitute to cutting the ego, if one is genuinely interested in self-realization.

 

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

-

rajarshi nandy

Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:27 AM

Re: Experiences (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today)

 

 

 

 

 

One person may be seeing visions of deities, experiencing mystical things and another person may not be experiencing any such "extraordinary" things. Yet, the latter may realize Self first. It IS possible.

 

Is it seriously possible? Or only a theoritical concept?

 

-Regards

Rajarshi

 

 

 

"This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Experiences (Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today) Date: Tuesday, 11 November, 2008, 9:56 AM

 

 

Dear Utpal,> what i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of not> experiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still one> is really making good progress?One person may be seeing visions of deities, experiencing mystical things and another person may not be experiencing any such "extraordinary" things. Yet, the latter may realize Self first. It IS possible.Believe me, all it takes for Her is a split second to turn a fool into a self-realized person.You will do yourself a big favor if you take the thoughts of "extraordinary experiences" off your mind. These expectations are a big obstacle.If you normally feel sad or angry or upset when someone criticizes you badly and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress? If you normally feel elated when someone praises you to the sky and you are now able to feel normal in that situation, isn't that a "tangible" sign of progress?Instead of focusing your senses outward and looking for some miracle or an "extraordinaty experience", focus your senses inward, watch your thoughts and instincts closely and refine them. Try to reach a state where criticism and praise are the same for you.That will put you in a good stead. THAT is real progress. If you make real progress and do not bother about any "extraordinary experiences" , you may indeed have an extraordinary experience oneday! Not the one that gets you stuck with a sense of possessiveness or entitlement, but the one that frees you.> If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it is> quite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along with> some out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some times> temporarily disappoints me.One can get stuck in some expectations that are unknowingly formed in the mind based on what one read or heard.One can get stuck in possessiveness or a sense of entitlement over an "extraordinary experience" that actually happened to him.One can get stuck in many ways.If you do not want to get stuck, have no expectations. Have no sense of ownership over anything. Surrender to Her fully, not because it will give X or Y or Z, but because everything is really Hers. Keep looking at yourself and your own actions/thoughts and refine them to make the sense of surrender fuller and fuller. And expect to get nothing from Her in return for that surrender. That is a surefire way to succeed in one's spiritual pursuit.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 10, 2008 11:59 AM Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive todayNamaste Garu,>> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit from>them. Beings>Our goal should be to eradicate>personal ego through constant vigilance and total surrender.I am inspired by many saints and Thakur being the most prominent ofthem. Sri Sri Ravishankar is the one who i know to be a really greatspiritual teacher, however i found my guru in you.I highly appreciate your clarity of thoughts and found manysimmilarity in our attitude and thoughts over years, however i knowfor sure that there is a big gulf between our level of consciousness.through some of your messages on list as well as personla mails, i amcompletely convinced about one thing which is mentioned below- Barometer of spiritual growth is the reduction of I ness (limitedego) viz-a-viz increase of surrender. the feeling of being aninstrument in the hand of Mother/god/nature increaseswhat i am still not convinced about is that the possibility of notexperiencing any *tangiable* extraordinary expereinces but still oneis really making good progress?If i think rationally and take the experiences of others than it isquite clear that the spiritual growth invariably comes along withsome out of the world and tangiable experiences. this some timestemporarily disappoints me.i feel that i'll never be convinced unless i get the concrete proofof the subtle world.Yours,utpal, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvrwrote:>> Namaste Utpal,>> My best wishes to all on the occasion of Ksheeraabdhi Dwaadashi!>> One of the two saints could be Thakur. It is also possible thatneither is> Thakur.>> Bottomline is that it does not really matter!>> If you are attracted to Thakur and his teachings, benefit fromthem. Beings> like Thakur are born out of free volition and out of compassion forother> beings. They are the playmates of the Mother and are reborn as apart of Her> plan. They are born to show the path to others. However, there aremany> paths. In each life, they may take up a different mission anddemonstrate> different paths to people through their teachings and deeds. If youlike the> teachings of such a being in a specific birth, due to some rinawith the> path taught in that birth, follow the teachings of that birth. Whoelse the> same being was in other births is not that relevant or useful.>> If you are attracted to the teachings of any saint - RamakrishnaParamahamsa> or Shriram Sharma Acharya or Yogeshwar ji or Ramana Maharshi orAurobindo or> Srila Prabhupada or Akkalkot Maharaj or Sai Baba or Kabir orSamartha> Ramadas or Jnaneshwar Maharaj or Chaitanya Mahaprabhu orRamanujacharya or> Raghavedra Swami or Gautama Buddha or Jesus Christ or whoever,follow the> teachings of that saint and benefit from them. Other speculativethings> about them may be interesting, but can turn out to be a meredistraction.>> Find the teachings and path that attracts you the most. Read theteachings.> More importantly, try to *walk* the path. Imbibe the teachings inyour> thinking and in your common sense. Your actions and thoughts shouldreflect> the teachings. Focus on the teachings of the saint, digest themfully and> base your thoughts and actions on them.>> * * *>> Regarding Ramakrishna, I want to say one thing. The extent to whichhe> imbibed the upanishadic philosophy in his thoughts and actions, thedepth of> his sense of surrender to the Mother and the absolute lack ofpersonal ego> in him are the real miracles to me. Other miracles are useful toinstill> faith and confidence in some people. But they do not do justice tohis> personality. In fact, Swami Vivekananda was very conscious ofpossibly> limiting Thakur's personality to a bunch of miracles and wasconcerned if> books on him would be able to do justice to his personality.>> If Ramakrishna Paramahamsa tranformed a bunch of youngsters intospiritual> giants who affected the spirituality of generations and if SrilaPrabhupada> transformed many fallen souls into excellent saints who changed theworld,> it was possible because of their *total* surrender to the Lord andthe> zeroness of their personal ego. *That* is a true miracle.>> I do not want to downplay the discussion of other tangiblemiracles. But I> do not want people to lose track of the crux of the matter.>> Ramakrishna could do miracles because he had no ego and surrenderedfully to> Her. *She* did everything for him.>> As I said earlier, a person with normal ego can do some things; aperson> with very little personal ego can do tremendous things; and, aperson with> *no* personal ego can do *any* thing. Our goal should be toeradicate> personal ego through constant vigilance and total surrender.>> Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> - > "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ...>> <>> Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:07 PM> Re: Shri Shri THAKUR is still alive today>>> Namaste,>> one Gayatri Upaasaka told me many years back that Shri Ram Sharma> Acharya was born as Thakur Ramkrishna in previous life.>> Another as intresting as well as equally confusing thing is that> Late Shri Yogeshwarji (A Gujarati yogi) had also revealtion about> his past life and he also indirectly indicated in his biography that> he was Thakur Ramkrishna in the previous birth.>> Yours,>> Utpal>> I know>>> , "Shiv" <theblisswithin@ >> wrote:> >> > Respected Ashwinji> > This is a very good and inspiring thread.> > I would like to mention something that may be an interesting> insight.> > You mentioned Pt Shriram Sharma Acharya. He actually said in his> > autobiography ( Hamari Virasat aur Vasiyat, My Inheritances and> Will,> > loosely translated) that once when he was 14 years old and sitting> for> > his Morning Sandhya, a divine figure appeared, guru> > Sarweshwaranandji. His Guru then made him realise his past lives> and> > gave him the work for this life.> > He took him back as in a flash to the past. He realised that hehad> > been born as Thakur, before that Saint Kabir and before that Guru> of> > Chatrapati Shivaji, Guru Ramdass.> >> > I will try to locate the exact link and send it.The general siteis> > www.awgp.org I remember the book is there on pdf in English> somewhere> > online. It's in the very first few chapters.> >> > Thanks> > Shiv> >> > , Ashwin Rawal <ashwinrawal@ >> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sir, I would like to share one of my great Devineexperience> > about shri Ramkrishnadev. This is an unbelievable experience thatI> > have had. I have not added anything from my own. I am writing> exactly> > as was happened in my life. I am going back to the period of> 1973/74.> > Kindly read this only when you are in religious mood.> > > Â> > > I was working as telegraphist at Okha Port Post office near> Dwarka.> > My duty was from 7 am to 7 pm and I was getting late fee allowance> for> > extra duty. There was a Telephone exchange just opposite to Post> > office and due to same Depâ?Tt; I had friendship with some> Telephone> > operators. One Mr. Ramanbhai Patel, (we will call him as Mr.Patel)> > was working as Operator. He was a staunch devotee of   shri> > Ramkrishnadev. Whenever I was meeting him he was always talking> about> > shri Thakur. We came close day by day. There was a weekly> gathering at> > his home called SATSANGA. He was singing devotional songs created> by> > him and was weeping while singing. He was reading Ramkrishna> > Kathamrita. We 10 to 12 youngsters were attending this weekly> meeting> > on Saturday evening. I was then 24 years old. Mr. Patel was of 30> > then. We were used to go to seashore daily at 7 pm after dutyhours> > and were talking only about Thakur.> > > One day when we were at sea shore he suddenly told me--> â?oRawalbhai,> > some guest have come to my home and my wife is remembering me. My> son> > will come in a few minutes to call me. I shall have to go nowâ?�. -> -> > And with my surprise his 8 years old son came to call him.> > > At one another incident he told me that there will be a plane> crash> > tomorrow and that also happened. I was very much impressed about> him.> > He could foresee the events. One day I had to go to Dwarka by Bus,> he> > told me not to go through bus, as bus tire will be punctured. YetI> > went to Bus station but bus did not come from Dwarka as was> punctured> > on the way. This was surprising.> > > This all incidents made me to believe that he had some super> power> > and this was due to Ramkrishandev worship only. I was attracted to> > shri Thakur. One day I thought, I should also be disciple of shri> > Thakur and the day came. It was 4/4/1974. At 7 pm I surrendered> myself> > to Thakur at Mr. Patelâ?Ts house before Thakur picture. I prayed> him> > deeply from my heart to accept me as his follower and bestow his> grace.> > > Next day morning I had a discussion with my wife at 6.10 morning> > while taking the tea. As my duty was to start from 7 am I was> waking> > up at 5.45 morning. I told to my wife in the morning that I have> > accepted Shri Ramkrishnadev as my Gurudev. My wife was annoyed and> she> > argued with me a lot. â?"â?oWhy should you take such a hasty> decision?> > Ramkrishna Paramhamsa was a devotee of Maa Kali at Calcutta. He> was a> > great Saint but our Guru should be living one, who can guide us,> give> > us Mantra etc. etc. Better you take Dixa from Shri Ram Sharma> Acharya> > since you are doing Gayatri Mantraâ?�--.> > > Her arguments were right at her place as people in general not> know> > much about Thakur and I was confused. I thought-- yes I have taken> > hasty decision. I was in the influence of Mr. Patel. --> > > But I remember that Mr. Patel had told me that Thakur wastelling> > their disciples to test him before accepting him. I also decidedto> > test Thakur. I immediately told my wife that â?"â?oSee, Mr. Patel> has> > never come to our home. You have also not seen him. He has never> asked> > me where I am living. Suppose Mr. Patel is coming to our house> within> > 10 to 15 minutes, would you believe that my selection for Thakuris> > perfect?â?�--> > > She laughed at meâ?"â?oHow it is possible? I donâ?Tt believe.â?�-> -> > > I prayed Shri Thakur to send Mr. Patel immediately to justify my> > decision and convince my wife. â?~I want to test your existence> even> > today.â?T> > > To our great surprise, Mr. Patel was at my home at 06.30 in the> > morning with angry mood. What he told?> > > â?~ How dare you test Thakur this way? Do you know whathappened?> > Yesterday was my night duty and I had just come to my home at05.30> > mornings today and tried to sleep for 1 or 2 hours. SuddenlyThakur> > pulled my blanket and told me that-â?o Go to your friendâ?Ts> house. He> > is waiting for you. He wants to test me. I will show you his> houseâ?�> > > I immediately rushed to your home. Thakur was guiding me the way> to> > your house and pushing me too. What you want? Why you are> disturbing> > him in such an early morning for such a silly things?â?T> > > We both were so excited and surprised that we had no words that> > Morning.> > > I will never forget that 5th April, a miracle day in my life.> There> > were some more Devine experiences about Shri Thakur but I will> write> > it sometime.> > > Dear Sir, and forum members, Ramkrishandev is still alive on the> > earth. This is a fact I have written and no word is added to> > exaggerate. May Shri Thakur bless all of us.> > > Dr. Ashwin Rawal Ahmedabad