Guest guest Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Namaste, > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable Ok.. Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with him. Someone else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of the deity. What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is good to try to overcome lust if it is possible. Several " normal college going people " were taken under his wings by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. Swami Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college students when they met Ramakrishna. But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of Ramakrishna's disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with his blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy to kill completely. In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the mind. Set a rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that and maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming the basic problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > suppress desires but remove them from the root True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. But, if one keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of desire. Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than Self) or physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much one gets. Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the desire temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is that just suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing desires, but do remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep working on it. > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years That is the right spirit! Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is one thing. The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become attached to things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come together! One person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and brahmacharya may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya first and detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various signs of spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can change from person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability to get something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle! Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - Namaste sir i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a public forum as it may probably offend others. If you have time ,if you could please reply. I was thinking this for many days that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though he had his deity with him from the very early in life. how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a deity obtain this goal. Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but after that i am not able to hold it , and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out of mind Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not suppress desires but remove them from the root So, how can i finish it completely from my mind Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of Brahamcharya but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing Brahamcharya and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable if what i worte offended you please delete this mail regards <deleted> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 namaste, I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the blind leading the blind.> Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming the basic ...> True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. But, if one > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of desire. One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a purana about Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8 demons: envy, lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, " my-ness " and pride. In the chapter where Ganesha destroys the " desire demon " , the demon is described as having two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries things up / destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied. Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire. And in the process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually, one feel's guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it is drying up. Ganesha comes to uproot the " desire demon " as the avatAra " vikaTa " , which means " one who is horrible / monstrous " . The purana explains that we have to see things " as they are " . To do this, we should think of desired objects, as something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able to see Ganesha in his vikaTa form. This technique is described in Shankaracharya's famous stotra " moha mudgara " , i.e. taking a hammer to " delusion " . This is also known as " bhaja govindam " . Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember that the female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible contortion) of flesh and fat. Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows it as it is, contorted and un-deserving of desire. bhavadIyaH, ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Namaste, may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for *Sambhog* what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact everybody in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is like tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the Saints if they are not vigilant. Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires to attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy. If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips are- - Cold water Bath - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot food. - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full) - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the key. without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire completely. efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and prayers...cry and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies. Vivekananda said " The Character is establised through thousand stumbles " - no need to lose heart. warm regards, utpal , " Ajit Krishnan " <ajit.krishnan wrote: > > namaste, > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the blind leading > the blind. > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming the basic > ... > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of desire. > > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a purana about > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8 demons: envy, > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, " my-ness " and pride. In the chapter > where Ganesha destroys the " desire demon " , the demon is described as having > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries things up / > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied. > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire. And in the > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually, one feel's > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it is drying up. > > Ganesha comes to uproot the " desire demon " as the avatAra " vikaTa " , which > means " one who is horrible / monstrous " . The purana explains that we have to > see things " as they are " . To do this, we should think of desired objects, as > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able to see > Ganesha in his vikaTa form. > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya's famous stotra " moha > mudgara " , i.e. taking a hammer to " delusion " . This is also known as " bhaja > govindam " . Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember that the > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible contortion) of flesh > and fat. > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows it as it is, > contorted and un-deserving of desire. > > bhavadIyaH, > > ajit > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 namaste, > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is justified. I meant that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind, since I am not qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion. bhavadIyaH, ajit On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: Namaste,may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for *Sambhog* what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact everybodyin their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is liketsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even theSaints if they are not vigilant. Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires toattack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy.If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips are-- Cold water Bath - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot food.- avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full)- Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas- Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies- Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/MothersAbove all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the key.without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire completely.efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and prayers...cryand then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies.Vivekananda said " The Character is establised through thousand stumbles " - no need to lose heart.warm regards,utpal , " Ajit Krishnan " <ajit.krishnan wrote:>> namaste,>> I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of theblind leading> the blind.>> > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming the basic> ...> > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later.But, if one> > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the natureof desire.>> > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a puranaabout> Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8demons: envy,> lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, " my-ness " and pride. In the chapter> where Ganesha destroys the " desire demon " , the demon is describedas having> two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who driesthings up /> destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied. >> Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire.And in the> process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually, onefeel's> guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it is drying up.>> Ganesha comes to uproot the " desire demon " as theavatAra " vikaTa " , which> means " one who is horrible / monstrous " . The purana explains thatwe have to > see things " as they are " . To do this, we should think of desiredobjects, as> something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able tosee> Ganesha in his vikaTa form.> > This technique is described in Shankaracharya's famous stotra " moha> mudgara " , i.e. taking a hammer to " delusion " . This is also knownas " bhaja> govindam " . Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember that the> female form is merely a modification (rather a horriblecontortion) of flesh> and fat.>> Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows itas it is,> contorted and un-deserving of desire. >> bhavadIyaH,>> ajit> ---|| Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Namaste, Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely. Best Regrads, utpal , " Ajit Krishnan " <ajit.krishnan wrote: > > namaste, > > > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? > Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is justified. I meant > that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind, since I am not > qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question > Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion. > > bhavadIyaH, > > ajit > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak <vedic_pathakwrote: > > > Namaste, > > > > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? > > > > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for *Sambhog* > > > > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact everybody > > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is like > > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the > > Saints if they are not vigilant. > > > > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires to > > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy. > > > > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips are- > > > > - Cold water Bath > > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot food. > > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full) > > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas > > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan > > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies > > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers > > > > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the key. > > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire > > completely. > > > > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and prayers...cry > > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies. > > > > Vivekananda said " The Character is establised through thousand > > stumbles " - no need to lose heart. > > > > warm regards, > > > > utpal > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Ajit Krishnan " > > <ajit.krishnan@> wrote: > > > > > > namaste, > > > > > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the > > blind leading > > > the blind. > > > > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > > the basic > > > ... > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > > But, if one > > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature > > of desire. > > > > > > > > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a purana > > about > > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8 > > demons: envy, > > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, " my-ness " and pride. In the > > chapter > > > where Ganesha destroys the " desire demon " , the demon is described > > as having > > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries > > things up / > > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied. > > > > > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire. > > And in the > > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually, one > > feel's > > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it is > > drying up. > > > > > > Ganesha comes to uproot the " desire demon " as the > > avatAra " vikaTa " , which > > > means " one who is horrible / monstrous " . The purana explains that > > we have to > > > see things " as they are " . To do this, we should think of desired > > objects, as > > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able to > > see > > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form. > > > > > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya's famous stotra " moha > > > mudgara " , i.e. taking a hammer to " delusion " . This is also known > > as " bhaja > > > govindam " . Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember > > that the > > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible > > contortion) of flesh > > > and fat. > > > > > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows it > > as it is, > > > contorted and un-deserving of desire. > > > > > > bhavadIyaH, > > > > > > ajit > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > || Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih || > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Guys, I am glad everything is sorted out. But, in general, let us be less defensive and instead focus on subject. Knowing Ajit's nature, I knew exactly what he meant. However, even if Ajit or someone actually said something negative about me, it is not a big deal. One is who one is and words, good or bad, do not change that, for better or worse. Why be sensitive to words then? Ajit, you are certainly qualified in commenting. I always knew that you have tremendous scholarship, great humility and sincerity. People far less qualified than you talk/write so much in today's world. Please do write more. The imagery thrown up by the Puranic story mentioned by you is really nice! Friends, Lord Hanuman is one who fully overcame lust. He can be worshipped for giving self-control. Lord Hrishikesha gives purity and control over senses (hrishika + isha = lord of senses). He can be worshipped for control over senses. Mother Kaali gives dispassion and kills the root of desires. She can be worshipped for getting rid of desires. Several things are possible. But, for most people in today's times, it is not going to be one magic bullet that does it, but a combination of various practices. Patience is needed. Try to increase the understanding of what is permanent and what is transient. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - " utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak Monday, November 03, 2008 9:39 PM Re: Regarding Brahamcharya > Namaste, > > Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely. > > Best Regrads, > > utpal > > , " Ajit Krishnan " > <ajit.krishnan wrote: >> >> namaste, >> >> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? >> Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is > justified. I meant >> that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind, > since I am not >> qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question >> Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion. >> >> bhavadIyaH, >> >> ajit >> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak > <vedic_pathakwrote: >> >> > Namaste, >> > >> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind? >> > >> > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for > *Sambhog* >> > >> > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact > everybody >> > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is > like >> > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the >> > Saints if they are not vigilant. >> > >> > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires > to >> > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy. >> > >> > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips > are- >> > >> > - Cold water Bath >> > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot > food. >> > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full) >> > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas >> > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan >> > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies >> > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers >> > >> > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the > key. >> > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire >> > completely. >> > >> > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and > prayers...cry >> > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies. >> > >> > Vivekananda said " The Character is establised through thousand >> > stumbles " - no need to lose heart. >> > >> > warm regards, >> > >> > utpal >> > >> > , " Ajit Krishnan " >> > <ajit.krishnan@> wrote: >> > > >> > > namaste, >> > > >> > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the >> > blind leading >> > > the blind. >> > > >> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in > overcoming >> > the basic >> > > ... >> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back > later. >> > But, if one >> > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the > nature >> > of desire. >> > > >> > > >> > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a > purana >> > about >> > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8 >> > demons: envy, >> > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, " my-ness " and pride. In > the >> > chapter >> > > where Ganesha destroys the " desire demon " , the demon is > described >> > as having >> > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries >> > things up / >> > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied. >> > > >> > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire. >> > And in the >> > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually, > one >> > feel's >> > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it > is >> > drying up. >> > > >> > > Ganesha comes to uproot the " desire demon " as the >> > avatAra " vikaTa " , which >> > > means " one who is horrible / monstrous " . The purana explains > that >> > we have to >> > > see things " as they are " . To do this, we should think of > desired >> > objects, as >> > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able > to >> > see >> > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form. >> > > >> > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya's famous > stotra " moha >> > > mudgara " , i.e. taking a hammer to " delusion " . This is also > known >> > as " bhaja >> > > govindam " . Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember >> > that the >> > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible >> > contortion) of flesh >> > > and fat. >> > > >> > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows > it >> > as it is, >> > > contorted and un-deserving of desire. >> > > >> > > bhavadIyaH, >> > > >> > > ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Dear All, Excellent chain of mails indeed, including the metion and significance of teh Vikata Rupa of Ganapati to overcome lust. This is indeed one of the finest internet forums. May Narasimhaji and the other learned members keep up the good work, there is so much that ordinary people like me get to learn just by reading these mails!. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 9:49 AM Guys,I am glad everything is sorted out. But, in general, let us be less defensive and instead focus on subject. Knowing Ajit's nature, I knew exactly what he meant. However, even if Ajit or someone actually said something negative about me, it is not a big deal. One is who one is and words, good or bad, do not change that, for better or worse. Why be sensitive to words then?Ajit, you are certainly qualified in commenting. I always knew that you have tremendous scholarship, great humility and sincerity. People far less qualified than you talk/write so much in today's world. Please do write more.The imagery thrown up by the Puranic story mentioned by you is really nice!Friends,Lord Hanuman is one who fully overcame lust. He can be worshipped for giving self-control.Lord Hrishikesha gives purity and control over senses (hrishika + isha = lord of senses). He can be worshipped for control over senses.Mother Kaali gives dispassion and kills the root of desires. She can be worshipped for getting rid of desires.Several things are possible. But, for most people in today's times, it is not going to be one magic bullet that does it, but a combination of various practices. Patience is needed.Try to increase the understanding of what is permanent and what is transient.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 03, 2008 9:39 PM Re: Regarding Brahamcharya> Namaste,>> Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely.>> Best Regrads,>> utpal>> , "Ajit Krishnan"> <ajit.krishnan@ ...> wrote:>>>> namaste,>>>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is> justified. I meant>> that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind,> since I am not>> qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question>> Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion.>>>> bhavadIyaH,>>>> ajit>>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak> <vedic_pathak@ ...>wrote:>>>> > Namaste,>> >>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> >>> > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for> *Sambhog*>> >>> > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact> everybody>> > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is> like>> > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the>> > Saints if they are not vigilant.>> >>> > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires> to>> > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy.>> >>> > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips> are->> >>> > - Cold water Bath>> > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot> food.>> > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full)>> > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas>> > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan>> > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies>> > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers>> >>> > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the> key.>> > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire>> > completely.>> >>> > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and> prayers...cry>> > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies.>> >>> > Vivekananda said "The Character is establised through thousand>> > stumbles" - no need to lose heart.>> >>> > warm regards,>> >>> > utpal>> >>> > , "Ajit Krishnan">> > <ajit.krishnan@ > wrote:>> > >>> > > namaste,>> > >>> > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the>> > blind leading>> > > the blind.>> > >>> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in> overcoming>> > the basic>> > > ...>> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back> later.>> > But, if one>> > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the> nature>> > of desire.>> > >>> > >>> > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a> purana>> > about>> > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8>> > demons: envy,>> > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, "my-ness" and pride. In> the>> > chapter>> > > where Ganesha destroys the "desire demon", the demon is> described>> > as having>> > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries>> > things up />> > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied.>> > >>> > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire.>> > And in the>> > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually,> one>> > feel's>> > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it> is>> > drying up.>> > >>> > > Ganesha comes to uproot the "desire demon" as the>> > avatAra "vikaTa", which>> > > means "one who is horrible / monstrous". The purana explains> that>> > we have to>> > > see things "as they are". To do this, we should think of> desired>> > objects, as>> > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able> to>> > see>> > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form.>> > >>> > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya' s famous> stotra "moha>> > > mudgara", i.e. taking a hammer to "delusion". This is also> known>> > as "bhaja>> > > govindam". Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember>> > that the>> > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible>> > contortion) of flesh>> > > and fat.>> > >>> > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows> it>> > as it is,>> > > contorted and un-deserving of desire.>> > >>> > > bhavadIyaH,>> > >>> > > ajit Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Dear All, Namaskar. Yes, indeed. I had a doubt that I wanted to ask Narasimha garu. I recited Sree Hanumathbadabanala stotram some time back. I had an unusual experience of 'being on fire', during the initial stages. It was as if I was engulfed in a ball of fire, which slowly receded over time. I had a similar experience during the Navaratri puja when reciting Devi kavacham. I still have that feeling of an aura of fire around me and feel extremely hot and sweat even in the cold weather. This stays on for a time. I also had to face extreme circumstances in 'relationships' that matter to me and there is a steady deterioration, almost as if a heavy veil has been torn asunder. I vaguely remember Narasimha ji telling us in some forum that there might be some ramifications relating to karma that could manifest when/ after sadhana/worship. Could you please clarify, Narasimha garu? Regards Nalini rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 Sent: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 5:36:52 PMRe: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Dear All, Excellent chain of mails indeed, including the metion and significance of teh Vikata Rupa of Ganapati to overcome lust. This is indeed one of the finest internet forums. May Narasimhaji and the other learned members keep up the good work, there is so much that ordinary people like me get to learn just by reading these mails!. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Regarding BrahamcharyaTuesday, 4 November, 2008, 9:49 AM Guys,I am glad everything is sorted out. But, in general, let us be less defensive and instead focus on subject. Knowing Ajit's nature, I knew exactly what he meant. However, even if Ajit or someone actually said something negative about me, it is not a big deal. One is who one is and words, good or bad, do not change that, for better or worse. Why be sensitive to words then?Ajit, you are certainly qualified in commenting. I always knew that you have tremendous scholarship, great humility and sincerity. People far less qualified than you talk/write so much in today's world. Please do write more.The imagery thrown up by the Puranic story mentioned by you is really nice!Friends,Lord Hanuman is one who fully overcame lust. He can be worshipped for giving self-control.Lord Hrishikesha gives purity and control over senses (hrishika + isha = lord of senses). He can be worshipped for control over senses.Mother Kaali gives dispassion and kills the root of desires. She can be worshipped for getting rid of desires.Several things are possible. But, for most people in today's times, it is not going to be one magic bullet that does it, but a combination of various practices. Patience is needed.Try to increase the understanding of what is permanent and what is transient.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 03, 2008 9:39 PM Re: Regarding Brahamcharya> Namaste,>> Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely.>> Best Regrads,>> utpal>> , "Ajit Krishnan"> <ajit.krishnan@ ...> wrote:>>>> namaste,>>>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is> justified. I meant>> that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind,> since I am not>> qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question>> Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion.>>>> bhavadIyaH,>>>> ajit>>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak> <vedic_pathak@ ...>wrote:>>>> > Namaste,>> >>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> >>> > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for> *Sambhog*>> >>> > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact> everybody>> > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is> like>> > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the>> > Saints if they are not vigilant.>> >>> > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires> to>> > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy.>> >>> > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips> are->> >>> > - Cold water Bath>> > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot> food.>> > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full)>> > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas>> > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan>> > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies>> > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers>> >>> > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the> key.>> > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire>> > completely.>> >>> > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and> prayers...cry>> > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies.>> >>> > Vivekananda said "The Character is establised through thousand>> > stumbles" - no need to lose heart.>> >>> > warm regards,>> >>> > utpal>> >>> > , "Ajit Krishnan">> > <ajit.krishnan@ > wrote:>> > >>> > > namaste,>> > >>> > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the>> > blind leading>> > > the blind.>> > >>> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in> overcoming>> > the basic>> > > ...>> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back> later.>> > But, if one>> > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the> nature>> > of desire.>> > >>> > >>> > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a> purana>> > about>> > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8>> > demons: envy,>> > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, "my-ness" and pride. In> the>> > chapter>> > > where Ganesha destroys the "desire demon", the demon is> described>> > as having>> > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries>> > things up />> > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied.>> > >>> > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire.>> > And in the>> > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually,> one>> > feel's>> > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it> is>> > drying up.>> > >>> > > Ganesha comes to uproot the "desire demon" as the>> > avatAra "vikaTa", which>> > > means "one who is horrible / monstrous". The purana explains> that>> > we have to>> > > see things "as they are". To do this, we should think of> desired>> > objects, as>> > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able> to>> > see>> > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form.>> > >>> > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya' s famous> stotra "moha>> > > mudgara", i.e. taking a hammer to "delusion". This is also> known>> > as "bhaja>> > > govindam". Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember>> > that the>> > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible>> > contortion) of flesh>> > > and fat.>> > >>> > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows> it>> > as it is,>> > > contorted and un-deserving of desire.>> > >>> > > bhavadIyaH,>> > >>> > > ajit Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Stay informed with Xtra News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Dear Nalini Sorry for interrupting in your question to Narasimha.Your mail reminded me of a similar incident. I have a friend who does very severe japa of a mantra she had recieved in a dream. It was a strange dream where she saw a little girl, naked, come and sit on her lap and when she asked teh girl who she (the girl) was, the reply came in sanskrit. Now my friend does not know or even understand Sanskrit, so she could not understand what the girl was saying. Then after some time the girl in the dream kept repeating what sounded like a mantra in her ears. From next day morning my friend started chanting that mantra, after about one and half years of chanting recently she did a sankalpa for chanting and had experinces similar to the kind u described. She felt her whole body was internally burning, though there was no fever. Her relation with her mom started getting bitter with constant fights etc.. Later after some days it reduced again. I think this maybe a way the karmas are cut off from you. I am not sure of course, Narasimha can tell you better. He much more knowledgeable in these things. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, nalini swamy <nalini2818 wrote: nalini swamy <nalini2818Re: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 3:58 PM Dear All, Namaskar. Yes, indeed. I had a doubt that I wanted to ask Narasimha garu. I recited Sree Hanumathbadabanala stotram some time back. I had an unusual experience of 'being on fire', during the initial stages. It was as if I was engulfed in a ball of fire, which slowly receded over time. I had a similar experience during the Navaratri puja when reciting Devi kavacham. I still have that feeling of an aura of fire around me and feel extremely hot and sweat even in the cold weather. This stays on for a time. I also had to face extreme circumstances in 'relationships' that matter to me and there is a steady deterioration, almost as if a heavy veil has been torn asunder. I vaguely remember Narasimha ji telling us in some forum that there might be some ramifications relating to karma that could manifest when/ after sadhana/worship. Could you please clarify, Narasimha garu? Regards Nalini rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 5:36:52 PMRe: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Dear All, Excellent chain of mails indeed, including the metion and significance of teh Vikata Rupa of Ganapati to overcome lust. This is indeed one of the finest internet forums. May Narasimhaji and the other learned members keep up the good work, there is so much that ordinary people like me get to learn just by reading these mails!. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Regarding BrahamcharyaTuesday, 4 November, 2008, 9:49 AM Guys,I am glad everything is sorted out. But, in general, let us be less defensive and instead focus on subject. Knowing Ajit's nature, I knew exactly what he meant. However, even if Ajit or someone actually said something negative about me, it is not a big deal. One is who one is and words, good or bad, do not change that, for better or worse. Why be sensitive to words then?Ajit, you are certainly qualified in commenting. I always knew that you have tremendous scholarship, great humility and sincerity. People far less qualified than you talk/write so much in today's world. Please do write more.The imagery thrown up by the Puranic story mentioned by you is really nice!Friends,Lord Hanuman is one who fully overcame lust. He can be worshipped for giving self-control.Lord Hrishikesha gives purity and control over senses (hrishika + isha = lord of senses). He can be worshipped for control over senses.Mother Kaali gives dispassion and kills the root of desires. She can be worshipped for getting rid of desires.Several things are possible. But, for most people in today's times, it is not going to be one magic bullet that does it, but a combination of various practices. Patience is needed.Try to increase the understanding of what is permanent and what is transient.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 03, 2008 9:39 PM Re: Regarding Brahamcharya> Namaste,>> Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely.>> Best Regrads,>> utpal>> , "Ajit Krishnan"> <ajit.krishnan@ ...> wrote:>>>> namaste,>>>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is> justified. I meant>> that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind,> since I am not>> qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question>> Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion.>>>> bhavadIyaH,>>>> ajit>>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak> <vedic_pathak@ ...>wrote:>>>> > Namaste,>> >>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> >>> > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for> *Sambhog*>> >>> > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact> everybody>> > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is> like>> > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the>> > Saints if they are not vigilant.>> >>> > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires> to>> > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy.>> >>> > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips> are->> >>> > - Cold water Bath>> > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot> food.>> > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full)>> > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas>> > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan>> > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies>> > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers>> >>> > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the> key.>> > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire>> > completely.>> >>> > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and> prayers...cry>> > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies.>> >>> > Vivekananda said "The Character is establised through thousand>> > stumbles" - no need to lose heart.>> >>> > warm regards,>> >>> > utpal>> >>> > , "Ajit Krishnan">> > <ajit.krishnan@ > wrote:>> > >>> > > namaste,>> > >>> > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the>> > blind leading>> > > the blind.>> > >>> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in> overcoming>> > the basic>> > > ...>> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back> later.>> > But, if one>> > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the> nature>> > of desire.>> > >>> > >>> > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a> purana>> > about>> > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8>> > demons: envy,>> > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, "my-ness" and pride. In> the>> > chapter>> > > where Ganesha destroys the "desire demon", the demon is> described>> > as having>> > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries>> > things up />> > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied.>> > >>> > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire.>> > And in the>> > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually,> one>> > feel's>> > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it> is>> > drying up.>> > >>> > > Ganesha comes to uproot the "desire demon" as the>> > avatAra "vikaTa", which>> > > means "one who is horrible / monstrous". The purana explains> that>> > we have to>> > > see things "as they are". To do this, we should think of> desired>> > objects, as>> > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able> to>> > see>> > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form.>> > >>> > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya' s famous> stotra "moha>> > > mudgara", i.e. taking a hammer to "delusion". This is also> known>> > as "bhaja>> > > govindam". Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember>> > that the>> > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible>> > contortion) of flesh>> > > and fat.>> > >>> > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows> it>> > as it is,>> > > contorted and un-deserving of desire.>> > >>> > > bhavadIyaH,>> > >>> > > ajit Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Stay informed with Xtra News Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008  Namaste Nalini ji, Most people do not experience a mantra. They just mechanically chant it and nothing happens. What you described tells me that you were able to experience the manta to some extent. That is a good sign. Though I have never done the mantra you mentioned, from the name, I would imagine that this mantra makes energy flow in pingala nadi. Different mantras, when they work, force energy to flow in different subtle channel of energy flow in our subtle body, resulting in the perception of a different "experience" to "self". Some mantras (e.g. tryambakam yajaamahe) are extremely cooling and made energy flow in Ida (Chandra) nadi. Some mantras (e.g. Savitri Gayatri) make it flow in Pingala (Surya) nadi. When merely some vaayu (movement of air) enters a nadi also, there is some experience. When the entire energy of self-awareness (aka Kundalini) enters a nadi, it is a very powerful experience and one's perception of self alters drastically. There are thousands of nadis in the body and thousands of possible experiences. The key is to NOT be distracted by the experience. Mystical experiences are signs of spiritual progress, but they are also traps where we can get stuck (i.e. not progress further). Do not think much about the experience. In a normal wakeful experience, our senses perceive various objects of the external world. We know that all that is just superficial and the reality within all of them (i.e. Brahman) is imperceptible to senses. Similarly, whatever our inward-directed senses perceive (e.g. vision of a being, sound of a mantra, feeling of heat from fire engulfing one etc) in an intense meditation session is ALSO superficial (though perhaps less superficial than the objects we see in the external world usually) and the reality within those experiences (i.e. Brahman) is experienced only when you transcend the superficial sense experiences. While it is difficult, the right thing to do when you feel like you described is to ignore it and keep the intense mental focus on the mantra or on the deity. The good thing is that your experience is a sign of spiritual progress and the bad thing is that it can distract you from the final goal. Feeling hot while and *after* meditation and fighting are signs of some diturbation in the pingala nadi. When the corresponding karmas are flushed out of the system, things may be fine. I am not really knowledgeable. With my guru's blessings, I have experienced some things and realized some things. Then he told me to not hold back and boldly declare answers to questions on spirituality and religion as if I just know. I just follow his word and do as he said. It is upto my guru and the Mother to impregnate my words with meaning as they are received by people. From my end, I just type out whatever comes to my mind... Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajarshi nandy Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:19 AM Re: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Dear Nalini Sorry for interrupting in your question to Narasimha.Your mail reminded me of a similar incident. I have a friend who does very severe japa of a mantra she had recieved in a dream. It was a strange dream where she saw a little girl, naked, come and sit on her lap and when she asked teh girl who she (the girl) was, the reply came in sanskrit. Now my friend does not know or even understand Sanskrit, so she could not understand what the girl was saying. Then after some time the girl in the dream kept repeating what sounded like a mantra in her ears. From next day morning my friend started chanting that mantra, after about one and half years of chanting recently she did a sankalpa for chanting and had experinces similar to the kind u described. She felt her whole body was internally burning, though there was no fever. Her relation with her mom started getting bitter with constant fights etc.. Later after some days it reduced again. I think this maybe a way the karmas are cut off from you. I am not sure of course, Narasimha can tell you better. He much more knowledgeable in these things. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, nalini swamy <nalini2818 wrote: nalini swamy <nalini2818Re: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 3:58 PM Dear All, Namaskar. Yes, indeed. I had a doubt that I wanted to ask Narasimha garu. I recited Sree Hanumathbadabanala stotram some time back. I had an unusual experience of 'being on fire', during the initial stages. It was as if I was engulfed in a ball of fire, which slowly receded over time. I had a similar experience during the Navaratri puja when reciting Devi kavacham. I still have that feeling of an aura of fire around me and feel extremely hot and sweat even in the cold weather. This stays on for a time. I also had to face extreme circumstances in 'relationships' that matter to me and there is a steady deterioration, almost as if a heavy veil has been torn asunder. I vaguely remember Narasimha ji telling us in some forum that there might be some ramifications relating to karma that could manifest when/ after sadhana/worship. Could you please clarify, Narasimha garu? Regards Nalini rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 5:36:52 PMRe: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Dear All, Excellent chain of mails indeed, including the metion and significance of teh Vikata Rupa of Ganapati to overcome lust. This is indeed one of the finest internet forums. May Narasimhaji and the other learned members keep up the good work, there is so much that ordinary people like me get to learn just by reading these mails!. -Regards Rajarshi "This above all: to thine own self be true!" - Hamlet--- On Tue, 4/11/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> Re: Regarding BrahamcharyaTuesday, 4 November, 2008, 9:49 AM Guys,I am glad everything is sorted out. But, in general, let us be less defensive and instead focus on subject. Knowing Ajit's nature, I knew exactly what he meant. However, even if Ajit or someone actually said something negative about me, it is not a big deal. One is who one is and words, good or bad, do not change that, for better or worse. Why be sensitive to words then?Ajit, you are certainly qualified in commenting. I always knew that you have tremendous scholarship, great humility and sincerity. People far less qualified than you talk/write so much in today's world. Please do write more.The imagery thrown up by the Puranic story mentioned by you is really nice!Friends,Lord Hanuman is one who fully overcame lust. He can be worshipped for giving self-control.Lord Hrishikesha gives purity and control over senses (hrishika + isha = lord of senses). He can be worshipped for control over senses.Mother Kaali gives dispassion and kills the root of desires. She can be worshipped for getting rid of desires.Several things are possible. But, for most people in today's times, it is not going to be one magic bullet that does it, but a combination of various practices. Patience is needed.Try to increase the understanding of what is permanent and what is transient.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - "utpal pathak" <vedic_pathak@ ><>Monday, November 03, 2008 9:39 PM Re: Regarding Brahamcharya> Namaste,>> Please accept my sincere apology as I misunderstood it completely.>> Best Regrads,>> utpal>> , "Ajit Krishnan"> <ajit.krishnan@ ...> wrote:>>>> namaste,>>>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> Re-reading the formatting of my response, the question is> justified. I meant>> that _my comments_ are a case of the blind leading the blind,> since I am not>> qualified to comment about anything. I did not intend to question>> Narasimha's comments in any way. I apologize for any confusion.>>>> bhavadIyaH,>>>> ajit>>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:51 AM, utpal pathak> <vedic_pathak@ ...>wrote:>>>> > Namaste,>> >>> > may i ask why you felt that it is a blind leading blind?>> >>> > There are many ways to fight desires, especially Lust for> *Sambhog*>> >>> > what you suggested can be ONE of the many ways and infact> everybody>> > in their heart of hearts knows. how much powerful it is. it is> like>> > tsunami which has a capability to sweep off the feat, even the>> > Saints if they are not vigilant.>> >>> > Shivananada says in his manual of Brahmacharya that it requires> to>> > attack the lust from all sides to really overcome and destroy.>> >>> > If some one needs to keepup Brahmacharya, some practical tips> are->> >>> > - Cold water Bath>> > - No Onion, Garlic in food. avoiding very spicy and very Hot> food.>> > - avoiding over eating at night. (Stomach should not be full)>> > - Mditation, Pranaayaam, Japa, Homam or such Saadhanas>> > - Shirsaasan, Sarvaangaasan>> > - Prohibition of seeing TV Channels and Movies>> > - Thinking mentally that all women are Sisters/Mothers>> >>> > Above all, Prayers to the Ishta Devata. unceasing prayer is the> key.>> > without Grace of the Lord, it is impossible to uproot the Desire>> > completely.>> >>> > efforts, efforts and efforts.... prayers, prayers and> prayers...cry>> > and then one will start winning over the most draded of enemies.>> >>> > Vivekananda said "The Character is establised through thousand>> > stumbles" - no need to lose heart.>> >>> > warm regards,>> >>> > utpal>> >>> > , "Ajit Krishnan">> > <ajit.krishnan@ > wrote:>> > >>> > > namaste,>> > >>> > > I apologize for opening my mouth. This is truly a case of the>> > blind leading>> > > the blind.>> > >>> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in> overcoming>> > the basic>> > > ...>> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back> later.>> > But, if one>> > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the> nature>> > of desire.>> > >>> > >>> > > One of my favourite books is the mudgala-purana, which is a> purana>> > about>> > > Ganesha. Here, Ganesha has 8 avatAras, which come to destroy 8>> > demons: envy,>> > > lust, delusion, greed, anger, desire, "my-ness" and pride. In> the>> > chapter>> > > where Ganesha destroys the "desire demon", the demon is> described>> > as having>> > > two children -- shoShaNa and duShpUra i.e. (1) one who dries>> > things up />> > > destroys and (2) one who can never be satisfied.>> > >>> > > Satisfying desire always results in fanning the fire of desire.>> > And in the>> > > process, other things become neglected (dried up). Eventually,> one>> > feel's>> > > guilt / shame, where, again, the heart literally feels like it> is>> > drying up.>> > >>> > > Ganesha comes to uproot the "desire demon" as the>> > avatAra "vikaTa", which>> > > means "one who is horrible / monstrous". The purana explains> that>> > we have to>> > > see things "as they are". To do this, we should think of> desired>> > objects, as>> > > something horrible. The desire falls away, and we will be able> to>> > see>> > > Ganesha in his vikaTa form.>> > >>> > > This technique is described in Shankaracharya' s famous> stotra "moha>> > > mudgara", i.e. taking a hammer to "delusion". This is also> known>> > as "bhaja>> > > govindam". Here, he teaches that we should repeatedly remember>> > that the>> > > female form is merely a modification (rather a horrible>> > contortion) of flesh>> > > and fat.>> > >>> > > Thus, we pray to Ganesha, who illuminates the world, and shows> it>> > as it is,>> > > contorted and un-deserving of desire.>> > >>> > > bhavadIyaH,>> > >>> > > ajit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dear Members I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him as observed by other saints and his brother disciples. Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on this plane. During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his blessings and said " Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a blessing " . Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, " Why do you people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of everything.. " Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach God? I am puzzled... -Regards Rajarshi , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > Namaste, > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > Ok.. > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with him. Someone > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of the deity. > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is good to try > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > Several " normal college going people " were taken under his wings by > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. Swami > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college students > when they met Ramakrishna. > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of Ramakrishna's > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with his > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy to kill > completely. > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the mind. Set a > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that and > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming the basic > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. But, if one > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of desire. > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than Self) or > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much one gets. > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the desire > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is that just > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing desires, but do > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep working on it. > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > That is the right spirit! > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is one thing. > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become attached to > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come together! One > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and brahmacharya > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya first and > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various signs of > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can change from > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability to get > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle! > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > - > Namaste sir > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a > public forum as it may probably offend others. > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > I was thinking this for many days > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a > deity obtain this goal. > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but > after that i am not able to hold it , > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out > of mind > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of Brahamcharya > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing > Brahamcharya > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my > identity from this that would be appreciable > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > regards > <deleted> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Namaste, Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me... 1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense 2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child. 3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children. 4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya). 5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses. 6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs. There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! Warm Regards, Utpal , " rajarshi14 " <rajarshi14 wrote: > > Dear Members > > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples. > > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane. > > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said " Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing " . Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, " Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. " > > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled... > > -Regards > Rajarshi > > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > Ok.. > > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > > > Several " normal college going people " were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna. > > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna's > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely. > > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets. > > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it. > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > That is the right spirit! > > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle! > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > -------------------------------- - > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > -------------------------------- - > > > > - > > Namaste sir > > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a > > public forum as it may probably offend others. > > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > > > I was thinking this for many days > > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that > > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though > > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a > > deity obtain this goal. > > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but > > after that i am not able to hold it , > > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out > > of mind > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya > > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing > > Brahamcharya > > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my > > identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > > > regards > > <deleted> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dear Utpalji actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! That is a wonderful line. Maybe that is what it is finally. Thank you for mailing your thoughts on this. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Wed, 17/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: utpal pathak <vedic_pathak Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008, 12:42 AM Namaste,Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me...1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child.3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children.4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) .5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses.6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs.There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!!Warm Regards,Utpal @ . com, "rajarshi14" <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members> > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples.> > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane.> > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said "Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing". Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, "Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. "> > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled...> > -Regards> Rajarshi> > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote:> >> > Namaste,> > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you> > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > Ok..> > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible.> > > > Several "normal college going people" were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna.> > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna' s > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely.> > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come.> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it.> > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets.> > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it.> > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > That is the right spirit!> > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing.> > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > > > > - > > Namaste sir> > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a> > public forum as it may probably offend others.> > If you have time ,if you could please reply.> > > > I was thinking this for many days> > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya,> > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that> > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though> > he had his deity with him from the very early in life.> > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a> > deity obtain this goal.> > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but> > after that i am not able to hold it ,> > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out> > of mind> > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind> > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya> > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing> > Brahamcharya> > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden.> > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my> > identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail> > > > regards> > <deleted>> >> Connect with friends all over the world. 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Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Namaste,I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me..1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right?2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he was called Maryada purushottam...Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship.. (???) still he was called brahmachari.. how? i am bit confused.. I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya.. it is like cheating yourself... and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of your spouse is also not good.. Please advise.ThanksRajesh--- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak wrote:utpal pathak <vedic_pathak Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM Namaste, Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me... 1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense 2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child. 3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children. 4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) . 5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses. 6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs. There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! Warm Regards, Utpal , "rajarshi14" <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Members > > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples. > > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane. > > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said "Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing". Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, "Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. " > > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled... > > -Regards > Rajarshi > > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > Ok.. > > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > > > Several "normal college going people" were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna. > > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna' s > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely. > > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets. > > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it. > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > That is the right spirit! > > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle! > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - - > > > > - > > Namaste sir > > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a > > public forum as it may probably offend others. > > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > > > I was thinking this for many days > > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that > > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though > > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a > > deity obtain this goal. > > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but > > after that i am not able to hold it , > > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out > > of mind > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya > > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing > > Brahamcharya > > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my > > identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > > > regards > > <deleted> > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Shri Rajesh, Namaskar. You had asked for Utpalji's words, I know.. But wanted to give mho. First, we cannot compare the mortals to the human form of The Lord. Lord Rama could after His Task simply *give up* everything and return to Vaikunta. Sri Krishna at the end of His Avatara waited in the woods for the hunter to be struck in the foot. It lies in the moha or the attachment to the acts that is most significant. Narasimhaji has brilliantly explained in his numerous mails. To be detached in performing duties and surrendering the very *act* to The Divine to me seems to be the best way. It is one of the most difficult of tasks on the path to spirituality. It can be extended to the general duties of the householder too...Like the analogy of Narasimha ji, to think that we are His instruments and if our duty is to deliver the cheque at the bank so be it, do it as best as you can and are meant to and detach your self from the *act* and it's fruits/praise. I remember a quote of Sri Mokshagundam Visweswarayya which influenced me a lot, " If you are a sweeper, sweep so well that no one can excel you in your duty/job". But I have to acknowledge that distancing myself from an excellent job was not easy and always possible ): That little leap felt at praise suffices!!! But still I make an effort to quell it and who knows may eventually succeed. regards Nalini rajesh rajgor <rajesh_rajgor2003 Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 6:33:49 PMRe: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Namaste,I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me..1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya. .right?2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he was called Maryada purushottam. ..Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship. . (???) still he was called brahmachari. . how? i am bit confused.. I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya. . it is like cheating yourself... and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of your spouse is also not good.. Please advise.ThanksRajesh--- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@ > wrote: utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@ > Re: Regarding BrahamcharyaTuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM Namaste,Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me...1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child.3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children.4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) .5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses.6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs.There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!!Warm Regards,Utpal , "rajarshi14" <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members> > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples.> > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane.> > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said "Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing". Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, "Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. "> > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled...> > -Regards> Rajarshi> > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote:> >> > Namaste,> > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you> > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > Ok..> > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible.> > > > Several "normal college going people" were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna.> > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna' s > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely.> > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come.> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it.> > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets.> > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it.> > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > That is the right spirit!> > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing.> > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > > > > - > > Namaste sir> > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a> > public forum as it may probably offend others.> > If you have time ,if you could please reply.> > > > I was thinking this for many days> > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya,> > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that> > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though> > he had his deity with him from the very early in life.> > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a> > deity obtain this goal.> > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but> > after that i am not able to hold it ,> > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out> > of mind> > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind> > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya> > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing> > Brahamcharya> > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden.> > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my> > identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail> > > > regards> > <deleted>> >> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Rajgor Bhai, Kem Chho? > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? The connection between'Desire & Supression' needs to be understood properly, once and for ever so as to understand Control & Annihilation/overcome/rising above Let us take a practical case of day to day life of a common person. Take an Individual 'Z' has a desire for copulation with his wife. He *Satisfies* his desire one day and becomes very satsfied with it. now THAT perticular desire seems to be gone. few days passes on and mr. Z finds that the same Desire has Risen again, he again satsfies the same with the same action. these cycle keeps going on & on for many years. Mr. Z feels like most in the world that this desire to have sexual relationship is 'Natural'. Now let's analysie the above case. Though mr.Z satsfies the want of copulation, it comes back again & again. it means that the desire has never been satsfied even by giving it FOOD Again & again. *** Our spiritual giants equvivocally say that The Energy which is lost during copulation is the BEST Energy available in a person which if restrained, controlled and preserved, can easly become OJAS and can help immensly in the path of Spiritual journey. *** consider that our Mr. Z some how got to read the above paragraph and started seriously thinking about it. He tells himself that he would refrain from intercourse for 3 months. The earlier frequency was 2/3 days, now he suddenly finds that desire has completely overtaken him. after 15 days, he finds that Desire has gone in to his every pour and every thought and he gives up and succumbs to that gigantic force of Kaam Vaasana. This may be called suppression initially which failed the effort. The person again analyses what went wrong and again tries to do the same and again fails. he keeps on trying and keeps on failing. during this battles, he is also exploring and gathering knowledge of experienced people and knowledge from spiritual books. he understands that if he needs to win the Final WAR with this Very Formidable enemy, he needs to do lot of things simultaneously and he then resorts to the help from many quarters. He starts taking cold water bath, starts reading spiritual books, stops reading film magazine, stops watching Films and TV Shows, Reduces eating Onion and garlic, starts doing Yoga Aasan, Meditation and so on and so forth. taking the aids thus he keeps on batteling with the *Natural Desire* and still keeps on loosing. but the good news is that his days of batteling before loosing has increased. started from 10 days, he has now reached the struggeling capacity of 90 days. (WE ARE ASSUMING HERE THAT HIS WIFE IS FULLY COOPERATIVE OF HIS THEATRICS). He is still unhappy about his loosing, although he is able to keep-up the Physical brahmacharya for 3 months. some how he realises that God's grace is the most important thing especially for this perticular matter and he now starts Praying to his favourite Deity every day. he cries and cries and requests the God to save him from this loss. he keeps on trying every thing possible, keeps on praying sincerely and severly, keeps on doing various spiritual sadhanas but still keeps on loosing at as well. over a period of some 8/10 years, the desired change is visible. he has conquered his desire. Now Sexual Desire which was his *Natural* for him has been replaced by Brahmacharya. 'Supression' when combined with Thoughtful Suspension, equipped with every possible preparation and will power to try untiringly again & again finally results in to annihilation. *** > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? If a person who has gained perfect self control but indulges in to the act of copulation only because to satisfy the desire of spouse or to have children, in my opinion, still maintains Brahmacharya. actually brahmacharya is a Nature, It can not be done but it Dawns. *** in the same case, if the wife of Mr.Z is demanding then Z would have fight the one more big battle of either convincing Wife by explainging her, slowly moulding her nature and at the same time surrendering to the Lord. i mean praying lord to change her wife's nature so that she also starts thinking in the same line. as Nalini Bahen has said, accepting everything as Mother's wishes. Brahmachrya or No Brahmacharya. *** friends, please forgive me. i think it was too much...but still i couldn't write many things going across my mind. yours, utpal , rajesh rajgor <rajesh_rajgor2003 wrote: > > > Namaste, > > I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me.. > > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? > > In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he was called Maryada purushottam...Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship.. (???) still he was called brahmachari.. how? i am bit confused.. > > I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya.. it is like cheating yourself.. and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of your spouse is also not good.. Please advise. > > Thanks > > Rajesh > > > > > --- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: > utpal pathak <vedic_pathak > Re: Regarding Brahamcharya > > Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM > > > > > Namaste, > > > > Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on > > occuring to me... > > > > 1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense > > > > 2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has > > mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & > > wife only once a year to biget child. > > > > 3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, > > lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget > > children. > > > > 4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples > > of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri > > Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We > > assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) . > > > > 5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, > > Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints > > were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life > > they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their > > spouses. > > > > 6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical > > brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the > > procreative organs. > > > > There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see > > deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. > > what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well > > as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most > > important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married > > people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly > > before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, > > Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > Utpal > > > > , " rajarshi14 " <rajarshi14@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > > > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > > > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > > > observed by other saints and his brother disciples. > > > > > > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of > > Thakur. > > > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > > > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > > > this plane. > > > > > > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > > > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > > > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the > > disciples > > > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > > > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > > > > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > > > blessings and said " Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > > > blessing " . Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, " Why do you > > > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > > > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim > > of > > > everything.. " > > > > > > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to > > reach > > > God? I am puzzled... > > > > > > -Regards > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " > > > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > > > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > Ok.. > > > > > > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > > > him. Someone > > > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision > > of > > > the deity. > > > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > > > good to try > > > > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > > > > > > > Several " normal college going people " were taken under his wings > > > by > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > > > Swami > > > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > > > students > > > > when they met Ramakrishna. > > > > > > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > > > Ramakrishna' s > > > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust > > with > > > his > > > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all > > easy > > > to kill > > > > completely. > > > > > > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > > > mind. Set a > > > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > > > and > > > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > > > > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > > > the basic > > > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > > > But, if one > > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature > > of > > > desire. > > > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > > > Self) or > > > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > > > one gets. > > > > > > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > > > desire > > > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > > > that just > > > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > > > desires, but do > > > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > > > working on it. > > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , > > if > > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > That is the right spirit! > > > > > > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > > > one thing. > > > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > > > attached to > > > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions > > and > > > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > > > > > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > > > together! One > > > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > > > brahmacharya > > > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > > > first and > > > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > > > signs of > > > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > > > change from > > > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > > > to get > > > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle! > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > - > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > - > > > > > > > > - > > > > Namaste sir > > > > > > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question > > on a > > > > public forum as it may probably offend others. > > > > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > > > > > > > I was thinking this for many days > > > > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > > > > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask > > that > > > > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust > > though > > > > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > > > > > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a > > > > deity obtain this goal. > > > > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but > > > > after that i am not able to hold it , > > > > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go > > out > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > > > > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > > > Brahamcharya > > > > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing > > > > Brahamcharya > > > > > > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my > > > > identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > > > > > > > regards > > > > <deleted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. 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Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008  Namaste, Abstinence is not brahmacharya, but it is a good start towards it. To have the mind established in god and not have any desires spring in it is brahmacharya. But, as long as we keep fulfilling desires, more and more of them keep springing up. The process of overcoming the springing up of new desires often starts with suppressing (and not fulfilling) old desires and take the mind away from it. But, that is the beginning and not the end. * * * Regarding being married and not fulfilling the desire of spouse: One's karmik debts may require one to fulfil the sexual desire of another person. But, the problem is that we incur new debts while paying off old debts in this matter, like in many other matters. In general, if one engages in an action with a detached mind that finds the action neither attractive nor repulsive, one is not committing a new karma and creating new debts to be settled later. One is merely settling old debts with such detached actions. But, if one engages in an action with an attached mind that finds the action either attractive or repulsive, one IS committing a new karma and creating new debts to be settled later. This becomes an endless cycle! Sex is a highly physical action. While engaging in it, it is nearly impossible to detach the mind from body and focus on god. Mind invariably gets attached to the body and its experience. Thus, one is not only settling old debts by giving pleasure, but one also creates a new debt by deriving pleasure again. This is an endless cycle. * * * Scriptures cover a lot of ground and they say a lot of things that may contradict one another. Yes, one who marries and begets children is needed for the continuation of human race and smooth running of society. But, dharma and moksha are different. Performing your duties sincerely is good and takes you to heaven for a while and then brings you back here. For liberation from the cycle, one has to overcome the weaknesses and desires. Do not compare with gods like Rama and Krishna. Our minds are totally different from those of gods and rishis. Krishna was the Ishwara of Yogis, whose mind was eternally in yoga with the Absolute. Actually, his mind may be taken as the definition of Absolute. His mind is not anything like ours. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org - rajesh rajgor Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:33 AM Re: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Namaste,I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me..1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right?2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he was called Maryada purushottam...Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship.. (???) still he was called brahmachari.. how? i am bit confused.. I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya.. it is like cheating yourself... and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of your spouse is also not good.. Please advise.ThanksRajesh--- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak wrote: utpal pathak <vedic_pathak Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM Namaste,Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me...1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child.3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children.4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) .5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses.6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs.There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!!Warm Regards,Utpal , "rajarshi14" <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members> > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples.> > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane.> > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said "Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing". Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, "Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. "> > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled...> > -Regards> Rajarshi> > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote:> >> > Namaste,> > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you> > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > Ok..> > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible.> > > > Several "normal college going people" were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna.> > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna' s > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely.> > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come.> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it.> > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets.> > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it.> > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > That is the right spirit!> > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing.> > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > > > > - > > Namaste sir> > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a> > public forum as it may probably offend others.> > If you have time ,if you could please reply.> > > > I was thinking this for many days> > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya,> > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that> > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though> > he had his deity with him from the very early in life.> > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a> > deity obtain this goal.> > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but> > after that i am not able to hold it ,> > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out> > of mind> > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind> > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya> > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing> > Brahamcharya> > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden.> > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my> > identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail> > > > regards> > <deleted>> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Namaste NarsimhajiDetachment from karma ( kartabhav) is difficult.. and i am at the lowest step of this path finding it much much difficult.. i have lust in me.. i have pride in me.. and i have ego also in me.. i know i need to come out of this.. this is not what i am suppose to do.. i shared this with my friend utpal.. we both are schoolmates and his talk and his attitude was always different from others since our childhood.. i have high regards for him and he had always helped me during the hour of my need.... He is the person who had brought me in this site.. his inspirational talk and thinking had made me thinking about my life, about my self . When we met last i shared my dilema with him too.. he said i must do sadhna.. and there is no shortcut for this.. miracle can happen only through sadhna..Sadhna will only give clarity in your life... and i am doing it..Honestly not much.. but he advised me that i should atleast chant gayatri mantra 20 minutes in a day and i am doing it.. I want help to have control over me myself.. i am lacking it ... you have rightly said that ''WHEN THE CONTROL OVER SELF IS '' PERFECT'' ONE MAY FIND GOD. I want to find god.. i want to feel god.. kindly guide me.. kindly help me.. RegardsRajesh--- On Wed, 17/12/08, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Date: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008, 11:02 PM  Namaste, Abstinence is not brahmacharya, but it is a good start towards it. To have the mind established in god and not have any desires spring in it is brahmacharya. But, as long as we keep fulfilling desires, more and more of them keep springing up. The process of overcoming the springing up of new desires often starts with suppressing (and not fulfilling) old desires and take the mind away from it. But, that is the beginning and not the end. * * * Regarding being married and not fulfilling the desire of spouse: One's karmik debts may require one to fulfil the sexual desire of another person. But, the problem is that we incur new debts while paying off old debts in this matter, like in many other matters. In general, if one engages in an action with a detached mind that finds the action neither attractive nor repulsive, one is not committing a new karma and creating new debts to be settled later. One is merely settling old debts with such detached actions. But, if one engages in an action with an attached mind that finds the action either attractive or repulsive, one IS committing a new karma and creating new debts to be settled later. This becomes an endless cycle! Sex is a highly physical action. While engaging in it, it is nearly impossible to detach the mind from body and focus on god. Mind invariably gets attached to the body and its experience. Thus, one is not only settling old debts by giving pleasure, but one also creates a new debt by deriving pleasure again. This is an endless cycle. * * * Scriptures cover a lot of ground and they say a lot of things that may contradict one another. Yes, one who marries and begets children is needed for the continuation of human race and smooth running of society. But, dharma and moksha are different. Performing your duties sincerely is good and takes you to heaven for a while and then brings you back here. For liberation from the cycle, one has to overcome the weaknesses and desires. Do not compare with gods like Rama and Krishna. Our minds are totally different from those of gods and rishis. Krishna was the Ishwara of Yogis, whose mind was eternally in yoga with the Absolute. Actually, his mind may be taken as the definition of Absolute. His mind is not anything like ours. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - rajesh rajgor Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:33 AM Re: Re: Regarding Brahamcharya Namaste,I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me..1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya. .right?2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he was called Maryada purushottam. ..Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship. . (???) still he was called brahmachari. . how? i am bit confused.. I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya. . it is like cheating yourself... and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of your spouse is also not good.. Please advise.ThanksRajesh--- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@ > wrote: utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@ > Re: Regarding BrahamcharyaTuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM Namaste,Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on occuring to me...1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda has mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & wife only once a year to biget child.3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget children.4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic disciples of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri Sri Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) .5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with their spouses.6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just the procreative organs.There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as well as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like realisation, Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!!Warm Regards,Utpal , "rajarshi14" <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members> > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had come > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to him > observed by other saints and his brother disciples.> > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of Thakur. > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say he > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated on > this plane.> > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna Mission, > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj for > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the disciples > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will never > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > blessings and said "Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > blessing". Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, "Why do you > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final aim of > everything.. "> > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to reach > God? I am puzzled...> > -Regards> Rajarshi> > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote:> >> > Namaste,> > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you> > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > Ok..> > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > him. Someone > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision of > the deity.. > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it is > good to try > > to overcome lust if it is possible.> > > > Several "normal college going people" were taken under his wings > by > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > Swami > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were college > students > > when they met Ramakrishna.> > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > Ramakrishna' s > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust with > his > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all easy > to kill > > completely.> > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of the > mind. Set a > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like that > and > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come.> > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in overcoming > the basic > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it.> > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > But, if one > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature of > desire. > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > Self) or > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how much > one gets.> > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > desire > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > that just > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > desires, but do > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > working on it.> > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > That is the right spirit!> > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya is > one thing. > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > attached to > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions and > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing.> > > > There are several things in spiritual progress.. They all come > together! One > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > brahmacharya > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve brahmacharya > first and > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > signs of > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order can > change from > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your inability > to get > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another angle!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > > > > - > > Namaste sir> > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question on a> > public forum as it may probably offend others.> > If you have time ,if you could please reply.> > > > I was thinking this for many days> > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya,> > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask that> > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust though> > he had his deity with him from the very early in life.> > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even have a> > deity obtain this goal.> > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months but> > after that i am not able to hold it ,> > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go out> > of mind> > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not> > suppress desires but remove them from the root> > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind> > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > Brahamcharya> > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in maintaing> > Brahamcharya> > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden.> > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if> > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , if> > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years> > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove my> > identity from this that would be appreciable> > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail> > > > regards> > <deleted>> >> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! 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Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Dear Utpalbhai, Namaskaar.. kem chhe tu? yaar taro reply vanchine em thayu ke hun ghano vamno chhun.. taru gnan ane tari sadhna ghani chhe ne tari saame maru koi gaju nathi.. sachu kahu to mein taro reply be ke tran vaar vanchyo ane jetli vaar vanchyo mane ema navu navu samjaayu.. ane sachu kahu to ghani evi vaat hati je samjayi pan nahin.. pan etli vaat to chhokkas chhe ke you are great.. i salute you...and i am proud that you are my friend.. Please help me in changing myself.. i want to have control overmyself.. which you know i donot have .. i have requested narsimhaji also to help me pursuing this life.. i want to come out of this.. but my desire to transform myself is not strong.. i know it.. so many factors are making it weak.. i am sure you would have understood what are they? but i will come out of this.. i will have to come out of this.. i need your help for this.. Thanks for your efforts to write to me such loooong reply.. rajesh , " utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote: > > Rajgor Bhai, > > Kem Chho? > > > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? > > The connection between'Desire & Supression' needs to be understood > properly, once and for ever so as to understand Control & > Annihilation/overcome/rising above > > Let us take a practical case of day to day life of a common person. > Take an Individual 'Z' has a desire for copulation with his wife. He > *Satisfies* his desire one day and becomes very satsfied with it. > now THAT perticular desire seems to be gone. few days passes on and > mr. Z finds that the same Desire has Risen again, he again satsfies > the same with the same action. these cycle keeps going on & on for > many years. Mr. Z feels like most in the world that this desire to > have sexual relationship is 'Natural'. > > Now let's analysie the above case. Though mr.Z satsfies the want of > copulation, it comes back again & again. it means that the desire > has never been satsfied even by giving it FOOD Again & again. > *** > Our spiritual giants equvivocally say that The Energy which is lost > during copulation is the BEST Energy available in a person which if > restrained, controlled and preserved, can easly become OJAS and can > help immensly in the path of Spiritual journey. > *** > consider that our Mr. Z some how got to read the above paragraph and > started seriously thinking about it. He tells himself that he would > refrain from intercourse for 3 months. The earlier frequency was 2/3 > days, now he suddenly finds that desire has completely overtaken > him. after 15 days, he finds that Desire has gone in to his every > pour and every thought and he gives up and succumbs to that gigantic > force of Kaam Vaasana. This may be called suppression initially > which failed the effort. The person again analyses what went wrong > and again tries to do the same and again fails. he keeps on trying > and keeps on failing. during this battles, he is also exploring and > gathering knowledge of experienced people and knowledge from > spiritual books. he understands that if he needs to win the Final > WAR with this Very Formidable enemy, he needs to do lot of things > simultaneously and he then resorts to the help from many quarters. > He starts taking cold water bath, starts reading spiritual books, > stops reading film magazine, stops watching Films and TV Shows, > Reduces eating Onion and garlic, starts doing Yoga Aasan, Meditation > and so on and so forth. taking the aids thus he keeps on batteling > with the *Natural Desire* and still keeps on loosing. but the good > news is that his days of batteling before loosing has increased. > started from 10 days, he has now reached the struggeling capacity of > 90 days. (WE ARE ASSUMING HERE THAT HIS WIFE IS FULLY COOPERATIVE OF > HIS THEATRICS). He is still unhappy about his loosing, although he > is able to keep-up the Physical brahmacharya for 3 months. some how > he realises that God's grace is the most important thing especially > for this perticular matter and he now starts Praying to his > favourite Deity every day. he cries and cries and requests the God > to save him from this loss. he keeps on trying every thing possible, > keeps on praying sincerely and severly, keeps on doing various > spiritual sadhanas but still keeps on loosing at as well. over a > period of some 8/10 years, the desired change is visible. he has > conquered his desire. Now Sexual Desire which was his *Natural* for > him has been replaced by Brahmacharya. > > 'Supression' when combined with Thoughtful Suspension, equipped with > every possible preparation and will power to try untiringly again & > again finally results in to annihilation. > > *** > > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? > > If a person who has gained perfect self control but indulges in to > the act of copulation only because to satisfy the desire of spouse > or to have children, in my opinion, still maintains Brahmacharya. > actually brahmacharya is a Nature, It can not be done but it Dawns. > > *** > > in the same case, if the wife of Mr.Z is demanding then Z would have > fight the one more big battle of either convincing Wife by > explainging her, slowly moulding her nature and at the same time > surrendering to the Lord. i mean praying lord to change her wife's > nature so that she also starts thinking in the same line. as Nalini > Bahen has said, accepting everything as Mother's wishes. Brahmachrya > or No Brahmacharya. > > *** > friends, please forgive me. i think it was too much...but still i > couldn't write many things going across my mind. > > yours, > > utpal > > , rajesh rajgor > <rajesh_rajgor2003@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions > in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me.. > > > > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? > > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? > > > > In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO > GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he > was called Maryada purushottam...Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and > 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical > relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together > different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it > seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship.. (???) still he > was called brahmachari.. how? i am bit confused.. > > > > I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling > it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya.. it is like cheating > yourself.. and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire of > your spouse is also not good.. Please advise. > > > > Thanks > > > > Rajesh > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@> wrote: > > utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@> > > Re: Regarding Brahamcharya > > > > Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on > > > > occuring to me... > > > > > > > > 1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense > > > > > > > > 2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda > has > > > > mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband & > > > > wife only once a year to biget child. > > > > > > > > 3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, > > > > lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to beget > > > > children. > > > > > > > > 4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic > disciples > > > > of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri > Sri > > > > Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We > > > > assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) . > > > > > > > > 5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, Jalaaram, > > > > Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other saints > > > > were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life > > > > they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with > their > > > > spouses. > > > > > > > > 6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical > > > > brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just > the > > > > procreative organs. > > > > > > > > There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see > > > > deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common truth. > > > > what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as > well > > > > as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most > > > > important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married > > > > people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly > > > > before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like > realisation, > > > > Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > > > Utpal > > > > > > > > , " rajarshi14 " > <rajarshi14@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had > come > > > > > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I was > > > > > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to > him > > > > > observed by other saints and his brother disciples. > > > > > > > > > > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of > > > > Thakur. > > > > > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say > he > > > > > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated > on > > > > > this plane. > > > > > > > > > > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna > Mission, > > > > > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj > for > > > > > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the > > > > disciples > > > > > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will > never > > > > > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > > > > > > > > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > > > > > blessings and said " Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > > > > > blessing " . Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, " Why do > you > > > > > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any one > > > > > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final > aim > > > > of > > > > > everything.. " > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to > > > > reach > > > > > God? I am puzzled... > > > > > > > > > > -Regards > > > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " > > > > > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > > > > > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity with > > > > > him. Someone > > > > > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a vision > > > > of > > > > > the deity. > > > > > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it > is > > > > > good to try > > > > > > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Several " normal college going people " were taken under his > wings > > > > > by > > > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual giants. > > > > > Swami > > > > > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were > college > > > > > students > > > > > > when they met Ramakrishna. > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > > > > > Ramakrishna' s > > > > > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust > > > > with > > > > > his > > > > > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all > > > > easy > > > > > to kill > > > > > > completely. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of > the > > > > > mind. Set a > > > > > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like > that > > > > > and > > > > > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > > > > > > > > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in > overcoming > > > > > the basic > > > > > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is > not > > > > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back later. > > > > > But, if one > > > > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the nature > > > > of > > > > > desire. > > > > > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other than > > > > > Self) or > > > > > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how > much > > > > > one gets. > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > > > > > desire > > > > > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book is > > > > > that just > > > > > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > > > > > desires, but do > > > > > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > > > > > working on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is > if > > > > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do > it , > > > > if > > > > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the right spirit! > > > > > > > > > > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya > is > > > > > one thing. > > > > > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > > > > > attached to > > > > > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and possessions > > > > and > > > > > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > > > > > together! One > > > > > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > > > > > brahmacharya > > > > > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve > brahmacharya > > > > > first and > > > > > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. Various > > > > > signs of > > > > > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order > can > > > > > change from > > > > > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your > inability > > > > > to get > > > > > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another > angle! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > - > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ > homam > > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. > net > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst > rologer.org > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan > nath.org > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > - > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Namaste sir > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this question > > > > on a > > > > > > public forum as it may probably offend others. > > > > > > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking this for many days > > > > > > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > > > > > > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask > > > > that > > > > > > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust > > > > though > > > > > > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > > > > > > > > > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even > have a > > > > > > deity obtain this goal. > > > > > > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months > but > > > > > > after that i am not able to hold it , > > > > > > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to go > > > > out > > > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > > > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > > > > > > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > > > > > Brahamcharya > > > > > > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in > maintaing > > > > > > Brahamcharya > > > > > > > > > > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do it , > if > > > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can remove > my > > > > > > identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > > > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > <deleted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. 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Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Dear Raju, Have patience ! Narasimha is one of the right persons capable of guiding you. If you are sincere, you'll be helped. although, i write much now a days, i am just like anybody else, struggeling !!! Warm Regards, Utpal , " rajesh_rajgor2003 " <rajesh_rajgor2003 wrote: > > > Dear Utpalbhai, > > Namaskaar.. kem chhe tu? yaar taro reply vanchine em thayu ke hun > ghano vamno chhun.. taru gnan ane tari sadhna ghani chhe ne tari > saame maru koi gaju nathi.. sachu kahu to mein taro reply be ke tran > vaar vanchyo ane jetli vaar vanchyo mane ema navu navu samjaayu.. ane > sachu kahu to ghani evi vaat hati je samjayi pan nahin.. pan etli > vaat to chhokkas chhe ke you are great.. i salute you...and i am > proud that you are my friend.. > > Please help me in changing myself.. i want to have control > overmyself.. which you know i donot have .. i have requested > narsimhaji also to help me pursuing this life.. > > i want to come out of this.. but my desire to transform myself is not > strong.. i know it.. so many factors are making it weak.. i am sure > you would have understood what are they? but i will come out of > this.. i will have to come out of this.. i need your help for this.. > > Thanks for your efforts to write to me such loooong reply.. > > rajesh > , " utpal pathak " > <vedic_pathak@> wrote: > > > > Rajgor Bhai, > > > > Kem Chho? > > > > > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? > > > > The connection between'Desire & Supression' needs to be understood > > properly, once and for ever so as to understand Control & > > Annihilation/overcome/rising above > > > > Let us take a practical case of day to day life of a common person. > > Take an Individual 'Z' has a desire for copulation with his wife. > He > > *Satisfies* his desire one day and becomes very satsfied with it. > > now THAT perticular desire seems to be gone. few days passes on and > > mr. Z finds that the same Desire has Risen again, he again satsfies > > the same with the same action. these cycle keeps going on & on for > > many years. Mr. Z feels like most in the world that this desire to > > have sexual relationship is 'Natural'. > > > > Now let's analysie the above case. Though mr.Z satsfies the want of > > copulation, it comes back again & again. it means that the desire > > has never been satsfied even by giving it FOOD Again & again. > > *** > > Our spiritual giants equvivocally say that The Energy which is lost > > during copulation is the BEST Energy available in a person which if > > restrained, controlled and preserved, can easly become OJAS and can > > help immensly in the path of Spiritual journey. > > *** > > consider that our Mr. Z some how got to read the above paragraph > and > > started seriously thinking about it. He tells himself that he would > > refrain from intercourse for 3 months. The earlier frequency was > 2/3 > > days, now he suddenly finds that desire has completely overtaken > > him. after 15 days, he finds that Desire has gone in to his every > > pour and every thought and he gives up and succumbs to that > gigantic > > force of Kaam Vaasana. This may be called suppression initially > > which failed the effort. The person again analyses what went wrong > > and again tries to do the same and again fails. he keeps on trying > > and keeps on failing. during this battles, he is also exploring and > > gathering knowledge of experienced people and knowledge from > > spiritual books. he understands that if he needs to win the Final > > WAR with this Very Formidable enemy, he needs to do lot of things > > simultaneously and he then resorts to the help from many quarters. > > He starts taking cold water bath, starts reading spiritual books, > > stops reading film magazine, stops watching Films and TV Shows, > > Reduces eating Onion and garlic, starts doing Yoga Aasan, > Meditation > > and so on and so forth. taking the aids thus he keeps on batteling > > with the *Natural Desire* and still keeps on loosing. but the good > > news is that his days of batteling before loosing has increased. > > started from 10 days, he has now reached the struggeling capacity > of > > 90 days. (WE ARE ASSUMING HERE THAT HIS WIFE IS FULLY COOPERATIVE > OF > > HIS THEATRICS). He is still unhappy about his loosing, although he > > is able to keep-up the Physical brahmacharya for 3 months. some how > > he realises that God's grace is the most important thing especially > > for this perticular matter and he now starts Praying to his > > favourite Deity every day. he cries and cries and requests the God > > to save him from this loss. he keeps on trying every thing > possible, > > keeps on praying sincerely and severly, keeps on doing various > > spiritual sadhanas but still keeps on loosing at as well. over a > > period of some 8/10 years, the desired change is visible. he has > > conquered his desire. Now Sexual Desire which was his *Natural* for > > him has been replaced by Brahmacharya. > > > > 'Supression' when combined with Thoughtful Suspension, equipped > with > > every possible preparation and will power to try untiringly again & > > again finally results in to annihilation. > > > > *** > > > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? > > > > If a person who has gained perfect self control but indulges in to > > the act of copulation only because to satisfy the desire of spouse > > or to have children, in my opinion, still maintains Brahmacharya. > > actually brahmacharya is a Nature, It can not be done but it Dawns. > > > > *** > > > > in the same case, if the wife of Mr.Z is demanding then Z would > have > > fight the one more big battle of either convincing Wife by > > explainging her, slowly moulding her nature and at the same time > > surrendering to the Lord. i mean praying lord to change her wife's > > nature so that she also starts thinking in the same line. as Nalini > > Bahen has said, accepting everything as Mother's wishes. > Brahmachrya > > or No Brahmacharya. > > > > *** > > friends, please forgive me. i think it was too much...but still i > > couldn't write many things going across my mind. > > > > yours, > > > > utpal > > > > , rajesh rajgor > > <rajesh_rajgor2003@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > I have read the contents of utpal.. that had raised few questions > > in to my mind.. i would be happy if utpal can answer me.. > > > > > > 1. Supressing desire cannot be termed as a brahmacharya..right? > > > 2. To control desire is also not brahmacharya? > > > > > > In our vedic books also, it is specifically mentioned that DHANYO > > GRUHASTHASHARAM. Lord rama was also married and had kids..still he > > was called Maryada purushottam...Lord Krishna has 8 patranis and > > 16000 gopia.. well does it mean that Lord krishna had physical > > relationship with all of them.. or he had not? that is all together > > different issue..But lord krishna was shringar priya and it > > seems that he had enjoyed physical realtionship.. (???) still he > > was called brahmachari.. how? i am bit confused.. > > > > > > I personally feel that to have sexual desire and not fulfilling > > it, cannot be termed as brahmacharya.. it is like cheating > > yourself.. and if you are married and if you donot fulfill desire > of > > your spouse is also not good.. Please advise. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Rajesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 16/12/08, utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@> wrote: > > > utpal pathak <vedic_pathak@> > > > Re: Regarding Brahamcharya > > > > > > Tuesday, 16 December, 2008, 2:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me put some thoughts and i'll continue writng as it keeps on > > > > > > occuring to me... > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Thakur's marraige was never a marriage in physical sense > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) The author of 'Autobiography of a Yogi', Paramhamsa Yogananda > > has > > > > > > mentioned in the same book that his parents lived like a Husband > & > > > > > > wife only once a year to biget child. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) I've read some where that our ancient Rishis though married, > > > > > > lived extremely restarined married life and that too only to > beget > > > > > > children. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Adi Shankaracharya, Swami Vivekananda and all monastic > > disciples > > > > > > of Thakur, Swami Sivanada, Gnaneshwar, SainBaba, Aurobindo, Sri > > Sri > > > > > > Ravishankar and countless known realised souls never married (We > > > > > > assume that they maintained perfect brahmacharya) . > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Many saints such as Tukaaram, Eknaath, Narasee Mehta, > Jalaaram, > > > > > > Rishis of yore, Ekanaath, Mirabai, Jana Bai, and many other > saints > > > > > > were married. but i am confident that at some stage in their life > > > > > > they would have ended, forever, the physical relationship with > > their > > > > > > spouses. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6)complete Brahmachaya includes Physical & Mental. physical > > > > > > brahmacharya includes Restrain of all the indriyaas and not just > > the > > > > > > procreative organs. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many things looks contradictory in above but if one see > > > > > > deeper then there is a wonderful synergy. there is a common > truth. > > > > > > what i've started believing from the above written thoughts as > > well > > > > > > as many unwritten thoughts is that Brahmachrya is one of the most > > > > > > important vertue for realisation. but it seems that even married > > > > > > people will also start maintaining that, knowingly or unknowingly > > > > > > before final realisation. actually, it seems that Like > > realisation, > > > > > > Brahmachrya aslo DAWNS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Utpal > > > > > > > > > > > > , " rajarshi14 " > > <rajarshi14@ ...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was re reading this thread on the light of something I had > > come > > > > > > > across very recently. This is regarding Swami Brahmananda. I > was > > > > > > > reading a book on his life and various incidents connected to > > him > > > > > > > observed by other saints and his brother disciples. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swami Brahmananda or Rakhal Maharaj was the spiritual son of > > > > > > Thakur. > > > > > > > And no doubt a great spiritual super giant. Thakur used to say > > he > > > > > > > was one of Sri Krishna's eternal playmates who had reincarnated > > on > > > > > > > this plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During his stay in various monastaries of the Ramakrishna > > Mission, > > > > > > > often other monks used to send new initiates to Rakhal Maharaj > > for > > > > > > > hios blessings. It was a generally accepted idea among the > > > > > > disciples > > > > > > > of Thakur that any one who is blessed by Rakhal Maharaj will > > never > > > > > > > again be troubled by problems of lack of Brahmacharya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One day an individual came to Rakhal Maharaj asking for his > > > > > > > blessings and said " Maharaj, please give me brahmacharya as a > > > > > > > blessing " . Hearing this suddenly Rakhal Maharaj said, " Why do > > you > > > > > > > people always come asking for Brahmacharya? Was does not any > one > > > > > > > come to me asking me to give him/her God? Isn't God the final > > aim > > > > > > of > > > > > > > everything.. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible for someone who cannot maintain brahmacharya to > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > God? I am puzzled... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Regards > > > > > > > Rajarshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " > > > > > > > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you > > > > > > > > > can remove my identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vimalananda may have overcome lust after having his deity > with > > > > > > > him. Someone > > > > > > > > else may have to first overcome his lust even to have a > vision > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the deity. > > > > > > > > What is good for goose is not good for gander. In general, it > > is > > > > > > > good to try > > > > > > > > to overcome lust if it is possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Several " normal college going people " were taken under his > > wings > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and transformed into spiritual > giants. > > > > > > > Swami > > > > > > > > Vivekananda, Swami Brahmananda, Swami Yogananda etc were > > college > > > > > > > students > > > > > > > > when they met Ramakrishna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it is not easy to overcome lust at all. Several of > > > > > > > Ramakrishna' s > > > > > > > > disciples also struggled with it initially and overcame lust > > > > > > with > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > blessings. Lust is a very basic human instinct and not at all > > > > > > easy > > > > > > > to kill > > > > > > > > completely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the beginning, it is ok if the thought does not go out of > > the > > > > > > > mind. Set a > > > > > > > > rule for 20 days or 40 days or 108 days or some period like > > that > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > maintain physical brahmacharya. Don't worry if thoughts come. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feeling of guilt is a weight and it does not help in > > overcoming > > > > > > > the basic > > > > > > > > problem. Don't be over-burdened by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is > > not > > > > > > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True, suppressing desire will make the desire come back > later. > > > > > > > But, if one > > > > > > > > keeps fulfilling desires, they never end!! This is the > nature > > > > > > of > > > > > > > desire. > > > > > > > > Whether one desires money or knowledge (of anything other > than > > > > > > > Self) or > > > > > > > > physical pleasures, the desire will never end no matter how > > much > > > > > > > one gets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing desire from the root often requires suppressing the > > > > > > > desire > > > > > > > > temporarily. But the thing to remember from the Aghora book > is > > > > > > > that just > > > > > > > > suppressing desire is not sufficient. Practice suppressing > > > > > > > desires, but do > > > > > > > > remember that the final goal is to uproot it fully and keep > > > > > > > working on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is > > if > > > > > > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do > > it , > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the right spirit! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spiritual progress involves a lot of things and brahmacharya > > is > > > > > > > one thing. > > > > > > > > The most fundamental thing is to overcome ego and not become > > > > > > > attached to > > > > > > > > things. Developing detachment to one's actions and > possessions > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > developing a sense of surrender is the most fundamental thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are several things in spiritual progress. They all come > > > > > > > together! One > > > > > > > > person may develop detachment to actions and possessions and > > > > > > > brahmacharya > > > > > > > > may become easy as a result. One person may achieve > > brahmacharya > > > > > > > first and > > > > > > > > detachment may become easy as a result and come later. > Various > > > > > > > signs of > > > > > > > > spiritual progress come almost together, but the exact order > > can > > > > > > > change from > > > > > > > > person to person. Thus, do not be disappointed by your > > inability > > > > > > > to get > > > > > > > > something. It may be possible to work it out from another > > angle! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > - > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ > > homam > > > > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: > > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. > > net > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst > > rologer.org > > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan > > nath.org > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ --- > > - > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Namaste sir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know you are lot busy but since i couldn;t ask this > question > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > > public forum as it may probably offend others. > > > > > > > > If you have time ,if you could please reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking this for many days > > > > > > > > that as mentioned in recent thread on brahamcharya, > > > > > > > > it was important to maintain brahamcharya but i wanted to ask > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > even vimalananda had to work for 6 years for overcoming lust > > > > > > though > > > > > > > > he had his deity with him from the very early in life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how can normal college going people like me who don't even > > have a > > > > > > > > deity obtain this goal. > > > > > > > > Though i try to maintain physical brahamcharya for few months > > but > > > > > > > > after that i am not able to hold it , > > > > > > > > and even if i maintain some physical chastity it refuses to > go > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover, what i read in AGHORA was the important thing is not > > > > > > > > suppress desires but remove them from the root > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, how can i finish it completely from my mind > > > > > > > > Though i have read Swami Sivananda's book on Practice of > > > > > > > Brahamcharya > > > > > > > > but i don't think i have made any spiritual progress in > > maintaing > > > > > > > > Brahamcharya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and sometimes it makes me guilt ridden. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason for which i keep trying for brahamcharya is if > > > > > > > > vimalananda took such a long time probasbly i can also do > it , > > if > > > > > > > > not in 6 years at least in 10-12 years > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you can also reply on VEDIC WISDOM group but if you can > remove > > my > > > > > > > > identity from this that would be appreciable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if what i worte offended you please delete this mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > <deleted> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect with friends all over the world. 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