Women reading Vedas (reading/learning the veda)

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimhaji,

Pranam & thanks for the detailed illuminating post.

I was given to understand that 'initiation' by 'Guru' helps in

process of learning vedic knowledge, so much so that even if Guru

does not explain all the meanings of the mantras/richas, initiation

by the Guru by itself accelerates the process of learning, akin to as

mentioned by you in " keep chanting it " .

 

Only someone who has gone through such experience can comment

regarding the validity of this understanding.

 

May Lord Shrikrishna bless us with this Jnan.

 

regards,

Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu

Himanshu Mohan

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste Rohini,

>

> > Can you recommend a good, unbiased translation of the entire vedic

> > text in English or Hindi?

>

> Vedic literature has meanings at many levels. Translations

available today

> give only the literal meanings and not of much use.

>

> One can try reading " Secret of the Veda " by Swami Aurobindo. It

does not

> give a translation of the entire Vedic text and covers only a few

selected

> verses. However, it is the most in-depth treatment I have ever come

across.

> It is definitely the work of a reborn rishi. I have no doubt.

>

> You take any Vedic verse, learn the correct chanting and keep

chanting it

> mentally. You may start out with a limited/flawed understanding of

what it

> means, but eventually it may reveal itself to you more fully. Vedic

verses

> have that ability.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> -

> " rohinipurang " <rohinipurang

>

> Monday, February 26, 2007 12:27 AM

> Women reading Vedas (Re: reading/learning

the veda)

>

>

> > Thank you Narasimha

> >

> > Your 'rambling' was indeed very interesting and enlightening, esp

abt

> > the stree sharira. So, I take it, that there is nothing in the

vedic

> > text itself debarring women.

> >

> > Can you recommend a good, unbiased translation of the entire vedic

> > text in English or Hindi?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rohini

> >

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Namaste friends,

> >>

> >> We are living in Kali yuga and Kali is becoming deeper. We cannot

> > trust that

> >> every standard convention is based on sound knowledge.

> >>

> >> * * *

> >>

> >> One of my favorite sooktas is " Devi Sooktam " from Rigveda. It is

> > attributed

> >> to Vagambhrani, a female rishi. She felt oneness with the Divine

> > Mother in

> >> Her undivided supreme form (nearly nirguna form) and the riks of

> > Devi

> >> sooktam were revealed to her then. Those eight riks are really

> > fantastic.

> >>

> >> There are other riks in Rigveda that were revealed to the world

by

> > female

> >> rishis. We use those riks in our worship, meditation, homas and

> > other

> >> sadhanas. Yet, should we insist that women cannot recite Veda? If

> >> Vagambhrani is amid us again as a woman, should we stop her from

> > reciting

> >> Devi sooktam?

> >>

> >> * * *

> >>

> >> Jnaneshwar (or Jnanadev) was a great saint from Maharashtra from

> > about 800

> >> years back. He was a great devotee of Krishna and was a fully

self-

> > realized

> >> master at a young age. He reformed religion and corrected some

> > corrupt

> >> traditions. He once made a buffalo chant Veda.

> >>

> >> He started to recite Veda and the head of the Brahmin council

> > forbade him

> >> because he was not " qualified " to recite Veda. Jnaneshwar

insisted

> > that

> >> everyone had a right to recite Veda and the head of the council

> > disagreed.

> >> As he started reciting Veda, the Brahmins tried to stop him by

> > closing his

> >> mouth. Then a buffalo standing next to him took over and chanted

> > Veda.

> >> Astounded by the miracle, the Brahmins fell at his feet. The head

> > apologized

> >> and said, " we are masquerading as the keepers of Veda, but you

have

> > the real

> >> understanding and mastery of Veda " .

> >>

> >> Jnaneshwar taught the equality of all and did not distinguish

> > between people

> >> based on caste, creed or gender. He considered BhagavadGita as

the

> > essence

> >> of Veda and wrote a fantastic commentary on it. His commentary

> > departs from

> >> the standard Dwaitic (dualistic) point of view adopted by most

> > Vaishnava

> >> gurus and uses a purely Adwaitic (non-dualistic) point of view.

It

> > is a

> >> priceless and timeless masterpiece.

> >>

> >> * * *

> >>

> >> One Swamiji who was at my house last month had an interesting

take.

> > He said

> >> that the belief that women cannot recite Vedas is based on a

> >> misinterpretation. He said that the physical body we have is

called

> > the

> >> " stree sareera " and the inner body we have is called the " purusha

> > sareera " .

> >> He said that the physical body comes from mother and the soul

comes

> > from

> >> father and that is why they are called so. The soul or inner self

> > is the

> >> thousand-headed purusha within us (described in purusha sooktam).

> >>

> >> He said that Veda is supposed to be recited with the purusha

> > sareera.

> >> According to him, it does not mean that women cannot read it.

> > Whether men or

> >> women, they have to read it with the purusha sareera, i.e. inner

> > body, and

> >> not just with the physical body. So, according to him, the

standard

> >> convention is based on a flawed understanding. According to him,

> > one simply

> >> reciting Veda with the mouth without the correct internal

> > understanding is

> >> only reading with the " stree sareera " and hence not doing the

right

> > thing.

> >>

> >> * * *

> >>

> >> In fact, reciting Veda and chanting the verses is one thing and

> >> understanding them is quite another. When we make sound, there

are

> > four

> >> levels of it - vaikhari, madhyama, pasyanti and para. Vibration

of

> > material

> >> belonging to the gross body (sthoola sareera) produces vaikhari

> > level of

> >> sound and it is heard through the senses belonging to the gross

> > body (ears).

> >> But vibrations at the level of subtle body (sookshma sareera) and

> > vibrations

> >> at the level of astral body (kaarana sareera) are also there and

> > can be

> >> perceived thorough subtle perception.

> >>

> >> If one is chanting " Om Namo Narayanaya " and thinking of some

> > mundane

> >> matters, the vibrations produced at levels above vaikhari will

not

> > be

> >> auspicious. There is so much stress on what we do physically and

> > people

> >> forget that what happens at the other layers of existence is

> > equally, if not

> >> more, important!

> >>

> >> If you produce the correct vibrations at all levels (not just

> > physical)

> >> while " reciting " any Vedic mantra, you can truly " experience " the

> > mantra. A

> >> full experience of a single Vedic mantra may be sufficient to

alter

> > one's

> >> life! The mantras of Veda are most powerful. Unfortunately, so

much

> > of Vedic

> >> scholarship these days is only superficial (but it has to be

> > encouraged,

> >> because it will keep atleast one level of knowledge alive).

> >>

> >> Forget the man vs woman controversy. The difference between

genders

> > is only

> >> in the gross body. When you go to the subtle body and astral

body,

> > there is

> >> no difference at all. One should realize that the role of gross

> > body is too

> >> limited in the correct recitation/experience of a Vedic mantra.

It

> > is the

> >> purity of the subtle body and the lightness of the astral body

that

> > are far

> >> more important.

> >>

> >> * * *

> >>

> >> To be fair and balanced, I need to throw light on the other

angle.

> > Like I

> >> said, Vedic mantras are too powerful. They are capable of

producing

> > a full

> >> self-realization (actually the sole purpose of Veda is " to know

> > self " ).

> >> However, given the depth of Kali Yuga, it is difficult for it to

> > come in one

> >> shot. It comes in steps. When one is half way down the path, one

> > has to be

> >> careful and under the vigilant guidance of a sadguru.

> >>

> >> When one is not fully realized and the gross body has a role to

> > play, there

> >> are some differences based on the gender that come into play.

> >>

> >> If a lady carrying a baby in her womb has certain spiritual

> > experiences

> >> (which a good Vedic chanting is capable of bringing), there can

> > even be an

> >> abortion (or a great siddha being born, on the other extreme).

> >>

> >> There is another subtle factor. Good Vedic chanting can bring an

> > awakening

> >> of Kundalini (i.e. an awakening of self-awareness) and an ascent

of

> >> Kundalini (i.e. an ascent of self-awareness). Though some people

> > may have a

> >> wrong impression about Kundalini because of the corrupt practices

> > of a

> >> section of so-called " Kundalini sadhakas " , the fact is that

> > Kundalini merely

> >> represents one's ego-consciousness. When one casually associates

> > the body

> >> one sees with " self " , Kundalini is asleep in the Mooladhara

chakra.

> > As one's

> >> self-awareness becomes more and more refined, Kundalini ascends

in

> > the

> >> sookshma sareera. As one has a perfect self-realization,

Kundalini

> > reaches

> >> Sahasrara. Whether one thinks in these terms or not, Kundalini

> > moves based

> >> on how evolved one is. Whether one is into Bhakti yoga or Raja

yoga

> > or Karma

> >> yoga or Jnana yoga does not matter. All paths lead to an

awareness

> > of a more

> >> and more correct concept of self as time progresses and a full

> >> self-realization finally. Accordingly, Kundalini rises more and

> > more and

> >> reaches Sahasrara at the end.

> >>

> >> During the period when Kundalini is stuck in Swadhishthana

chakra,

> > sexual

> >> drive can multiply. Several yogis get stuck in this stage and

fail

> > the tests

> >> to progress further. In general, women have a higher drive than

> > men. If that

> >> drive multiplies, there can be a difficult situation. However, it

> > really

> >> depends on the individual and we cannot generalize.

> >>

> >> Thus, there are some practical difficulties on the way, which may

> > have made

> >> some people come up with some rules. However, are those issues

> > sufficient to

> >> ban women from reciting Veda? I don't think so. In fact, the

> > factors I wrote

> >> above are probably irrelevant given the superficial understanding

> > of Veda

> >> present at this time and the superficial recitation of Veda that

we

> > find

> >> these days.

> >>

> >> But, if you want to be sure and do not want to misguide anyone,

it

> > is better

> >> to not give any advice. Leave it to one's sadguru. If you have a

> > sadguru who

> >> is guiding your spiritual sadhana, surrender and do as your guru

> > says! What

> >> is good for goose may not be good for gander. What goose's guru

> > taught to

> >> goose may be good only for goose and not for gander. Gander will

do

> > well to

> >> follow gander's guru.

> >>

> >> I think I rambled enough for today... :-)

> >>

> >> Best regards,

> >> Narasimha

> >> -------------------------------

> >> Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> >> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> >> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> >> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> >> -------------------------------

> >>

> >> -

> >> " rohinipurang " <rohinipurang@>

> >>

> >> Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:18 PM

> >> reading/learning the veda

> >>

> >>

> >> >A warm namaste to everyone!

> >> >

> >> > I have heard it said that women are not allowed to

> > read/know/recite the

> >> > vedas. Can anyone tell me if this is true? If so, is there any

> > mantra

> >> > (or evidence)in any of the Vedas which says this?

> >> >

> >> > I ask this not as a disrespectful argument but as a genuine

> > desire to

> >> > know what the text actually says, if it does indeed say

anything

> > at all

> >> > on the subject.

> >> >

> >> > Also I have heard that a Brahmin who does have the right to

> > recite/use

> >> > the mantras has to follow a certain (very strict) way of life.

Is

> > this

> >> > too mentioned in any of these 'books' (for want of a better

word)?

> >> >

> >> > Regards

> >> >

> >> > Rohini

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > || Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

> >

> >