Women reading Vedas (reading/learning the veda)

[Guest guest]

Thank you Narasimha

 

Your 'rambling' was indeed very interesting and enlightening, esp abt

the stree sharira. So, I take it, that there is nothing in the vedic

text itself debarring women.

 

Can you recommend a good, unbiased translation of the entire vedic

text in English or Hindi?

 

Regards

 

Rohini

 

 

, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> We are living in Kali yuga and Kali is becoming deeper. We cannot

trust that

> every standard convention is based on sound knowledge.

>

> * * *

>

> One of my favorite sooktas is " Devi Sooktam " from Rigveda. It is

attributed

> to Vagambhrani, a female rishi. She felt oneness with the Divine

Mother in

> Her undivided supreme form (nearly nirguna form) and the riks of

Devi

> sooktam were revealed to her then. Those eight riks are really

fantastic.

>

> There are other riks in Rigveda that were revealed to the world by

female

> rishis. We use those riks in our worship, meditation, homas and

other

> sadhanas. Yet, should we insist that women cannot recite Veda? If

> Vagambhrani is amid us again as a woman, should we stop her from

reciting

> Devi sooktam?

>

> * * *

>

> Jnaneshwar (or Jnanadev) was a great saint from Maharashtra from

about 800

> years back. He was a great devotee of Krishna and was a fully self-

realized

> master at a young age. He reformed religion and corrected some

corrupt

> traditions. He once made a buffalo chant Veda.

>

> He started to recite Veda and the head of the Brahmin council

forbade him

> because he was not " qualified " to recite Veda. Jnaneshwar insisted

that

> everyone had a right to recite Veda and the head of the council

disagreed.

> As he started reciting Veda, the Brahmins tried to stop him by

closing his

> mouth. Then a buffalo standing next to him took over and chanted

Veda.

> Astounded by the miracle, the Brahmins fell at his feet. The head

apologized

> and said, " we are masquerading as the keepers of Veda, but you have

the real

> understanding and mastery of Veda " .

>

> Jnaneshwar taught the equality of all and did not distinguish

between people

> based on caste, creed or gender. He considered BhagavadGita as the

essence

> of Veda and wrote a fantastic commentary on it. His commentary

departs from

> the standard Dwaitic (dualistic) point of view adopted by most

Vaishnava

> gurus and uses a purely Adwaitic (non-dualistic) point of view. It

is a

> priceless and timeless masterpiece.

>

> * * *

>

> One Swamiji who was at my house last month had an interesting take.

He said

> that the belief that women cannot recite Vedas is based on a

> misinterpretation. He said that the physical body we have is called

the

> " stree sareera " and the inner body we have is called the " purusha

sareera " .

> He said that the physical body comes from mother and the soul comes

from

> father and that is why they are called so. The soul or inner self

is the

> thousand-headed purusha within us (described in purusha sooktam).

>

> He said that Veda is supposed to be recited with the purusha

sareera.

> According to him, it does not mean that women cannot read it.

Whether men or

> women, they have to read it with the purusha sareera, i.e. inner

body, and

> not just with the physical body. So, according to him, the standard

> convention is based on a flawed understanding. According to him,

one simply

> reciting Veda with the mouth without the correct internal

understanding is

> only reading with the " stree sareera " and hence not doing the right

thing.

>

> * * *

>

> In fact, reciting Veda and chanting the verses is one thing and

> understanding them is quite another. When we make sound, there are

four

> levels of it - vaikhari, madhyama, pasyanti and para. Vibration of

material

> belonging to the gross body (sthoola sareera) produces vaikhari

level of

> sound and it is heard through the senses belonging to the gross

body (ears).

> But vibrations at the level of subtle body (sookshma sareera) and

vibrations

> at the level of astral body (kaarana sareera) are also there and

can be

> perceived thorough subtle perception.

>

> If one is chanting " Om Namo Narayanaya " and thinking of some

mundane

> matters, the vibrations produced at levels above vaikhari will not

be

> auspicious. There is so much stress on what we do physically and

people

> forget that what happens at the other layers of existence is

equally, if not

> more, important!

>

> If you produce the correct vibrations at all levels (not just

physical)

> while " reciting " any Vedic mantra, you can truly " experience " the

mantra. A

> full experience of a single Vedic mantra may be sufficient to alter

one's

> life! The mantras of Veda are most powerful. Unfortunately, so much

of Vedic

> scholarship these days is only superficial (but it has to be

encouraged,

> because it will keep atleast one level of knowledge alive).

>

> Forget the man vs woman controversy. The difference between genders

is only

> in the gross body. When you go to the subtle body and astral body,

there is

> no difference at all. One should realize that the role of gross

body is too

> limited in the correct recitation/experience of a Vedic mantra. It

is the

> purity of the subtle body and the lightness of the astral body that

are far

> more important.

>

> * * *

>

> To be fair and balanced, I need to throw light on the other angle.

Like I

> said, Vedic mantras are too powerful. They are capable of producing

a full

> self-realization (actually the sole purpose of Veda is " to know

self " ).

> However, given the depth of Kali Yuga, it is difficult for it to

come in one

> shot. It comes in steps. When one is half way down the path, one

has to be

> careful and under the vigilant guidance of a sadguru.

>

> When one is not fully realized and the gross body has a role to

play, there

> are some differences based on the gender that come into play.

>

> If a lady carrying a baby in her womb has certain spiritual

experiences

> (which a good Vedic chanting is capable of bringing), there can

even be an

> abortion (or a great siddha being born, on the other extreme).

>

> There is another subtle factor. Good Vedic chanting can bring an

awakening

> of Kundalini (i.e. an awakening of self-awareness) and an ascent of

> Kundalini (i.e. an ascent of self-awareness). Though some people

may have a

> wrong impression about Kundalini because of the corrupt practices

of a

> section of so-called " Kundalini sadhakas " , the fact is that

Kundalini merely

> represents one's ego-consciousness. When one casually associates

the body

> one sees with " self " , Kundalini is asleep in the Mooladhara chakra.

As one's

> self-awareness becomes more and more refined, Kundalini ascends in

the

> sookshma sareera. As one has a perfect self-realization, Kundalini

reaches

> Sahasrara. Whether one thinks in these terms or not, Kundalini

moves based

> on how evolved one is. Whether one is into Bhakti yoga or Raja yoga

or Karma

> yoga or Jnana yoga does not matter. All paths lead to an awareness

of a more

> and more correct concept of self as time progresses and a full

> self-realization finally. Accordingly, Kundalini rises more and

more and

> reaches Sahasrara at the end.

>

> During the period when Kundalini is stuck in Swadhishthana chakra,

sexual

> drive can multiply. Several yogis get stuck in this stage and fail

the tests

> to progress further. In general, women have a higher drive than

men. If that

> drive multiplies, there can be a difficult situation. However, it

really

> depends on the individual and we cannot generalize.

>

> Thus, there are some practical difficulties on the way, which may

have made

> some people come up with some rules. However, are those issues

sufficient to

> ban women from reciting Veda? I don't think so. In fact, the

factors I wrote

> above are probably irrelevant given the superficial understanding

of Veda

> present at this time and the superficial recitation of Veda that we

find

> these days.

>

> But, if you want to be sure and do not want to misguide anyone, it

is better

> to not give any advice. Leave it to one's sadguru. If you have a

sadguru who

> is guiding your spiritual sadhana, surrender and do as your guru

says! What

> is good for goose may not be good for gander. What goose's guru

taught to

> goose may be good only for goose and not for gander. Gander will do

well to

> follow gander's guru.

>

> I think I rambled enough for today... :-)

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> -

> " rohinipurang " <rohinipurang

>

> Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:18 PM

> reading/learning the veda

>

>

> >A warm namaste to everyone!

> >

> > I have heard it said that women are not allowed to

read/know/recite the

> > vedas. Can anyone tell me if this is true? If so, is there any

mantra

> > (or evidence)in any of the Vedas which says this?

> >

> > I ask this not as a disrespectful argument but as a genuine

desire to

> > know what the text actually says, if it does indeed say anything

at all

> > on the subject.

> >

> > Also I have heard that a Brahmin who does have the right to

recite/use

> > the mantras has to follow a certain (very strict) way of life. Is

this

> > too mentioned in any of these 'books' (for want of a better word)?

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rohini

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Rohini,

 

> Can you recommend a good, unbiased translation of the entire vedic

> text in English or Hindi?

 

Vedic literature has meanings at many levels. Translations available today

give only the literal meanings and not of much use.

 

One can try reading " Secret of the Veda " by Swami Aurobindo. It does not

give a translation of the entire Vedic text and covers only a few selected

verses. However, it is the most in-depth treatment I have ever come across.

It is definitely the work of a reborn rishi. I have no doubt.

 

You take any Vedic verse, learn the correct chanting and keep chanting it

mentally. You may start out with a limited/flawed understanding of what it

means, but eventually it may reveal itself to you more fully. Vedic verses

have that ability.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

 

-

" rohinipurang " <rohinipurang

 

Monday, February 26, 2007 12:27 AM

Women reading Vedas (Re: reading/learning the veda)

 

 

> Thank you Narasimha

>

> Your 'rambling' was indeed very interesting and enlightening, esp abt

> the stree sharira. So, I take it, that there is nothing in the vedic

> text itself debarring women.

>

> Can you recommend a good, unbiased translation of the entire vedic

> text in English or Hindi?

>

> Regards

>

> Rohini

>

>

> , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

> wrote:

>>

>> Namaste friends,

>>

>> We are living in Kali yuga and Kali is becoming deeper. We cannot

> trust that

>> every standard convention is based on sound knowledge.

>>

>> * * *

>>

>> One of my favorite sooktas is " Devi Sooktam " from Rigveda. It is

> attributed

>> to Vagambhrani, a female rishi. She felt oneness with the Divine

> Mother in

>> Her undivided supreme form (nearly nirguna form) and the riks of

> Devi

>> sooktam were revealed to her then. Those eight riks are really

> fantastic.

>>

>> There are other riks in Rigveda that were revealed to the world by

> female

>> rishis. We use those riks in our worship, meditation, homas and

> other

>> sadhanas. Yet, should we insist that women cannot recite Veda? If

>> Vagambhrani is amid us again as a woman, should we stop her from

> reciting

>> Devi sooktam?

>>

>> * * *

>>

>> Jnaneshwar (or Jnanadev) was a great saint from Maharashtra from

> about 800

>> years back. He was a great devotee of Krishna and was a fully self-

> realized

>> master at a young age. He reformed religion and corrected some

> corrupt

>> traditions. He once made a buffalo chant Veda.

>>

>> He started to recite Veda and the head of the Brahmin council

> forbade him

>> because he was not " qualified " to recite Veda. Jnaneshwar insisted

> that

>> everyone had a right to recite Veda and the head of the council

> disagreed.

>> As he started reciting Veda, the Brahmins tried to stop him by

> closing his

>> mouth. Then a buffalo standing next to him took over and chanted

> Veda.

>> Astounded by the miracle, the Brahmins fell at his feet. The head

> apologized

>> and said, " we are masquerading as the keepers of Veda, but you have

> the real

>> understanding and mastery of Veda " .

>>

>> Jnaneshwar taught the equality of all and did not distinguish

> between people

>> based on caste, creed or gender. He considered BhagavadGita as the

> essence

>> of Veda and wrote a fantastic commentary on it. His commentary

> departs from

>> the standard Dwaitic (dualistic) point of view adopted by most

> Vaishnava

>> gurus and uses a purely Adwaitic (non-dualistic) point of view. It

> is a

>> priceless and timeless masterpiece.

>>

>> * * *

>>

>> One Swamiji who was at my house last month had an interesting take.

> He said

>> that the belief that women cannot recite Vedas is based on a

>> misinterpretation. He said that the physical body we have is called

> the

>> " stree sareera " and the inner body we have is called the " purusha

> sareera " .

>> He said that the physical body comes from mother and the soul comes

> from

>> father and that is why they are called so. The soul or inner self

> is the

>> thousand-headed purusha within us (described in purusha sooktam).

>>

>> He said that Veda is supposed to be recited with the purusha

> sareera.

>> According to him, it does not mean that women cannot read it.

> Whether men or

>> women, they have to read it with the purusha sareera, i.e. inner

> body, and

>> not just with the physical body. So, according to him, the standard

>> convention is based on a flawed understanding. According to him,

> one simply

>> reciting Veda with the mouth without the correct internal

> understanding is

>> only reading with the " stree sareera " and hence not doing the right

> thing.

>>

>> * * *

>>

>> In fact, reciting Veda and chanting the verses is one thing and

>> understanding them is quite another. When we make sound, there are

> four

>> levels of it - vaikhari, madhyama, pasyanti and para. Vibration of

> material

>> belonging to the gross body (sthoola sareera) produces vaikhari

> level of

>> sound and it is heard through the senses belonging to the gross

> body (ears).

>> But vibrations at the level of subtle body (sookshma sareera) and

> vibrations

>> at the level of astral body (kaarana sareera) are also there and

> can be

>> perceived thorough subtle perception.

>>

>> If one is chanting " Om Namo Narayanaya " and thinking of some

> mundane

>> matters, the vibrations produced at levels above vaikhari will not

> be

>> auspicious. There is so much stress on what we do physically and

> people

>> forget that what happens at the other layers of existence is

> equally, if not

>> more, important!

>>

>> If you produce the correct vibrations at all levels (not just

> physical)

>> while " reciting " any Vedic mantra, you can truly " experience " the

> mantra. A

>> full experience of a single Vedic mantra may be sufficient to alter

> one's

>> life! The mantras of Veda are most powerful. Unfortunately, so much

> of Vedic

>> scholarship these days is only superficial (but it has to be

> encouraged,

>> because it will keep atleast one level of knowledge alive).

>>

>> Forget the man vs woman controversy. The difference between genders

> is only

>> in the gross body. When you go to the subtle body and astral body,

> there is

>> no difference at all. One should realize that the role of gross

> body is too

>> limited in the correct recitation/experience of a Vedic mantra. It

> is the

>> purity of the subtle body and the lightness of the astral body that

> are far

>> more important.

>>

>> * * *

>>

>> To be fair and balanced, I need to throw light on the other angle.

> Like I

>> said, Vedic mantras are too powerful. They are capable of producing

> a full

>> self-realization (actually the sole purpose of Veda is " to know

> self " ).

>> However, given the depth of Kali Yuga, it is difficult for it to

> come in one

>> shot. It comes in steps. When one is half way down the path, one

> has to be

>> careful and under the vigilant guidance of a sadguru.

>>

>> When one is not fully realized and the gross body has a role to

> play, there

>> are some differences based on the gender that come into play.

>>

>> If a lady carrying a baby in her womb has certain spiritual

> experiences

>> (which a good Vedic chanting is capable of bringing), there can

> even be an

>> abortion (or a great siddha being born, on the other extreme).

>>

>> There is another subtle factor. Good Vedic chanting can bring an

> awakening

>> of Kundalini (i.e. an awakening of self-awareness) and an ascent of

>> Kundalini (i.e. an ascent of self-awareness). Though some people

> may have a

>> wrong impression about Kundalini because of the corrupt practices

> of a

>> section of so-called " Kundalini sadhakas " , the fact is that

> Kundalini merely

>> represents one's ego-consciousness. When one casually associates

> the body

>> one sees with " self " , Kundalini is asleep in the Mooladhara chakra.

> As one's

>> self-awareness becomes more and more refined, Kundalini ascends in

> the

>> sookshma sareera. As one has a perfect self-realization, Kundalini

> reaches

>> Sahasrara. Whether one thinks in these terms or not, Kundalini

> moves based

>> on how evolved one is. Whether one is into Bhakti yoga or Raja yoga

> or Karma

>> yoga or Jnana yoga does not matter. All paths lead to an awareness

> of a more

>> and more correct concept of self as time progresses and a full

>> self-realization finally. Accordingly, Kundalini rises more and

> more and

>> reaches Sahasrara at the end.

>>

>> During the period when Kundalini is stuck in Swadhishthana chakra,

> sexual

>> drive can multiply. Several yogis get stuck in this stage and fail

> the tests

>> to progress further. In general, women have a higher drive than

> men. If that

>> drive multiplies, there can be a difficult situation. However, it

> really

>> depends on the individual and we cannot generalize.

>>

>> Thus, there are some practical difficulties on the way, which may

> have made

>> some people come up with some rules. However, are those issues

> sufficient to

>> ban women from reciting Veda? I don't think so. In fact, the

> factors I wrote

>> above are probably irrelevant given the superficial understanding

> of Veda

>> present at this time and the superficial recitation of Veda that we

> find

>> these days.

>>

>> But, if you want to be sure and do not want to misguide anyone, it

> is better

>> to not give any advice. Leave it to one's sadguru. If you have a

> sadguru who

>> is guiding your spiritual sadhana, surrender and do as your guru

> says! What

>> is good for goose may not be good for gander. What goose's guru

> taught to

>> goose may be good only for goose and not for gander. Gander will do

> well to

>> follow gander's guru.

>>

>> I think I rambled enough for today... :-)

>>

>> Best regards,

>> Narasimha

>> -------------------------------

>> Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

>> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

>> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

>> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>> -------------------------------

>>

>> -

>> " rohinipurang " <rohinipurang

>>

>> Saturday, February 24, 2007 12:18 PM

>> reading/learning the veda

>>

>>

>> >A warm namaste to everyone!

>> >

>> > I have heard it said that women are not allowed to

> read/know/recite the

>> > vedas. Can anyone tell me if this is true? If so, is there any

> mantra

>> > (or evidence)in any of the Vedas which says this?

>> >

>> > I ask this not as a disrespectful argument but as a genuine

> desire to

>> > know what the text actually says, if it does indeed say anything

> at all

>> > on the subject.

>> >

>> > Also I have heard that a Brahmin who does have the right to

> recite/use

>> > the mantras has to follow a certain (very strict) way of life. Is

> this

>> > too mentioned in any of these 'books' (for want of a better word)?

>> >

>> > Regards

>> >

>> > Rohini

>|| Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

>

>