Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Namaste, A friend who joined this group told me- we spend too much time doing hair splitting analysis. After all, God cant be known through analysis! God can only be known through Sadhna/bhakti, so what is the need for discussing small points? Arent we supposed to reach a state Zen calls " No Mind " ? How is this helped by debating endles complexities like scholars? Or is this an Indian problem- most Indians are scholars rather than do-ers? Which is why India was easily enslaved- as while others were acting in the world(by invading us), we were sitting there discussing if the world is Maya! What is your opinion? love, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 dear sir, truth can be known through analisys also and as god is truth god can be known by analisys also. once all falsehood if eliminated truth shall stand out from error. so let ppl talk as time passes and they gain wisdom they will know god-truth. i am an electronics engineer by profession and started out asking question and found out truth from ved,etc,and accepted it. i dont say my is the only correct path,but i say let all find their own path.truth never hides and so shall be known. let ppl know truth though science,phylosophy or combination of both like i do. om shakti gopal On 5/20/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > A friend who joined this group told me- we spend too much time doing hair > splitting analysis. After all, God cant be known through analysis! > > God can only be known through Sadhna/bhakti, so what is the need for > discussing small points? Arent we supposed to reach a state Zen calls " No > Mind " ? How is this helped by debating endles complexities like scholars? > > Or is this an Indian problem- most Indians are scholars rather than do-ers? > Which is why India was easily enslaved- as while others were acting in the > world(by invading us), we were sitting there discussing if the world is > Maya! > > What is your opinion? > > love, > S > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > Namaste, > > A friend who joined this group told me- we spend too much time doing hair splitting analysis. After all, God cant be known through analysis! >Dear shantnu, your point is valid...but discussing is not a harm. Discussion is bad if it becomes " I am right & you are wrong " type arguments. There are many things which i learnt here through discussions, and there are many sadhka here who learnt new things. If we strictly go by " No Mind " thing we need not have this group even. Moreover " No Mind " idea is not the only one which leads to truth. Tantra encourages understanding the working of Shakti and getting out of her matrix, after knowing her workings. aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 ji, we are in sadhana group which the name itself indicates the reason for it. Thanks for aumji for it. I dont think if everybody stop emailing and attaining " zen " without any communication. Then any need of this group. The intellect has never reached to zen, and never will in future too, since its birth is from the pure ego only.and the pure ego is always above the intellect. I my opinion nobody can force, his own opinion on others, but since its group , discussion must go on. everybody is unique and have a different point of view, to this world as well as that world. break the discussion , and close the group, similarly. As aumji rightly said, some gain information out of the discussions, some share there experince( I rarely seen it, though) . Those who have studid must put there information in the group, so that other who dont know can gain from it. no body in the world owns thoughts, since they are part of material world, and everything in the material world is recycled.They are just transfer of energy. --- On Wed, 20/5/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > Too much analysis? Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 12:52 PM Namaste, A friend who joined this group told me- we spend too much time doing hair splitting analysis. After all, God cant be known through analysis! Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 nothing wrong with analisys or talks. GADHE SE GADHA MILE TO HOVE DO DO LAAT GYANI SE GYANI MILE TO HOVE DO DO BAAT so we have to decide that we r interetsed in gyan. om shakti gopal On 5/20/09, udaykumar S.K. <udaykumar001 wrote: > > > > ji, > > we are in sadhana group which the name itself indicates the reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 , aumji <no_reply wrote: >truth. Tantra encourages understanding the working of Shakti and >getting out of her matrix, after knowing her workings. aumji, are we then enslaved by Shakti, that we have to escape from her matrix? Also, what is the difference between the Zens " No mind " approach, & Tantras approach? luv, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 , " udaykumar S.K. " <udaykumar001 > The intellect has never reached to zen, and never will in future too, >since its birth is from the pure ego only.and the pure ego is always >above the intellect. So Udayji, we can never reach God through intellect- so is intellect useless? luv, s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 there is no escaping from shakti. bcoz she is the matter and the energy. the void - salvation is also her,bcoz void is also filled with energy. all is shakti.she is giver of bhog and moksha. dharma artha kaam moksha is her gift to us. even soul is energy.so she is all that exists. she is he and she both. om shakti gopal On 5/20/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: > aumji, are we then enslaved by Shakti, that we have to escape from her > matrix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 ji, the meaning is the supreme god can not be reached through intellect, definitely never. The roll of intellect is to analyse , decide, doubt, affirm , Till a person uses intellect to understand the supreme power, there is always duality, because intellect also produces doubt as everything. Intellect has definately high value in material world, It becomes assets for the material world. But its entirely useless while entering into spiritual world, supreme level of god, the purna, Nirvana. The bliss of pure ego can not be descibed by using intellect, as well as through intellect one can not experince the bliss. Intellect is knowledge and bliss is experince. Thats the defference. One may express the thorough knowldege doesnt mean that he has experienced it. One might give lot of examples of shastras, vedas, etc but the truth can be correctly expressed by the experinced one only.those words may be simple yet true. Intellect can guide person till a certain limit , which is foundation for spirituality. Further use of intellect is manifestation of illusion.. --- On Wed, 20/5/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > Re: Too much analysis? Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 5:57 PM @ s.com, " udaykumar S.K. " <udaykumar001@ ...> > The intellect has never reached to zen, and never will in future too, >since its birth is from the pure ego only.and the pure ego is always >above the intellect. So Udayji, we can never reach God through intellect- so is intellect useless? luv, s Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Dear shanji and everyone, For me,I have no guru. To me the information i get here is useful to me. sometimes, i don't get the point, but while experiening, i get to realise what you all said. To me, I belive guru as god itself and when i ask a question, it is been answered. If not answered, i wait for the answer and sure i get the answer. " Deivam manisha rupena " , this is also one way i get answer, through you all, through this sadhana group. Sarvamaatha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 truth=god=nature=intellect. if we remove all impossibilitie sonly truth remains and thus we can embrace truth=god. god has given us intellect to know him,and it may take many life times to reach but he loves us so guides us all through. nature is god is truth is SCIENTIFICALLY AND INTELECTUALLY provable,so we can attain god by gyan,bhakti,mantra,yoga and combination of both also. god is infinite and so r the method to realise god who is in us. om shakti gopal On 5/20/09, udaykumar S.K. <udaykumar001 wrote: > the meaning is the supreme god can not be reached through intellect, > definitely never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 , sarvamaatha <no_reply wrote: > > For me,I have no guru. To me the information i get here is useful to Thanks Sarvamaathaji, thats a lovely answer! love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 , " udaykumar S.K. " <udaykumar001 wrote: > Intellect has definately high value in material world, It becomes >assets for the material world. But its entirely useless while entering >into spiritual world, supreme level of god, the purna, Nirvana. Udayji & others, surely intellect must have some use in spiritual sadhna, if God gave it to us? luv, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 opinion on this, if god has given intellect why it it not same for everyone? Intellect is part of mayic manifestation and therefore is different for every body. The only truth is the world is " pure ego " (the semi liberation stage) and pure ego doesnt understands what is intellect.The pure ego is universal within every living body and It only knows the happiness, bliss of a newborn child. with a newborn child you can not make long and scholeric discussions regarding brahman, atma, jivatma and parmatma. The definitions, clarifications make no effect the newborn child. Its happy always, when the primary needs are satisfied.Its not impressed by the tons of gold, but that the love of mother. The pure ego is nothing but a newborn baby of the supreme power and its sheer, sheer, sheer bliss , its only " am " , and nothing else. How can you understand a baby by intelligence? Try to analyse by using the whole intellect in world, and find the difference after being the baby itself. to understand a newborn baby you have to become a newborn baby.Its not possible by intellect. Gad has given us intellect to deal with the material world. Its material power to deal with material world. The intellect can be a tool to perform material activities so that they are usefull for sadhna. Like reading books and taking out of it, what exactly is required. Finding guru(primarily), understanding the methods of sadhana, controlling the schedule etc etc.,checking mind activities (though intellect if generator of thoughts) The use of intellect is limited upto this level. There are many intelligent scholors are found on earth who can impress people by describing about brahman , though they are not reached even at the first step of it, on the other hande many saint who could not read even have liberated/ realised self. Intellect is usefull tool but it has its limits. Even Krishna also said the same in Gita. That the pure ego " atma " can not understod by super intellects, nor it can described by vedas. All the vedas , upanishads fail to describe it properly, because the pure ego is only a matter of experince, and beyond the description. or understood by intellect. --- On Thu, 21/5/09, gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 wrote: gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 Re: Re: Too much analysis? Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 11:32 AM truth=god=nature= intellect. if we remove all impossibilitie sonly truth remains and thus we can embrace truth=god. god has given us intellect to know him,and it may take many life times to reach but he loves us so guides us all through. essages in this topic (13) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Polls | Calendar Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un Recent Activity 2 New Members 3 New Files Visit Your Group Give Back for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to http://in.business./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 intellect is useful for spiritual pourpose also. will u worship raam or ravan ?? will u worship mahalaxmi or mahisasur ?? will u worship krishna or kansa ?? will u worship lord maharudra or tripurasur ?? so for spiritual pourpose also intellect is necessary,bcoz it is god's gift to us for us to sift truth from falsehood. our ultimate goal is self realialisaion = union with the divine lord parambrmaparatma adi shakti. yr path may differ from others but our goal is same. om shakti gopal On 5/21/09, udaykumar S.K. <udaykumar001 wrote: > > > > opinion on this, > > if god has given intellect why it it not same for everyone? > Intellect is part of mayic manifestation and therefore is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Ji, Intellect is definately required to chose between Rama and ravana, between Mahalaxmi and Mahishasura ,Between Krishna and Kansa, Between Maharudra and Narakasura, Intellect decides what to do and what to not, based on the chitta sanskaras of the person. If the Impressions are dark, his intellect will lead him to Ravana, Mahishasura, Kansa, Kaurava, Narakasura, Hitler and so on. The destructive forces. The distruction is against the pure ego nature, the blissfullness. Hence the intellect will be helping to distruction. When the intellect is used to analyse the worthiness of the material world, it finds every reason, how to make the world beautiful, how it will be usefull, and creative.That the pure egos nature to be creative. Thats why any new creation make the person happy and blissful. So intellect can be used for destruction as well as construction. Now since the supreme god is formless, omnipresent, everlasting and beyond three gunas, Nrgun means he has no any specific quality execpt supreme power, how one can reach there by using the intellect. The intellect very very limited while it tries to analyse the supreme formlessgod. When Godess durga says, I am within all, she means the supreme power only. Similarly Krishna says " Sarva Deva Namaskara Keshavam Pratigatchchati., " it also means supreme power only.Here both the keshav and durga are same.Ganapati Atharvashirsha say " Tvamev pratyaksham Tatvamasi " means O Ganapati ,you are the only principle within everything. Even in Patanjali sutras, Patanjali says Pranidhanaam, means witness, its not analysis. A witness can not be analyser of certain things. he is just a witness. If he starts analysing he is no more witness. And to get to the pure ego level, a being a witness is must. A witness can only be different from the mayic manifestation and the witness is the observer, the pure ego. Intellect is duality and duality never penetrate through the bliss. Intelect has rise and fall, sharpening and decaying, hence is not stable.Therefore it has material qualities. Its truly material. To meet the pure ego, one has to become child of supreme god, and that the ony way, either by dancing, by chanting, by meditating, or by any thing, --- On Thu, 21/5/09, gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 wrote: gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 Re: Re: Too much analysis? Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 3:11 PM intellect is useful for spiritual pourpose also. will u worship raam or ravan ?? will u worship mahalaxmi or mahisasur ?? will u worship krishna or kansa ?? will u worship lord maharudra or tripurasur ?? so for spiritual pourpose also intellect is necessary,bcoz it is god's gift to us for us to sift truth from falsehood. our ultimate goal is self realialisaion = union with the divine lord parambrmaparatma adi shakti. yr path may differ from others but our goal is same. om shakti gopal On 5/21/09, udaykumar S.K. <udaykumar001@ > wrote: > > > > opinion on this, > > if god has given intellect why it it not same for everyone? > Intellect is part of mayic manifestation and therefore is Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 dear friend, i agree fully. all is part of divinity. gopal On 5/21/09, udaykumar S.K. <udaykumar001 wrote: > Ji, > > Intellect is definately required to chose between Rama and ravana, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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