Guest guest Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Namaste, Why was this world created? What purpose does it serve? If God really is perfect, why would He/She need to create the world? If, as they say, God had a desire to create the World, that means god isnt perfect, as a perfect being would have no desires? luv, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 OMNAMONARAYANAYA Venerable Shantnuji God has the attributes of Omniscience,Omnipresence and Omnipotent. If GOD alone exists and nothing else exists God`s attributes become unused . To put them to use God created everything else from HIS own self. Our purpose is only to pray and praise the LORD till HE hugs us into HIMSELF May other seniors enlighten me ! ijswamy ~SWAMY http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/ --- On Wed, 4/22/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > What is the purpose of this world? Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 5:42 AM Namaste, Why was this world created? What purpose does it serve? If God really is perfect, why would He/She need to create the world? If, as they say, God had a desire to create the World, that means god isnt perfect, as a perfect being would have no desires? luv, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 > > Why was this world created? What purpose does it serve? > > If God really is perfect, why would He/She need to create the world? > > If, as they say, God had a desire to create the World, that means god isnt perfect, as a perfect being would have no desires? --------------------- HARE RAM, HARE KRISHAN This world was not created, it is the Part of the God who has no begining and no end. The purpose of this world is to make the God perfect. God has desire to fullfill our desires, that makes Him COMPLETE HARE RAM,HARE RAM , RAM RAM,HARE HARE, HARE KRISHAN, HARE KRISHAN, KRISHAN KRISHAN,HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Namaste Sri Shantnu I think these questions are not answered with the help of created tools like mind and intellect. You have asked questions starting with 'Why " . You see science answers only questions starting with " How " but cannot answer those with ' Why " . The reason is pretty clear. First one needs to know 'What' , then " How " . " What " - nature of creation " How " - Possible sequence of creation I think once these questions are answered, we will know the nature of creation including that of mind ,intellect and 'swayam' (the ego). Once we gain knowledge about these we also will know how to transcend them. There , possibly the 'why' could be answered. Another 'advaitic' answer could be that creation exists as a thought only. Associating with the thought itself is bondage. So, come out of all thoughts , when only the ' self' will remain. But all are the 'pundit's' point of view. We have a Tamil proverb- " Kandavar Vindilar, Vindavar Kandilar " . ( Who have seen were unable to express. Who have expressed, have not seen " .) I remember a book title " Believing is seeing " . For all of us rational beings, who are fed with the dictum " Seeing is believing " this is a shocking take. But in spiritual domain, belief matters. Venkat , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > Namaste, > > Why was this world created? What purpose does it serve? > > If God really is perfect, why would He/She need to create the world? > > If, as they say, God had a desire to create the World, that means god isnt perfect, as a perfect being would have no desires? > > luv, > Shantnu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 , " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja wrote: > > This world was not created, it is the Part of the God who has no >begining and no end. Thanks Jitendarji, Venkatji, Swamiji, gopalji & Alexji. If God is everywhere & everything, then God is like some invisible Ether(which scientists in the 19th century believed in), that supposedly explains everything, but is useless from a practical point of view. How is such a god useful to me? And nobody has answered my other question- if God is so perfect, why did he have to become the world? Why does He/She do anything? A perfect being would desire nothing, so would do nothing. The only philosophy that makes sense is Shankara's Mayawad- that everything is an illusion, Maya, nothing exists, even God is an illusion. Is this true then? Please enlighten me. love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 , mulberry300 <mulberry300 wrote: > > Hi Shantnu, > > You ask very good questions indeed. > What I wonder about is if God is good, how can he/she allow even one >single child to be sexual misabused? Alexji, we are perhaps too fast to blame God for our troubles. If all souls/beings are free, then they are responsible for choosing their own Karma, including their own abuse. Why blame some far away god, who might not even exist? While some abused become abusers, others fight their fate to become great teachers, insirations to others. Examples like Loiuse hay, Dawn Callan come to mind. Some advanced souls may delibrately choose a life of misery(I am laughing as I write this, but Aumji comes to mind), so they can make faster spiritual progress. Like the amatuer climber is happy climbing a small hill, a professional will only want Mount Everest. Climbing Everest is a lot harder than climbing your local hill, but it is also more rewarding. It is hard to say if a person is suffering because he has bad karma, or because his soul has chosen to make several lifes progress in one life. Regardless, this is our own free will, & God rarely interferes. with love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 > If God is everywhere & everything, then God is like some invisible Ether(which scientists in the 19th century believed in), that supposedly explains everything, but is useless from a practical point of view. How is such a god useful to me? ------------------------------- HARE RAM, HARE KRISHAN God is useful to me, as He has a provision to feel yourself as God or as Yourself. He is visible as well as invisible . He may be visible for me and may be invisible for others, Hence He is everywhere & everything. --------------------- > And nobody has answered my other question- if God is so perfect, why did he have to become the world? Why does He/She do anything? A perfect being would desire nothing, so would do nothing. The only philosophy that makes sense is Shankara's Mayawad- that everything is an illusion, Maya, nothing exists, even God is an illusion. > ------------------------ World is within and outside the God Himself. He does something to maintain the world, a integrated part within Him, to fullfill the desires of the childrens for maintaining His identity as Perfect being. Maya is not everything but ONLY a BEAUTIFULL CREATION of the God. HARE RAM, HARE RAM, RAM RAM, HARE HARE, HARE KRISHAN, HARE KRISHAN, KRISHAN KRISHAN, HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 god is useful and useless.depends on yr point of view. god never says worship me or i put u in hell. god says watch yr karma [ most important ]. if u worship him its ok,if u dont also ok. but karma is most important. if u r spiritual and develop that side its good,if u dont god does not force u into it. om shakti gopal > > If God is everywhere & everything, then God is like some invisible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 , " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja wrote: >identity as Perfect being. Maya is not everything but ONLY a >BEAUTIFULL CREATION of the God. Thanks Jitendarji. How would you define Maya? the normal defintion is illusion- do you agree with that? luv, shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 maya is just part of nature=god. when we realise we r part of the divine truth=god then the false maya is eliminated and we r liberated from the illusion of dwaity-dualism and enter the truth of advaith=monism. om shakti gopal On 4/23/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: > How would you define Maya? the normal defintion is illusion- do you agree > with that? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 , gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 > if u worship him its ok,if u dont also ok. > > but karma is most important. So Gopalji, what should a Sadhak focus on- doing his Karma, or worshipping God? If Karma is supreme, then worshipping God is a waste of time, while if god is supreme, there is no need to waste time doing Karma. This seems like a catch 22 situation. Pls enlighten us further. luv, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 we r part of the divine,there is no karma better than worshipping god. why ? bcoz when we do that all our sense r immersed into worshipping divine and away from hurting others. this it is a good karma. rest is yr choice,the true god=nature does not force u to worship,if u do ok,if not also ok,but do good karma. that is bottom line. om shakti gopal On 4/23/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: > <%40>, gopal > So Gopalji, what should a Sadhak focus on- doing his Karma, or worshipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Dear Shantanuji, You have flared up an age-old quest in such a simple question and provoked thoughtful insight into it. I see a lot of replies and discussions. I kind of like to reflect back on Gopalji's points here. Your last question was related to Worship vs. Karma. A Saadhaka's true Saadhana is what Rishi's, Muni's and Yogis portray. i.e. they go to the far extreme of bakthi to renounce all aspects of worldly life. But people like us are not 100% Saadhakas in its essence. We are living a worldly life and trying to engage in saadhana simultaneously. In fact this is definitely a giant leap in our spiritual progress. We must be thankful to our Karma and God for that. As a " True " Saadhana is not possible by us, the next best and only possibility is 'Karma', doing our duty without attachment and expecting the fruit of its results. Along with performing our duty in righteous manner, engaging in Saadhana is a fast propulsion towards self-realization. But then further questions start pouring in: " What is our goal? What are we trying to achieve by reaching self-realization? " Are we trying to become like Buddha through enlightenment? If we have such expectations, then we will never achieve nirvaanaa. A true saadhaka does not doubt the presence of God even a bit. A true saadhaka does not test God under any circumstance. A true saadhaka does not need discussions, debates, and discourses. All these are characteristics of people who are like cat on the wall. People like us :-) So, for people in worldly materialistic life, Karma yoga is the better path. Even best is engaging in saadhana along with karma yoga. At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan To receive the Light of Supreme Power visit http://www.sakthiolhi.org --- On Thu, 4/23/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > Re: What is the purpose of this world? Thursday, April 23, 2009, 8:18 AM @ s.com, gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123@ ...> > if u worship him its ok,if u dont also ok. > > but karma is most important. So Gopalji, what should a Sadhak focus on- doing his Karma, or worshipping God? If Karma is supreme, then worshipping God is a waste of time, while if god is supreme, there is no need to waste time doing Karma. This seems like a catch 22 situation. Pls enlighten us further. luv, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 > > How would you define Maya? the normal defintion is illusion- do you agree with that? ------------- HARE RAM, HARE KRISHAN THANKS SIR JI AND TO ALL SHADHAKA FOR UPGRADING OURSLEVES There could be so many definitions of Maya as it depends upon how a person perceive Maya. in my opinion, Maya is an identity who always drag us into the confusion. we perceive things true which are false ie illusion. HARE RAM, HARE RAM,RAM RAM,HARE HARE, HARE KRISHAN, HARE KRISHAN, KRISHAN KRISHAN, HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 > On 4/23/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: dear shanracer, now you are on the right track. There is no God and if there is one, he must be an unjust, unreliable and cruel king who loves to play with those who believe in him our karmas are mainly responsible for our plight no one else. There is no god, no fate, no gods regards vishnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 , Shakti Thondan <sakthithondan wrote: > > Dear Shantanuji, > You have flared up an age-old quest in such a simple question >and provoked thoughtful insight into it. I see a lot of replies and >Your last question was related to Worship vs. Karma. A Saadhaka's >true Saadhana is what Rishi's, Muni's and Yogis portray. i.e. they >go to the far extreme of bakthi to renounce all aspects of worldly Thanks Shaktiji. Yes, the reason I wanted some debate was, people become too entrenched in their own views, they never bother to challenge their underlying assumptions. They repeat like parrots what they have read/heard, & never try to experience what they are talking about. This has become more prevalent nowdays, when there are more Gurus than students. Thats why aumji started this group- so we could discuss in detail what other people take for granted. There is a story about Buddha I have written before. Once Buddha went to a village, & he was invited for breakfast. The man living there was very devout, & said " Of course you believe in God " . Buddha said " God! Never heard such nonsense in my life. There is no God, only emptyness " . The man was shocked, & Buddhas student was also surprised at his Gurus rudeness. For lunch, they went to another house. There, the person was an atheist. he said " All this God stuff is lies. Why do people believe in it? " Buddha replied " Of course God exists, you idiot. I have seen him with my own eyes " . Again the student was surprised, & tried to question his guru, but Buddha forbade him. For dinner, they went to a 3rd house. The host there said " I dont know if God exists or not. " Buddha said " Dont worry, enjoy life, party, get a girlfriend, dont waste time in all this religious stuff " That night when they were sleeping, the student couldnt keep quiet anymore. He said " Master, I am confused. Tell me the truth- do you believe in God or not? In morning you didnt, in lunch you did, & at dinner you became a hedonist?! I dont understand " . Buddha replied " 1st thing is, those answers werent meant for you- why were you listening? But since you were, let me tell you. The 1st person had a blind faith in God- he was just sitting there expecting God to save him. I broke his blind confidence, & now he will search for the truth. The 2nd person had a blind faith against God, & I broke that too. Both of them will now look more carefully for the Truth, instead of just repeating what their parents/Guru told them. The 3rd person wasnt yet ready for Yoga, so I told him to enjoy life " . In an ironical twist, most Buddhists repeat the 1st part of the story to show Buddha didnt believe in God! It just shows how far modern Buddhists are from Buddhas teachings. But are we Hindus any better? Most of our Rishis were married, led normal lives, some of them were warriors like Parshuram & killed many. Others were teachers, who taught kings how to rule, fix taxes, survive enemies, plant crops etc. They led normal lives, yet at the same time they were enlightened. The thinking that you have to renounce everything is fairly new, but most people accept it without thinking. On the battle field, Krishna didnt say renounce everything & become my bhakta! No, he said, fight & kill everyone here. Doing your Karma without complaining is one of the best form of Bhakti to God. If like Yogananda or Vivekanada, your Karma is to preach about Yoga while remaining Brahmchari, thats good. But to think that everyone has to follow this path- thats the mistake in modern thinking. As Krishna says " Better to follow your own dharma, even if inferior, than to follow anothers Dharma " . luv, S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi there, We cannot deny the existence of god. We all are the part of him and the question may arise that why he created the world, what came into his mind, why he created living beings, why he created joy peace and how he is controlling everything. I also believe the philosophy of great philosopher adi shankaracharaya that the whole world is maya and the only real thing is brahman and we are the part of brahman which is unchanging, infinite which is the source of light. Even in few hindu sculptures and many other philosophers has suggested it as the ultimate source and we all are the origins of the same which is shapeless which is as bright as the light of millions of suns. However it is difficult to define the ultimate source but we all are originated from that source and will become the part of that source. Also if we are the part of that powerful and ultimate source then we should also have the same powers and the answer is yes but we just need to enlightned it. Recently I read a book named secret in which they have given a statement that 'we are Gods manifested in human form' Regards, Amit Arora Sent from BlackBerry® kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply > > On 4/23/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: dear shanracer, now you are on the right track. There is no God and if there is one, he must be an unjust, unreliable and cruel king who Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 dear friend, pls go to pakistan or saudi arabia and say what u said on this forum. surely u will know after they remove yr soul from yr body very gently with help of ak47 u will know if god exists or not. om shakti gopal On 4/24/09, kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply > wrote: > dear shanracer, now you are on the right track. There is no God and if > there is one, he must be an unjust, unreliable and cruel king who Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 i request u to pls read sri dei atharvasheesh from atharvaved. u will understand all clearly. the controvesy over maya will be solved forever. om shakti gopal On 4/24/09, catchamityonline <catchamityonline wrote: > Hi there, > > We cannot deny the existence of god. We all are the part of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 All good stuff. Shantanuji. Let's keep this discussion going.It fosters and facilitates our knowledge i.e. simultaneously progressing in Jnana Yoga. At Mother's Lotus Feet, Shakti Thondan To receive the Light of Supreme Power visit http://www.sakthiolhi.org --- On Fri, 4/24/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Can you put some light if you have already read? As your brief explanation will be helpful to all members Amit Sent from BlackBerry® gopal narayan <gopalnarayan123 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:41:23 Re: Re: What is the purpose of this world? i request u to pls read sri dei atharvasheesh from atharvaved. u will understand all clearly. the controvesy over maya will be solved forever. om shakti gopal On 4/24/09, catchamityonline <catchamityonline wrote: > Hi there, > > We cannot deny the existence of god. We all are the part of him --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Namaste all. This nice story also tells us there are 'four' kinds of 'students' of Buddha. The surrendered student (must be Ananda) perfected his sadhana and enjoying Divine association and loving service of his Beloved Lord apart from the other 'three'. Sant Tulasidas ji said in Sri Rama Carita Manas : nara tanu sama nahi kavanu hu eihe jeeva charaachar yaachata jeihe ...... naraka swarga apavarga bhakti deienhe .............. There is no fortune equal to having a human birth! Why? The seeker can receive the " four kinds of reward " from his sadhana and by the way of his living in this world. Human beings can elevate themselves to the highest state or degrade to the lowest. while it is not possible in other births. So Tulasidas enumerates those 'four rewards'- (1) Hell for cruel and wicked men, (2) heaven for the good and virtuous, (3) liberation for the holy and wise and (4) Divine love Bliss for the surrendered devotees. Jaya Sri Radhe!--- In , shanracer <no_reply wrote: Buddha replied " 1st thing is, 'those answers weren't meant for you'- why were you listening? " But since you were, let me tell you. The 1st person had a blind faith in God- he was just sitting there expecting God to save him. I broke his blind confidence, & now he will search for the truth. The 2nd person had a blind faith against God, & I broke that too. Both of them will now look more carefully for the Truth, instead of just repeating what their parents/Guru told them. The 3rd person wasnt yet ready for Yoga, so I told him to enjoy life " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 , catchamityonline wrote: > > Hi there, > > We cannot deny the existence of god. We all are the part of him and >the question may arise that why he created the world, what came Hi there, If God exists and if we are his children then SHOULDN'T GOD BE SUED FOR CHILD ABUSE ???????? And no one replied the 2nd part why god created the world ??? love all vishnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 , kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply wrote: > > If God exists and if we are his children then SHOULDN'T GOD BE SUED >FOR CHILD ABUSE ???????? LOL Vishnuji, its nice you are bringing some humor to the group. > And no one replied the 2nd part why god created the world ??? Thats true, our discussion has remained unfinished. If God is perfect, why would He/She create/become the world? love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 OMNAMONARAYANAYA Oh ! Kaliyug vishnuji If a court exists in heaven we will sue God . Methinks God Himself is the perfect Judge of all . And Shantnuji , Why that PERFECT GOD created the universe and all of us.? Because ---- Perfection of God can not be understood or realized unless imperfection exists somewhere. We are created for everyone to understand what imperfection is. ijswamy ~SWAMY http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/ --- On Tue, 4/28/09, shanracer <no_reply > wrote: shanracer <no_reply > Re: What is the purpose of this world? Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 3:39 AM @ s.com, kalyugivishnu5 <no_reply@.. .> wrote: > > If God exists and if we are his children then SHOULDN'T GOD BE SUED >FOR CHILD ABUSE ???????? LOL Vishnuji, its nice you are bringing some humor to the group. > And no one replied the 2nd part why god created the world ??? Thats true, our discussion has remained unfinished. If God is perfect, why would He/She create/become the world? love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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