Guest guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Namaste, In our recent discussion about astrology, several Sadhaks said we should surrender to God. But animals are also surrendered to God- they eat, kill, procreate, as their nature(under control of God) orders them to. Thats why they are free of Karma. Krishna says " Give up all your Karma to me " . But animals do that already - after all, lion doesnt get bad karma for eating deer. So is the whole goal of Sadhna to become just like an animal? with luv, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Shantnu, nice question. Here's my 2C. The point of giving up the Karmas (actions) is so that we don't develop any vasanas (attachments). The object of prayer/mantras etc is to give up our identification with our body and mind. Every thought we have leaves a streak in our minds. If those thoughts are repeated constantly (money, money, money or food, food, food) they develop into vasanas. A perfect Karma yogi knows that everything we do is for God. Hence s/he does not get attached to anything. Intense Bhakti has the same impact, all the vasanas get burnt up. Our only attachment is to God - food, money etc has no value. The stage where the ego (little 'I') disappears is the start of realization. An animal is by its nature attached to actions. It feeds when hungry, and runs when scared. They don't gain any additional Karmas however, since there is no higher function that chooses their actions. Only the Human being can burn up all its vasanas, by giving up all attachments. I might be confusing terms, so do forgive any mistakes in terminology. Rgds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 , satishvijayan <no_reply wrote: > > An animal is by its nature attached to actions. It feeds when hungry, >and runs when scared. They don't gain any additional Karmas however, >since there is no higher function that chooses their actions. Only the >Human being can burn up all its vasanas, by giving up all attachments. Thanks Satishji. but dont animals follow their instincts, which are programmed by nature. So how can they be attached to its actions, when they performs none? They merely follows their instict? with love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Speaking as a fairly illiterate person: I think Vasanas when they are deeply rooted can be called instints. They say these vasanas exist in the 'potential' form within Brahman after the Pralaya. After the universe is started up again, these vasanas unfold through various Jivas. As beings evolve - Minerals, plant, then animal, then human. The point of multiple lower life forms seems to be for the vasanas to loose their intense grip on the Jiva - by constantly acting on them. A human has the ability to volunteerily give up desires. The hold of these instincts, on humans, and on some few higher life-forms is weak. Again, I am fairly illiterate and cannot verify the above from any religious texts. I did read an excerpt that stated as above. Rgds , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > , satishvijayan <no_reply@> wrote: > > Thanks Satishji. > > but dont animals follow their instincts, which are programmed by nature. So how can they be attached to its actions, when they performs none? They merely follows their instict? > > with love, > Shantnu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 > > In our recent discussion about astrology, several Sadhaks said we should surrender to God. But animals are also surrendered to God- they eat, kill, procreate, as their nature(under control of God) orders them to. > > Thats why they are free of Karma. Krishna says " Give up all your Karma to me " . But animals do that already - after all, lion doesnt get bad karma for eating deer. > > So is the whole goal of Sadhna to become just like an animal? --------------------- HARE RAM, HARE KRISHAN Once again Thanks Sir Ji for posting a very nice question. Animals do not have anything to surrender, they are bound to perform certian actions eg Dog barking in the night, it is also the part of their destiny, which is fixed, hence there is no free will. But also their destiny is variable if you see from another angle as not all the animals remains into the same position some of them are promoted to better animals who has little mind and some of them go for the birth of mosquitos, and it is because of free will. HARE RAM, HARE RAM, RAM RAM, HARE HARE, HARE KRISHAN, HARE KRISHAN, KRISHAN KRISHAN, HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 > Animals do not have anything to surrender, they are bound to perform >certian actions eg Dog barking in the night, it is also the part of yes Jituji, thats the main point. Animals have no free will, so they cannot surrender- they are forced to do whatever their nature forces them to. But we humans have free will, & we can choose to follow the divine path, or continue doing what we are doing. Thats why our surrender is so valuable. Next question is: How do we know we are surrendering to God, & not our ego, or some demonic entity? After all, most of wars/murders have been fought in name of God? love, Shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 > Next question is: How do we know we are surrendering to God, & not our ego, or some demonic entity? After all, most of wars/murders have been fought in name of God? - HARE RAM, HARE KRISHAN VERY NICE QUESTION i allready once written in the topic of Ahinsa that karma like,if someone kill somebody while being with the God, is done than it is Ahinsa. also i had given example as stated by Shantanu Sir Ji that if someone is with the God like Arjuna killed so many with the Lord Sri Krishan. here in this example Lord was with Arjuna completely because Arjuna might had surrendered his karmas to Lord Sri Krishan since so many lives. But that does not mean if Lord Sri Krishan is not present physically in the world now than we can not be with the Lord Sri Krishan. We can always surrender our Karmas in every state. Surrendering to the Lord means you are remembering the name of the Lord WHILE BEING IN THE STATE OF YOGA at the time of doing the Karma. surrendering to ego means you can not remember the name of the Lord IN THE STATE OF YOGA at the time of doing the karma. BEING IN THE STATE OF YOGA means that your body, senses, intellect,ego and consciousness are united with the God.but this state of Yoga is also called the state of Sakshi Bhav. If you are in sakshi Bhav than it means EGO HAS ALSO BEEN SURERNDERED TO THE GOD But in the begining itself karma like killing someone even for the right issue can not be surrendered to the God. in the begining,when you would worship for the Lord, may be for years you are doing the karma but nothing is surrendered it is sure that you are becoming elegible to surrender the karmas. than you would concentrate for a while that you are with the God COMPLETELY(ie YOUR EGO IS ALSO WITH THE GOD) that too for 10 seconds in one hour ,........... and you may not knowing that when you were with the God than start incresing time ..... one state would come when you would be continously for an hour with the God.....but it takes years many years.... HARE RAM, HARE RAM, RAM RAM, HARE HARE, HARE KRISHAN, HARE KRISHAN, KRISHAN KRISHAN, HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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