How to know that we are the Atman ?

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

I am tracing my steps back as I have had a fundamental doubt.

 

Our scriptures, esp Gita, say that the Self or Atman is the He or the

Individual , rather than his body and faculties.

 

Now, to my questions

 

1. How do we indeed come to a rational understanding/conclusion that

the owner of the body , mind and intellect is indeed the Self ?

 

2. How one would know that there indeed is a higher purpose in life

other than the mundane ?

 

Is there any textual explanation or should answers to these questions

be found by oneself by meditating on them ?

 

Venkat

[Guest guest]

Dear Venkatji,

 

Yours is a genuine doubt of an honest seeker indeed! My understanding

lies in the answer suggested by you at the end, that is, to be

'found'/experienced by/in meditation only and can not be sought by

mind and intellect, it is beyond mind and intellect that is incapable

of reaching/accessing the self by its very limitations. I think our

scriptures support such a view too:

 

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyo na meedhayaa na bahudaa shruteena /

ya mee vaisha vraNute teenalabhyas tasaisha aatmaa vivraNutee tanuum

swaam // ( Katha Upanishad 1.2.23 ).

 

This self can not be obtained by instruction, nor by intellectual

power, nor even through much hearing. He is to be obtained only by the

one whom the ( self ) chooses. To such a one the self reveals his own

nature.

 

It is His Grace through exclusive and intensive seeking by the seeker

that fetches the self!

 

Another Upanishadic statement: yato vaacho nivartante aprapya manasaa

saha / aanandam brahmano vidvan na bibheti kadachana // From Him come

back baffled both words and mind. But he who realizes the joy of

Brahma is free from fear.

 

Further, it is always being that Reality rather than becoming/knowing

through efforts is emphasized: sayohavaitat paramam brahmaveda

brahmaiva bhavati ( Manduka Upanishad 3.2.9 )/ He, verily, who knows

the Supreme Brahman becomes Brahman himself.

 

Knowledge, efforts and practices are to keep the body-mind-intellect

complex clean and subtle to make ourselves ready to receive the Grace

when the Grace chooses!! Intensity of seeking, surrender, devotion

matters most.

 

Regards,

 

M.S.Thimmappa

[Guest guest]

Namaste Thimmappa ji

Thanks for that illuminating piece. I think the choice of my question

may have been like this.

 

Why do we (need to) think that we are not the body ? Not the senses,

mind , and intellect ?

 

There was one explanation- the senses know the body , but the body

does not know the senses. Similarly the mind knows the senses and the

senses do not know the mind . The intellect knows the mind and the

mind knows it not.

 

Since we say , it is my body, my mind and my intellect, the 'my' needs

probing and that is how, the 'I' was reached.

 

Again, something tells me, (at least I felt so during a Saadhnaa) that

this argument is inconclusive. I am not able to say how.

 

Venkat

[Guest guest]

Sorry for jumping into mid-conversation to share my small feelings..... :-)

 

We do need to really think that 'we are not the body' ..... that is in order to

know 'the body' better. Its subtleties, its functionalities, its strengths and

weaknesses.

We do need to really think that 'we are not the senses' .... that is in order to

perceive 'the senses' better. Its tendencies, its responsivesness, both its

sensitivities and dullness.

We do need to really think that 'we are not the intellect' .... that is in order

to understand 'the intellect' better. Its perceptiveness, its cognitivity, its

maturity as well as its trivality.

 

Mind anyway is nothing but a collection of responses from Body & Senses through

the filter of the Intellect.

 

Our consciousness is toooo much attached to them.......just as we cannot see a

clearer reflection by keeping a mirror too close to the

face......similarly......in order to UNDERSTAND better, we need to " increase the

gap " .

 

Eventually as the Understanding gets deeper, the " true nature of the self "

gradually reveals.

 

From a diametrically opposite perspective we could also say that, We Need to

Really Think that We are the Body, Senses & Intellect.....and try to understand

them till their FINEST SUBTLETIES. As we keep reaching nearer to its

Core..... " the true nature of the self " gradually reveals.

 

Thus, the Statement could be put in both ways..........We Need to Really

Think That We ARE NOT..... OR.......We Need to REALLY Think That We ARE. Both

take us to the 'Same destination'.

 

Regards,

Anupam