Puranas

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> The stories you speak of in the Puranas- well Puranas were written for

> simple folk, not Yogis.

>

> with love

> Shantnu

>

 

On this subject i really need the feedback of our learned sadhakas.

 

few months back i posed the same question to our Aumji and answer was

same from him " puranas were for simple folks and not for yogis "

 

tales from puranas are not easy to understand and it is said that the

stories are true but have some hidden and esoteric meaning. That is

because it was very difficult to make common folks understand about

the " Advait Brahm " . Since the stories are difficult therefore some may

outrightly reject them. It is also not easy to digest that in a country

of geeta and highly cultured sanatan dharma, these tales were told as

gossips.

 

How to corelate the shiva-shakti concept we discuss here with the shiva

purana.?

how can we reject the stories in puranas when we have evidences related

to these " tales " at some places in this country only?

 

one of our active member also holds the view that even ramayana and

mahabharata can be just beliefs until we learn to live with them.

 

i am not going to detail about the confusions arise due to these

stories but i hope i have put my doubts clearly. please throw some

light to remove these doubts as this is directly concerned with our

hearts.

 

so hum...

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

That is a very deep question to answer.

According to my understanding, we must make a distiction between puranas like

Matsya Purnam, Markandeya Puranam etc and Idhihas like Ramayan and Mahabharat.

The first belong to a category which are allegorical stories, conveying certain

deeper esoteric meaning, for the learned, while serving the purpose of god-fear,

piety and devotion for common-folks. Further, they were written by great souls

and sages and their chanting does a world of good with wonderful vibration in

the minds of the pious souls chanting them. In our yoga centre, besides learning

and practising yoga, our teacher has made an arrangment for chanting various

holy texts. I used to make it a point to attend the chanting of Devi

Mahatmyam. Every time, we chant the Durga Saptasathi, the effect is simply

scintilating. One would feel elevated simply by chanting these mantras, if not

for any other reason.

On the other hand, the twin idhihas of the Hindus- Ramayan and Mahabharat- have

to be treated on a different footing. The basis of the story is not imaginary,

although it is now fashionable to discount the historicity of the them. Lest I

am mistaken for raking up political issues, I can say with all the authority and

faith under my command that both these idhihas are based on real life histories.

Swami Satyananda spoke extensively about the facts behind Ram Sethu, in his

address at Rikhia on the culmination of the Rajshooya yagna, that he performed

in 2007. Kanchi Paramacharya during his life time argued forcefully as to how

our folklore tradition is more authentic than modern history. I am not a

learned person. I have not read Ramayan in orginal. I have visited Rameshwaram

on sevaral occasions. There is a place called Thirupullanai, near

Ramanathanpuram. This place is remembered as the place where Ram is said to have

rested on the heap of dharba-grass

(pullu in Tamil means grass- Anai means pillow-Hence the place name 'Thiru Pull

Anai), overcome by grief over the loss of Sita. From there, if you travel down

to the sea-shore, you will come to a place called 'Sethu Karai'. One can easily

spot a white line of submerged structure under the water. A boat man will take

you to that site in the sea and he will climb down into the 'sethu' structure

and will even fetch a piece of stone also, if you want one, for a price. It

requires no elaborate reasoning to convice you that it was a submerged sethu.Â

The point I drive home is that Idhihas are by and large based on folklores and

the folklores are never concocted stories. May be there could be certain

accretion and distortion in details here and there; but they cannot be brushed

aside as imaginary. The spiritual value of these texts cannot be undermined

while emphasising the historicity of them. Through these stories, our religion

sought to teach us dharma. No literature in the world would have promoted the

moral values of its people as Ramayana has down for the Hindus. Even the

illiterate mass of India are strong in their moral fibre, only because of

Ramayana and Mahabharata. Credit goes to Rishis Valmiki and Ved Vyas for having

imparted the Vedanta knowledge to the common man in the back-drop of these

historical stories.

I am conscious of the view of some eminent spiritual teachers in this part of

the country, like Ramalinga Swami of Vadalur (Vallalar) who was intially a great

devotee of Lord Siva but later on preached that all the gods including Siva, are

only allegorical and symbols. Therefore, he urged his followers to worship

'jyoti'. In fact, it is said that he merged with the jyoti after bolting

himself inside a room. In that context, he said all the stories like Ramayan and

Mahabharat are fictitious and they were told only to spread moral values. I beg

to discount his theory at least insofar it relates to the historicity of the two

Idhihas.

I stand corrected, for I am not as learned as many of our friends here.

Hari Om TatSat

ulaganathan p

 

 

 

so hum <jigyaasuu

 

On this subject i really need the feedback of our learned sadhakas.

 

few months back i posed the same question to our Aumji and answer was

[Guest guest]

OM NAMO NARAYANAYA

..Thiru  Ulaganathan , My father told me a MNEMONIC when I was very young

 

MA -dwayam (two beginning with the letter MA -Mathsya,Markandeya)

BHA -dwayam(2) (Bharat ,Bhagavat )

BRA -triam (3) Brahma,Brahmanda, Bhrahmavaivartya

VA --chatustayam(4) Vishnu,Vamana,Vayu,Varaha

A---Agni, NA -Narada,PA -Padma , Lin --Linga  Ga --Garuda,Ku -- Kurma,Ska-- 

Skanda ,

" Ma dwayam Bha dwayam chaiva Bhra  triam  Va  chatustayam  A NA PA LIN  GA KU 

SKA  NI  puranani pruthak pruthak "   is the MNEMONIC 

Srimadramayan is the ITIHAS (History)

All the  18 Puranas were rhapsodised by Ved Vyas

Others were by by Suta.  

Can I be helped as to how many are Puranas,how many Upapuranas etc ? 

ijswamy

 

 

~SWAMY

http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/

 

--- On Thu, 7/10/08, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

 

ulaganathan p <apunathan

Re: Puranas

 

Thursday, July 10, 2008, 7:42 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hari Om!

That is a very deep question to answer.

According to my understanding, we must make a distiction between puranas like

Matsya Purnam, Markandeya Puranam etc and Idhihas like Ramayan and Mahabharat.

The first belong to a category which are

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Discussion on(1) Self-'torturing' " Hatha " Yogis,(2) Puranas/Mythology

and (3) Itihas/History by Aumji, Shantnuji, Sudhakarji, Swamiji,

Jitendraji, Ulaganathanji, Amit Aroraji, Prabhat Guptaji, and others

is illuminating. I may add a bit further to support the clarification

already offered by all of them.

 

1.Self/body torturing yogis - piercing big needles across the nose,

standing on one leg for any length of time and so on - do not reflect

advance spiritual development or even siddhis. Even a bit of such

things are there in them, it is certainly not meant for such

exhibition as they are doing.It has brought disgrace to 'Hinduism' in

the eyes of the foreigner prompting such blatantly prejudiced

observation as may be found in the works of Macaulay, Kipling, Mayo,

and Mills in the earlier part of the last century. However, things

have changed,they have better image of us thanks to the work of

Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, Swami Prabhupada, Swami Rama, Sri Sri

Ravishankar, Amma ( Mata Amritanadamayi ) and others in the West in

the last sixty years, no cause for worry on that count!

 

2.Puranas, especially Bhagavata, is pregnant with great

insights/truth, only, if we know how to 'read' it! It can not be read

as history, the distinction between puranas and itihas is brought out

well by Ulaganathanji. A teacher used to tell me that it has to be

heard/chanted/listened with a blank state of mind without any critical

and evaluative frame, it is not meant for intellectual cogitations.

(God Play/Leela can not be fathomed by our tiny intellect , allow Him

to reveal it to us!). If we 'read' in that 'blank' state of mind,

Bhagavata 'paints' itself on our mind as if it is a canvas and a

brilliant illumination is possible with it.It should be listened with

utter humility, silence, as King Parikshit did: the folly he

committed, he accepted and surrendered himself to the effect of his

action and turned the whole affair into pathway to Liberation.

 

3.Itihas, Ramayan, is real event, as most modern carbon dating system

has now proved. Only, misrepresentation and misinterpretation has

caused some problem. Notions such as it is poetry(kavya)/imagination

or it is the tale of God/avatar - both are off the mark! It is not

poetry in the sense of Western concept of poetry where it is

fictitious, imaginative creation. For us kaavya is something of a

reality personified. In fact, Mundaka Upanishad defines Kavya :

tadetat satyam-mantreshu karmaani kavayo yanya pashyanstani tretaayaam

bahudaa santataani/ tanyaacharatam niyatam satyakaamaa yeshavah

sukrutasya loke//Poet is the one who draws the real meaning hidden in

sacred sounds/words(mantra) and reaches it to multitude of common

people/ practiced with discipline routinely enters into desired world

of good.Ramayana is a story of a Person who demonstrated the vedic way

of living in mundane world with all its adversaries. Sage Valmiki

illustrated it. Many critics of Ramayana points out that it does not

behold of a God or even a great human being by quoting the instances

of Sita Parityaga/abandoning Sita, Agni Pravesh/fire ordeal and Vali

Vadha/killing King Vali by deceit, is a total misinterpretation

including wrong translation of original. Considering the consequences

for her, him and the people, Rama had given full option to Sita, it is

Sita who said that she choose to come clean by ordeal. Even in Vali

incidence Rama was caught unaware and triggered the arrow and he

accepted it as a mistake and opines that perhaps vidhi/fate/Time/kala

has willed it through him for a greater purpose of Creation. Rama was

a greatest human being, period! It was made possible by the time he

lived-tretayuga. Ramayana has been 'read' with multiple meaning, PVN

Murthy has demonstrated by visiting the places visited by Rama,

including SriLanka that a great secret of astronomy and the movement

along equinox is hidden there that is likely to be misused if known by

less evolved people! TN Shivakumar illustrates how each character and

situations taken by its literal meanings from grammar depicts the

mental activities of individuals within, a saga from the disturbed to

the sublime with all the supportive and disruptive forces playing around .

 

We are proud of such Intellectual and Cultural Heritage.

 

M.S.Thimmappa

 

 

 

 

 

 

, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

>

> Hari Om!

> That is a very deep question to answer.

> According to my understanding, we must make a distiction between

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

 

I had attended Shiv Maha Purana Katha shivir couple of years back

and I have heard one story over there which shows one of the significance of

this Purana.

 

There was a bad guy or asura who lives in a village and used to kill

people, rob them, eat them and do other bad stuff. All villagers were very

distressed

with this. One day another asura was passing through the same village and he

fought

with that bad guy who used to kill villagers. After the fight that bad guy was

killed and the new ausra tried to eat him but not able to as his blood was so

ugly, so he just shattered his bones in anger and passed away from that

village. Now the villagers became very happy.

 

The soul of that bad guy was suffering from different yaatnas in

Naraka and suddenly Shiva Ganas came to Yama and asked for the same soul from

him. Yama was very surprised that this guy has not done any single good thing

in his entire life and how come Shiv ganas are here to take him to the Shiva

Loka. Then after Yama¢s request shiva Ganas has explained that after his death

one crow took one of the bone piece in his beak and

flew away.Suddenly while flying one of his bone had

fallen on the stone where few years back someone dictated the Shiva Purana at

the same place. So because of this effect his soul should be free from Narak

and should be shifted to shiva lokas.

 

Now you can imagine the person who will read this Maha Purana or

listen to this will guaranteed get Moksha which is for me to stay with Lord

Shiva for ever and there is no birth re-birth cycle.

 

 

May lord bless you all.

 

 

Regards,

 

Amit Arora

www.aboutshiva.com

[Guest guest]

, " so hum " <jigyaasuu wrote:

 

> On this subject i really need the feedback of our learned sadhakas.

>

> few months back i posed the same question to our Aumji and answer >was

> same from him " puranas were for simple folks and not for yogis "

>

 

Sohumji, this is a complex issue, which cannot be answered simply.

 

For one, the symbology of the Puranas is totally diffrent from the

Vedas: Like in the Vedas, Indra represents the Divine Mind, while in

the Puranas he has just become a God of rain. The Vedic Agni was the

flame of awareness, not chemical fire.

 

In the Vedas, there was just 1 God who creates, nurtures & then

destroys the world. The Puranas divided this into 3, & had them

fighting with each other. Most of this Shaiv vs Vaishav is due to the

Puranans.

 

The Puranas had their own symbology, but most people dont know it &

take everything literally. Also, the Puranas are blame for ideas like

all one has to do is listen to some Purana, & one will automaticaly

get Moksha.

 

One story over which we had a big debate some time ago was the one in

which an evil man, before dying, calls our his son Vishnu! At this the

real Vishnu sends his carriage for him, & the man gets moksha even

though he never did any Sadhna.

 

Such stories are ok for simple people, who didnt anything about Vedas,

Gita etc. But many " scholars " try to contradict the Gita based on some

Puranic story.

 

Like for example, this self torture debate, which we have had before.

Someone gave the Sholka of Gita that says torturing the body is

torturing the God who lives in it. To this, someone argued of the

story of Dhruva(from some Purana) who starved himself by only eating

leaves, & this made God so happy he made him into a star.

 

Im sure there is a hidden meaning behind this story. But it seems all

one has to get Moksha is not eat anything. And finally, the Gita is

much higher than any Purana, & anything in the Puranas that

contradicts the Gitas is wrong.

 

Most people find this hard to accept, but our Rishis have said so

themselves: In any contradiction between scriptures, the Vedas & Gitas

truth is considered final.

 

Another thing about the Puranas is- how petty the Gods are shown to

be. They go around seducing women, interfering with human lives,

taking offence on little issues etc. Again there are hidden meanings,

but people take these things literally.

 

Aumji wrote that most people believe Shiv Linga is Shivs penis. This

story comes from the Puranas, which is what most people read.

 

The Puranas took the mystery of the Vedas, which were written in

deeply symbolic language, & reduced them to simple stories which

entertain people. There is nothing wrong with this, but no Yogi should

quote the Puranas till he knows their hidden symbology. And he should

certainly never compare it to the Gita or Vedas.

 

love

Shantnu