Evil in the world

[Guest guest]

Namaste!

 

Fellow Sadhaks, I have a question.

 

There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must exist?

What do you think?

 

with love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

 

> There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

> proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must exist?

> What do you think?

 

 

As per my thoughts, there is no evil in the world, what we perceive as

evil is a reaction of mind to a man, or a situation. It is the mind

which is creator of evil and good.

 

When mother kali manifests as universe her all energies have

corresponding reactionary energies.... hence apparently positive

energies cause apparent negative energies.

 

A battery has two terminals one is positive which receives electrons

and the other is Negative which emits electrons... and both are

necessary for the flow of electricity...now we cant say Positive

terminal is good and negative terminal is evil.

 

For a true Tantrik... the only thing evil would be the one, which is

keeping him away from divinity.

 

love

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

> > There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

> > proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must

 

good or evils are the products of our mind. only human mind

categorise any situation or process or individual as good or bad.

it also depends what plane of existence we are talking of. at material

level certainly there is good and bad, but from higher perspectives

there is just a single authority, no duality at all.

 

may be wrong but this is what i feel

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

> There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

> proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must exist?

> What do you think?

>

 

In a film a hero is assigned for playing the role of good

characteristics and villain is for evil . both are important for a

movie .

 

for the most advance Sadhaka everything is the proof of the God

 

for the most athiest person nothing is the God , everything is

happeing automatically or randomly or by chance .

 

athiest perosn may be good or may be sometimes bad.

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE RAM ,HARE

RAM, RAM RAM ,HARE HARE

>

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

> As per my thoughts, there is no evil in the world, what we perceive

 

Ok, replace word evil with misery, pain, sadness. Does that prove God

doesnt exist?

 

with love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

\

> > >

> Ok, replace word evil with misery, pain, sadness. Does that prove God

> doesnt exist?

>

 

 

 

I think Sir ji you re saying in htis way

 

sometimes we get pain even we have not done anything wrong in life ,

there is no fixed rule and we again conclude that everything is

happening randomly . Hence one say that the God does not Exists .

 

but other people are getting the bad result of bad karmas and good

results of the good karmas so they think that yes there is some

supereme power who is controlling all of us under certain laws.

 

till one experiences the oppositivity one can not prove that God

exists or does not Exists . one should realize the absolute and this

realization for the individual only ie one can not show something to

others that what is the God in reality

 

HARE KIRSHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE RAM ,HARE

RAM ,RAM RAM, HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

Dear shantnuji,

 

Very pertinent question as it is bugging every ones mind and varied

answers are perceived, two of which you have mentioned.

 

" Evil/Wickedness " is part of Creation, part of God. Its perception as

misery depends on what level of consciousness we are in. At a

different level/higher states of consciousness the same misery/evil

may appear as having rich meaning for self, self transformation, for

the good of self, others and the world and hence, considered as an

opportunity and feel grateful for it!Self/God - atma/paramatma - may

be a witness of both(good and evil) as a cosmic leela/play serving a

marvelous purpose of Creation. Titiksha/bearing and tolerating it

without being judgemental, by acceptance of that(misery!) too as His

gift, we may rise to that exalted consciousness.

 

Regards,

 

M.S.Thimmappa.

 

 

 

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

> There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

> proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must

exist?

[Guest guest]

If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

sufferings in the first place.

 

I dont believe in the lame excuse of " God Testing " as God is not an

examiner.

 

How could a mother see her child sufferings ??

 

 

ansuya

- In , " M.S.Thimmappa. " <thimmappams

wrote:

>

> Dear shantnuji,

>

> Very pertinent question as it is bugging every ones mind and varied

> answers are perceived, two of which you have mentioned.

 

> " Evil/Wickedness " is part of Creation, part of God. Its perception

as

[Guest guest]

WHO REALLY RULES THE WORLD? GOD OR SATAN?

 

>>If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanuji,

 

Namaste!

 

A very pertinent question which cannot be answered yes/no.

 

E.g. A few year old child just walking by the roadside is

crushed to death by a speeding vehicle. Everybody questions

what wrong did the child do to get such miserable death? We

only look from the ground level. Even you can rise up spiritually

your comments will be - everything is perfect and going according

to the KARMA. In fact there is no such thing as INJUSTICE. For

instance when Dhritrastra asked Lord Krishna why he was born

blind in both the eyes? Krishna replied, you have capacity to

meditate and travel back in past, therefore meditate and see what

you have done. At this Dhritrastra said i have gone back in time

to ten births and all of them i have done only PUNYA KARMA only.

Krishna replies, No, No, go hundred births behind and he goes and

finds that as a boy he had caught hold of an insect and pierced its

both the eyes with the thorns and the result of that karma is

experienced after 100 births (not necessary in that order, because

karmically how the account is to be settled is decided before

taking the birth). Therefore true Saints who come from the pure

spiritual region remind us that - war, famine, floods, etc., have

been taking place and will continue to take place therefore please

meditate and devote your time to escape from these miseries but

Maya is so strong and your own inadequacy in doing your regular

meditation keeps you bound in this cycle of birth and death.

Maximum from a third class prisoner your may become first class

but you are still a prisoner, maybe instead of iron you are tied in

gold but still a prisoner, therefore take time to devote 1/10 of

the 24 hours i.e. approximately 2.1/2 hours devoted to meditation.

But you may say you have no time then you have no right to claim

Moksha as well.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Namaste!

>

> Fellow Sadhaks, I have a question.

>

> There is so much evil, wickedness in the world. Some people say this

> proves God does not exist, but I think it proves that God must

exist?

> What do you think?

>

> with love

> Shantnu

>

[Guest guest]

Shantnuji and all devoted sadhaks ,

Evil exists because God Himself allowed us to be overwhelmed by Maya. Under

the influence of Maya we start feeling illusion as reality. Wealth is real ,

power is real, position is real, race is real etc.God allows us to live in our

own world detached from Him . Such illusory world is the basis of evil the evil

,the evil d evil,devil.

" Rabbit comes out of hat " is real to spectators but the magician knows how

rabbit can not come out of a hat.

God created Maya to allow us to enjoy the material world. But we go very far

and end up thinking Maya is real.

This we do till disease, old age , natural calamities teach us the limit of

our capabilities.Then we turn to God .

After our " prarabdha karma " is enjoyed or suffered we start realizing the

existence of God.

OM NAMO NARAYANAYA

ijswamy

 

shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

Namaste!

 

Fellow Sadhaks, I have a question.

[Guest guest]

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

> If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

> sufferings in the first place.

> I dont believe in the lame excuse of " God Testing " as God is not an

> examiner.

 

Anusuyaji, this is a very good point. If God is Sat Chit Anand, beyond

the manifest universe, always existing in bliss, why would He care

about testing us, & giving us grades like a school teacher?

 

Surely God has a higher plan than that?

 

with love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Dear Anusuyaji,

 

Pain and suffering do not imply God is not kind and just. I was

feeling miserable and in all pain for months together when my father

insisted me to go to school first time and yet my father was kind and

just, but for him I would not be what I am with such success and

fame! There is no question of my father 'testing me', it is all his

love for me only.

 

When we have deviated or violated the Order/Law of His that run and

nurture all beings, we suffer; eventually we are made to fall in line

with It, the time frame depends on how much of debris, violations,

harmful deeds we have committed in this and previous lives. We must

learn from sufferings and move fast to align with the Order.

 

Regards,

 

M.S.Thimmappa

 

, ansuya80 <no_reply wrote:

>

> If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

> sufferings in the first place.

[Guest guest]

There is a tolerance limit for Satanic rule.

Some times Satan is not a single individual, rather a large growing group

which pollute and corrupt the 'like minded people.

You can take enalogy from the Science of Thermodynamics which takes about a

concept called 'Entropy'.

It starts from system of Order and ends with total disorder.

Everyday in the World we see triumph of ever growing Evil, immoral and amoral

cruelty and brabarism, injustice, self centerism, devilish etc.

Victims are innocence, morality, character, nonviolence, equality,

spiritualism, divinity an all similar ones.

 

Every thing is Time bound including Gods. 'Brahman' is one thing which is

beyond time.

 

Satanic rule or environment will grow continuously and it has to because the

World we live in or the Earth we live on is also time bound .Millions of Earths

and Sun came and gone.

So Statanic rule is similar to growing disorder system.

Satan is tool to end this World.

Satan can be defined in somany ways. Individuals like Osama, Neo Nazi Pope

Benedict, contributors of pollution, illegal sex, immoral and amoral practising

people, back stabbers, etc. Different people contribute to the Satanic rule in

diferent proportions.

This is my perception.

 

Hare Krishna!

 

 

 

 

 

" mohammed. A. Davies " <ma_davies44 wrote:

WHO REALLY RULES THE WORLD? GOD OR SATAN?

 

>>If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

 

Kindly advise me whether when we see misery around, it is proper for us only to

meditate instead of rendering all possible help within our command. How do you

react to the accusation of person from other faiths, like Christianity, that we

are more prone to be selfish and self-engrossed, when the suffering humanity

requires physical acts of amelioration.

 

Hari Om tat sat.

 

ulaganathan p

 

spbyoga9 <spbyoga9 wrote: --- In

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Shantanuji,

 

Namaste!

 

A very pertinent question which cannot be answered yes/no.

 

E.g. A few year old child just walking by the roadside is

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

 

I think Satan is within us as in the Universe, in the same manner the divine is

within us and in the universe. We are a bundle of both the good and the bad

within us and through our sadhana and satsang, we seek to vanquish the Satan

within us. Satan is nothing but the deviant mind, which tries to tempt us to the

sensual pleasures and keep us bound to it. Our endeavour is to go beyond the

clutches of senses and pierce through various koshas to realise the Soul within

embedded deep within the five koshas. A strenuous sadhana and the grace of

God/Guru alone can give us the strength to pierce these veils before the

divine within is present before us.

 

Merger with the divine within is sweeter by the presence of the evil within us

because of the struggle that it offers. The Sadhana itself is a struggle and it

is worth it, even we do not attain the goal of enlightenment. The suffering and

the pain is a kind of sadhanana and help us to work out karma. Indeed, it is

through the suffering, God gives us an opportunity to expedite our working out

of karma. Kanchi Paramachary said that we have to put up with our diseases

without rushing to medicines etc to alleviate the suffering, for the suffering

that we undergo is a blessing in disguise and it is equivalent to the arduous

sadhana of rishis of yore. That answers the question whether the evil is also a

gift of God.

 

Hari Om tat sat.

 

ulaganathan p

 

" mohammed. A. Davies " <ma_davies44 wrote:

WHO REALLY RULES THE WORLD? GOD OR SATAN?

 

>>If God is all loving, Kind and just, why he created the pains and

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food. Get all this and more on Best of

Groups.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The problem of evil is one that has taxed human thought and has

evolved various confusing and conflicting solutions. To the

rationalists, the problem does not exist. for him everything is in

nature as the result of evolution. For him nature is blind and

unitelligent and there has no conception of good or evil.

 

The unwillingness of the devout soul to admit that evil can have

its existence in God, led to Abrahmic beliefs i.e. God as principle

of good and Satan as the Principle of evil.

 

But this imperfect solution solved nothing for it does not

explain why there have been a possibility for evil at all. This

theory limits the powers of God; as Satan works against God's good

intentions. Such god can not be omnipotent if satan works against

him and wins too.

 

For a yogi also the problem does not exist as a yogi sees god in

all things and in all events. He sees god in floods, earthquakes

and tsunamis too; no only in joys and comforts. But this thing can

not be learnt, taught or read. This has to be a subjective

experience.

 

But stil for a yogi too, the problem of pain remains. Still a

yogi sees pain as a reaction of lower self, refusing to change

towards higher self. For a yogi pain, too is necessary as is yoga

or sadhna.

 

Pain is a possibility which has to be exhausted and man has been

selected as instrument by Mother Nature to feel the pain and

transcend it; which animals can not.

 

Another question still remains; that is if pain is Real or a

shadow of another truth ?

 

The vedantins take the true nature of Soul as bliss and the

absence of that ananda is called pain; which mind sees in physical

defficienceis and reactions.

 

A true yogi thus enjoys the pains and joys with equal enthusiasm and

takes both as stepping stones towards perfection

 

(thanks to Shri Aurobindo)

 

AUM

[Guest guest]

, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

 

Dear Ulaganathanji,

 

Namaste!

 

It does not mean we should not help - it only means the help you

render and the result you get or do not get is not your worry.

Just do it (help) and move on but in many cases what happens is

 

YOU ARE NOT RICH AND TRYING TO HELP A POOR IS IN BAD TASTE

YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED AND TRYING TO TEACH AN IGNORANT PERSON IS WRONG

YOU ARE NOT STRONG AND TRYING TO HELP WEAK IS AGAIN WRONG

YOU DO NOT KNOW HEAD OR TAIL OF A MANTRA AND YOU DO MANTRA DIKSHA

IS ALSO WRONG.

ALL SUCH THINGS ARE WRONG AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN NOT TO HELP.

 

I know, I know, I know - many people do not help stating it is

their karma let him/her suffer and go through it why should i help.

Some wondering monks also do not help a person who maybe trapped

in a well or any such problem thinking it is their karma.

 

This is totally wrong. You can and you should help if you can and

about RESULTS leave it to the lord.

 

Ofcourse more prudent would be to do your own meditation and acquire

some light and then if you do not help the air touching you and

moving forward will help multitude of people. By your mere presence,

many will be helped. I think that would be a good ideal goal to work

for.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hari Om!

>

>

> Kindly advise me whether when we see misery around, it is proper

for us only to meditate instead of rendering all possible help within

our command. How do you react to the accusation of person from other

faiths, like Christianity, that we are more prone to be selfish and

self-engrossed, when the suffering humanity requires physical acts

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

Thanks to all for great Discussion

 

AUM Sir Ji , Thanks for No evil . Ramayana is also God

 

 

Pain is a possibility which has to be exhausted and man has been

> selected as instrument by Mother Nature to feel the pain and

> transcend it; which animals can not.

 

Question from above statement ;

 

what is the purpose of this pain . or why pain came into picture.

when we know that God live in aanand .

>

 

 

> Another question still remains; that is if pain is Real or a

> shadow of another truth ?

 

for the above Question asked by you , i would like to say that

definetely the pain is the shadow of the truth . in fact shadow is

made because of the incidence of the light on any object. and that

light is happiness and shadow is pain truth is any object .

 

 

>

> The vedantins take the true nature of Soul as bliss and the

> absence of that ananda is called pain; which mind sees in physical

> defficienceis and reactions.

>

 

Here Sir Ji absence of the aanand is pain . is it true or it should

be like absense of anand means presence of pain and happiness both .

please comment on it Sir Ji

 

once again thanks Sir Ji

 

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM ,RAM RAM ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja

wrote:

 

Dear Jitinderji,

 

---------------------------

> what is the purpose of this pain . or why pain came into picture.

> when we know that God live in aanand .

> >

>

 

Surprisingly the pain is not ours but that of Mother shakti.

When shakti separates (apparently) from shiva she loses the bliss of

shiva... which she feels as pain. A reflection of that Viraha is

seen as pain by our mind

>

--

> > Another question still remains; that is if pain is Real or a

> > shadow of another truth ?

>

> for the above Question asked by you , i would like to say that

> definetely the pain is the shadow of the truth . in fact shadow is

> made because of the incidence of the light on any object. and that

> light is happiness and shadow is pain truth is any object .

>

Thanks jeetu your answer is very logical and true.

---

 

> > The vedantins take the true nature of Soul as bliss and the

> > absence of that ananda is called pain; which mind sees in

physical

> > defficienceis and reactions.

> >

>

> Here Sir Ji absence of the aanand is pain . is it true or it

should

> be like absense of anand means presence of pain and happiness

both .

> please comment on it Sir Ji

>

> once again thanks Sir Ji

 

 

Bliss itself separates as joy and pain when shakti separates from

shiva.... together they make Bliss.

 

the bliss of Shiva is not mere joy or happiness felt by us.... it is

in fact a universal set of all pains and joys together...that z why

pain is not perceived by God for him everything is bliss

 

 

 

Be blissful

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

 

> Surprisingly the pain is not ours but that of Mother shakti.

> When shakti separates (apparently) from shiva she loses the bliss of

> shiva... which she feels as pain. A reflection of that Viraha is

> seen as pain by our mind

> >

That is the confusion , which i wanted to ask Why Maan Shakti

seperates from Lord Shiva , when She was in bliss . There could be so

many reasons , but still this question is very basic on the other side

it is the most confusing question for me .

please enlighten something

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM ,RAM RAM ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja

wrote:

>

 

> That is the confusion , which i wanted to ask Why Maan Shakti

> seperates from Lord Shiva , when She was in bliss . There could be

so

> many reasons , but still this question is very basic on the other

 

 

Dear jitinder ji

 

When the Turiya manifests the world with the wish " Eko Bahusyam "

shakti apparently separates and the turiya becomes

Ardhanarishwara.... because for manifestation of universe Two

entities are required Shakti and shiv.

 

The Sat and chit makes shakti and bliss remains in shiva.

shakti's separation from shiva and her continuous desire to go back

to source creates the first Nada of AUMMMM from which all mantras

are formed and then the universe is manifested.

 

All this leela is necessary to manifest the universe.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Dear sadhaks , The word satan is not given to any Deity.Hindu Puranas and Itihas

is replete with instances when good people are tested by evil powers only to

come out successful in the end.

Sita & nbsp; was abducted by Ravan. Ravan actually took orders from Lord Vishnu to

incarnate as evil person while serving as a sentry to Lord Vishnu.

Harischandra was forced to give his queen Chandramati as a part of the loan he

owed to sage Viswamitra.

So much so, evil is engineered by God Himself to purify the good and the

righteous.

In fact all of us think & nbsp; and accept & nbsp; " suffering is a virtue " .

Even natural disasters are man made.

Evil does not challenge God ,it submits to Him

AUM NAMONARAYANAYA

ijswamy

 

 

~SWAMY

http://gjnanaswarup.spaces.live.com/blog/

 

--- On Wed, 6/4/08, srinivas kolluri & lt;ksvas97 & gt; wrote:

 

 

 

There is a tolerance limit for Satanic rule.

[Guest guest]

> HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

 

> When the Turiya manifests the world with the wish " Eko Bahusyam "

> shakti apparently separates and the turiya becomes

> Ardhanarishwara

 

 

Thanks Sir Ji for the great and valuable knowledge ,

 

Hence Gayetri are the Shakti

or

what are your opinions for the Maan Gayetri with respect to Shakti .

could you please enlighten something

 

Because what i know Gayetri consists of 24 forms and out of these

24 forms there are 12 spiritual forms and 12 material forms

 

Spiritual forms of Maan Gayetri

 

1. Aadh Shakti Maan

2. Brahmhani Maan

3. Vaishnavi Maan

4. Shambhavi Maan

5. Ved Maata

6. Dev Mata

7. Viswa Mata

8. Ritambhara Maan

9. Mandakini Maan

10. Ajap Maan

11 RIdhi Maan

12. Sidhhi Maan

 

Material forms

 

1. Savitri Maan

2. Lakshmi Maan

3. Saraswati Maan

4. Parvati Maan

5. Mahamaya Maan

6. Kundalini Maan

7. Annapurna Maan

8. Bhawani Maan

9 . Bhuvneshwari Maan

10. Pranangani Maan

11. Payashwani Maan

12. Treyta Maan

 

OM BHURBHUVA SWAHA, TATSVITURVARENYAM , BHARGO DEVASHAYA DHIMAHI

DHIYO YO NA PRACHODAYAT

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM ,RAM RAM ,HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

ShanJi,

A tricky question well answered by yourself ShanJi

_______

" No longer is it worried about its petty problems, no longer it blames

some Satan or Karma. The wave realises its problems were because it

had broken away from its source. It now realises its oneness with the

ocean & all waves. "

___________

 

Pain, sarrow, sadness, evil all are a product of evolution, there is

nothing like satan or evil opposite to God!!! but its a process in

self analysis, overcoming those to self realise who we are.

 

These only proves God and not his/her inexistance.

 

A person is afraid of death in the begining and thinks some evil is

the cause for death, then if the person realises and overcomes these

product of evolution, says " death is not the end of the road " .

 

A person curses evil/karma if he losses a close relative or wealth,

but when he realises his mind calms down and will understand

 

" WHAT DID WE BRING INTO THIS WORLD WHEN WE WERE BORN AND WHAT ARE WE

GOING TO TAKE BACK WHEN WE LEAVE THIS WORLD? " ( A Poem by a tamil

poet).

 

Luv.